Smoking Bans

[Redfish]

Let's say we had somehow developed the custom of shitting in the corner of whatever room we were in. Right on the floor.

Stupid idea? Of course, but no stupider than taking a noxious weed that's been grown by racist rednecks subsidized by the government bought at minimal prices by huge corporations who then spray it with all kinds of toxins and roll it up in wood pulp that's been bleached white with chlorine, another poison, setting it on fire and inhaling that into your own lungs... and everybody else's who has the misfortune to share your space...

So here we are with this custom of shitting in the corner. Somebody figures out that's why we have all these flies in the room. Somebody else figures out it's spreading disease. Somebody suggests we stop everyone shitting in the corner.

--- Still crowing about your "rights"?

Ideology untempered by practicality invites the absurd. QED.

tobacco farmers are racist rednecks???? really? got any proof of that stupid statement?

I don't need to "prove" a point I haven't made. Think about it.

uhhhh, you said "grown by racist rednecks....."

 

[Redfish]

Why are e-cigs banned from public businesses ?

because it might look like you are smoking and of course that evil water vapor.

 

[Theowl32]

how many of you favor a total prohibition of tobacco in the USA?

how about pot?

It is gradually dying off on its own

I have seen smoking drop from over 50% to less than 20% of the population. Smoking is way down with younger people

Biggest factor is that smoking is no longer "cool". Smokers are now social outcasts...even in their own homes

Exactly. The pressure of social mores. We did the same thing with the idea of drunk driving; it's no longer dorky to act as designated driver and no longer 'adventurous' to weave home from the party and wrap your car around a telephone pole. Ditto racism, sexism and homophobia, even if those are still works in progress.

That's exactly why I take the same approach to gun violence. Throwing laws at social customs doesn't change those customs. Social pressure does.

There is a double edged sword to the "social pressure" you speak of. Many times, if not most times, the bandwagon is on the wrong side of history.

The Asch Conformity experiment shows how people will go along with the crowd, just to feel normal regardless if they are conscious they are making the right decision or not.

Social pressure, can be very dangerous.

 

[rightwinger]

It is gradually dying off on its own

I have seen smoking drop from over 50% to less than 20% of the population. Smoking is way down with younger people

Biggest factor is that smoking is no longer "cool". Smokers are now social outcasts...even in their own homes

Exactly. The pressure of social mores. We did the same thing with the idea of drunk driving; it's no longer dorky to act as designated driver and no longer 'adventurous' to weave home from the party and wrap your car around a telephone pole. Ditto racism, sexism and homophobia, even if those are still works in progress.

That's exactly why I take the same approach to gun violence. Throwing laws at social customs doesn't change those customs. Social pressure does.

There is a double edged sword to the "social pressure" you speak of. Many times, if not most times, the bandwagon is on the wrong side of history.

The Asch Conformity experiment shows how people will go along with the crowd, just to feel normal regardless if they are conscious they are making the right decision or not.

Social pressure, can be very dangerous.

Winner, winner chicken dinner

Didn't take long

 

[Redfish]

Exactly. The pressure of social mores. We did the same thing with the idea of drunk driving; it's no longer dorky to act as designated driver and no longer 'adventurous' to weave home from the party and wrap your car around a telephone pole. Ditto racism, sexism and homophobia, even if those are still works in progress.

That's exactly why I take the same approach to gun violence. Throwing laws at social customs doesn't change those customs. Social pressure does.

There is a double edged sword to the "social pressure" you speak of. Many times, if not most times, the bandwagon is on the wrong side of history.

The Asch Conformity experiment shows how people will go along with the crowd, just to feel normal regardless if they are conscious they are making the right decision or not.

Social pressure, can be very dangerous.

Winner, winner chicken dinner

Didn't take long

if the shoe fits---------------------

 

[Theowl32]

There is a double edged sword to the "social pressure" you speak of. Many times, if not most times, the bandwagon is on the wrong side of history.

The Asch Conformity experiment shows how people will go along with the crowd, just to feel normal regardless if they are conscious they are making the right decision or not.

