Smithsonian: How to Talk with Evangelicals about Evolution

[abu afak]

So, biologists, please explain how these cell components stayed formed and active with they were waiting to be assembled into the first cell. How did the digestion enzymes not eat their neighbors when they randomly jostled each other as they formed the first cell

I'm a math guy actually.
I don't have entertain your argument from Ignorance/Incredulity FALLACY.

Nor is your above premise valid.
They might have flown apart quadrillions of times before everything meshed in one of the infinite chances in infinite places, times, conditions.
Clearly, somewhere, some place, some time, (of the infinite amount of chances of MANY DIFFERENT KINDS OF LIFE that could have/or did emerge), the first life or it's proto-components formed.
Some silicon based (or Other) forms of life may be marveling at their luck/odds in another galaxy.

If you throw down 200 pick up sticks, then say "look at that! What are the odds of that exact arrangement!" they are infinitely small.... AFTER the fact/in retrospect.
But when you throw them down, SOME unique exact arrangement WILL happen EVERY Time.
Then you can illogically marvel at it.. as you do. "what were the odds of that exact arrangement?"
It didn't have to be exact.

`

 

[CrusaderFrank]

So, biologists, please explain how these cell components stayed formed and active with they were waiting to be assembled into the first cell. How did the digestion enzymes not eat their neighbors when they randomly jostled each other as they formed the first cell

I'm a math guy actually.
I don't have entertain your argument from Ignorance/Incredulity FALLACY.

Nor is your above premise valid.
They might have flown apart quadrillions of times before everything meshed in one of the infinite chances in infinite places, times, conditions.
Clearly, somewhere, some place, some time, (of the infinite amount of chances of MANY DIFFERENT KINDS OF LIFE that could have/or did emerge), the first life or it's proto-components formed.
Some silicon based (or Other) forms of life may be marveling at their luck/odds in another galaxy.

If you throw down 200 pick up sticks, then say "look at that! What are the odds of that exact arrangement!" they are infinitely small.... AFTER the fact/in retrospect.
But when you throw them down, SOME unique exact arrangement WILL happen EVERY Time.
Then you can illogically marvel at it.. as you do. "what were the odds of that exact arrangement?"
It didn't have to be exact.

`

You're a math guy who apparently never worked out a factorial.

Quadrillions sure sounds like an awful big big number until you realize that the odds or the part of a cell assembling randomly has THOUSANDS of zero in it.

I showed you the math

 

[abu afak]

You're a math guy who apparently never worked out a factorial.

Quadrillions sure sounds like an awful big big number until you realize that the odds or the part of a cell assembling randomly has THOUSANDS of zero in it.

I showed you the math

"Quadrillions" was just an example of a large number.... not a debate figure.
Not a debate figure because NO ONE KNOWS the infinite amount of chances for success in achieving ANY life ANYwhere in the diverse universe over 15 Billion years.
It's all very wild estimates.

YOU 12 IQ ASSHOLE.
ODDS take BOTH sides of the boat. Chances of success vs attempts at it.
You only provided ONE Side
Therefore you have NO "math."

ie (another example for you RETARD!)
It's like saying a man is poor because he's a billion in debt.
BUT if that man is Buffett or Bezos he is NOT poor.
Balance sheets, like Odds, are NECESSARILY TWO-sided to know the truth.
You presented a biased opinion of ONE.

`

 

[Hollie]

Why would I be jealous when it was a creationist who used microscopes and discovered the cells. They weren't all the same as thought. It showed further evidence for God. Isn't that what you're craving for? Well, here it is.

In 2016, these scientists started mapping the human cells -- There's a Map for That—Human Cell Atlas.

That article is pure BS.

It is a RELIGIOUS APOLOGETICS article from AnswersInGenesis. A PROSELYTIZATION/perversion of science.
(I got to "Psalms")
which has NOTHING to do with three scientists.

STOP PROSELYTIZING here.
Get the **** out of here!

There is NO GOD IN EVIDENCE and SCIENCE DEMANDS EVIDENCE.

You are a sick indoctrinated TROLL posting RELIGION in this section.
You need to be removed from the section
This is the Science Section, NOT religion.
OCD Insane.

`

No one wants you to convert to anything. Instead, we want to see you burn and suffer forever.

