So I was asked how I became a Libertarian from being a former Progressive.

The2ndAmendment

Gold Member
Feb 16, 2013
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I wrote this rather heartfelt response, I didn't even need to compose a second draft:

To: bigrebnc1775

I am ashamed to admit that was a raving liberal until December. However, as I am a young man of 22 years of age, I can forgive myself of this sin. Being in a household that watched MSNBC for six years, I'm sure you could understand, while also going through a very liberal college experience.

That being said, I've always had a suspicion that Libertarianism was ... somehow ... correct. I disregarded these feelings, as blamed myself for violating the doctrine of "political correctness." A term that is really known as "Cultural Marxism."

However, no matter how liberal I was brought up, in school, in the media, etc, I ALWAYS KNEW that the 2nd Amendment was to PROTECT YOU FROM TYRANNY, just like EVERY OTHER Amendment.

Now in school, they NEVER taught anything about the 2nd Amendment. However, since they taught us [dogmatically] how the other Amendments protect your from tyranny, I assumed naturally that the 2nd Amendment also did the same, and guns were simply something you didn't discuss in school.

So having been left to think for MYSELF about the 2nd Amendment since I was as young as 11 years old, I came to the right conclusion, since NO OUTSIDE LIBERAL FORCE brainwashed me otherwise.

After this November Election, I watched Obama's first priority in Office was to debar us the use of firearms. I watched the liberal media go into a killing frenzy, the 2nd Amendment its prey.

I watched my favorite anchor, Chris Mathews assault the 2nd Amendment with such vigor, that I was frightened of him, and then I realized, EVERYTHING the EDUCATED libertarians and conservative laws professors said are TRUE.

The PROGRESSIVES have been attacking our Constitution relentlessly since 1913. "The power to tax, is the power to destroy." This phrase comes from Justice Marshall in Mculloch vs Maryland.

The Progressives learned from this and passed the 16th Amendment, allowing the Federal Government to tax income, and set up the Federal Reserve, the control the distribution and flow of income. The Free Market system was destroyed. We had entered a well disguised period of CORRUPT Marxism ever since, the wealthy have become increasing wealthier, ad the poor have become increasingly poorer. The men at the top control everything, and when the go broke, they GET A BAILOUT. We we go broke, WE GET A FORECLOSURE and a forced to surrender our NATURAL RIGHT to PROPERTY.

In the same year, the progressives passed the 17th Amendment. Although it looks good on paper, it destroyed the only enshrined mechanism in our Constitution that allowed the States to have RECOURSE against the Federal Government.

The Campaign to Restore Federalism

I have learned that Democratic leaders, including many black leaders, PURPOSELY keep blacks IMPOVERISHED, so that they will be FOREVER enslaved and dependent upon the government. Efforts by HONORABLE black men, like Booker T Washington, and Martin Luther King have been CORRUPTED by top tier black leaders, who crave nothing but power, and keep their own people subjugated by impoverishment, so they shall remain their overseers for all eternity.

Granted, minorities REALLY DO NEED Affirmative Action, and I would be the first to defend it, but at the SAME TIME, we should be working to IMPROVE THEIR ECONOMIC CONDITIONS. We should afford them good school and teachers, truly crack down on the drugs crossing our border, to systematically halt the drug trade nationwide. We should provide them more after school programs, like our white children, better public transportation in their communities and start perhaps even some summer camps that teach and inspire these young minds how to become successful and independent, and teach and impress upon them the writings and philosophies of John Locke and other great thinkers, maybe such a summer camp could be in Washington DC. The goal to promote and train black leaders who will rescue their people such horrendous ghetto conditions, that will empower them to become independent of the government, they will truly free them from slavery.

Sir, I could write all day about this, the startling discoveries I've been making since this December, it hasn't even been three full months since, and my entire Progressive ideology has been overturned on its head.

I realize that these Progressives are masters, and mean to be masters, and nothing else.

Most evident is FDR's "Court Packing" Scheme. He used this to threaten the Supreme Court to rule in favor of letting Bureaucracies, the lynchpin of progressivism, to make their own rules, laws and regulations by which to govern the people, and to enforce them thus.

Thus, the Congress ceded its most important powers to the Bureaucracy, the ability to make laws. Sure, they still make meaningful laws from time to time, but the PEOPLE will wrongly blame Congress for many policies, that were actually the result of the Bureaucracy, and since the Bureaucracy is immune to Elections, even if the people were actually upset with some bureaucracy, they could not vote them out anyway. Nor can most bureaucrats be fired without intense legal challenge. Nor are most policies of the bureaucracy justiciable in the courts.

The Bureaucracy is the autonomous form of government that controls all of us today, in thanks to FDR, the 4-term Emperor who sought to overpower the Supreme Court and succeeded.
 
