So What Do You Think Is A Fair And Decent Wage?...

[gallantwarrior]

I have a question to ask the OP or anyone else.

What price do you think it's worth to take out of your pocket and pay someone to do a job for you?

Would you pay someone 15.00 an hour to rack leaves in your yard?

Funny you ask that. I've offered bums begging money on the street corner $10/hr to come help clean out my barn and sheds. Plus a hot meal. To date, I've had no takers. I've also offered the same to a friend's (unemployed) teen-aged son. No takers, ever. You'd think I'd shit in their Wheaties, offering that kind of money...to shovel manure. To think that cropping tobacco for $5/hr was BIG money for kids when I was growing up...

That was how many decades ago?

Many, many decades.

 

[gallantwarrior]

Funny you ask that. I've offered bums begging money on the street corner $10/hr to come help clean out my barn and sheds. Plus a hot meal. To date, I've had no takers. I've also offered the same to a friend's (unemployed) teen-aged son. No takers, ever. You'd think I'd shit in their Wheaties, offering that kind of money...to shovel manure. To think that cropping tobacco for $5/hr was BIG money for kids when I was growing up...

Five dollars an hour? I also worked in the tobacco fields as early as age 7 I got 100.00 for a whole summer worth of work and loved every minute of it.

Ahhaa the dignity of hard work for low pay.

So you offered to make two of the most unmotivated people (bums and teenage boys) a low wage, hard job and were surprised that they didn't want to work? Why? Mostly it depends on who you ask to work for low pay.

I have recently hired an older, ex con, ex druggie rehabbed guy for clean up work, and he works his ass off for 8 bucks and lunch. He is motivated. Because an ex con can't find a job of any sort.

And a roofer I know has hired from Home Depot and got good work for low pay. The Central American worker is known in the construction field for providing good work with good effort for low pay. That's cause 8 bucks American money in Mexico is a good wage.
They (Mexicans) will do a roofing job for a price a white crew won't want to work for. If you can find a white roofing crew. And do a better job than a cheap white crew will do.

Yes, more bang for your buck from your low paid worker if you are more picky about who you hire.

Mexicans and ex druggie cons are who I recommend. Stay away from bums and teen aged boys. Too unreliable.

Offering someone an opportunity to earn money, as opposed to sitting on a street corner begging is somehow wrong? There was a time when it was so shameful to beg and be without means to support oneself. When we were kids, pre-teens even, we went door-to-door offering to do yardwork for the neighbors for reasonable "wages". We also collected bottles for the return fees. Now it seems more shameful to work a decent day than it does to suck off the government tit.
I'm thinking it's time to make shame fashionable again.

 

[gallantwarrior]

Five dollars an hour? I also worked in the tobacco fields as early as age 7 I got 100.00 for a whole summer worth of work and loved every minute of it.

Ahhaa the dignity of hard work for low pay.

So you offered to make two of the most unmotivated people (bums and teenage boys) a low wage, hard job and were surprised that they didn't want to work? Why? Mostly it depends on who you ask to work for low pay.

I have recently hired an older, ex con, ex druggie rehabbed guy for clean up work, and he works his ass off for 8 bucks and lunch. He is motivated. Because an ex con can't find a job of any sort.

And a roofer I know has hired from Home Depot and got good work for low pay. The Central American worker is known in the construction field for providing good work with good effort for low pay. That's cause 8 bucks American money in Mexico is a good wage.
They (Mexicans) will do a roofing job for a price a white crew won't want to work for. If you can find a white roofing crew. And do a better job than a cheap white crew will do.

Yes, more bang for your buck from your low paid worker if you are more picky about who you hire.

Mexicans and ex druggie cons are who I recommend. Stay away from bums and teen aged boys. Too unreliable.

I have been in construction and we were underbid by Mexican crews, because we paid people what they were worth as did most of the companies I worked around. We were consistently not getting work because of these companies. Not sure if the Mexican companies followed the laws or not but we couldn't match the low labor bids.

What does the guy do for $8 bucks an hour, can't be much.

Best reason to get a handle on invasion by criminal trespassers. They sell themselves cheaply.

 

[BlackSand]

Five dollars an hour? I also worked in the tobacco fields as early as age 7 I got 100.00 for a whole summer worth of work and loved every minute of it.

Ahhaa the dignity of hard work for low pay.

So you offered to make two of the most unmotivated people (bums and teenage boys) a low wage, hard job and were surprised that they didn't want to work? Why? Mostly it depends on who you ask to work for low pay.