You prolly got knocked down a level if hell is in levels.

AIG is a creation science website; It's quite good and accurate. You got the religious atheist websites for evolution which are never right. They're just theories instead of having experiments or presenting their finding and scientific logical explanation.

For example, there is no life on Mars. That will be the finding and the creationists win again (evolution loses again).

How about when we discover coral, jellyfish and octopus on the water Moons in the outer solar system?

I sssume that when you use the term “we”, you man scientists and engineers, not wackadoodles from creation ministries. Religious extremists typically rail against science because they are terrified by it. The discovery of life elsewhere in the cosmos and even abiogenesis terrify them because eventual confirmation of the process of abiogenesis and/or discovery of life beyond earth is utterly devastating to the religious articles. Life and “creation” are very earthly concepts to Christianity and the discovery of life off of this planet would cause some creationers heads to explode. This is why we see the frantic claims from creationists that abiogenesis will never be confirmed and that “aliens” cannot exist.

The religious extremists demand that because not every answer to every question is known, it must be "the gawds did it" when we have no reason to believe the gawds did anything.

They may choose to remain ignorant and never explore beyond the bibles but that would require humanity never proceed beyond ancient fears and superstitions

It was hard to read between all the froth an spittle, and the little I managed to understand did NOT address my post - at all

My comment addressed your post. You didn’t know how to respond.

I gave you math and science, you responded like a Jihadists and, ironically, accused ME of being a religious extremists.

You evolutionists have canned responses and have yet to convince me that you understand how a cell functions

What math and science did you provide?

You religionists rattle on about math and science you don’t understand. Why not clear up any confusion about your gods and offer your “General Theory of Supernatural Creation”.

Within that document, you could lay out your theory and peer reviewed testing for how “the gawds did it”.

proving my point

I gave you math and science, you responded like a Jihadists and, ironically, accused ME of being a religious extremists.

You evolutionists have canned responses and have yet to convince me that you understand how a cell functions

You need to be honest with yourself and others. The ID'iot creationer "... the odds are too great" is not math and it's not science. It's the cut and paste nonsense that oozes from the creationer ministries.

If the odds against biological evolution are too great to have happened, provide some testable, verifiable evidence that your various gods are responsible. I'm simply going to hold you to the same standard that you hold the evilutionist, atheists to.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

You're a math guy who apparently never worked out a factorial.

Quadrillions sure sounds like an awful big big number until you realize that the odds or the part of a cell assembling randomly has THOUSANDS of zero in it.

I showed you the math

"Quadrillions" was just an example of a large number.... not a debate figure.
Not a debate figure because NO ONE KNOWS the infinite amount of chances for success in achieving ANY life ANYwhere in the diverse universe over 15 Billion years.
It's all very wild estimates.

YOU 12 IQ ASSHOLE.
ODDS take BOTH sides of the boat. Chances of success vs attempts at it.
You only provided ONE Side
Therefore you have NO "math."

ie (another example for you RETARD!)
It's like saying a man is poor because he's a billion in debt.
BUT if that man is Buffett or Bezos he is NOT poor.
Balance sheets, like Odds, are NECESSARILY TWO-sided to know the truth.
You presented a biased opinion of ONE.

`

Take a deep breath and don't reply until tomorrow.

First, as has been pointed out, the cell is very complex. The site I posted, which you didn't read states a "simple" cell is made of hundreds to thousands of organelles. I've been saying proteins to keep it simple. Each organelle is itself a complex structure with discreet functions.

For purposes of the mathematical exercise, we only dealt with the odds of the organelles randomly forming a cell. It would add several orders of magnitude to first include the odds of atoms and molecules randomly forming organelles. Agreed?

Secondly, the time frame is not 15 billion years. Had you bothered to read my posts before responding, i showed that there was only 700 million years from the formation of Earth to assumed appearance of the first cell; that's the time frame.

Take your time to read and understand those teo points before responding.

 

[abu afak]

...Secondly, the time frame is not 15 billion years. Had you bothered to read my posts before responding, i showed that there was only 700 million years from the formation of Earth to assumed appearance of the first cell; that's the time frame.

Take your time to read and understand those teo points before responding.

