Snap out of it Obamaphiles -- Your cult figure is just a liar.

[Old Rocks]

Not sure whey anyone believes anything these people say. It is no secret that every major shithole in the U.S. is a liberal stronghold. What more evidence does one need that these folks are full of it?

Really? You are calling Oregon a shithole? We understand the incompetance that is endemic in the Rushpublican Party, and want no part of it.

 

[Midnight Marauder]

There are plenty of horror stories out there that involve Health Insurance companies denying claims at the very time of need.

Therefore, there shouldn't be any need at all to lie about them. Correct?

But the biggest horror story is the fact that of the 700,000, or more, families that go bankrupt every year in this nation because of medical bills, over 50% have insurance. In Europe, Japan, and Taiwan, there are no families going broke because of medical bills.

I've heard this talking point bantered about before. No one's ever been able to back it, for some odd reason.

 

[VaYank5150]

Snap out of it Obamaphiles -- Your cult figure is just a liar.

THIS statement coming from the same group of people falling all over themselves about a book someone else wrote for their cult figure, Sarah Palin???

Does the hypocrisy never cease?

I'm not in that "group of people." Does your ignorance and idiocy never cease?

Anything to say about the topic now?

Besides the fact that you are a liar? Nope.

 

[Old Rocks]

you don't care that people are denied health care when they need it most

In this particular case, the person committed fraud by lying on her application for the insurance. She admits it. Concealed a known, pre-existing heart condition to get a cheaper rate. You're perfectly okay with this however.

I doubt is was to get a cheaper rate. More than likely, to get any insurance at all. But, if we follow the example of Germany and Switzerland, we can eliminate that whole problem by making the Health Insurance companies non-profits, paying the CEOs reasonable salaries, and no pre-existing bullshit.

 

[Midnight Marauder]

In this case they decided that her heart condition and weight caused breast cancer

No, in this case they realized the person had committed fraud on them.

 

[Old Rocks]

Hey Midnight, I have to go to work now, but I will be back tonight, and back those figures to the hilt. Both the figures for the US and those for the wiser nations.

 

[rightwinger]

There are plenty of horror stories out there that involve Health Insurance companies denying claims at the very time of need.

But the biggest horror story is the fact that of the 700,000, or more, families that go bankrupt every year in this nation because of medical bills, over 50% have insurance. In Europe, Japan, and Taiwan, there are no families going broke because of medical bills.

Other countries look at us in amazement that Americans actually lose their homes because of healthcare

 

[Midnight Marauder]

you don't care that people are denied health care when they need it most

In this particular case, the person committed fraud by lying on her application for the insurance. She admits it. Concealed a known, pre-existing heart condition to get a cheaper rate. You're perfectly okay with this however.

I doubt is was to get a cheaper rate. More than likely, to get any insurance at all.

The insurer in this case, still provides coverage if you have a pre-existing condition. It's just provided at a higher rate.

But, if we follow the example of Germany and Switzerland, we can eliminate that whole problem by making the Health Insurance companies non-profits, paying the CEOs reasonable salaries, and no pre-existing bullshit.

Germany and Switzerland don't have what's being proposed in our Congress. Dems only follow "European models" that are proven failures and ignore the ones that work well, such as this and Nuclear power, for starters.

 

[Midnight Marauder]

Hey Midnight, I have to go to work now, but I will be back tonight, and back those figures to the hilt. Both the figures for the US and those for the wiser nations.

Yeah, I'll be looking for that. I am sure it's going to come from a credible, non-partisan source too.

 

[Midnight Marauder]

Other countries look at us in amazement that Americans actually lose their homes because of healthcare

They also look at us in amazement and scoff at our backwardness of having age of consent laws too!

 

[Midnight Marauder]

THIS statement coming from the same group of people falling all over themselves about a book someone else wrote for their cult figure, Sarah Palin???

Does the hypocrisy never cease?

I'm not in that "group of people." Does your ignorance and idiocy never cease?

