So Republicans, let me get this straight

[Not2BSubjugated]

And you have brought to the table exactly ZERO evidence, backup or support...

ALL you have presented is ...wait for it...

wait for it...

wait for it...

wait for it...

wait for it...

wait for it...

OPINION...

Yes, not unlike Ruth Marcus and David Frum I have indeed given my opinion. Guilty as charged. I'm also guilty of knowing the difference between fact and opinion. Join me.

You are totally obtuse to the facts. It is a FACT Republicans made a collective decision to oppose President Obama on health care reform. Just as David Frum said.

It is a FACT Senator Jim DeMint stated, their intentions: "If we're able to stop Obama on this, it will be his Waterloo. It will break him"

It is a FACT Republicans parroted a script given to them by Frank Luntz to make them sound like they are for reform, but is designed to undermine reform by using lies and fear-mongering.

So as the details of the bill are becoming public as they prep for implementation, how do your facts effect my dislike for those details?

If I hadn't heard some Republicans lying about not liking Obamacare because they really just don't like Obama because he's black, would I agree with the individual mandate?

Before Frank Luntz passed out his evil fear mongering script, was I in favor of the government being in charge of the medical industry?

I guess the most important question I have is, do you have any substantive arguments for Obamacare? Or pretty much just moral finger waving, hyperbole and criticisms of the GOP? Cuz I got plenty fingers, I'm awesome with wordplay, and I could sit here and criticize Republicans until carpal tunnel sets in. Don't really need your help with any of those things.

 

[Bfgrn]

Didn't you say you don't carry insurance?

If so, you don't pay anything for the uninsured patients in the ER. Those of us do pay our own way by paying insurance premiums - We're the ones who pay for your "free" ER care.

This again? ...

Yeah, it's on the talking point hit list for the shills. More stupid head games from propagandists. They think it will appeal to (or at least be confused with) the typical conservative aversion to 'paying for deadbeats'. Nevermind that they support all the laws that make this possible in the first place. If Luddly really has a problem with EMTALA he should join those of us calling for its repeal. But he doesn't. He likes that it sucks us into a corporatist cluster-fuck. That's the whole intent.

What do you call this 'movement'...the 'let 'em die' campaign?

 

[Bfgrn]

Yes, not unlike Ruth Marcus and David Frum I have indeed given my opinion. Guilty as charged. I'm also guilty of knowing the difference between fact and opinion. Join me.

You are totally obtuse to the facts. It is a FACT Republicans made a collective decision to oppose President Obama on health care reform. Just as David Frum said.

It is a FACT Senator Jim DeMint stated, their intentions: "If we're able to stop Obama on this, it will be his Waterloo. It will break him"

It is a FACT Republicans parroted a script given to them by Frank Luntz to make them sound like they are for reform, but is designed to undermine reform by using lies and fear-mongering.

So as the details of the bill are becoming public as they prep for implementation, how do your facts effect my dislike for those details?

If I hadn't heard some Republicans lying about not liking Obamacare because they really just don't like Obama because he's black, would I agree with the individual mandate?

Before Frank Luntz passed out his evil fear mongering script, was I in favor of the government being in charge of the medical industry?

I guess the most important question I have is, do you have any substantive arguments for Obamacare? Or pretty much just moral finger waving, hyperbole and criticisms of the GOP? Cuz I got plenty fingers, I'm awesome with wordplay, and I could sit here and criticize Republicans until carpal tunnel sets in. Don't really need your help with any of those things.

Are you REALLY interested in the truth? Do you REALLY understand what the status quo was all about? Hey, you COULD try a novel approach...invest a half hour and educate yourself... Wendell Potter on Profits Before Patients

OR...
You can stay the way you are...

The choice is yours...

 

[Greenbeard]

I guess the most important question I have is, do you have any substantive arguments for Obamacare? Or pretty much just moral finger waving, hyperbole and criticisms of the GOP? Cuz I got plenty fingers, I'm awesome with wordplay, and I could sit here and criticize Republicans until carpal tunnel sets in. Don't really need your help with any of those things.

