So What Do You Think Is A Fair And Decent Wage?...

[BDBoop]

So you're not really going for fair and decent, at $4.04. You're just - dunno. Pissed that anybody is having this conversation at all, it would seem.

 

[gallantwarrior]

So you're not really going for fair and decent, at $4.04. You're just - dunno. Pissed that anybody is having this conversation at all, it would seem.

Honey, that has to be decent. That's just about what a PVT/E1 with a family makes, counting base pay and allowances. If it's good enough for the troops, it damned well is enough for anybody else just starting out in the workforce.
Are you willing to support increased defense spending in order to pay the kid who defends your right to bark like a dog a decent living wage?

 

[Defiant1]

Just curious. I'm really interested in hearing what you all consider a fair & decent Wage. I'd like to get some straight-forward answers without the Political debates and diatribes. I'm only interested in the numbers. Just list the numbers you think an average American should be able to survive on. I think it's a very interesting and important question. It should be fascinating in terms of numbers, seeing what Americans think an average American can or should be able to survive on. Thanks all for your participation.

Numbers can vary greatly between regions, urban vs. rural, that kind of difference. I would say a fair wage is what one man agrees to accept as compensation for his/her labor, skills, or experience. If McDonalds refuses to pay what someone considers "fair and decent wages", they should not accept employment there. If enough people refuse to work for an employer offering what they consider sub-standard wages, then eventually, better wages would be offered.

Or they'll turn to Government assistance. Which is what we're seeing now, more than ever. In fact, McDonalds now even instructs new-hires on going to Government Websites to sign up for Entitlements.

No employer, including McDonalds is responsible for the bad choices a person may make in their life.

Yet, somehow offering a person compensation for work and providing additional advisory resources makes them the bad guy.

 

[paulitician]

OK, here's a dollar amount: an acceptable and decent minimum wage for someone with a family would be $4.04 an hour.

$4.04 an hr. Thanks.

 

[BDBoop]

So you're not really going for fair and decent, at $4.04. You're just - dunno. Pissed that anybody is having this conversation at all, it would seem.

Honey, that has to be decent. That's just about what a PVT/E1 with a family makes, counting base pay and allowances. If it's good enough for the troops, it damned well is enough for anybody else just starting out in the workforce.
Are you willing to support increased defense spending in order to pay the kid who defends your right to bark like a dog a decent living wage?

Counting base pay and allowances? Or excluding.

No wonder they're on food stamps.

We don't need to increase defense spending. We just need to get the funds to the troops, instead of defense contracts to better enrich the rich.

 

[paulitician]

Seriously though, lets not let the thread get bogged down with Political argument. Just some numbers on how much you feel an average American can survive on in today's America. I know it's a very difficult question. So take some time to think about it before posting. There are many factors to be considered. Such as Gas Prices, Food Prices, Rents/Mortgages etc etc...

 

[gallantwarrior]

So you're not really going for fair and decent, at $4.04. You're just - dunno. Pissed that anybody is having this conversation at all, it would seem.

Honey, that has to be decent. That's just about what a PVT/E1 with a family makes, counting base pay and allowances. If it's good enough for the troops, it damned well is enough for anybody else just starting out in the workforce.
Are you willing to support increased defense spending in order to pay the kid who defends your right to bark like a dog a decent living wage?

Counting base pay and allowances? Or excluding.

No wonder they're on food stamps.

We don't need to increase defense spending. We just need to get the funds to the troops, instead of defense contracts to better enrich the rich.

"Counting" as in "including", yes. And these kids should never be put into the shameful position of having to beg the government to subsidize such paltry remuneration for their lives.
We aren't discussing defense contractors here, but start yourself a thread and I'll come visit.

 

[Foxfyre]

Numbers can vary greatly between regions, urban vs. rural, that kind of difference. I would say a fair wage is what one man agrees to accept as compensation for his/her labor, skills, or experience. If McDonalds refuses to pay what someone considers "fair and decent wages", they should not accept employment there. If enough people refuse to work for an employer offering what they consider sub-standard wages, then eventually, better wages would be offered.