Anything to say about the topic now?

Besides the fact that you are a liar? Nope.

No lies here. But then, you wouldn't really know any difference between a lie and the truth anyway.

You don't wish to address the topic? Obama outright LYING to people's faces? Then telling Michelle "They're drinkin' the juice!"

 

[Ravi]

If you read the article, you'll find more such "mistakes."Are you projecting again? Or just outright lying again? Total strawman, once again you substitute a fictional opinion/position for my actual one.

And actually, the idea you seem to have that the Dems health scare bill will actually change anything, or even help, is what's disturbing.

It's no strawman. You find a story about someone being denied health care when they need it most and use it as a tool to bash Obama. Therefore, you don't care that people are denied health care when they need it most. Don't be such a wus, admit it.

Your logic is flawed. I made no opinion whatsoever of the different situations described in the article.

The article isn't a tool. It's information you wish never saw the light of day. So, you continue your knee-jerk apologist mantra unabated, not minding what an idiot you're making of yourself in the process.

Hey Ravi -- they won't kick you out of the cult for not defending every little thing that comes along, ya know. You are allowed to actually ignore stuff, even just be honest and say, "that's not good." They don't mind you having a LITTLE intellectual honesty.

But only just a little. You wouldn't want to make it habitual!

I get it now. You voted for Obama because you believed all the hopey changy bullshit and thought he was some kind of God...now you're bitter and disappointed because your "feelings" (those things you claim only liberals have) were wrong. I voted for him for one reason only: Sarah Palin. He cannot disappoint me and I don't do hero worship like you do.

The next time you do a thread about how wrong it is for private insurance companies to do this kind of shit will be the first time, am I right?

 

[Midnight Marauder]

(

It's no strawman. You find a story about someone being denied health care when they need it most and use it as a tool to bash Obama. Therefore, you don't care that people are denied health care when they need it most. Don't be such a wus, admit it.

Your logic is flawed. I made no opinion whatsoever of the different situations described in the article.

The article isn't a tool. It's information you wish never saw the light of day. So, you continue your knee-jerk apologist mantra unabated, not minding what an idiot you're making of yourself in the process.

Hey Ravi -- they won't kick you out of the cult for not defending every little thing that comes along, ya know. You are allowed to actually ignore stuff, even just be honest and say, "that's not good." They don't mind you having a LITTLE intellectual honesty.

But only just a little. You wouldn't want to make it habitual!

I get it now. You voted for Obama because you believed all the hopey changy bullshit and thought he was some kind of God..

Wrong again, as you know. I voted for him because there was no way I wanted McCain anywhere near the Oval office, after seeing his executive and management skills close-up, in the running of his campaign.

I voted for him for one reason only: Sarah Palin. He cannot disappoint me and I don't do hero worship like you do.

If that's not cult worship, hero worship, what is?

At least you (almost) admit it now.

 

[Ravi]

(

Your logic is flawed. I made no opinion whatsoever of the different situations described in the article.

The article isn't a tool. It's information you wish never saw the light of day. So, you continue your knee-jerk apologist mantra unabated, not minding what an idiot you're making of yourself in the process.

Hey Ravi -- they won't kick you out of the cult for not defending every little thing that comes along, ya know. You are allowed to actually ignore stuff, even just be honest and say, "that's not good." They don't mind you having a LITTLE intellectual honesty.

But only just a little. You wouldn't want to make it habitual!

I get it now. You voted for Obama because you believed all the hopey changy bullshit and thought he was some kind of God..

Wrong again, as you know. I voted for him because there was no way I wanted McCain anywhere near the Oval office, after seeing his executive and management skills close-up, in the running of his campaign.

I voted for him for one reason only: Sarah Palin. He cannot disappoint me and I don't do hero worship like you do.

If that's not cult worship, hero worship, what is?

At least you (almost) admit it now.

You didn't understand what I said. Since he was never my hero he cannot disappoint me.

