So what ever hapened to an ice free north pole.

[del]

Unfortunately nothing has changed.

The sea ice continues to shrink, and the percentage of CO2 in the atmosphere continues to rise.

oh, dear, whatever shall we do?
i know, we'll trade carbon credits and everything will be all right.

 

[editec]

Last year Greenland lost 28 square miles of what had been permanently ice-locked.

Maybe it means nothing.

Let's risk it all on that hope, shall we?

 

[del]

Last year Greenland lost 28 square miles of what had been permanently ice-locked.

Maybe it means nothing.

Let's risk it all on that hope, shall we?

permanently ice locked since the 16th century. before that it was permanently not ice locked. before that....well, you get the picture.

 

[DavidS]

I was actually being sarcastic. I think we're heaaded for a lot of chaotic weather, and climate change deniers are helping us down a (possibly) avoidable path that only a few will enjoy.

We're not headed down any path that anyone, no matter with whatever meteorological degree can guess. Weather forecasting is based on a NUMBER of different scenarios. Pressures, PNA, NAO, AO, PDA, PDO, MJO, ridges, troughs, La Nina, neutral, el nino.... you name it.

It was warm in the northeast for the past week. Want to know why? High pressure caused by a positive NAO. When the NAO fell, the high pressure buckled and allowed a re-loading of cold canadian air to flow through the East. While the East has been warm, the west was cold. Idaho had their earliest snowfall in recorded history last week. Alaska has had the coldest Autumn on record. The polar ice sheet has gained almost everything it lost during the summer, which means we're in for a doozy of a winter. Follow the gravity and the Earth's rotation. On the northern hemisphere, everything travels from northwest to southeast. If there's a lot of cold air in the northwest, there will be a lot of cold air in the south east.

 

[DavidS]

Climate change prevaricator.

No it's not.

We haven't been keeping accurate temperature readings for that long. We only just started in the 1970s due to the advancement of computer technology that give us more accurate readings. Even with that, the continental shelf as we have it today, which would be the biggest factor on who receives what weather, is around for the past 100,000 years or so. We're taking a temperature sample for 1% of that time. It's not accurate because weather patterns can last for hundreds of years.

I'm sure everyone knows that painting of George Washington crossing the Delaware River. Link here: http://activistchat.com/iran/images/GeorgeWashingtonDelaware.jpg

See that? See what's in the water? Ice. The Delaware River hasn't frozen over in hundreds of years. It stopped around 1850 or so. It stopped because the Little Ice Age stopped. The Little Ice Age lasted for hundreds of years. The medieval warm period last for hundreds of years before that...

Evidence? The Vikings, around 1000 or so, settled this huge island that was lush and covered in forest. Trees, grass, everywhere. They island had so much green to it, they named it Greenland. Today, Greenland is mostly an ice sheet.

If we look through meteorological and archeological evidence from the past, the sea levels were much higher then they are now, which would indicate that there was a little ice age that preceded the medieval warm period. Proof? Sea levels only rise massively on a global level when a huge amount of ice melts. We had polar caps. Then, during the medieval warm period, they melted. After the medieval warm period, they re-formed. And now they're melting again... or so we think. There are arguments each way that ask if we're still in the little ice age or not.

If we were to use a target symbol and define the outer rings as our global climate, the second rings would be defined as an ice age or interglacial period, the third rings would be defined as a little ice age or a warm period, the fourth rings would be defined as 10-20 year weather patterns, and then inside those rings would be seasonal weather patterns, inside those weekly weather patterns defined by El Nino and La Nina, and then inside those would be PNA, PDO, etc.

There are many, many, many determining factors as to what goes on with our weather today, it's ignorant to think that fossil fuel emissions could even have a micro-impact on our climate.

A massive typhoon hitting Japan has more impact on our weather, here in New York City, than somebody's SUV does.

 

[Chris]

Sorry, David, you are wrong. We have increased the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere by 39% since 1800. The amount of CO2 in the atmosphere is now at the highest level in 600,000 years which is as far back as the Antarctic ice core record goes back. The level of CO2 increase is accelerating as China and India industrialize. We are warming the planet, that is not in dispute. The only question is, How much?

