So What Do You Think Is A Fair And Decent Wage?...

[saar331]

thats right

 

[kaz]

"So What Do You Think Is A Fair And Decent Wage?"...

The amount an employer can afford to pay, and what an employee agrees to work for.

That's what I said. You just said it a lot more succinctly.

That doesn't really answer the question. It's too vague. I'm looking for personal feelings on how much is a survivable Wage in today's America. I'm looking for numbers.

A "survivable" wage and "fair and decent" wage are entirely different questions.

A fair and decent wage is the best wage for the best job that an employee free to chose can get in a free market place.

A "survivable" wage is entirely subjective as it varies from person to person and situation to situation. Teenagers for example would often have a survivable wage need of zero, but they aren't going to work for that. Whether a worker is married, whether they have kids, whether their spouse works, where they live, what kind of car they drive, is not the problem of the employer.

 

[paulitician]

A number is not feasible. $10/hour in a small west Texas town is a handsome sum indeed. You can't park your car for $10 in San Francisco.

But ultimately, a wage is worth as much to an employer as will produce a sufficient profit for that employer. A person who does nothing but put pepperoni slices on a pizza on an assembly line or who picks up the trash at a construction site, and who is not qualified for anything other than that, will often be happy to get $5 or $6 in wages. Most such people live with others and do not have to fully support themselves and manage nicely on what to many of us would be pocket change.

But people will pay only so much for a crappy frozen pizza. Make that pizza more expensive than people are willing to pay, and the manufacturer will close down that product line. And then the assembly line worker no longer has a job at all.

Make the wage so high that the contractor will not take on the expense of an extra clean up or go-fer emplyee, and the contractor will just eliminate the job and have his regular crew spend a few minutes doing that work. And the entry-level employer is left high and dry.

A wage should be a contracted amount between the worker and an employer. In a free market system, the employer bids as much as he can afford to get the best people who will help his business prosper; the worker sells his labor to the highest bidder. But price the labor out of the free market range and the result will be many more people unemployed and on public assistance.

People who don't like being stuck in low wage jobs do what they have to do to make their labor more valuable. Meanwhile the bottom rungs of the labor pool are available for those who just want pocket change or who need an opportunity to acquire a work ethic, skills, references, and make themselves worth more money to an employer.

Instead of trying to fix low wages with a higher minimum wage, we do the people a far greater service with a healthy and thriving free market economy that produces full employment. That one thing makes the workers labor more valuable and worth more money.

I hear ya, but i'm more interested in your personal feelings. How much do you think is a survivable Wage for most average Americans? You can calculate your numbers based on a single person or a Family. Either one is fine. Thanks.

Currently, thanks to the shitty economy, my husband and I qualify for food stamps or other assistance. But because we have no debts other than a small mortgage, and because we have learned to live frugally, we do not take any public assistance and live quite comfortably on a very modest income. We do not expect anybody else to provide us with more than we have.

Our kids each pay more in taxes than what we live on and they would not be happy managing on our income because they like to do much more expensive things than we ever do.

Which is why I say it is all relative. And you can't put a number on it and that is why I say there is no such thing as a 'living wage'.

A living income is not what it costs to pay a mortgage, pay utility bills, buy groceries, etc. A living income is what we have to have to live. The person who bands together with others to share rent, food costs, transportation, etc. can get by on far less money than can the person who chooses the luxury of living alone or in a single family home with his/her family, etc.

I do hear ya and thanks. But it's still possible to estimate a round-about figure. Many life factors have to be contemplated though. Such as Gas Prices, Food Prices, Rents/Mortgages etc etc... It's not an easy question. I just think it's fascinating observing what many Americans think is a survivable Wage. But sadly, so many won't even dare contemplate it. Because numbers tell the story. It's not about Politics. You can either pay a Rent/Mortgage, Electricity Bill, Food & Gas, or you can't. It's only about the numbers. That's why i'm asking people to put a number on it.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

Lets not let the thread become mired in Political debate and diatribes. Try to think about it for a bit and then attempt to put some numbers out there. How much do you personally feel an average American should be able to survive on? This question will require some thought. There are many life factors to contemplate. So don't feel a need to rush in to type the usual Political rants. Just some numbers.

the answer to your question is very subjective....

an individual who lives at home with his parents might only need a part-time $5/hr job to support his hobbies....while another might need a full-time $500k/yr job to support a big family and expensive tastes....

unlike lefties who want to put everyone into a straight-jacket......Americans are a diverse group of individuals who have many different opinons....

 

[kaz]

$10 an hour should be the bare minimum IMO.

And you think people not worth $10 an hour should be legally banned by government from working because why? Your love of people and freedom?

How did you get from his suggestion to your conclusion? This should be fascinating.

My assumption that his "bare minimum" wage was what he'd propose the Federal minimum wage should be.

You obviously knew what my assumption was, stop playing dumb. I mean wow, with what you normally post, you don't need to expand the perception that anything is going over your head...