 

[Midnight Marauder]

(

I get it now. You voted for Obama because you believed all the hopey changy bullshit and thought he was some kind of God..

Wrong again, as you know. I voted for him because there was no way I wanted McCain anywhere near the Oval office, after seeing his executive and management skills close-up, in the running of his campaign.

I voted for him for one reason only: Sarah Palin. He cannot disappoint me and I don't do hero worship like you do.

If that's not cult worship, hero worship, what is?

At least you (almost) admit it now.

You didn't understand what I said. Since he was never my hero he cannot disappoint me.

I do understand the lie you were reflexively trying to tell. That's the point.

 

[Ravi]

What lie do you speak of?

 

[Midnight Marauder]

What lie do you speak of?

You're clueless now?

When someone is held as a cult figure, no true follower can ever be disappointed. It's not the other way around. Koresh and Jones and Manson's true followers, which are still alive, still aren't disappointed!

I'm not disappointed in Barack and also not all that surprised at what we're seeing. I WAS however, a little bit fooled into thinking he might actually govern more from the center like he campaigned. But like Clinton, he eventually will -- he'll have to, to stay in office.

I don't hate him, he's actually very personable and affable and likable, and I admire what he's accomplished. But there's no feelings there, either way.

But I am holding him to his words. Which is what we all should do with every President no matter his/her stripe.

 

[logical4u]

This is so perfect for today's political situation...







The public option IS a path for the government to "void" the Bill of Rights. The following is one of the best illustrations I have read.

I am always in awe of our patriots of yesteryear. What a refreshing example of a man with integrity serving the citizenry of the United States . Perhaps America 's citizens will arise and take back our country from the threat of socialistic agendas that will destroy us.

I read this piece several times, to absorb as much as I could of all the constitutional truths that are expounded upon by Col. Davy Crockett.

Please give this historical portrayal, of the awakening of Davy Crockett,

as a true defender of the Constitution, your full consideration! You will

more fully understand your love for "Life, Liberty , and the pursuit of Happiness." The Constitution of The United States of America defined!

Not Yours To Give

Col. David Crockett
US Representative from Tennessee

Originally published in "The Life of Colonel David Crockett,"
by Edward Sylvester Ellis.


One day in the House of Representatives a bill was taken up appropriating money for the benefit of a widow of a distinguished naval officer. Several beautiful speeches had been made in its support. The Speaker was just about to put the question when Crockett arose:

"Mr. Speaker--I have as much respect for the memory of the deceased, and as much sympathy for the sufferings of the living, if suffering there be, as any man in this House, but we must not permit our respect for the dead or our sympathy for a part of the living to lead us into an act of injustice to the balance of the living. I will not go into an argument to prove that Congress has not the power to appropriate this money as an act of charity. Every member upon this floor knows it. We have the right, as individuals, to give away as much of our own money as we please in charity; but as members of Congress we have no right so to appropriate a dollar of the public money. Some eloquent appeals have been made to us upon the ground that it is a debt due the deceased. Mr. Speaker, the deceased lived long after the close of the war; he was in office to the day of his death, and I have never heard that the government was in arrears to him.

"Every man in this House knows it is not a debt. We cannot, without the grossest corruption, appropriate this money as the payment of a debt. We have not the semblance of authority to appropriate it as charity. Mr. Speaker, I have said we have the right to give as much money of our own as we please. I am the poorest man on this floor. I cannot vote for this bill, but I will give one week's pay to the object, and if every member of Congress will do the same, it will amount to more than the bill asks."

He took his seat. Nobody replied. The bill was put upon its passage, and, instead of passing unanimously, as was generally supposed, and as, no doubt, it would, but for that speech, it received but few votes, and, of course, was lost.