Are there other factors involved? Of course. Could the sun trump global warming? Of course it could. We are currently in the down portion of the solar cycle and the Southern Oscillation, so we will see relatively cooler temps until the sun heats up again. But we are warming the earth. That cannot be disputed.

 

[DavidS]

Sorry, David, you are wrong. We have increased the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere by 39% since 1800. The amount of CO2 in the atmosphere is now at the highest level in 600,000 years which is as far back as the Antarctic ice core record goes back. The level of CO2 increase is accelerating as China and India industrialize. We are warming the planet, that is not in dispute. The only question is, How much?

Are there other factors involved? Of course. Could the sun trump global warming? Of course it could. We are currently in the down portion of the solar cycle and the Southern Oscillation, so we will see relatively cooler temps until the sun heats up again. But we are warming the earth. That cannot be disputed.

First of all, we had nothing to increase the CO2 levels in the atmosphere in 1800. Around 1850 we did. And in 1850, did we have anything to measure the levels of CO2 in our atmosphere? The answer is, no.

Now, see, I was all nice giving you facts and statistics and terms like positive and negative NAO (North Atlantic Oscilliation), PDO (Pacific Decadal Oscillation), the AO (Arctic Oscillation), the PNA (Pacific-North American teleconnection pattern), the MJO (Madden-Julian oscillation), La Nina (cooling of the Pacific) and El Nina (warming of the pacific). Where are your researched facts, Chris? Where are your studies and statistics that you've done yourself? Or are you listening to what the news is saying and not doing any research for yourself?

Learn, Chris. The Global Warming/Green fad is all about green... as in MONEY. They're trying to get us to spend money on this Green market, create Green Collar jobs, because in the end, it makes them moneyyyyyy. Do you really think Al Gore cares about the environment? He flys so often in his private jet, to and from places to make $200,000 speeches, he uses more emissions in a single day than any of us do in a year. He has the largest home in Tennessee and consumes the most energy... and none of the energy is green energy. He made tens of millions of dollars off of his movies and books all hoping the sheep will follow him. And little lemmings like you who don't do your own research will follow him and give him your money.

Me? I did my research. Global warming is a farce. There is nothing you or I could ever to or hope to do that will change the climate of this planet. It would be like a tiny microbe trying to build the empire state building.

 

[Chris]

Global warming is a fact.

We are pumping billions of tons of CO2 into the atmosphere each year. CO2 causes the earth to retain heat. Therefore, we are warming the earth.

The only question is, How much?

 

[DavidS]

Global warming is a fact.

We are pumping billions of tons of CO2 into the atmosphere each year. CO2 causes the earth to retain heat. Therefore, we are warming the earth.

The only question is, How much?

My goodness, you are like the left wing version of Paperboy. I give you facts and statistics and you counter them with the most basic, irrelevant responses in the world.

Come on, I know there are a bunch of intelligent left-wing global warming believers on here. Jillian? Manifold? Anyone want to counter my argument with real facts and statistics instead of "it's true."

 

[Chris]

My goodness, you are like the left wing version of Paperboy. I give you facts and statistics and you counter them with the most basic, irrelevant responses in the world.

Come on, I know there are a bunch of intelligent left-wing global warming believers on here. Jillian? Manifold? Anyone want to counter my argument with real facts and statistics instead of "it's true."

Here are the facts. We have increased the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere by 39% in the last 200 years. CO2 in the atmosphere is now at its highest level in 600,000 years which is as far back as the Antarctic ice core records go.

Do you deny that CO2 is a greenhouse gas?

 

[Chris]

The Southern Oscillation and the solar cycle have significant effects on year-to-year global temperature change. Because both of these natural effects were in their cool phases in 2007, the unusual warmth of 2007 is all the more notable. It is apparent that there is no letup in the steep global warming trend of the past 30 years (see 5-year mean curve in Figure 1a).

"Global warming stopped in 1998," has become a recent mantra of those who wish to deny the reality of human-caused global warming. The continued rapid increase of the five-year running mean temperature exposes this assertion as nonsense. In reality, global temperature jumped two standard deviations above the trend line in 1998 because the "El Niño of the century" coincided with the calendar year, but there has been no lessening of the underlying warming trend.