Social pressure, can be very dangerous.

Winner, winner chicken dinner

Didn't take long

if the shoe fits---------------------

Apparently he thinks all left wing bandwagons are good.

Can you believe the danger we are in with the likes of people who think like rightwinger?

 

[rightwinger]

Winner, winner chicken dinner

Didn't take long

if the shoe fits---------------------

Apparently he thinks all left wing bandwagons are good.

Can you believe the danger we are in with the likes of people who think like rightwinger?

 

[Theowl32]

Yeap, apparently rightwinger still does not think there is an inherent danger in bandwagons and going along with the popular decision.

Do you think it is even possible to be a left wing hack AND have any ability to think for yourself?

I have never seen a left winger actually think for themselves. They mainly go along with the crowd, take on both sides of every issue, they stand for nothing, all while thinking they are the smartest ones in the room.

They certainly cannot see how they are used as pawns by the race dividers and race baiters in the democrat party.

It is sad time to be an American.

 

[rightwinger]

Yeap, apparently rightwinger still does not think there is an inherent danger in bandwagons and going along with the popular decision.

Do you think it is even possible to be a left wing hack AND have any ability to think for yourself?

I have never seen a left winger actually think for themselves. They mainly go along with the crowd, take on both sides of every issue, they stand for nothing, all while thinking they are the smartest ones in the room.

They certainly cannot see how they are used as pawns by the race dividers and race baiters in the democrat party.

It is sad time to be an American.

Smoking bans are here to stay....they are far from a bandwagon, they are a reality

It is social change that will ultimately be the end of smoking. While smoking was "cool" in the 50s, smokers are now social outcasts.....not even welcome to smoke in their own homes

 

[Theowl32]

Yeap, apparently rightwinger still does not think there is an inherent danger in bandwagons and going along with the popular decision.

Do you think it is even possible to be a left wing hack AND have any ability to think for yourself?

I have never seen a left winger actually think for themselves. They mainly go along with the crowd, take on both sides of every issue, they stand for nothing, all while thinking they are the smartest ones in the room.

They certainly cannot see how they are used as pawns by the race dividers and race baiters in the democrat party.

It is sad time to be an American.

Smoking bans are here to stay....they are far from a bandwagon, they are a reality

It is social change that will ultimately be the end of smoking. While smoking was "cool" in the 50s, smokers are now social outcasts.....not even welcome to smoke in their own homes

Keep on thinking following public pressure is always the wise thing. That way, you can say tobacco is really really bad for you all while saying marijuana is actually good for you.

Oh right.....

You are not saying pot is good for you. Naaaaah. Not saying that at all.

 

[rightwinger]

Yeap, apparently rightwinger still does not think there is an inherent danger in bandwagons and going along with the popular decision.

Do you think it is even possible to be a left wing hack AND have any ability to think for yourself?

I have never seen a left winger actually think for themselves. They mainly go along with the crowd, take on both sides of every issue, they stand for nothing, all while thinking they are the smartest ones in the room.

They certainly cannot see how they are used as pawns by the race dividers and race baiters in the democrat party.

It is sad time to be an American.

Smoking bans are here to stay....they are far from a bandwagon, they are a reality

It is social change that will ultimately be the end of smoking. While smoking was "cool" in the 50s, smokers are now social outcasts.....not even welcome to smoke in their own homes

Keep on thinking following public pressure is always the wise thing. That way, you can say tobacco is really really bad for you all while saying marijuana is actually good for you.

Oh right.....

You are not saying pot is good for you. Naaaaah. Not saying that at all.

I don't give a fuck if it is good for you or not

What I care about is YOU forcing me to breathe in your smoke

 

[Theowl32]

Smoking bans are here to stay....they are far from a bandwagon, they are a reality

It is social change that will ultimately be the end of smoking. While smoking was "cool" in the 50s, smokers are now social outcasts.....not even welcome to smoke in their own homes

Keep on thinking following public pressure is always the wise thing. That way, you can say tobacco is really really bad for you all while saying marijuana is actually good for you.