Later, when asked by a friend why he had opposed the appropriation, Crockett gave this explanation:

"Several years ago I was one evening standing on the steps of the Capitol with some other members of Congress, when our attention was attracted by a great light over in Georgetown . It was evidently a large fire. We jumped into a hack and drove over as fast as we could. In spite of all that could be done, many houses were burned and many families made houseless, and, besides, some of them had lost all but the clothes they had on. The weather was very cold, and when I saw so many women and children suffering, I felt that something ought to be done for them. The next morning a bill was introduced appropriating $20,000 for their relief. We put aside all other business and rushed it through as soon as it could be done.

"The next summer, when it began to be time to think about election, I concluded I would take a scout around among the boys of my district. I had no opposition there, but, as the election was some time off, I did not know what might turn up. When riding one day in a part of my district in which I was more of a stranger than any other, I saw a man in a field plowing and coming toward the road. I gauged my gait so that we should meet as he came to the fence. As he came up, I spoke to the man. He replied politely, but, as I thought, rather coldly.

"I began: 'Well, friend, I am one of those unfortunate beings called candidates, and---'


"Yes I know you; you are Colonel Crockett. I have seen you once before, and voted for you the last time you were elected. I suppose you are out electioneering now, but you had better not waste your time or mine, I shall not vote for you again."

"This was a sockdolager...I begged him to tell me what was the matter.
" 'Well, Colonel, it is hardly worth-while to waste time or words upon it. I do not see how it can be mended, but you gave a vote last winter which shows that either you have not capacity to understand the Constitution, or that you are wanting in the honesty and firmness to be guided by it. In either case you are not the man to represent me. But I beg your pardon for expressing it in that way. I did not intend to avail myself of the privilege of the constituent to speak plainly to a candidate for the purpose of insulting or wounding you. I intend by it only to say that your understanding of the Constitution is very different from mine; and I will say to you what, but for my rudeness, I should not have said, that I believe you to be honest.
.But an understanding of the Constitution different from mine I cannot overlook, because the Constitution, to be worth anything, must be held sacred, and rigidly observed in all its provisions. The man who wields power and misinterprets it is the more dangerous the more honest he is.'

" 'I admit the truth of all you say, but there must be some mistake about it, for I do not remember that I gave any vote last winter upon any constitutional question.' " 'No, Colonel, there's no mistake. Though I live in the backwoods and seldom go from home, I take the papers from Washington and read very carefully all the proceedings of Congress. My papers say that last winter you voted for a bill to appropriate $20,000 to some sufferers by a fire in Georgetown . Is that true?'

" 'Well, my friend; I may as well own up. You have got me there. But certainly nobody will complain that a great and rich country like ours should give the insignificant sum of $20,000 to relieve its suffering women and children, particularly with a full and overflowing Treasury, and I am sure, if you had been there, you would have done just as I did.'

" 'It is not the amount, Colonel, that I complain of; it is the principle. In the first place, the government ought to have in the Treasury no more than enough for its legitimate purposes. But that has nothing with the question. The power of collecting and disbursing money at pleasure is the most dangerous power that can be entrusted to man, particularly under our system of collecting revenue by a tariff, which reaches every man in the country, no matter how poor he may be, and the poorer he is the more he pays in proportion to his means. What is worse, it presses upon him without his knowledge where the weight centers, for there is not a man in the United States who can ever guess how much he pays to the government. So you see, that while you are contributing to relieve one, you are drawing it from thousands who are even worse off than he. If you had the right to give anything, the amount was simply a matter of discretion with you, and you had as much right to give $20,000,000 as $20,000. If you have the right to give to one, you have the right to give to all; and, as the Constitution neither defines charity nor stipulates the amount, you are at liberty to give to any and everything which you may believe, or profess to believe, is a charity, and to any amount you may think proper. You will very easily perceive what a wide door this would open for fraud and corruption and favoritism, on the one hand, and for robbing the people on the other. 'No, Colonel, Congress has no right to give charity. Individual members may give as much of their own money as they please, but they have no right to touch a dollar of the public money for that purpose. If twice as many houses had been burned in this county as in Georgetown , neither you nor any other member of Congress would have thought of appropriating a dollar for our relief. There are about two hundred and forty members of Congress. If they had shown their sympathy for the sufferers by contributing each one week's pay, it would have made over $13,000. There are plenty of wealthy men in and around Washington who could have given $20,000 without depriving themselves of even a luxury of life.' "The congressmen chose to keep their own money, which, if reports be true, some of them spend not very creditably; and the people about Washington , no doubt, applauded you for relieving them from the necessity of giving by giving what was not yours to give. The people have delegated to Congress, by the Constitution, the power to do certain things. To do these, it is authorized to collect and pay moneys, and for nothing else. Everything beyond this is usurpation, and a violation of the Constitution.'