Or they'll turn to Government assistance. Which is what we're seeing now, more than ever. In fact, McDonalds now even instructs new-hires on going to Government Websites to sign up for Entitlements.

No employer, including McDonalds is responsible for the bad choices a person may make in their life.

Yet, somehow offering a person compensation for work and providing additional advisory resources makes them the bad guy.

Absolutely. I married a guy who got transferred a LOT and early on in our marriage we agreed that we would focus on advancing his career as the best choice for both of us. So I had to start over many times in entry level low paying jobs. I never had to stay there though. I either made myself valuable enough to my employer that he was willing to pay a whole lot more to keep me - or - I could use that job as the stepping stone to a much better one. The person who is employed is far more employable and attractive to an employer than is the person who is out of work.

So in town after town after town I started at the bottom. And by the time we left, I was working for decent pay in a job I loved.

There is nothing like a low paying dead end job to provide incentive for a person to do whatever he or she needs to do to improve that situation. But make the minimum wage suficiently high or generously subsidize it, and you remove the incentive for many people to take the initiative to qualify for something better.

And in my view of the world, that is not productive or compassionate.

But I grew up with the idea that a living wage was something to aspire to, to qualify for, to merit, and it was whatever my abilities, creativity, and initiative could merit.

It was not something the world owes me just because I was born.

 

[BDBoop]

Honey, that has to be decent. That's just about what a PVT/E1 with a family makes, counting base pay and allowances. If it's good enough for the troops, it damned well is enough for anybody else just starting out in the workforce.
Are you willing to support increased defense spending in order to pay the kid who defends your right to bark like a dog a decent living wage?

Counting base pay and allowances? Or excluding.

No wonder they're on food stamps.

We don't need to increase defense spending. We just need to get the funds to the troops, instead of defense contracts to better enrich the rich.

"Counting" as in "including", yes. And these kids should never be put into the shameful position of having to beg the government to subsidize such paltry remuneration for their lives.
We aren't discussing defense contractors here, but start yourself a thread and I'll come visit.

Oh, the bolded was a rhetorical question? Sorry, I had no idea. I wouldn't have answered had I known.

 

[paulitician]

This thread isn't about Political Ideology. I don't care if you're a Conservative or a Communist. That's a different discussion for a different thread. I'm just interested in what people think is a humane/survivable Wage in today's America. I just think it's fascinating observing the different takes on the question.

 

[Foxfyre]

This thread isn't about Political Ideology. I don't care if you're a Conservative or a Communist. That's a different discussion for a different thread. I'm just interested in what people think is a humane/survivable Wage in today's America. I just think it's fascinating observing the different takes on the question.

I agree. And I have been trying to religiously avoid partisanship, politics, and ideology. But shall we depart the thread if we can't provide a number? How do you discuss what is a fair and decent wage without at least considering the concepts that go into that? At least for those of us who see a fair and decent wage as something other than a number?

 

[paulitician]

This thread isn't about Political Ideology. I don't care if you're a Conservative or a Communist. That's a different discussion for a different thread. I'm just interested in what people think is a humane/survivable Wage in today's America. I just think it's fascinating observing the different takes on the question.

I agree. And I have been trying to religiously avoid partisanship, politics, and ideology. But shall we depart the thread if we can't provide a number? How do you discuss what is a fair and decent wage without at least considering the concepts that go into that? At least for those of us who see a fair and decent wage as something other than a number?

It's a tough one. But i'm trying to stick to numbers. Survival in America is only about the numbers. Does a person have the sufficient funds to get by or not? That's all it comes down to. Politics doesn't matter. People do what they do to survive.

I'm just looking for a round-about Wage most would consider humane and feasible. I realize most Americans could care less about the question. In fact, i would say most don't want the question asked at all. But i asked it anyway. So far the numbers range from $4 an hr to $12 an hr. But $12 an hr. seems to be the most frequent number thrown out there. But we'll see where it heads. Hopefully, more Posters will take part in the discussion.

 

[Spiderman]

There is no number.