Oh right.....

You are not saying pot is good for you. Naaaaah. Not saying that at all.

I don't give a fuck if it is good for you or not

What I care about is YOU forcing me to breathe in your smoke

Yet you are on the side of smoking pot in places alcohol is sold.

How brave.

You are on the popular side of every issue. Which means, really you stand for nothing.

 

[rightwinger]

Keep on thinking following public pressure is always the wise thing. That way, you can say tobacco is really really bad for you all while saying marijuana is actually good for you.

Oh right.....

You are not saying pot is good for you. Naaaaah. Not saying that at all.

I don't give a fuck if it is good for you or not

What I care about is YOU forcing me to breathe in your smoke

Yet you are on the side of smoking pot in places alcohol is sold.

How brave.

You are on the popular side of every issue. Which means, really you stand for nothing.

No I am not

Why do you keep lying?

 

[Pogo]

tobacco farmers are racist rednecks???? really? got any proof of that stupid statement?

I don't need to "prove" a point I haven't made. Think about it.

uhhhh, you said "grown by racist rednecks....."

Uhhhh, and it's all part of a hypothetical within another hypothetical. You're the guy who morphed it into a declarative statement.

Uhhhh.....

 

[Pogo]

It is gradually dying off on its own

I have seen smoking drop from over 50% to less than 20% of the population. Smoking is way down with younger people

Biggest factor is that smoking is no longer "cool". Smokers are now social outcasts...even in their own homes

Exactly. The pressure of social mores. We did the same thing with the idea of drunk driving; it's no longer dorky to act as designated driver and no longer 'adventurous' to weave home from the party and wrap your car around a telephone pole. Ditto racism, sexism and homophobia, even if those are still works in progress.

That's exactly why I take the same approach to gun violence. Throwing laws at social customs doesn't change those customs. Social pressure does.

There is a double edged sword to the "social pressure" you speak of. Many times, if not most times, the bandwagon is on the wrong side of history.

The Asch Conformity experiment shows how people will go along with the crowd, just to feel normal regardless if they are conscious they are making the right decision or not.

Social pressure, can be very dangerous.

Bullshit conflation. Not only Godwinesque but you're trying to equate mob mentality with social mores. Two different things.

Mob mentality is all emotion and short-lived. It's quick to ignite and lives a short time. Social mores are standards that evolve at a glacial pace; how we dress in public; what kind of language we might use with our boss, our parents, our pets, or strangers; what we're expected to bring to a party, etc. They are the value system of any culture. That also includes whether it's cool to light up in a public space versus taking it outside.

Watch the intro to this TV interview from 55 years ago -- watch what Mike Wallace does between 0:17 and 0:21 and try to imagine that happening now:

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZpKkHCVbSyw"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZpKkHCVbSyw[/ame]

Time was, within the lifetime of some of us, that smoking was everywhere and considered normal. Even in a restaurant or on a plane. At the same time all the men wore hats (which makes for hilarious crowd scenes in pictures from 75 years ago) and were expected to take them off indoors. Now all that has changed radically, because we got incrementally smarter. THAT is what social mores are. Doesn't have jack squat to do with demagogues and dictators stirring up the rabble with the emotional rhetorical equivalent of junk food.

 

[protectionist]

After watching a story on the news about banning smoking in public areas- including businesses- forcibly, I realized how wrong that is. On government property- ie streets and government buildings like courthouses- the government should have the ability to ban it. But for privately owned businesses, they should be given the ability to choose. If they ban smoking, smokers can simply go elsewhere. If smoking is allowed, and offends people, said customers can use their competitors instead. As such, a business owner can then allow/disallow smoking if it would help their business. Government doesn't have a right to mandate businesses to ban something, even if it is for "the public's safety". Even that could be disproved by showing that smoking inside a building where everyone is okay with it does not harm those who actually care. And enviromentalists will now proceed to ask about factories pumping pollutants into the atmosphere and try to apply my logic to that. That is a different case, simply because potentially harmful pollutants are being put directly into the atmosphere, whereas smoking in a restaurant hasn't killed anyone walking in the street outside, as far as I know.