" 'So you see, Colonel, you have violated the Constitution in what I consider a vital point. It is a precedent fraught with danger to the country, for when Congress once begins to stretch its power beyond the limits of the Constitution, there is no limit to it, and no security for the people. I have no doubt you acted honestly, but that does not make it any better, except as far as you are personally concerned, and you see that I cannot vote for you.'

"I tell you I felt streaked. I saw if I should have opposition, and this man should go to talking, he would set others to talking, and in that district I was a gone fawn-skin. I could not answer him, and the fact is, I was so fully convinced that he was right, I did not want to. But I must satisfy him, and I said to him:

" 'Well, my friend, you hit the nail upon the head when you said I had not sense enough to understand the Constitution. I intended to be guided by it, and thought I had studied it fully. I have heard many speeches in Congress about the powers of Congress, but what you have said here at your plow has got more hard, sound sense in it than all the fine speeches I ever heard. If I had ever taken the view of it that you have, I would have put my head into the fire before I would have given that vote; and if you will forgive me and vote for me again, if I ever vote for another unconstitutional law I wish I may be shot.'

"He laughingly replied; 'Yes, Colonel, you have sworn to that once before, but I will trust you again upon one condition. You say that you are convinced that your vote was wrong. Your acknowledgment of it will do more good than beating you for it. If, as you go around the district, you will tell people about this vote, and that you are satisfied it was wrong, I will not only vote for you, but will do what I can to keep down opposition, and, perhaps, I may exert some little influence in that way.'

" 'If I don't', said I, 'I wish I may be shot; and to convince you that I am in earnest in what I say I will come back this way in a week or ten days, and if you will get up a gathering of the people, I will make a speech to them. Get up a barbecue, and I will pay for it.'

" 'No, Colonel, we are not rich people in this section, but we have plenty of provisions to contribute for a barbecue, and some to spare for those who have none. The push of crops will be over in a few days, and we can then afford a day for a barbecue. This is Thursday; I will see to getting it up on Saturday week. Come to my house on Friday, and we will go together, and I promise you a very respectable crowd to see and hear you.'

" 'Well, I will be here. But one thing more before I say good-bye. I must know your name.'

" 'My name is Bunce.'

" 'Not Horatio Bunce?'

" 'Yes.'

" 'Well, Mr. Bunce, I never saw you before, though you say you have seen me, but I know you very well. I am glad I have met you, and very proud that I may hope to have you for my friend.'

"It was one of the luckiest hits of my life that I met him. He mingled but little with the public, but was widely known for his remarkable intelligence and incorruptible integrity, and for a heart brimful and running over with kindness and benevolence, which showed themselves not only in words but in acts. He was the oracle of the whole country around him, and his fame had extended far beyond the circle of his immediate acquaintance. Though I had never met him, before, I had heard much of him, and but for this meeting it is very likely I should have had opposition, and had been beaten. One thing is very certain, no man could now stand up in that district under such a vote.

"At the appointed time I was at his house, having told our conversation to every crowd I had met, and to every man I stayed all night with, and I found that it gave the people an interest and a confidence in me stronger than I had ever seen manifested before.

