So What Do You Think Is A Fair And Decent Wage?...

[kaz]

Fair wage should be whatever your labor or service is worth.

Therefore, minimum wage should be zero.

I fired two people at my business earlier this year who when they left, the work for everyone around them got easier. Maybe 0 is too high...

Different discussion entirely.

Yes, I thought it was clearly tongue in cheek regarding "worth." The reality is 0 was correct, it was my job to fire them. I did my job. They worked in my customer service department. I inherited them in an acquisition a couple years ago. I was prepared to hire replacements if necessary, but they were so bad I wanted to wait and see. It was their co-workers who were like wow, this is easier now...

Why do you respond to that and not all the questions I keep asking you about your question?

 

[Wolfsister77]

Fair and decent/survivable differs greatly depending on the type of job, where you live, if you have a family to support, etc.

It is a tough question to just give a simple answer to.

But since you want just a number, I'll go with $12/hr which would work well for some and not so well for others but is the bare minimum, on average, for a person to get by in this country with no kids to support. On average because in some places you need more, in some less. That's really the best answer I can give.

 

[kaz]

Fair wage should be whatever your labor or service is worth.

Therefore, minimum wage should be zero.

I fired two people at my business earlier this year who when they left, the work for everyone around them got easier. Maybe 0 is too high...

Now you can say to your workers: "If you think you work too hard, I'll bring them back."

That is a good idea...

 

[Callas_Dowboys]

It's cool, you don't want to put your own personal number out there. I was just curious about how many Americans feel about fair & decent/survivable Wages. I'm trying to get some sort of round-about figure out of em.

It's not that I don't want to put my own personal number out there. You're just asking a question that doesn't have one answer and, I've only just joined this forum but, I assume you're doing that deliberately. "Fair" varies on the job being done.

Yes, I'm pretty sure you can be sure Paulition is doing it deliberately and in a very shrewd calculating manner. You notice the liberals have pretty much dropped out of the discussion at this point because they can't defend a number any more than the rest of us can; but to continue with the discussion they will be challenged on the AMOUNT that the mythical 'living wage' has to be.

And welcome to USMB. We hope your experience is reasonably productive if not always pleasant. I think you're going to fit in here just fine.

Thanks for the welcome.

 

[kaz]

So what kind of Wage in terms of numbers, do you personally feel an average American can survive on? I'm being specific. Just looking for your numbers. It's just a question. You're not on trial. All answers are acceptable in this thread.

I understand it's not a trap, and we agree on most things, I'm not against your intent. I'm just telling you that your question is too vague to answer. I've asked you a bunch of questions about what you mean and you haven't answered them either.

How people value their time and what their needs are is up to them, not me. My daughter graduated Duke and worked for me at the family business for only ballet lessons and some clothes over the summer until she started her job, which is in France for the winter. You could look at it as paying me back for an expensive education which I paid entirely, but she also had no expenses as she lived at home. She was also my personal assistant and gained incredible experience while really helping me with some of the hard to do tasks on my long term to do list.

Exactly how do you measure that? Everyone's situation is different, everyone's expectations are different. Even if there is no wrong answer, how can I create a right answer for anyone else? I could personally work at a gas station and live in a trailer and be perfectly happy. I won't work for free and obviously I earn a lot of money, but I don't do it because I need a lot of money to be happy. I don't even know how to measure it for myself other than to say it's my expectation is that I'm paid fairly for how much of my life I put into it.

It's a very difficult question. I understand that. I'm just looking for personal feelings on what kind of Wage would be deemed fair and survivable. For instance, will $5 an hr get an average American by without turning to Government assistance? Will $6? Will $12?

Since socialists are now over half the country, the median American is now a socialist or at least programmed by socialists. So to that question, the answer is that no amount of money will stop them from going to government for handouts.

 

[paulitician]

Currently, thanks to the shitty economy, my husband and I qualify for food stamps or other assistance. But because we have no debts other than a small mortgage, and because we have learned to live frugally, we do not take any public assistance and live quite comfortably on a very modest income. We do not expect anybody else to provide us with more than we have.

Our kids each pay more in taxes than what we live on and they would not be happy managing on our income because they like to do much more expensive things than we ever do.

Which is why I say it is all relative. And you can't put a number on it and that is why I say there is no such thing as a 'living wage'.

A living income is not what it costs to pay a mortgage, pay utility bills, buy groceries, etc. A living income is what we have to have to live. The person who bands together with others to share rent, food costs, transportation, etc. can get by on far less money than can the person who chooses the luxury of living alone or in a single family home with his/her family, etc.

I do hear ya and thanks. But it's still possible to estimate a round-about figure. Many life factors have to be contemplated though. Such as Gas Prices, Food Prices, Rents/Mortgages etc etc... It's not an easy question. I just think it's fascinating observing what many Americans think is a survivable Wage. But sadly, so many won't even dare contemplate it. Because numbers tell the story. It's not about Politics. You can either pay a Rent/Mortgage, Electricity Bill, Food & Gas, or you can't. It's only about the numbers. That's why i'm asking people to put a number on it.