So you STILL, and Stupidly, CANNOT Tackle both sides of the ODDS calculation.
So you not only do not have impossible, near impossible, unlikely,.. or ANYTHING.

And I was talking about the Universe, not just earth.. obviously.
(and life could have formed elsewhere first, also obviously, like one of those asteroids I made an OP of, which contains the necessary ingredients.)
unless you want to take your 'god' out of the larger equation.
Of course we don't have your version of.. KWEATION.
Embarrassed huh.


`

 

[Wyatt earp]

Darwin didn't prove God does not exist. All he did was prove that all living things change and adapt over long, long, long, long, long periods of time.

To bad liberals never evolved .

 

[CrusaderFrank]

...Secondly, the time frame is not 15 billion years. Had you bothered to read my posts before responding, i showed that there was only 700 million years from the formation of Earth to assumed appearance of the first cell; that's the time frame.

Take your time to read and understand those teo points before responding.

So you STILL, and Stupidly, CANNOT Tackle both sides of the ODDS calculation.
So you not only do not have impossible, near impossible, unlikely,.. or ANYTHING.

And I was talking about the Universe, not just earth.. obviously.
(and life could have formed elsewhere first, also obviously, like one of those asteroids I made an OP of, which contains the necessary ingredients.)
unless you want to take your 'god' out of the larger equation.
Of course we don't have your version of.. KWEATION.
Embarrassed huh.


`

You didn't take the time to think it over

 

[james bond]

Asexual reproduction is not uncommon.

It's quite common, but sexual reproduction couldn't have just popped into existence by itself.

I never claimed you were trying to convert anyone. I wrote you were proselytizing. You’re a salesman. Instead of hawking used chevy’s, you’re hawking your version of the gods.

What do you think proselytizing means?

 

[Hollie]

Asexual reproduction is not uncommon.

It's quite common, but sexual reproduction couldn't have just popped into existence by itself.

I never claimed you were trying to convert anyone. I wrote you were proselytizing. You’re a salesman. Instead of hawking used chevy’s, you’re hawking your version of the gods.

What do you think proelytizing means?

"... sexual reproduction couldn't have popped into existence by itself''
You forgot to append ''because I say so''.

It's an odd dynamic with the hyper-religious. They insist their gods can pop into existence by themselves and then these gods can pop all of existence into creation... like magic, but biological organisms can't reproduce.

Why do you bring your hard-sell brand of proselytizing into a science forum?

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Even the components of the cell are complex and interconnected. Darwin thought the cell membrane was a simple sausage casing around a amorphous Glop of protoplasm with no distinguishing features.

Functions of Lipids, Proteins, & Lipopolysaccharides on Cell Membrane?

What are the Functions of Lipids, Proteins, and Lipopolysaccharides on the Cell Membrane?

The cell membrane is an important barrier that separates the internal environment of a cell from the external environment. It separates the internal cell environment from the extracellular matrix in multicellular animals.

While it's commonly referred to as a phospholipid bilayer structure, the cell membrane also consists of several other components including proteins and carbohydrate groups.

They all have to work together PERFECTLY for the cell to function.

It is physically and mathematically impossible for this to have come together randomly

 

[Hollie]

Even the components of the cell are complex and interconnected. Darwin thought the cell membrane was a simple sausage casing around a amorphous Glop of protoplasm with no distinguishing features.

Functions of Lipids, Proteins, & Lipopolysaccharides on Cell Membrane?

What are the Functions of Lipids, Proteins, and Lipopolysaccharides on the Cell Membrane?

The cell membrane is an important barrier that separates the internal environment of a cell from the external environment. It separates the internal cell environment from the extracellular matrix in multicellular animals.

While it's commonly referred to as a phospholipid bilayer structure, the cell membrane also consists of several other components including proteins and carbohydrate groups.

They all have to work together PERFECTLY for the cell to function.

It is physically and mathematically impossible for this to have come together randomly

"It is physically and mathematically impossible for this to have come together randomly"

Appended to add, "because I said so".

 

[Hollie]

Even the components of the cell are complex and interconnected. Darwin thought the cell membrane was a simple sausage casing around a amorphous Glop of protoplasm with no distinguishing features.

Functions of Lipids, Proteins, & Lipopolysaccharides on Cell Membrane?