I have recently hired an older, ex con, ex druggie rehabbed guy for clean up work, and he works his ass off for 8 bucks and lunch. He is motivated. Because an ex con can't find a job of any sort.

And a roofer I know has hired from Home Depot and got good work for low pay. The Central American worker is known in the construction field for providing good work with good effort for low pay. That's cause 8 bucks American money in Mexico is a good wage.
They (Mexicans) will do a roofing job for a price a white crew won't want to work for. If you can find a white roofing crew. And do a better job than a cheap white crew will do.

Yes, more bang for your buck from your low paid worker if you are more picky about who you hire.

Mexicans and ex druggie cons are who I recommend. Stay away from bums and teen aged boys. Too unreliable.

Offering someone an opportunity to earn money, as opposed to sitting on a street corner begging is somehow wrong? There was a time when it was so shameful to beg and be without means to support oneself. When we were kids, pre-teens even, we went door-to-door offering to do yardwork for the neighbors for reasonable "wages". We also collected bottles for the return fees. Now it seems more shameful to work a decent day than it does to suck off the government tit.
I'm thinking it's time to make shame fashionable again.

If a young kid knocks on my door looking for work ... I will pay them to move my firewood to the other side of the house.
It won't be an easy job ... I will provide gloves if needed, pay $50 for the labor ... And don't give a rat's ass what side of the house the firewood rack is on.

.

 

[gallantwarrior]

Ahhaa the dignity of hard work for low pay.

So you offered to make two of the most unmotivated people (bums and teenage boys) a low wage, hard job and were surprised that they didn't want to work? Why? Mostly it depends on who you ask to work for low pay.

I have recently hired an older, ex con, ex druggie rehabbed guy for clean up work, and he works his ass off for 8 bucks and lunch. He is motivated. Because an ex con can't find a job of any sort.

And a roofer I know has hired from Home Depot and got good work for low pay. The Central American worker is known in the construction field for providing good work with good effort for low pay. That's cause 8 bucks American money in Mexico is a good wage.
They (Mexicans) will do a roofing job for a price a white crew won't want to work for. If you can find a white roofing crew. And do a better job than a cheap white crew will do.

Yes, more bang for your buck from your low paid worker if you are more picky about who you hire.

Mexicans and ex druggie cons are who I recommend. Stay away from bums and teen aged boys. Too unreliable.

Offering someone an opportunity to earn money, as opposed to sitting on a street corner begging is somehow wrong? There was a time when it was so shameful to beg and be without means to support oneself. When we were kids, pre-teens even, we went door-to-door offering to do yardwork for the neighbors for reasonable "wages". We also collected bottles for the return fees. Now it seems more shameful to work a decent day than it does to suck off the government tit.
I'm thinking it's time to make shame fashionable again.

If a young kid knocks on my door looking for work ... I will pay them to move my firewood to the other side of the house.
It won't be an easy job ... I will provide gloves if needed, pay $50 for the labor ... And don't give a rat's ass what side of the house the firewood rack is on.

.

Nowadays, that's a pretty big "IF". Too many youngsters I am acquainted with think they are worth $50k/yr right out of high school.

 

[Noomi]

I think $10 an hour is probably the minimum wage anyone can live on, although it would still be difficult in a one-income family. Keep in mind that if fast food restaurants pay higher wages, it gets passed on to the consumers. More people will stop eating at those establishments, which seem to charge too much for their food already.

People will not stop eating fast food, its addictive and people will always keep coming back, no matter how much it costs.

 

[thereisnospoon]

$10 an hour should be the bare minimum IMO.

Ok..A straight answer. Well done!

 

[thereisnospoon]

At least $35.00 per hour.

After all, if it is a fair and decent wage for a teacher, it should be fair and decent for a kid who flips hamburgers.

I detect a hint of sarcasm. But seriously, give some numbers. How much do you think an average American can survive on?

Depends on where you live. If you make $10/hour and live in the Texas panhandle, you will have a modest but sustainable life style. But if your job is in Manhattan, that won't cover the monthly Metro subway fare to get to and from work.

People in New Jersey who train-in to their jobs in Manhattan pay around $400 a month in public transit fares.

Not to derail the thread but I have a question. Why would a person living in Nyack, NY commute to Manhattan everyday at a cost of $400 or more to work a job paying that person ten dollars per hour?