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Libertarians make a lot of good points. But their philosophy only addresses a small portion of what it takes to run a country. So eventually all "libertarians" must eventually choose a side between Republicans and Democrats.
 
Libertarians make a lot of good points. But their philosophy only addresses a small portion of what it takes to run a country. So eventually all "libertarians" must eventually choose a side between Republicans and Democrats.

This is the best lie of them all, regardless of which form it takes.

Here are two ways in which Libertarians can easily govern a modern society by their philosophy, and only by their philosophy.

The Constitution of the United States, Amendment X:

"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited to it by the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

WOW! Imagine that! The States have pretty much the power to make whatever laws they want, so long as they do not infringe upon the powers specifically given to the Federal Government (or in conjunction with the 14th Amendment, do no infringe upon the Rights of the People in the United States Constitution).

But hey, suppose we seriously needed to DELEGATE the Federal Government more powers, due to changing times. What do we do?

The Constitution of the United States, Article V:

"The Congress, whenever two thirds of both Houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose Amendments to this Constitution, or, on the Application of the Legislatures of two thirds of the several States, shall call a Convention for proposing Amendments, which, in either Case, shall be valid to all Intents and Purposes, as Part of this Constitution, when ratified by the Legislatures of three fourths of the several States or by Conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other Mode of Ratification may be proposed by the Congress; Provided that no Amendment which may be made prior to the Year One thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any Manner affect the first and fourth Clauses in the Ninth Section of the first Article; and that no State, without its Consent, shall be deprived of its equal Suffrage in the Senate."

HOT DAMN! Those Libertarians actually can increase the powers of the federal government to accommodate modern times by using the Constitution itself?

So what were you saying?
 
I was saying that Libertarians make some good points. But their philosophy only addresses a small portion of what it takes to run a country. The world would be a better place if every nation on the planet could live in harmony with each other because they were governed by Libertarian ideals. Unfortunately Libertarian ideals do not exist.

Trust me I would love for Libertarianism to work. But if it did it would be happening somewhere by now.
 
Also I don't know how or why you entered the power of the central government into this conversation.
 
Also I don't know how or why you entered the power of the central government into this conversation.

It's also a misread of the Constitution..as always.

The 10th is a "catch all" meant to leave it up to the states to deal with things like policing their citizens or deciding whether or not to have gambling.

And the second wasn't meant to be a "guard" against tyranny, at least not the way they think it is..it was meant to have a decentralized military populated by citizens..and not professional soldiers. Having a standing army of professionals under the control of the federal government was dangerous in the view of many of the founders.
 
Basically.

When folks start throwing "cultural marxism" as being Politically Correct and THEN say they USED to be
"progressive"..the whole thing sort of collapses.
 
Wish there where more young people like you in this nation. Young people able to throw of the yoke of liberalist brainwashing and indoctrination and to start thinking for themselves, no matter which side of the coin they eventually came down on, liberal or Conservsative. As least come there on your own, after carefully studying the situation and the FACTS for yourselves, rather than gulping the kool aid the liberal media and the liberal school system pours down your throats. I'm confident that anyone with half a brain, a work ethic, a sense of Duty, Honor, Country, and a willingness to work hard to get ahead, will come down on the Conservative side of the coin on their own if only they are able to regurgitate the crap fed to them during their days in PS. For those who don't. oh well, every society has it's share of lazy, good for nothing, parasitic dumbasses so some will stay liberal socialists no matter what. With all that said, Christ Matthews? Good grief I can't see how anyone, liberal or conservative, could listen to that moron's babblings for more than 30 seconds without wanting to reach through the TV and smack the stupid out of him
 
I realize that these Progressives are masters, and mean to be masters, and nothing else.


And when you finally realize that the GOP is also?

THEN, my friend, you will finally realize what a freaking mess this nation is really in.
 
The OP is bullshit.

What attracts people to the act of lying about themselves in an anonymous forum such as this?
 
Libertarians make a lot of good points. But their philosophy only addresses a small portion of what it takes to run a country. So eventually all "libertarians" must eventually choose a side between Republicans and Democrats.

libertarians are terrific. randian idiots who try to pass themselves off as "libertarians" are morons.

and the o/p is full of it.

one does not call oneself a 'raving lunatic' months after changing their mind... one does not suddenly pretend that the 2ndamendment is so significant to them that they use it as their mic.

the o/p is a liar.
 
I realize that these Progressives are masters, and mean to be masters, and nothing else.


And when you finally realize that the GOP is also?

THEN, my friend, you will finally realize what a freaking mess this nation is really in.

I consider most of the GOP to be progressives, masquerading as Libertarians. For instance, the GOP assault on the First Amendment, trying to legislate their religion on my fellow citizens (abortion).