What are the Functions of Lipids, Proteins, and Lipopolysaccharides on the Cell Membrane?

The cell membrane is an important barrier that separates the internal environment of a cell from the external environment. It separates the internal cell environment from the extracellular matrix in multicellular animals.

While it's commonly referred to as a phospholipid bilayer structure, the cell membrane also consists of several other components including proteins and carbohydrate groups.

They all have to work together PERFECTLY for the cell to function.

It is physically and mathematically impossible for this to have come together randomly

"Darwin thought the cell membrane was a simple sausage casing around a amorphous Glop"

You just made up that nonsense claim, right?

 

[ding]

...drives atheists crazy

 

[ding]

There is nothing random about the micro machines of life nor does it lend itself to slight variations or natural selection.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Even the components of the cell are complex and interconnected. Darwin thought the cell membrane was a simple sausage casing around a amorphous Glop of protoplasm with no distinguishing features.

Functions of Lipids, Proteins, & Lipopolysaccharides on Cell Membrane?

What are the Functions of Lipids, Proteins, and Lipopolysaccharides on the Cell Membrane?

The cell membrane is an important barrier that separates the internal environment of a cell from the external environment. It separates the internal cell environment from the extracellular matrix in multicellular animals.

While it's commonly referred to as a phospholipid bilayer structure, the cell membrane also consists of several other components including proteins and carbohydrate groups.

They all have to work together PERFECTLY for the cell to function.

It is physically and mathematically impossible for this to have come together randomly

"It is physically and mathematically impossible for this to have come together randomly"

Appended to add, "because I said so".

Because the math says so.

abu afak is STILL stuck on Darwin's primitive idea that a cell is sausage packing encasing an amorphous blob of protoplasm. Nothing could be further from the Truth! Each of the hundreds and thousands of organelles that make up a single cell are themselves complicated and intricate.

The idea that inorganic molecules and atoms collided and made perfectly functioning organelles which in turn randomly assembled into a working cell is laughable

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Even the components of the cell are complex and interconnected. Darwin thought the cell membrane was a simple sausage casing around a amorphous Glop of protoplasm with no distinguishing features.

Functions of Lipids, Proteins, & Lipopolysaccharides on Cell Membrane?

What are the Functions of Lipids, Proteins, and Lipopolysaccharides on the Cell Membrane?

The cell membrane is an important barrier that separates the internal environment of a cell from the external environment. It separates the internal cell environment from the extracellular matrix in multicellular animals.

While it's commonly referred to as a phospholipid bilayer structure, the cell membrane also consists of several other components including proteins and carbohydrate groups.

They all have to work together PERFECTLY for the cell to function.

It is physically and mathematically impossible for this to have come together randomly

"Darwin thought the cell membrane was a simple sausage casing around a amorphous Glop"

You just made up that nonsense claim, right?

No, hun. You should actually read up on this before commenting

 

[ding]

Wonder how Darwin would have explained this....

 

[Ringtone]

...Secondly, the time frame is not 15 billion years. Had you bothered to read my posts before responding, i showed that there was only 700 million years from the formation of Earth to assumed appearance of the first cell; that's the time frame.

Take your time to read and understand those teo points before responding.

So you STILL, and Stupidly, CANNOT Tackle both sides of the ODDS calculation.
So you not only do not have impossible, near impossible, unlikely,.. or ANYTHING.

And I was talking about the Universe, not just earth.. obviously.
(and life could have formed elsewhere first, also obviously, like one of those asteroids I made an OP of, which contains the necessary ingredients.)
unless you want to take your 'god' out of the larger equation.
Of course we don't have your version of.. KWEATION.
Embarrassed huh.


`

There's no way the rudimentary chemical reactions of nature created life. Abiogenesis, the formation of life from non-living material by strictly natural processes, is a pipedream, a fantasy, a myth, a story, a fairy tale, the stuff of a bad hangover . . . indeed, the stuff of what Alice gives you when she's ten feet tall.

Abiogenesis: The Unholy Grail of Atheism

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Why would I be jealous when it was a creationist who used microscopes and discovered the cells.

And did so by setting aside your preferred magical horseshit. When we learn things, we only do so by setting aside iron aged mythology and especially your self soothing, embarrassing lies.