 

[thereisnospoon]

This isn't remedial mathh class. There is no wage that is fair for the avergae american. The merits of skill, etc, which the market works out, will tell you what a position within a given field will pay as far as wage.

No one person, just like no central planner has the right answer to sucha quesiton. And if they try to manipulate the market forces, it will result in unseen consequences. Such as the fed minimum wage has done for the over 30 years. We alsways need to increase that wage dont we? At the same time, we price workers out of work. Affecting the least skilled and poor the worst of all.

Sorry, dude. It's a dumb question.

Come on, you have to have a number. Put all the Political ideology stuff aside. How much do you personally feel is an appropriate Wage for an average American to survive on? Feel free to take your time and think about it.

The minimum wage ( federal ) is fine where it is now.

 

[Spiderman]

There is no amount that can be quantified.

If my monthly expenses are $2500 then it is up to me to earn enough to meet those expenses.

If the only work I am qualified for pays me $10 an hour then I have to work 250 hours a month.

Another person who makes the same wage might have lower or higher expenses and can therefore work less or more to meet them.

 

[Papageorgio]

Ahhaa the dignity of hard work for low pay.

So you offered to make two of the most unmotivated people (bums and teenage boys) a low wage, hard job and were surprised that they didn't want to work? Why? Mostly it depends on who you ask to work for low pay.

I have recently hired an older, ex con, ex druggie rehabbed guy for clean up work, and he works his ass off for 8 bucks and lunch. He is motivated. Because an ex con can't find a job of any sort.

And a roofer I know has hired from Home Depot and got good work for low pay. The Central American worker is known in the construction field for providing good work with good effort for low pay. That's cause 8 bucks American money in Mexico is a good wage.
They (Mexicans) will do a roofing job for a price a white crew won't want to work for. If you can find a white roofing crew. And do a better job than a cheap white crew will do.

Yes, more bang for your buck from your low paid worker if you are more picky about who you hire.

Mexicans and ex druggie cons are who I recommend. Stay away from bums and teen aged boys. Too unreliable.

I have been in construction and we were underbid by Mexican crews, because we paid people what they were worth as did most of the companies I worked around. We were consistently not getting work because of these companies. Not sure if the Mexican companies followed the laws or not but we couldn't match the low labor bids.

What does the guy do for $8 bucks an hour, can't be much.

8 bucks plus a litte an hour cash. Pay 75 dollars for 7.5 hours, buy lunch, provide transportation, all so the guy could pick up construction debris and feed it to a fire or throw it into a dumpster.

This is a basically unemployable man. Ex con, former druggie, tatted out the ass, no great skills, so forth an so on.

Hypocritical I am (seeing as how I argue higher minimum wage laws) says BDboop. I would have to agree. Somewhat. But the dude that gets the 75 dollars a day that can't find ANY other work. That guy. He still likes me. Wants me to call when I need him.

I paid a guy 150 dollars a day for a one layer tear off of a roof. That's about 18.00 dollars an hour for hard labor on an roof.

I paid an electrician 200 dollars for 6.5 hours of work. That's pretty good money.

I know these number can't be verified. But TRUST ME!!!! Ima telling the truth and the whole truth. I am not a hypocrite. Just CHEAP. And a believer that you get what you pay for. Ex cons for 8 bucks. Electricians for 30.

Can I still keep the rep BD?



BTW, When you get paid cash, add 30% to the gross wage amount to find the equivalent in wages that would have to be paid including tax. For example, you would need over 11 dollars an hour gross to net 8 dollars. There is a big cash economy out there.

So you are hiring illegally and then bitch about businesses being cheap and not honest. I would be willing to bet your worker wouldn't give two shits about you if you didn't give him money. So if the guy gets hurt working for you, he gets screwed, and forget about SS working for you. The guy needs a union.

 

[Papageorgio]

Five dollars an hour? I also worked in the tobacco fields as early as age 7 I got 100.00 for a whole summer worth of work and loved every minute of it.

Ahhaa the dignity of hard work for low pay.

So you offered to make two of the most unmotivated people (bums and teenage boys) a low wage, hard job and were surprised that they didn't want to work? Why? Mostly it depends on who you ask to work for low pay.

I have recently hired an older, ex con, ex druggie rehabbed guy for clean up work, and he works his ass off for 8 bucks and lunch. He is motivated. Because an ex con can't find a job of any sort.

And a roofer I know has hired from Home Depot and got good work for low pay. The Central American worker is known in the construction field for providing good work with good effort for low pay. That's cause 8 bucks American money in Mexico is a good wage.
They (Mexicans) will do a roofing job for a price a white crew won't want to work for. If you can find a white roofing crew. And do a better job than a cheap white crew will do.