The leaders of the GOP honestly couldn't care less about abortion, they are using it to test the ABSTRACT limitations and flexibilities of the first Amendment. Once the the Court finally provides them with the limits/flexibilities that they desire, they'll pass similar laws restricting free speech/assembly/press/internet.

Meanwhile, the Dems will taking your 2nd Amendment away. So the GOP and Dems will COMPROMISE:

GOP: We'll let you take away the 2nd Amendment if you let us take away the first Amendment

Dems: Sure Thing, we control the press anyway!

24 hours later: GOP and Dems having a secret party, since they both exist to accomplish the same thing.
 
and the o/p is full of it.

one does not call oneself a 'raving lunatic' months after changing their mind... one does not suddenly pretend that the 2ndamendment is so significant to them that they use it as their mic.

the o/p is a liar.

I used to back everything Chris Mathews said, would you like some links to my Democratic Underground posts, where I was banned in December?

Also, if you read my OP, I said I ALWAYS REGARDED THE 2ND AMENDMENT IN HIGH ESTEEM, PROVING YOU NEVER READ WHAT I WROTE. Let me quote:

However, no matter how liberal I was brought up, in school, in the media, etc, I ALWAYS KNEW that the 2nd Amendment was to PROTECT YOU FROM TYRANNY, just like EVERY OTHER Amendment.

Now in school, they NEVER taught anything about the 2nd Amendment. However, since they taught us [dogmatically] how the other Amendments protect your from tyranny, I assumed naturally that the 2nd Amendment also did the same, and guns were simply something you didn't discuss in school.

Once the Democrats went into siege mode against the 2nd Amendment, and Chris Matthews led the charge, as did every the MSNBC host, I realized he was simply raving. Everything he said was to promote a socialist agenda, something that cannot be accomplished without taking away our 2nd Amendment, to resist this agenda.

Just pretend, for a moment, that the Democrats took a strong stance against the 1st Amendment, wouldn't that be enough to cause you to radically change "overnight." To me, an attack on the 2nd Amendment was no different.

All during December/early January, I started to discover things by doing research, out of old history textbooks and the internet combined.

In fact I became so poltically active, that I organized a FILIBUSTER at my local town hall:

Planned Islip Town filibuster not needed

This Filibuster was AGAINST the local Republican Party, acting in violation of Artice IX of the New York State Constitution, attempting to nullify the local votes of the Islip residents.

I've come to realize that you must protect your liberty zealously, fanatically at times. I organized over eleven people to filibuster Town Hall to the point of arrest or disorderly conduct. Under no circumstance would we allow the Town Board to seize control of the executive powers of the ELECTED Town Supervisor. The Town Board was forced to adjourn on their power grab (or arrest us all). They choose to adjourn.

As of right now, I've taken a very strong public stance against the Republican Party Boss Frank Tantone, who tried to orchestrate this usurpation of our vote. So hold your horses boy, I'm not a Republican either. I am neither, as far as I'm concerned, both parties want to achieve the same thing, and both are progressive parties.

Also, instead of name calling, why don't you actually try to rebutt my arguments.

And the second wasn't meant to be a "guard" against tyranny.

Allow me to show you our Founding Fathers' thoughts on the 2nd Amendment.

"I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
George Mason
Co-author of the Second Amendment
during Virginia's Convention to Ratify the Constitution, 1788

"A militia, when properly formed, are in fact the people themselves …"
Richard Henry Lee
writing in Letters from the Federal Farmer to the Republic, Letter XVIII, May, 1788.

"The people are not to be disarmed of their weapons. They are left in full posession of them."
Zachariah Johnson
Elliot's Debates, vol. 3 "The Debates in the Several State Conventions on the Adoption of the Federal Constitution."

"… the people are confirmed by the next article in their right to keep and bear their private arms"
Philadelphia Federal Gazette
June 18, 1789, Pg. 2, Col. 2
Article on the Bill of Rights

"And that the said Constitution be never construed to authorize Congress to infringe the just liberty of the Press, or the rights of Conscience; or to prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms; …"
Samuel Adams
quoted in the Philadelphia Independent Gazetteer, August 20, 1789, "Propositions submitted to the Convention of this State"
The Founding Fathers on Arms

"Firearms stand next in importance to the constitution itself. They are the American people's liberty teeth and keystone under independence … from the hour the Pilgrims landed to the present day, events, occurences and tendencies prove that to ensure peace security and happiness, the rifle and pistol are equally indispensable … the very atmosphere of firearms anywhere restrains evil interference — they deserve a place of honor with all that's good."
George Washington
First President of the United States

"The supposed quietude of a good man allures the ruffian; while on the other hand arms, like laws, discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as property. The same balance would be preserved were all the world destitute of arms, for all would be alike; but since some will not, others dare not lay them aside … Horrid mischief would ensue were the law-abiding deprived of the use of them."
Thomas Paine