Some positives:

• The slowest health care spending growth on record, medical costs registering the first decline since the 1970s, and medical price inflation now at the slowest pace in 50 years (i.e. the bending downward of the cost curve).
• Premiums in the new marketplaces consistently coming in lower than expected
• The number of physicians who take Medicare continuing to grow (735,041 in 2013, compared to 705,568 in 2012)
• Unprecedentedly slow per capita cost growth in the Medicare program
• Continued moderation of premium growth in the group markets in 2013
• More competitive marketplaces than shoppers in the individual insurance market have ever seen
• The real possibility of better than expected enrollment in the new marketplaces
• Unnecessary hospital readmissions dropping as hospitals improve postdischarge support
• Hospitals improving quality under ACA programs, while reining in costs
• ACA programs causing "spillover" savings and quality improvements even for people not participating in them
• Med school applications reaching a record high last year, at the same time as last year's residency match reached a record-high match rate

Just scratching the surface.

 

[Zona]

Obamacare was passed by both houses of Congress
It was signed into law
it was affirmed by the Supreme Court
Republicans lack the votes to repeal it
Even if they did, the President would veto

And yet, they still feel the need to punish America because they didn't get their way

Even Boner said, eh....let it happen.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

I guess the most important question I have is, do you have any substantive arguments for Obamacare? Or pretty much just moral finger waving, hyperbole and criticisms of the GOP? Cuz I got plenty fingers, I'm awesome with wordplay, and I could sit here and criticize Republicans until carpal tunnel sets in. Don't really need your help with any of those things.

Some positives:

• The slowest health care spending growth on record, medical costs registering the first decline since the 1970s, and medical price inflation now at the slowest pace in 50 years (i.e. the bending downward of the cost curve).
• Premiums in the new marketplaces consistently coming in lower than expected
• The number of physicians who take Medicare continuing to grow (735,041 in 2013, compared to 705,568 in 2012)
• Unprecedentedly slow per capita cost growth in the Medicare program
• Continued moderation of premium growth in the group markets in 2013
• More competitive marketplaces than shoppers in the individual insurance market have ever seen
• The real possibility of better than expected enrollment in the new marketplaces
• Unnecessary hospital readmissions dropping as hospitals improve postdischarge support
• Hospitals improving quality under ACA programs, while reining in costs
• ACA programs causing "spillover" savings and quality improvements even for people not participating in them
• Med school applications reaching a record high last year, at the same time as last year's residency match reached a record-high match rate

Just scratching the surface.

And in exchange we have a part-time economy with declining median incomes

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Obamacare was passed by both houses of Congress
It was signed into law
it was affirmed by the Supreme Court
Republicans lack the votes to repeal it
Even if they did, the President would veto

And yet, they still feel the need to punish America because they didn't get their way

The majority voted for Obama

Rightwingers hate the majority that voted for Obama

The riht hates America. They worship and love a nation that doesn't actully exist

 

[JohnL.Burke]

Obamacare was passed by both houses of Congress
It was signed into law
it was affirmed by the Supreme Court
Republicans lack the votes to repeal it
Even if they did, the President would veto

And yet, they still feel the need to punish America because they didn't get their way

The majority voted for Obama

Rightwingers hate the majority that voted for Obama

The riht hates America. They worship and love a nation that doesn't actully exist

LOL! WOW! Rightwingers hate America? Ah well, I guess nobody's perfect.

 

[idb]

Obamacare was passed by both houses of Congress
It was signed into law
it was affirmed by the Supreme Court
Republicans lack the votes to repeal it
Even if they did, the President would veto

And yet, they still feel the need to punish America because they didn't get their way

I can't get my head around this either.
At what point do the opponents acknowledge that the system has done it's job, they didn't get their way, and accept the new reality?
That's what (should) happens in a democracy.
Lawmakers pouring money into undermining a constitutionally enacted law is bizarre.

I've seen plenty of right-wingers write in here that The World (tm) is laughing at the US because of the President or his actions.
The truth is that The World is laughing at these right-wing nuts and their ridiculous views and antics.

This is a more sane legislative chamber than the current congress...
[ame=http://youtu.be/XHMrgwAuJ_U]Korean Parliament Fight 22 July 2009 - YouTube[/ame]

 

[idb]

You are totally obtuse to the facts. It is a FACT Republicans made a collective decision to oppose President Obama on health care reform. Just as David Frum said.