Yes, more bang for your buck from your low paid worker if you are more picky about who you hire.

Mexicans and ex druggie cons are who I recommend. Stay away from bums and teen aged boys. Too unreliable.

Offering someone an opportunity to earn money, as opposed to sitting on a street corner begging is somehow wrong? There was a time when it was so shameful to beg and be without means to support oneself. When we were kids, pre-teens even, we went door-to-door offering to do yardwork for the neighbors for reasonable "wages". We also collected bottles for the return fees. Now it seems more shameful to work a decent day than it does to suck off the government tit.
I'm thinking it's time to make shame fashionable again.

Notice it's okay for liberal Democrat to hire under the table @ a measly $8 an hour, but for you to do it, it's wrong. The justification and double standard is mind blowing. Zee sounds like the typical cheapskate liberal hypocrite.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

I think $10 an hour is probably the minimum wage anyone can live on, although it would still be difficult in a one-income family. Keep in mind that if fast food restaurants pay higher wages, it gets passed on to the consumers. More people will stop eating at those establishments, which seem to charge too much for their food already.

It's not about what someone could live off of. minimum wage WAS NOT CREATED to maintain a lifestyle If a person wants more money they'll do something to get that better paying job.

 

[zeke]

Ahhaa the dignity of hard work for low pay.

So you offered to make two of the most unmotivated people (bums and teenage boys) a low wage, hard job and were surprised that they didn't want to work? Why? Mostly it depends on who you ask to work for low pay.

I have recently hired an older, ex con, ex druggie rehabbed guy for clean up work, and he works his ass off for 8 bucks and lunch. He is motivated. Because an ex con can't find a job of any sort.

And a roofer I know has hired from Home Depot and got good work for low pay. The Central American worker is known in the construction field for providing good work with good effort for low pay. That's cause 8 bucks American money in Mexico is a good wage.
They (Mexicans) will do a roofing job for a price a white crew won't want to work for. If you can find a white roofing crew. And do a better job than a cheap white crew will do.

Yes, more bang for your buck from your low paid worker if you are more picky about who you hire.

Mexicans and ex druggie cons are who I recommend. Stay away from bums and teen aged boys. Too unreliable.

Offering someone an opportunity to earn money, as opposed to sitting on a street corner begging is somehow wrong? There was a time when it was so shameful to beg and be without means to support oneself. When we were kids, pre-teens even, we went door-to-door offering to do yardwork for the neighbors for reasonable "wages". We also collected bottles for the return fees. Now it seems more shameful to work a decent day than it does to suck off the government tit.
I'm thinking it's time to make shame fashionable again.

Notice it's okay for liberal Democrat to hire under the table @ a measly $8 an hour, but for you to do it, it's wrong. The justification and double standard is mind blowing. Zee sounds like the typical cheapskate liberal hypocrite.

Lets hope that I have shown myself to not be either a liberal or a Democrat.
I've been saying that for months. I can be as big an asshole or hypocrite as the best of the Repubs.

But I am not making a million dollars a year or even a hundred thousand a year. When I start making that kind of money (a million a year or even 100k) and still pay ex con day labor 8 bucks an hour, then I will agree with all those critics who claim I am a cheap hypocrite.

But tell me, how many of you all employ an ex con doing any work for any amount? Even occasionally.

And not one of you critics mentioned the 18 dollars an hour for roof tear off or the 30 bucks an hour for an electrician.

How come no one mentioned those wages?

But it is heartening to see the outpouring of sympathy from the Repubs for an un employable ex con. Maybe you all are having an epiphany.


BTW It is not "illegal" to hire for cash. There is this little form called a "1099" that allows for both the employer and employee to show wages paid and earned for tax purposes.

 

[BlackSand]

Nowadays, that's a pretty big "IF". Too many youngsters I am acquainted with think they are worth $50k/yr right out of high school.

The problem with society as a whole ... Not just those high school grads ... Is that they no longer look for a way to make what they expect a reality.

I mean a high school grad with no work experience ... And willing to take a 2 week training course ... Can get paid a hell of a lot more than 50k a year.
You may have noticed that there are flashing red lights at the top of cell phone or communications towers ... And in case you are wondering ... Someone climbs those towers and changes the light-bulb when it burns out (at least the older ones).