Nonsense.

There's no 'right' to smoke.

Of course there is, it is a perfectly legal activity. What compelling government interest is there in banning it on private property or outside?

An even more compelling interest than banning cocaine or heroin. Smoking tobacco, just as addictive as the other 2 drugs, goes into the air where non smokers are forced to inhale it. If anyone smokes in my space, he may be looking down the barrel of a gun (which I carry legally)

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

After watching a story on the news about banning smoking in public areas- including businesses- forcibly, I realized how wrong that is. On government property- ie streets and government buildings like courthouses- the government should have the ability to ban it. But for privately owned businesses, they should be given the ability to choose. If they ban smoking, smokers can simply go elsewhere. If smoking is allowed, and offends people, said customers can use their competitors instead. As such, a business owner can then allow/disallow smoking if it would help their business. Government doesn't have a right to mandate businesses to ban something, even if it is for "the public's safety". Even that could be disproved by showing that smoking inside a building where everyone is okay with it does not harm those who actually care. And enviromentalists will now proceed to ask about factories pumping pollutants into the atmosphere and try to apply my logic to that. That is a different case, simply because potentially harmful pollutants are being put directly into the atmosphere, whereas smoking in a restaurant hasn't killed anyone walking in the street outside, as far as I know.

Nonsense.

There's no 'right' to smoke.

Of course there is, it is a perfectly legal activity. What compelling government interest is there in banning it on private property or outside?

And yet again: we know there is no 'right' to smoke because the courts have upheld such bans as Constitutional. That smoking is legal doesn't mean it can't be regulated. The issue concerns smoking prohibitions on work sites and in public places such as restaurants where second-hand smoke is in fact a health issue, a compelling governmental interest.

Smoking bans in no way 'violate' any civil liberty, as there is no 'right' to smoke, just as there's no 'right' to drive a car or have a driver's license.

 

[Pogo]

Yeap, apparently rightwinger still does not think there is an inherent danger in bandwagons and going along with the popular decision.

Do you think it is even possible to be a left wing hack AND have any ability to think for yourself?

I have never seen a left winger actually think for themselves. They mainly go along with the crowd, take on both sides of every issue, they stand for nothing, all while thinking they are the smartest ones in the room.

They certainly cannot see how they are used as pawns by the race dividers and race baiters in the democrat party.

It is sad time to be an American.

Smoking bans are here to stay....they are far from a bandwagon, they are a reality

It is social change that will ultimately be the end of smoking. While smoking was "cool" in the 50s, smokers are now social outcasts.....not even welcome to smoke in their own homes

Keep on thinking following public pressure is always the wise thing. That way, you can say tobacco is really really bad for you all while saying marijuana is actually good for you.

Oh right.....

You are not saying pot is good for you. Naaaaah. Not saying that at all.

I guess I was right. You're literally incapable of making a post without a strawman inserted.

Somebody brings up smoking tobacco, you bring in a marijuana strawman. Nobody else brought up marijuana. Somebody mentions social mores, you bring up Hitler. Nobody brought up Hitler. You get called out on that, and you try to make it about racism. Smoking is not about racism.

You're literally incapable of rational thought. Have you made any post at all in this thread -- even one -- that didn't use a strawman or some other fallacy as a bullshit crutch? Anywhere? Ever?

 

[Vandalshandle]

Nonsense.

There's no 'right' to smoke.

Of course there is, it is a perfectly legal activity. What compelling government interest is there in banning it on private property or outside?

An even more compelling interest than banning cocaine or heroin. Smoking tobacco, just as addictive as the other 2 drugs, goes into the air where non smokers are forced to inhale it. If anyone smokes in my space, he may be looking down the barrel of a gun (which I carry legally)

Oh, please!

 

[Jarlaxle]

He's batshit insane.