Data @ NASA GISS: GISS Surface Temperature Analysis: 2007 Summation

 

[Charles_Main]

Actually seeing how it is nearing winter, I am sure the ice is growing at this time.

 

[Missourian]

First of all, we had nothing to increase the CO2 levels in the atmosphere in 1800. Around 1850 we did. And in 1850, did we have anything to measure the levels of CO2 in our atmosphere? The answer is, no.

Now, see, I was all nice giving you facts and statistics and terms like positive and negative NAO (North Atlantic Oscilliation), PDO (Pacific Decadal Oscillation), the AO (Arctic Oscillation), the PNA (Pacific-North American teleconnection pattern), the MJO (Madden-Julian oscillation), La Nina (cooling of the Pacific) and El Nina (warming of the pacific). Where are your researched facts, Chris? Where are your studies and statistics that you've done yourself? Or are you listening to what the news is saying and not doing any research for yourself?

Learn, Chris. The Global Warming/Green fad is all about green... as in MONEY. They're trying to get us to spend money on this Green market, create Green Collar jobs, because in the end, it makes them moneyyyyyy. Do you really think Al Gore cares about the environment? He flys so often in his private jet, to and from places to make $200,000 speeches, he uses more emissions in a single day than any of us do in a year. He has the largest home in Tennessee and consumes the most energy... and none of the energy is green energy. He made tens of millions of dollars off of his movies and books all hoping the sheep will follow him. And little lemmings like you who don't do your own research will follow him and give him your money.

Me? I did my research. Global warming is a farce. There is nothing you or I could ever to or hope to do that will change the climate of this planet. It would be like a tiny microbe trying to build the empire state building.

I can't give you anymore pos-rep today so you'll have to settle for a round of applause.

But while I don't believe in man-made global warming, protecting the environment is still a laudable goal.

 

[del]

I can't give you anymore pos-rep today so you'll have to settle for a round of applause.

But while I don't believe in man-made global warming, protecting the environment is still a laudable goal.

i agree.

i don't understand the mindset that says if you don't swallow this global warming hokum then you're automatically out there clear cutting the rain forest so you can strip mine for copper and flush the mess into the nearest pristine body of water and then drive away in your hummer.

it's in everyone's interest to protect the environment; it's in no one's interest to buy into the global warming scam.

 

[Charles_Main]

Me too. I have never got how if you do not buy the man made global warming is going to kill us all argument you are automatically labeled a global warming denier, and an evil pollution lover.

 

[Chris]

CO2 causes the earth to retain heat, therefore man mad global warming is undeniable. In the next decade we will have doubled the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere and melted the North Pole. As we move to the high side of the solar cycle, we will see more and more the effects of this massive infusion of CO2.

This link has a nice history of the research....

The Carbon Dioxide Greenhouse Effect

 

[Chris]

The Earth has been warming since 1910, with a temperature maximum reached in the 1990’s. (The year 2001 is now the second warmest year on record, according to the World Meteorological Organization.)

The scientific conclusion reached is that warming is real.

But is this warming man-made? Carbon dioxide has been rising since the time of James Watt (1736 – 1819), inventor of the auto-controlled steam engine that helped jump-start the industrial revolution. Since then, coal, oil and natural gas have powered our economies. Hydro-power and nuclear power are comparatively minor contributors to energy needs (excepting certain countries such as Norway and France).

Today the amount of carbon dumped globally into the atmosphere corresponds, on average, to one ton per person on the planet, each year. In the United States, carbon-based energy is especially important. The average American per capita emission is 5 tons of carbon annually. In Sweden (with a similar standard of living as the US) the carbon output is less than two tons of carbon per person per year.

Carbon dioxide is a greenhouse gas – it traps heat radiation that is attempting to escape from Earth. The physics of this process was established by the Irish physicist John Tyndall (1820 – 1891) and the effect was calculated by Swedish chemist Svante Arrhenius (1859 – 1927).

The basic argument (that is, that greenhouse gases keep the Earth comfortably warm) has never been challenged, and it follows that an increase in carbon dioxide in the atmosphere undoubtedly produces a rise in temperature at ground level.