 

[paulitician]

Whatever the free market dictates.

Well, that doesn't really answer the question. Too vague. How much do you personally feel is a survivable Wage in America today? Just some numbers.

 

[kaz]

Whatever the free market dictates.

Well, that doesn't really answer the question. Too vague. How much do you personally feel is a survivable Wage in America today? Just some numbers.

Actually survivable wage wasn't the question, you changed it. And your question is vague, so why are you expecting an answer that isn't?

I addressed your point pretty clearly just a couple ago. #62

 

[paulitician]

Lets not let the thread become mired in Political debate and diatribes. Try to think about it for a bit and then attempt to put some numbers out there. How much do you personally feel an average American should be able to survive on? This question will require some thought. There are many life factors to contemplate. So don't feel a need to rush in to type the usual Political rants. Just some numbers.

the answer to your question is very subjective....

an individual who lives at home with his parents might only need a part-time $5/hr job to support his hobbies....while another might need a full-time $500k/yr job to support a big family and expensive tastes....

unlike lefties who want to put everyone into a straight-jacket......Americans are a diverse group of individuals who have many different opinons....

Yes, but what are your personal feelings? How much do you think an average American can survive on? Just think about it a bit and then try to throw a number out there. You're not on trial. Any answer is acceptable. I'm just interested in your personal feelings on what kind of Wage = Survivability to you.

 

[Contumacious]

Lets not let the thread become mired in Political debate and diatribes. Try to think about it for a bit and then attempt to put some numbers out there..

Let 's see if I can contribute to your thread.

I need to make enough to defray the costs of the welfare-warfare state.

I need to pay for the Iraq, AfPak wars, and the possible invasion of Syria, Lebanon and Iran.

I need to pay for the 50% of Americans who are receiving handouts.

There are approximately 232,000,000 adults. 50% are on the dole.

so there are 116,000,000 producers.

the national debt is 17 trillion .

So I need to make $146,551.00 just to pay federal taxes.

I need to make close to $100.00 hour.

Did that help?

.

 

[paulitician]

Whatever the free market dictates.

Well, that doesn't really answer the question. Too vague. How much do you personally feel is a survivable Wage in America today? Just some numbers.

Actually survivable wage wasn't the question, you changed it. And your question is vague, so why are you expecting an answer that isn't?

I addressed your point pretty clearly just a couple ago. #62

So what kind of Wage in terms of numbers, do you personally feel an average American can survive on? I'm being specific. Just looking for your numbers. It's just a question. You're not on trial. All answers are acceptable in this thread.

 

[PredFan]

Whatever the free market dictates.

Well, that doesn't really answer the question. Too vague. How much do you personally feel is a survivable Wage in America today? Just some numbers.

You asked "What do I think is a fair and decent wage. I answered the question. What the market dictates IS a fair and decent wage. It is the fairest of all, as it is not based on biases that are human failings such as sex, or color, or creed.

If someone thinks it is not a decent wage then they should get a job that pays what they think is decent.

 

[kaz]

Lets not let the thread become mired in Political debate and diatribes. Try to think about it for a bit and then attempt to put some numbers out there. How much do you personally feel an average American should be able to survive on? This question will require some thought. There are many life factors to contemplate. So don't feel a need to rush in to type the usual Political rants. Just some numbers.

the answer to your question is very subjective....

an individual who lives at home with his parents might only need a part-time $5/hr job to support his hobbies....while another might need a full-time $500k/yr job to support a big family and expensive tastes....

unlike lefties who want to put everyone into a straight-jacket......Americans are a diverse group of individuals who have many different opinons....

Yes, but what are your personal feelings? How much do you think an average American can survive on? Just think about it a bit and then try to throw a number out there. You're not on trial. Any answer is acceptable. I'm just interested in your personal feelings on what kind of Wage = Survivability to you.

A teenager? A single income, first income or second income earner? Someone who lives in a low income area, a middle class area, an inner city? Someone who saves and lives below their means or spends every dime as soon as they get it?

As a baseline, a survivable wage for a teenager working after school is generally zero. To go up from there, you have to set some parameters for the question.

 

[PredFan]

Lets not let the thread become mired in Political debate and diatribes. Try to think about it for a bit and then attempt to put some numbers out there. How much do you personally feel an average American should be able to survive on? This question will require some thought. There are many life factors to contemplate. So don't feel a need to rush in to type the usual Political rants. Just some numbers.

the answer to your question is very subjective....

an individual who lives at home with his parents might only need a part-time $5/hr job to support his hobbies....while another might need a full-time $500k/yr job to support a big family and expensive tastes....

unlike lefties who want to put everyone into a straight-jacket......Americans are a diverse group of individuals who have many different opinons....

Yes, but what are your personal feelings? How much do you think an average American can survive on? Just think about it a bit and then try to throw a number out there. You're not on trial. Any answer is acceptable. I'm just interested in your personal feelings on what kind of Wage = Survivability to you.