It is a FACT Senator Jim DeMint stated, their intentions: "If we're able to stop Obama on this, it will be his Waterloo. It will break him"

It is a FACT Republicans parroted a script given to them by Frank Luntz to make them sound like they are for reform, but is designed to undermine reform by using lies and fear-mongering.

So as the details of the bill are becoming public as they prep for implementation, how do your facts effect my dislike for those details?

If I hadn't heard some Republicans lying about not liking Obamacare because they really just don't like Obama because he's black, would I agree with the individual mandate?

Before Frank Luntz passed out his evil fear mongering script, was I in favor of the government being in charge of the medical industry?

I guess the most important question I have is, do you have any substantive arguments for Obamacare? Or pretty much just moral finger waving, hyperbole and criticisms of the GOP? Cuz I got plenty fingers, I'm awesome with wordplay, and I could sit here and criticize Republicans until carpal tunnel sets in. Don't really need your help with any of those things.

Are you REALLY interested in the truth? Do you REALLY understand what the status quo was all about? Hey, you COULD try a novel approach...invest a half hour and educate yourself... Wendell Potter on Profits Before Patients

OR...
You can stay the way you are...

The choice is yours...

"Keep Your Damned Government Hands Off My Medicare!"

 

[dblack]

I can't get my head around this either.
At what point do the opponents acknowledge that the system has done it's job, they didn't get their way, and accept the new reality?
That's what (should) happens in a democracy.
Lawmakers pouring money into undermining a constitutionally enacted law is bizarre.

I don't think this is driven by lawmakers. It's driven by the public's sense that ACA is just another bait-and-switch. Congress used a real problem as justification for yet another corporatist swindle. Republicans are doing this because voters are demanding it.

 

[rightwinger]

Obamacare was passed by both houses of Congress
It was signed into law
it was affirmed by the Supreme Court
Republicans lack the votes to repeal it
Even if they did, the President would veto

And yet, they still feel the need to punish America because they didn't get their way

The majority voted for Obama

Rightwingers hate the majority that voted for Obama

The riht hates America. They worship and love a nation that doesn't actully exist

LOL! WOW! Rightwingers hate America? Ah well, I guess nobody's perfect.

They love America.......they just hate Americans

 

[Bern80]

The majority voted for Obama

Rightwingers hate the majority that voted for Obama

The riht hates America. They worship and love a nation that doesn't actully exist

LOL! WOW! Rightwingers hate America? Ah well, I guess nobody's perfect.

They love America.......they just hate Americans

Love the logic. Because we don't think anyone should be forced to pay for anyone's healthcare that means we hate Americans. Again, awesome logic.

 

[BDBoop]

LOL! WOW! Rightwingers hate America? Ah well, I guess nobody's perfect.

They love America.......they just hate Americans

Love the logic. Because we don't think anyone should be forced to pay for anyone's healthcare that means we hate Americans. Again, awesome logic.

You pay for it anyway. You have been for as long as insurance has existed, and people have been uninsured.

 

[rightwinger]

LOL! WOW! Rightwingers hate America? Ah well, I guess nobody's perfect.

They love America.......they just hate Americans

Love the logic. Because we don't think anyone should be forced to pay for anyone's healthcare that means we hate Americans. Again, awesome logic.

No...because Republicans have an attitude of "I got mine....the hell with everyone else"

 

[Bern80]

They love America.......they just hate Americans

Love the logic. Because we don't think anyone should be forced to pay for anyone's healthcare that means we hate Americans. Again, awesome logic.

No...because Republicans have an attitude of "I got mine....the hell with everyone else"

That's pretty much the same thing. You're right. I got mine. Why should I be financially responsible for your too?

 

[Bern80]

They love America.......they just hate Americans

Love the logic. Because we don't think anyone should be forced to pay for anyone's healthcare that means we hate Americans. Again, awesome logic.

You pay for it anyway. You have been for as long as insurance has existed, and people have been uninsured.

And buying insurance previously has also been a choice. That's the difference. I don't get why you insist the rest of us have to pay for those that can't one way or the other. If you can't pay at time of service, work out something you can pay over time.