No, it isn't possible to estimate a round-about figure. If I go to live with my kids, I need O wages.

If I choose to live by myself with the same expenses we currently have, I can get by on that $10/hour or so. If I take in a roommate who pays half the expenses, I would need $5/hour. If I took in two boarders, I could cut back significantly on my hours. And I live in a pretty nice house in a pleasant neighborhood. If I took an efficiency apartment someplace, I could probably live by myself on less money than it requires me to live in our present home.

But the thing is, I have skills and expertise that can command a very nice wage when I am working. So I could work 10 hours a week or less and earn at least as much as my retirement income. So that has to be factored into the number you are seeking too.

But what about the Millions of Americans who can't survive on $5 an hr? What do you do with them?

 

[ScreamingEagle]

Yes, but what is the Wage most average Americans can survive on. How much? What are your own personal feelings on the numbers. What does it take for an average American to survive in today's America? Is $4 an hr gonna cut it? Is $7? Is $10? What's your estimated numbers? Exclude Government Entitlements from the equation. What in your opinion, is an acceptable/survivable Wage for average Americans?

today the median household income is approx. $50,000/yr.....

if you have 2 income earners each $25,000 (40 hrs/wk-52wks) this equates to $12/hr each person....

 

[paulitician]

Yes, but what is the Wage most average Americans can survive on. How much? What are your own personal feelings on the numbers. What does it take for an average American to survive in today's America? Is $4 an hr gonna cut it? Is $7? Is $10? What's your estimated numbers? Exclude Government Entitlements from the equation. What in your opinion, is an acceptable/survivable Wage for average Americans?

today the median household income is approx. $50,000/yr.....

if you have 2 income earners each $25,000 (40 hrs/wk-52wks) this equates to $12/hr each person....

So you believe $12 an hr is an adequate Wage for most average Americans? Interesting. Thank you.

 

[PredFan]

Well, that doesn't really answer the question. Too vague. How much do you personally feel is a survivable Wage in America today? Just some numbers.

You asked "What do I think is a fair and decent wage. I answered the question. What the market dictates IS a fair and decent wage. It is the fairest of all, as it is not based on biases that are human failings such as sex, or color, or creed.

If someone thinks it is not a decent wage then they should get a job that pays what they think is decent.

Ok, so what kind of Wage do you personally feel is fair and decent? Give a round-about figure.

For what profession?

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

"So What Do You Think Is A Fair And Decent Wage?"...

The amount an employer can afford to pay, and what an employee agrees to work for.

I don't think "afford" should be a factor. I can afford a new Harley but that doesn't mean I should buy one.

A fair wage only has one definition that matters. And that is the wage the employee AGREES to work for.

Liberals and politicians need to stay the fuck out of my business. Period

 

[paulitician]

You asked "What do I think is a fair and decent wage. I answered the question. What the market dictates IS a fair and decent wage. It is the fairest of all, as it is not based on biases that are human failings such as sex, or color, or creed.

If someone thinks it is not a decent wage then they should get a job that pays what they think is decent.

Ok, so what kind of Wage do you personally feel is fair and decent? Give a round-about figure.

For what profession?

In general terms. What Wage do you personally feel an average American can get by on? Just an estimated number.

 

[Desperado]

Another thing is that pay should not be based on the size of your family, but rather the skill set that you offer the employer.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

As to the OP incomes vary by region because cost of living varies by region. So while someone can survive on 10 bucks in bfe that same person would be dead poor in say new york. For that reason this discussion is pointless. DC's idea of a one size fits all shows just how incompetent they are

 

[Foxfyre]

I do hear ya and thanks. But it's still possible to estimate a round-about figure. Many life factors have to be contemplated though. Such as Gas Prices, Food Prices, Rents/Mortgages etc etc... It's not an easy question. I just think it's fascinating observing what many Americans think is a survivable Wage. But sadly, so many won't even dare contemplate it. Because numbers tell the story. It's not about Politics. You can either pay a Rent/Mortgage, Electricity Bill, Food & Gas, or you can't. It's only about the numbers. That's why i'm asking people to put a number on it.

No, it isn't possible to estimate a round-about figure. If I go to live with my kids, I need O wages.

If I choose to live by myself with the same expenses we currently have, I can get by on that $10/hour or so. If I take in a roommate who pays half the expenses, I would need $5/hour. If I took in two boarders, I could cut back significantly on my hours. And I live in a pretty nice house in a pleasant neighborhood. If I took an efficiency apartment someplace, I could probably live by myself on less money than it requires me to live in our present home.

But the thing is, I have skills and expertise that can command a very nice wage when I am working. So I could work 10 hours a week or less and earn at least as much as my retirement income. So that has to be factored into the number you are seeking too.