They are contract labor ... Paid by the foot, not the hour ... And it ain't cheap
They work in teams and trade off ... Because someone is also paid to stand on the ground and watch the other person climb.

A relatively low skilled worker can make $17 an hour ... Driving around in the middle of the night ... Checking and replenishing fluid reservoirs at unmanned oil wells all over the place.
Since they are on the move ... They are provided with a company truck and fuel card ... While travel to and from work costs them nothing.

We have beat initiative out of young people in today's society ... The jobs are there ... If they just have the wherewithal to look.

.

 

[Papageorgio]

Offering someone an opportunity to earn money, as opposed to sitting on a street corner begging is somehow wrong? There was a time when it was so shameful to beg and be without means to support oneself. When we were kids, pre-teens even, we went door-to-door offering to do yardwork for the neighbors for reasonable "wages". We also collected bottles for the return fees. Now it seems more shameful to work a decent day than it does to suck off the government tit.
I'm thinking it's time to make shame fashionable again.

Notice it's okay for liberal Democrat to hire under the table @ a measly $8 an hour, but for you to do it, it's wrong. The justification and double standard is mind blowing. Zee sounds like the typical cheapskate liberal hypocrite.

Lets hope that I have shown myself to not be either a liberal or a Democrat.
I've been saying that for months. I can be as big an asshole or hypocrite as the best of the Repubs.

But I am not making a million dollars a year or even a hundred thousand a year. When I start making that kind of money (a million a year or even 100k) and still pay ex con day labor 8 bucks an hour, then I will agree with all those critics who claim I am a cheap hypocrite.

But tell me, how many of you all employ an ex con doing any work for any amount? Even occasionally.

And not one of you critics mentioned the 18 dollars an hour for roof tear off or the 30 bucks an hour for an electrician.

How come no one mentioned those wages?

But it is heartening to see the outpouring of sympathy from the Repubs for an un employable ex con. Maybe you all are having an epiphany.


BTW It is not "illegal" to hire for cash. There is this little form called a "1099" that allows for both the employer and employee to show wages paid and earned for tax purposes.

The 1099 is allowable in some restricted cases and if the guy is building anything, he is not licensed and that is also illegal, also their a lots of permits and building codes and inspections that have to be followed. I'm also willing to bet he never signed a 1099 as that means it blows your, $8 per hour getting 30% by paying cash to bits. Because a 1099 means that he would have to pay the employer and the employee side of SSI and Medicare, so you would be paying him a lot less, because he has to pay workman's comp, unemployment tax and on and on.

Got to love all the government laws out there that interfere with simple transactions.

I've hired a few ex-cons, payed them more than $8 an hour and did it legally. I haven't needed tear off or an electrician for years. I had a plumber charge me $50 for coming to my house and do 30 minutes of work.

I have ran businesses and it was mid to late 90's that I paid anyone $8 per hour. There was one guy in 2007 or 2008, I started him at $9.50 but three months later I bumped him up. I proved he was worth more.

Today I work for a company, I hired an ex-con he started at $10 an hour, that was April, he is now left, his choice, he is making $14 an hour. So your, idea that ex-cons are unemployable is wrong, you just want cheap, illegal labor.

 

[Foxfyre]

You can hire other self-employed people, including independent contractors, and pay them on 1099's. I have preferred to work that way myself for quite some time now. But the law is VERY specific and very restrictive on who can qualify as self employed or an independent contractor. Except in very limited exceptions, such as real estate agents, if you directly supervise the person or require him/her to work for you exclusively, the person is an employee and you are required to pay all the state and federal taxes associated with that as well as cover him/her with liability and work comp etc. and you issues a W-2, not a 1099, at the end of the year.

Also, when you are operating as a business, you don't have to issue a 1099 to that $50 plumber, but if he does more than, I believe, $500 in work, then you must issue a 1099. That's how the feds try to keep as much labor as possible from being under reported or off the books. There is no minimum for an employee who receives a W-2.

It is no secret why some who do odd jobs for the home owner will charge less if they are paid in cash. You can be sure that money is never reported as income by the worker and, because he she doesn't pay income or self-employment tax on it, he/she nets more by charging less.

But though many--okay most--people who cheat the system don't get caught, the consequences of getting caught trying to cheat the labor laws are quite severe and very costly.

There is no minimum wage requirement for a person who receives a 1099 though. But because the contractor is not causing the employer to incur any of the expenses associated with an employee, the contractor will almost always receive a higher amount than an employee would receive doing the same work. And that too is a 'fair and decent' wage advantageous to both the employer and the worker.