 

[Camp]

Love the logic. Because we don't think anyone should be forced to pay for anyone's healthcare that means we hate Americans. Again, awesome logic.

You pay for it anyway. You have been for as long as insurance has existed, and people have been uninsured.

And buying insurance previously has also been a choice. That's the difference. I don't get why you insist the rest of us have to pay for those that can't one way or the other. If you can't pay at time of service, work out something you can pay over time.

How do you work something out with someone who hasn't got a pot to piss in but manages to rack up a huge medical bill?

 

[Bern80]

You pay for it anyway. You have been for as long as insurance has existed, and people have been uninsured.

And buying insurance previously has also been a choice. That's the difference. I don't get why you insist the rest of us have to pay for those that can't one way or the other. If you can't pay at time of service, work out something you can pay over time.

How do you work something out with someone who hasn't got a pot to piss in but manages to rack up a huge medical bill?

The short answer is, it's not my problem. The longer answer is negotiate with the hospital directly. You'd be surprised to see how much the cost of services drop when you negotiate directly with them. Take up a collection, work out a payment plan. There are all kinds of options other than this 'well you have to pay for other people anyway'.

 

[Bfgrn]

And buying insurance previously has also been a choice. That's the difference. I don't get why you insist the rest of us have to pay for those that can't one way or the other. If you can't pay at time of service, work out something you can pay over time.

How do you work something out with someone who hasn't got a pot to piss in but manages to rack up a huge medical bill?

The short answer is, it's not my problem. The longer answer is negotiate with the hospital directly. You'd be surprised to see how much the cost of services drop when you negotiate directly with them. Take up a collection, work out a payment plan. There are all kinds of options other than this 'well you have to pay for other people anyway'.

This is not from liberals, this is directly from the source of the individual mandate...the HERITAGE FOUNDATION...

Robert Moffit - The Heritage Foundation senior fellow

Let's let Robert Moffit, who was deputy director of domestic policy studies at The Heritage Foundation back in 1994 explain. Here is what conservatives said when THEY proposed the individual mandate in the leading Senate alternative to the Clinton plan.

The Taxpayer Mandate

Policy analysts at The Heritage Foundation have wrestled incessantly with. this problem, while developing a “consumer choice” plan for comprehensive health system reform, now embodied in a major legislative proposal.3 Only after extensive analysis of the peculiar distortions of the health insurance market did Heritage scholars reluctantly agree to an individual mandate.

On this point, some observations are in order. First, much of the debate over whether we should have a mandate is, in a sense, a debate over a “metaphysical abstraction.” 4 For all practical purposes, we already have a powerful and increasingly oppressive mandate: a mandate on taxpayers.

We all pay for the health care of those who do not pay, in two ways. First, people with private insurance pay through that insurance– even though that insurance is often the property of employers under current law. This reflects the ever-higher costs shifted to offset the billions of dollars of costs of uncompensated care in hospitals, clinics, and physicians’ offices. Second, if those who are uninsured get seriously ill and are forced to spend down their assets to cope with their huge medical bills, their care is paid for, not through employer-based or private insurance premiums, but through taxes, money taken by federal and state tax collectors to fund Medicaid or other public assistance programs that serve the poor or those impoverished because of a serious illness.

Hospitals also have legal obligations to accept and care for those who enter seeking assistance. No responsible public official is proposing repeal of these statutory provisions, and very few physicians, if any, are prepared to deny treatment to persons seeking their help merely because they cannot afford to pay. As taxpayers and subscribers to private health insurance, the American people pick up these bills.

Aside from current economic arrangements, the entire moral and cultural tenor of our society reinforces the taxpayer mandate. Those who are uninsured and cannot pay for their care will be cared for, and those who are insured and working will pay for that care.

So, we already have a mandate. But it is both inefficient and unfair.

3 The Consumer Choice Health Security Act. sponsored by Sen. Don Nickles (R-OK) and Rep. Cliff Steams (R-FL). The bill has twenty-four Senate cosponsors, making it the leading Senate alternative to the Clinton plan. S.M. Butler and E.F. Haislmaier, “The Consumer Choice Health Security Act (S. 1743, H.R. 3698),” Issue Bulletin no. 186 (The Heritage Foundation, December 1993).