"Though I was considerably fatigued when I reached his house, and, under ordinary circumstances, should have gone early to bed, I kept him up until midnight, talking about the principles and affairs of government, and got more real, true knowledge of them than I had got all my life before.

"I have known and seen much of him since, for I respect him - no, that is not the word - I reverence and love him more than any living man, and I go to see him two or three times every year; and I will tell you, sir, if every one who professes to be a Christian lived and acted and enjoyed it as he does, the religion of Christ would take the world by storm.

"But to return to my story. The next morning we went to the barbecue, and, to my surprise, found about a thousand men there. I met a good many whom I had not known before, and they and my friend introduced me around until I had got pretty well acquainted - at least, they all knew me.

"In due time notice was given that I would speak to them. They gathered up around a stand that had been erected. I opened my speech by saying:

" 'Fellow-citizens - I present myself before you today feeling like a new man. My eyes have lately been opened to truths which ignorance or prejudice, or both, had heretofore hidden from my view. I feel that I can today offer you the ability to render you more valuable service than I have ever been able to render before. I am here today more for the purpose of acknowledging my error than to seek your votes. That I should make this acknowledgment is due to myself as well as to you. Whether you will vote for me is a matter for your consideration only.'"

"I went on to tell them about the fire and my vote for the appropriation and then told them why I was satisfied it was wrong. I closed by saying:

" 'And now, fellow-citizens, it remains only for me to tell you that the most of the speech you have listened to with so much interest was simply a repetition of the arguments by which your neighbor, Mr. Bunce, convinced me of my error.

" 'It is the best speech I ever made in my life, but he is entitled to the credit for it. And now I hope he is satisfied with his convert and that he will get up here and tell you so.'

"He came upon the stand and said:

" 'Fellow-citizens - It affords me great pleasure to comply with the request of Colonel Crockett. I have always considered him a thoroughly honest man, and I am satisfied that he will faithfully perform all that he has promised you today.'

"He went down, and there went up from that crowd such a shout for Davy Crockett as his name never called forth before.'

"I am not much given to tears, but I was taken with a choking then and felt some big drops rolling down my cheeks. And I tell you now that the remembrance of those few words spoken by such a man, and the honest, hearty shout they produced, is worth more to me than all the honors I have received and all the reputation I have ever made, or ever shall make, as a member of Congress.'

"Now, sir," concluded Crockett, "you know why I made that speech yesterday.

"There is one thing now to which I will call your attention. You remember that I proposed to give a week's pay. There are in that House many very wealthy men - men who think nothing of spending a week's pay, or a dozen of them, for a dinner or a wine party when they have something to accomplish by it. Some of those same men made beautiful speeches upon the great debt of gratitude which the country owed the deceased--a debt which could not be paid by money--and the insignificance and worthlessness of money, particularly so insignificant a sum as $10,000, when weighed against the honor of the nation. Yet not one of them responded to my proposition. Money with them is nothing but trash when it is to come out of the people. But it is the one great thing for which most of them are striving, and many of them sacrifice honor, integrity, and justice to obtain it."

 

[Modbert]

I've heard this talking point bantered about before. No one's ever been able to back it, for some odd reason.

Medical Bills Leading Cause of Bankruptcy, Harvard Study Finds

Look at that, a Harvard Study. And that was back in 2005.

This is my source: Himmelstein, D, E., et al, “Medical Bankruptcy in the United States, 2007: Results of a National Study, American Journal of Medicine, May 2009.

For the following: A recent study found that 62 percent of all bankruptcies filed in 2007 were linked to medical expenses. Of those who filed for bankruptcy, nearly 80 percent had health insurance

This is my source: Robertson, C.T., et al. “Get Sick, Get Out: The Medical Causes of Home Mortgage Foreclosures,” Health Matrix, 2008.