The Rise of CO2 & Warming

 

[DiveCon]

man kirk, you are such a moron
not one gun has killed anyone
a gun is a tool, it does nothing that it isnt told to do by a HUMAN
guns dont kill people, people kill people

 

[DavidS]

The Earth has been warming since 1910, with a temperature maximum reached in the 1990’s. (The year 2001 is now the second warmest year on record, according to the World Meteorological Organization.)

The scientific conclusion reached is that warming is real.

But is this warming man-made? Carbon dioxide has been rising since the time of James Watt (1736 – 1819), inventor of the auto-controlled steam engine that helped jump-start the industrial revolution. Since then, coal, oil and natural gas have powered our economies. Hydro-power and nuclear power are comparatively minor contributors to energy needs (excepting certain countries such as Norway and France).

Today the amount of carbon dumped globally into the atmosphere corresponds, on average, to one ton per person on the planet, each year. In the United States, carbon-based energy is especially important. The average American per capita emission is 5 tons of carbon annually. In Sweden (with a similar standard of living as the US) the carbon output is less than two tons of carbon per person per year.

Carbon dioxide is a greenhouse gas – it traps heat radiation that is attempting to escape from Earth. The physics of this process was established by the Irish physicist John Tyndall (1820 – 1891) and the effect was calculated by Swedish chemist Svante Arrhenius (1859 – 1927).

The basic argument (that is, that greenhouse gases keep the Earth comfortably warm) has never been challenged, and it follows that an increase in carbon dioxide in the atmosphere undoubtedly produces a rise in temperature at ground level.

The Rise of CO2 & Warming

MYTH: Carbon Dioxide levels in our atmosphere at the moment are unprecedented (high).
FACT: Atmospheric carbon dioxide levels, currently only 350 parts per million have been over 18 times higher in the past at a time when cars, factories and power stations did not exist — levels rise and fall without mankind's help.

MYTH Mankind is pumping out carbon dioxide at a prodigious rate.
FACT 96.5% of all carbon dioxide emissions are from natural sources, mankind is responsible for only 3.5%, with 0.6% coming from fuel to move vehicles, and about 1% from fuel to heat buildings. Yet vehicle fuel (petrol) is taxed at 300% while fuel to heat buildings is taxed at 5% even though buildings emit nearly twice as much carbon dioxide!

MYTH: Carbon dioxide changes in the atmosphere cause temperature changes on the earth.
FACT: A report in the journal 'Science' in January of this year showed using information from ice cores with high time resolution that since the last ice age, every time when the temperature and carbon dioxide levels have shifted, the carbon dioxide change happened AFTER the temperature change, so that man-made global warming theory has put effect before cause — this shows that reducing carbon dioxide emissions is a futile King Canute exercise! What's more, both water vapor and methane are far more powerful greenhouse gases than carbon dioxide but they are ignored.

 

[Chris]

MYTH: Carbon Dioxide levels in our atmosphere at the moment are unprecedented (high).
FACT: Atmospheric carbon dioxide levels, currently only 350 parts per million have been over 18 times higher in the past at a time when cars, factories and power stations did not exist — levels rise and fall without mankind's help.

MYTH Mankind is pumping out carbon dioxide at a prodigious rate.
FACT 96.5% of all carbon dioxide emissions are from natural sources, mankind is responsible for only 3.5%, with 0.6% coming from fuel to move vehicles, and about 1% from fuel to heat buildings. Yet vehicle fuel (petrol) is taxed at 300% while fuel to heat buildings is taxed at 5% even though buildings emit nearly twice as much carbon dioxide!

MYTH: Carbon dioxide changes in the atmosphere cause temperature changes on the earth.
FACT: A report in the journal 'Science' in January of this year showed using information from ice cores with high time resolution that since the last ice age, every time when the temperature and carbon dioxide levels have shifted, the carbon dioxide change happened AFTER the temperature change, so that man-made global warming theory has put effect before cause — this shows that reducing carbon dioxide emissions is a futile King Canute exercise! What's more, both water vapor and methane are far more powerful greenhouse gases than carbon dioxide but they are ignored.

Link?