One person may live on Ramen noodles and share an apartment with 6 people to keep his costs down

Another might make the same amount and have 2 smart phones and eat out every day.

There is no set cost of living. There is no set number of expenses. Therefore there is no number.

If some guy making minimum wage can buy a pack of smokes everyday he has no right to whine that he can't pay his bills.

Where in this elusive equation you are trying to solve does personal responsibility count?

 

[Avatar4321]

The most an employer is willing to pay me for my services.

 

[paulitician]

The most an employer is willing to pay me for my services.

In terms of numbers, what's your personal feeling on how much is fair & decent?

 

[eflatminor]

In terms of numbers, what's your personal feeling on how much is fair & decent?

Whatever the employer is willing to pay and the employee is willing to accept. Whatever that number is, it is ABSOLUTELY fair and if agreed to voluntarily, decent.

Does that do it for you?

 

[paulitician]

In terms of numbers, what's your personal feeling on how much is fair & decent?

Whatever the employer is willing to pay and the employee is willing to accept. Whatever that number is, it is ABSOLUTELY fair and if agreed to voluntarily, decent.

Does that do it for you?

Well, i was hoping to get a number from you. How much do you personally feel an average American should be able to get by on? Take your time and think about it. I know it's a very difficult question. So many factors to contemplate. Just give what you believe to be a round-about number average Americans should be able to survive on. Thanks.

 

[Spiderman]

In terms of numbers, what's your personal feeling on how much is fair & decent?

Whatever the employer is willing to pay and the employee is willing to accept. Whatever that number is, it is ABSOLUTELY fair and if agreed to voluntarily, decent.

Does that do it for you?

Well, i was hoping to get a number from you. How much do you personally feel an average American should be able to get by on? Take your time and think about it. I know it's a very difficult question. So many factors to contemplate. Just give what you believe to be a round-about number average Americans should be able to survive on. Thanks.

Who is "the average American"?

As I said before there is no answer to that question because there are too many variables.

Do you think that a person who says he can't afford food should be buying cigarettes or have an expensive cell phone? Should he be eating out? Should he have more than one pair of shoes? Should he have cable?

Should he share an apartment or live in alone?

Should he have a car?

So tell me what do you call average?

Why is it that one "average " American will work 2 or three jobs to pay his bills while another "average" American will only work 32 hours a week at McDonalds staying at entry level for 15 years and then apply for the government dole to supplement his income?

 

[eflatminor]

In terms of numbers, what's your personal feeling on how much is fair & decent?

Whatever the employer is willing to pay and the employee is willing to accept. Whatever that number is, it is ABSOLUTELY fair and if agreed to voluntarily, decent.

Does that do it for you?

Well, i was hoping to get a number from you.

Not possible...which is my point really.

How much do you personally feel an average American should be able to get by on?

Depends entirely on each individual. The average would simply be the the middle point for all those individual decisions.

Take your time and think about it. I know it's a very difficult question. So many factors to contemplate. Just give what you believe to be a round-about number average Americans should be able to survive on. Thanks.

The problem with your request is "should be". I do not, nor does anyone else, have the understanding to know what another person "should" be able to survive on. Again, it depends entirely on that individual, his expenses, his choices, his lifestyle.

There are people that live entirely off the land with no income at all. That's extreme of course, but they survive, which serves to demonstrate the futility of establishing an average. It serves no purpose. It means nothing. Only the individual's requirements matter.

 

[gallantwarrior]

This thread isn't about Political Ideology. I don't care if you're a Conservative or a Communist. That's a different discussion for a different thread. I'm just interested in what people think is a humane/survivable Wage in today's America. I just think it's fascinating observing the different takes on the question.

Excuse me, I think I gave a reasonable number and explained clearly why I think that is a proper amount to pay an entry-level worker, with family. If that pay is good enough for some poor kid who puts his life on the line, leaving his young family to pretty much fend for itself (other than financial support), then that amount is damned well enough for some snot-nosed, burger-flipper, ditch-digger, or trash-picker. And NO public assistance shall exceed that amount. Let those welfare queens and lazy n'er-do-wells learn to live on less or better themselves for more.