For the following: According to another published article, about 1.5 million families lose their homes to foreclosure every year due to unaffordable medical costs

Health care related bankruptcy is on the rise, study says: Consumer Reports Health Blog

The researchers found that illness or medical bills contributed to nearly two thirds, or 62 percent, of all bankruptcies in 2007—before the major impact of the housing collapse and current economic downturn. That’s a 50 percent increase over a similar survey in 2001 by the same researchers.

Many people lose their heath insurance after suffering an illness or injury. A quarter of businesses that offer health insurance cancel coverage immediately when an employee suffers a disabling illness, and 25 percent more cancel coverage within a year, according to the study.

60%+ also fear bankruptcy due to medical bills.

And then there is this:

Filing for Bankruptcy due to Medical Bills: Medical Insurance Ineffective So Healthcare Reform Ahead | Suite101.com

As many as 78% of those filing for bankruptcy due to healthcare costs had medical insurance when their illness began. Steffie Woolhandler, an associate medical professor at Harvard, stated that: "Health insurance is not a guarantee that illness won't bankrupt you." There are many healthcare costs that aren't covered, such as deductibles and uncovered services.

As for the Japan, etc #:

Japanese Health Care: Lower Costs And Nearly No Bankruptcy

Medical bankruptcy in Japan is also almost unknown,

By T.R. Reid -- Five Myths About Health Care in the Rest of the World

Read Myth #5

Well look at that, MYTH BUSTED.

 

[Midnight Marauder]

Medical Bills Leading Cause of Bankruptcy, Harvard Study Finds

Look at that, a Harvard Study. And that was back in 2005.

This is my source: Himmelstein, D, E., et al, “Medical Bankruptcy in the United States, 2007: Results of a National Study, American Journal of Medicine, May 2009.

For the following: A recent study found that 62 percent of all bankruptcies filed in 2007 were linked to medical expenses. Of those who filed for bankruptcy, nearly 80 percent had health insurance

This is my source: Robertson, C.T., et al. “Get Sick, Get Out: The Medical Causes of Home Mortgage Foreclosures,” Health Matrix, 2008.

For the following: According to another published article, about 1.5 million families lose their homes to foreclosure every year due to unaffordable medical costs

Health care related bankruptcy is on the rise, study says: Consumer Reports Health Blog

The researchers found that illness or medical bills contributed to nearly two thirds, or 62 percent, of all bankruptcies in 2007—before the major impact of the housing collapse and current economic downturn. That’s a 50 percent increase over a similar survey in 2001 by the same researchers.

Many people lose their heath insurance after suffering an illness or injury. A quarter of businesses that offer health insurance cancel coverage immediately when an employee suffers a disabling illness, and 25 percent more cancel coverage within a year, according to the study.

60%+ also fear bankruptcy due to medical bills.

And then there is this:

Filing for Bankruptcy due to Medical Bills: Medical Insurance Ineffective So Healthcare Reform Ahead | Suite101.com

As many as 78% of those filing for bankruptcy due to healthcare costs had medical insurance when their illness began. Steffie Woolhandler, an associate medical professor at Harvard, stated that: "Health insurance is not a guarantee that illness won't bankrupt you." There are many healthcare costs that aren't covered, such as deductibles and uncovered services.

As for the Japan, etc #:

Japanese Health Care: Lower Costs And Nearly No Bankruptcy

Medical bankruptcy in Japan is also almost unknown,

By T.R. Reid -- Five Myths About Health Care in the Rest of the World

Read Myth #5

Well look at that, MYTH BUSTED.

Yeah, Harvard's non-partisan. Right? Consumer Reports, pretty good source.

And still, no 700,000 a year figure anywhere in those links. I'm not disputing the problem exists, I want to see the source of the 700K figure. Because pretty soon you're gonna run out of people to file who haven't filed!

Yes, people do go bankrupt due to medical expenses. Is the answer then, to just control everything? And STILL with no guarantee the costs won't still spiral? NO guarantee there won't be rationing? People actually coming into your house to weigh you and check your fridge?

If they want to reform health care insurance, they should just call it that, make it that, and stick to that.

Agreed?