I don't have any opinion on what I think the average America can survive on. That is an absurd idea. Each persons situation is different, and no one wage suits all.

 

[paulitician]

Lets not let the thread become mired in Political debate and diatribes. Try to think about it for a bit and then attempt to put some numbers out there..

Let 's see if I can contribute you thread.

I need to make enough to defray the costs of the welfare-warfare state.

I need to pay for the Iraq, AfPak wars, and the possible invasion of Syria, Lebanon and Iran.

I need to pay for the 50% of Americans who are receiving handouts.

There are approximately 232,000,000 adults. 50% are on the dole.

so there are 116,000,000 producers.

the national debt is 17 trillion .

So I need to make $146,551.00 just to pay federal taxes.

I need to make close to $100.00 hour.

Did that help?

.

Ah, so sad. It's not about Politics. It's about Numbers. What is a survivable Wage in today's America? Is it $4 an hr? Is it $10 an hr? All answers are acceptable on this thread. I'm just looking for personal takes on it.

 

[paulitician]

the answer to your question is very subjective....

an individual who lives at home with his parents might only need a part-time $5/hr job to support his hobbies....while another might need a full-time $500k/yr job to support a big family and expensive tastes....

unlike lefties who want to put everyone into a straight-jacket......Americans are a diverse group of individuals who have many different opinons....

Yes, but what are your personal feelings? How much do you think an average American can survive on? Just think about it a bit and then try to throw a number out there. You're not on trial. Any answer is acceptable. I'm just interested in your personal feelings on what kind of Wage = Survivability to you.

I don't have any opinion on what I think the average America can survive on. That is an absurd idea. Each persons situation is different, and no one wage suits all.

That's cool. However, i think it is possible to give a personal estimated number. There's nothing to fear. No one's on trial here. We're just having a discussion.

 

[Katzndogz]

Should people who don't need to work to survive be paid enough to support a family of four? This includes teenagers working in the summer for fall spending money; seniors looking for a small supplement and can't earn much, and bored housewives looking to get out of the house for a few hours each day.

Those are fair questions, but i'm not so much interested in debate. I'm more interested in what you personally feel is an adequate Wage for an average American to survive on. Throw some numbers out there. Thanks.

What ever the amount is that is negotiated between the employer and employee whatever it is.

In some countries the minimum wage is set by categories. Some categories are very low paid some are highly paid. That's more fair than an across the board minimum wage for everyone. Some tasks just aren't worth the minimum wage they get now. That's as far as I will go.

 

[Ame®icano]

Just curious. I'm really interested in hearing what you all consider a fair & decent Wage. I'd like to get some straight-forward answers without the Political debates and diatribes. I'm only interested in the numbers. Just list the numbers you think an average American should be able to survive on. I think it's a very interesting and important question. It should be fascinating in terms of numbers, seeing what Americans think an average American can or should be able to survive on. Thanks all for your participation.

Fair wage should be whatever your labor or service is worth.

Therefore, minimum wage should be zero.

 

[paulitician]

Whatever the free market dictates.

Well, that doesn't really answer the question. Too vague. How much do you personally feel is a survivable Wage in America today? Just some numbers.

You asked "What do I think is a fair and decent wage. I answered the question. What the market dictates IS a fair and decent wage. It is the fairest of all, as it is not based on biases that are human failings such as sex, or color, or creed.

If someone thinks it is not a decent wage then they should get a job that pays what they think is decent.

Ok, so what kind of Wage do you personally feel is fair and decent? Give a round-about figure.

 

[TooTall]

Just curious. I'm really interested in hearing what you all consider a fair & decent Wage. I'd like to get some straight-forward answers without the Political debates and diatribes. I'm only interested in the numbers. Just list the numbers you think an average American should be able to survive on. I think it's a very interesting and important question. It should be fascinating in terms of numbers, seeing what Americans think an average American can or should be able to survive on. Thanks all for your participation.

If depends on where the person lives. In NYC or LA $10 an hour would barely make it if you could get anyone to work for that. In south Texas or middle Tennessee, one could get by on a little less. The problem, as I see it, is a few million single moms with several kids. Of course, very few of them are interested in a job, since welfare, food stamps, rent assistance, free cell phone, Medicaid and other freebies that come to a lot more than $20 an hour.

 

[paulitician]

Just curious. I'm really interested in hearing what you all consider a fair & decent Wage. I'd like to get some straight-forward answers without the Political debates and diatribes. I'm only interested in the numbers. Just list the numbers you think an average American should be able to survive on. I think it's a very interesting and important question. It should be fascinating in terms of numbers, seeing what Americans think an average American can or should be able to survive on. Thanks all for your participation.

Fair wage should be whatever your labor or service is worth.

Therefore, minimum wage should be zero.

Ok, so what Wage do you personally feel most average Americans should be able to survive on? Just throw some numbers out there.