But what about the Millions of Americans who can't survive on $5 an hr? What do you do with them?

The point is, that those millions of Americans probably CAN survive on $5/hour - IF - they live with their parents or live with their kids or reasonable facsimile or IF they move in with other people to share expenses. They may not be able to live a lifestyle that they would prefer and may have to make do with conditions they don't much appreciate, but they CAN live.

In other words my current modest income in no way covers all my wishes and wants, but it covers all of my current needs. If I took in boarders who did nothing but share expenses I could live on much less. And if I went to live with my kids I could live on zero because they would support me.

 

[Ame®icano]

You asked "What do I think is a fair and decent wage. I answered the question. What the market dictates IS a fair and decent wage. It is the fairest of all, as it is not based on biases that are human failings such as sex, or color, or creed.

If someone thinks it is not a decent wage then they should get a job that pays what they think is decent.

Ok, so what kind of Wage do you personally feel is fair and decent? Give a round-about figure.

For what profession?

Artist. Painter. Hasn't done anything to catch an eye, but looks promising. Not his art, him.

Scientist. Horologist, precisely.

Shepard. Or should we call him Dairy Herd Manager.

Pick one.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

Yes, but what is the Wage most average Americans can survive on. How much? What are your own personal feelings on the numbers. What does it take for an average American to survive in today's America? Is $4 an hr gonna cut it? Is $7? Is $10? What's your estimated numbers? Exclude Government Entitlements from the equation. What in your opinion, is an acceptable/survivable Wage for average Americans?

today the median household income is approx. $50,000/yr.....

if you have 2 income earners each $25,000 (40 hrs/wk-52wks) this equates to $12/hr each person....

So you believe $12 an hr is an adequate Wage for most average Americans? Interesting. Thank you.

nope....i'm not saying that.....i wouldn't presume to say what is "adequate" for anybody....

i'm just giving you the facts and figures...

 

[Jackson]

At least $35.00 per hour.

After all, if it is a fair and decent wage for a teacher, it should be fair and decent for a kid who flips hamburgers.

You equate teachers and hamburger flippers? You work at McDonalds, don't you?

Interesting how an otherwise smart person can not see sarcasm.

Both of us were being sarcastic...lol

 

[eflatminor]

Just curious. I'm really interested in hearing what you all consider a fair & decent Wage.

Whatever a person is willing to work for that an employer is willing to pay. A meeting of the minds on a voluntary basis...go figure.

Yes, but what is the Wage most average Americans can survive on. How much?

"Most average Americans" is beside the point. What a PERSON can live on depends entirely on that individual's expenses, living situation, total revenue, etc. For instance, a teenager that has his parents picking up the tab on all his living expenses may require a wage FAR less than someone trying to raise a family. Similarly, someone that lives in a small apartment with several roommates needs less to pay the rent than the guy with a big mortgage. The point is, it's an INDIVIDUAL decision as to what represents a "survivable" wage.

What are your own personal feelings on the numbers. What does it take for an average American to survive in today's America? Is $4 an hr gonna cut it? Is $7? Is $10? What's your estimated numbers? Exclude Government Entitlements from the equation. What in your opinion, is an acceptable/survivable Wage for average Americans?

Impossible to put a number on it. Some people are willing to work for free and they survive just fine. We call them interns. They get valuable experience in exchange for their labor. A great deal for some, not for others.

There should be no minimum wage federally or at the state/local level. Not only does that centrally planned approach violate the idea of individual liberty and voluntary choice, it is MOST harmful to the most vulnerable people in our society. It is a shameful, harmful practice that must end.

 

[Contumacious]

Lets not let the thread become mired in Political debate and diatribes. Try to think about it for a bit and then attempt to put some numbers out there..

Let 's see if I can contribute to your thread.

I need to make enough to defray the costs of the welfare-warfare state.

I need to pay for the Iraq, AfPak wars, and the possible invasion of Syria, Lebanon and Iran.

I need to pay for the 50% of Americans who are receiving handouts.

There are approximately 232,000,000 adults. 50% are on the dole.

so there are 116,000,000 producers.

the national debt is 17 trillion .

So I need to make $146,551.00 just to pay federal taxes.

I need to make close to $100.00 hour.

Did that help?

.

It's all about politics.

.

 

[paulitician]

Fair and decent/survivable differs greatly depending on the type of job, where you live, if you have a family to support, etc.

It is a tough question to just give a simple answer to.

But since you want just a number, I'll go with $12/hr which would work well for some and not so well for others but is the bare minimum, on average, for a person to get by in this country with no kids to support. On average because in some places you need more, in some less. That's really the best answer I can give.

I know it's a difficult question. I really do appreciate you taking a stab at a number. It's not about you being right or wrong. In your estimation, $12 an hr is an adequate Wage for most Americans to get by. Thank you.