 

[zeke]

Man, this is why I love the Internet.

For days we/us have been talking about how the lowest wage workers should have an increase in the minimum wage. And I have argued in support of that. And I couldn't quite figure out why so many were so adamantly opposed to a small increase in the wage.

Of course many of you have labeled me a liberal Democrat because of my support of a minimum wage increase but also because of other things I've written.

So I make me up a person that is among the very least employable members of our society.
An early middle age, ex con, druggie with no job skills, heavily tatted, can't drive etc.

And I made up the easiest job there is. Picking up construction debris and burning it or throwing it into the dumpster.

And I only paid 8 dollars cash, lunch and a ride to and from.

And I posted my "employer experience with low wage workers". First a real liberal called me out on it. Hypocrite was the word.

Then to my surprise, here comes the ones I think of as the Republicans. Lovers of the cheap wage. I mean taking me to the woodshed for not paying this guy more money. And then I was told in accurate detail how the hated Federal government would get me for this dastardly deed of hiring the ex con "under the table."

Yes I was surprised at the response. I woulda thought that the Democrats would have pounded me for my hypocrisy and cheapness over tax avoidance and labor laws.

I mean it is the Democrats that love them some Federal government. Right?

But it was the Republicans who came down on me.

I guess this goes to show that if we could put partisanship aside for a minute, that the idea of a modest increase in minimum wage is a good idea.

Because all you, Republicans and Democrats alike, seem to agree that 8 bucks an hour just ain't enough for wages, no matter who the employee is and even if the job doesn't require any skill.

It was interesting.

Lunch is over, back to work.

 

[Foxfyre]

To Zeke. . . . .

I am not one of the Republicans who came down on you. $8/hr is a 'fair and decent' wage if that is the amount it is worth to the employer to have construction trash and debris picked up and put into a dumpster.

$5/hr is a 'fair and decent' wage if that is the the amount that it is worth to the employer to have construction trash and debris picked up and put into a dumpster.

$20/hr is a 'fair and decent' wage if that is the amount that it is worth to the employer to have construction trash and debris picked up and put into a dumpster.

$100/hr or more is a 'fair and decent' wage if the construction trash and debris is of the type that requires particular expertise and handling and that is what the employer has to pay to get the work done.

Putting a 'fair and decent' dollar amount on labor, apart from what that labor is worth to the employer, is simply a mythical number that bears no resemblance to reality.

 

[Papageorgio]

Man, this is why I love the Internet.

For days we/us have been talking about how the lowest wage workers should have an increase in the minimum wage. And I have argued in support of that. And I couldn't quite figure out why so many were so adamantly opposed to a small increase in the wage.

Of course many of you have labeled me a liberal Democrat because of my support of a minimum wage increase but also because of other things I've written.

So I make me up a person that is among the very least employable members of our society.
An early middle age, ex con, druggie with no job skills, heavily tatted, can't drive etc.

And I made up the easiest job there is. Picking up construction debris and burning it or throwing it into the dumpster.

And I only paid 8 dollars cash, lunch and a ride to and from.

And I posted my "employer experience with low wage workers". First a real liberal called me out on it. Hypocrite was the word.

Then to my surprise, here comes the ones I think of as the Republicans. Lovers of the cheap wage. I mean taking me to the woodshed for not paying this guy more money. And then I was told in accurate detail how the hated Federal government would get me for this dastardly deed of hiring the ex con "under the table."

Yes I was surprised at the response. I woulda thought that the Democrats would have pounded me for my hypocrisy and cheapness over tax avoidance and labor laws.

I mean it is the Democrats that love them some Federal government. Right?

But it was the Republicans who came down on me.

I guess this goes to show that if we could put partisanship aside for a minute, that the idea of a modest increase in minimum wage is a good idea.

Because all you, Republicans and Democrats alike, seem to agree that 8 bucks an hour just ain't enough for wages, no matter who the employee is and even if the job doesn't require any skill.

It was interesting.

Lunch is over, back to work.

I have to follow laws, as does my employer, then everyone else should follow the same laws. You called your worker unemployable, he is employable, you are just misinformed.

I don't believe in minimum wage laws because they are not enforceable, there are people like yourself that would hire illegals and pay people under the table. That puts you as a direct enemy of those that choose to hire legally. People will pay what a person is worth, people have a choice to take a job or not. It is supply and demand.

I keep our business legal and honest, your dishonesty has no business in my world.