"To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them."
Richard Henry Lee
American Statesman, 1788

"The great object is that every man be armed." and "Everyone who is able may have a gun."
Patrick Henry
American Patriot

"Are we at last brought to such humiliating and debasing degradation, that we cannot be trusted with arms for our defense? Where is the difference between having our arms in possession and under our direction and having them under the management of Congress? If our defense be the real object of having those arms, in whose hands can they be trusted with more propriety, or equal safety to us, as in our own hands?"
Patrick Henry
American Patriot

"Those who hammer their guns into plowshares will plow for those who do not."
Thomas Jefferson
Third President of the United States

"The constitutions of most of our States assert that all power is inherent in the people; that … it is their right and duty to be at all times armed; … "
Thomas Jefferson
letter to Justice John Cartwright, June 5, 1824. ME 16:45.

"The best we can help for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed."
Alexander Hamilton
The Federalist Papers at 184-8
The Founding Fathers on Maintaining Freedom

"The greatest danger to American freedom is a government that ignores the Constitution."
Thomas Jefferson
Third President of the United States

"There are men in all ages who mean to govern well, but they mean to govern. They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters. "
Noah Webster
American Lexicographer

"The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion."
Edmund Burke
British Statesman, 1784

"What country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance. Let them take arms."
Thomas Jefferson
to James Madison

"They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
Ben Franklin
American Statesman
Later Quotes on Gun Control

"The ruling class doesn't care about public safety. Having made it very difficult for States and localities to police themselves, having left ordinary citizens with no choice but to protect themselves as best they can, they now try to take our guns away. In fact they blame us and our guns for crime. This is so wrong that it cannot be an honest mistake."
Malcolm Wallop
former U.S. Sen. (R-WY)

"An armed man is a citizen. A disarmed man is a subject."
Anon.
Seen on a bumper sticker
Pro Gun Control

"Our main agenda is to have all guns banned. We must use whatever means possible. It doesn't matter if you have to distort the facts or even lie. Our task of creating a socialist America can only succeed when those who would resist us have been totally disarmed."
Sara Brady
Chairman, Handgun Control Inc, to Senator Howard Metzenbaum
The National Educator, January 1994, Page 3.

"If you wish the sympathy of the broad masses, you must tell them the crudest and most stupid things."

"This year will go down in history. For the first time, a civilized nation has full gun registration. Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient, and the world will follow our lead into the future!"
Adolph Hitler
Chancellor, Germany, 1933
 
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Also I don't know how or why you entered the power of the central government into this conversation.

It's also a misread of the Constitution..as always.

The 10th is a "catch all" meant to leave it up to the states to deal with things like policing their citizens or deciding whether or not to have gambling.

And the second wasn't meant to be a "guard" against tyranny, at least not the way they think it is..it was meant to have a decentralized military populated by citizens..and not professional soldiers. Having a standing army of professionals under the control of the federal government was dangerous in the view of many of the founders.
You need remedial comprehension training.
 
I was a liberal back in my youth. I cast my first presidential vote for Jimmy Carter.

I've never been a progressive, nor a Republican. I have been registered Democrat and registered Republican depending on how I wanted to affect the eventual outcome of the primaries, but in ideology, I've been fully neither.

I've been a Libertarian since before I knew there was such a thing. I haven't changed my mind politically since college. I could also be called a classical liberal.
 
I was a liberal back in my youth. I cast my first presidential vote for Jimmy Carter.

I've never been a progressive, nor a Republican. I have been registered Democrat and registered Republican depending on how I wanted to affect the eventual outcome of the primaries, but in ideology, I've been fully neither.

I've been a Libertarian since before I knew there was such a thing. I haven't changed my mind politically since college. I could also be called a classical liberal.

It won't be long before the government pays google and every other major search engine to say that our quotes of the founding fathers and other great leaders are fake. They've already paid them to say every Pro-Gun-Control Nazi quote was fake. They've even gone so far to say that Hitler was "pro-gun" and relaxed gun laws.
 
I was a liberal back in my youth. I cast my first presidential vote for Jimmy Carter.

I've never been a progressive, nor a Republican. I have been registered Democrat and registered Republican depending on how I wanted to affect the eventual outcome of the primaries, but in ideology, I've been fully neither.

I've been a Libertarian since before I knew there was such a thing. I haven't changed my mind politically since college. I could also be called a classical liberal.

It won't be long before the government pays google and every other major search engine to say that our quotes of the founding fathers and other great leaders are fake. They've already paid them to say every Pro-Gun-Control Nazi quote was fake. They've even gone so far to say that Hitler was "pro-gun" and relaxed gun laws.

No. You aren't crazy. Not at all.

You say you are 22 years old?
 
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Also, I highly suggest you cite any sources of information that you attempt to use against me.
 

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