So what should Obama have done?

[Intense]

U.S. reconsiders Dutch offer to supply oil skimmers

Nice partisan link.

I have read that Geert Visser claims to have offered and was refused but he has not provided any documentation. He has also claimed that the Jones Act is what prevented the help being taken. And yet the Jones Act only covers cargo transported between American ports. His story sounds fishy to me.

Also notice that the Jones Act has not been waived and we are taking these sweepers.

Ravi, how far are you prepared to stretch this?

 

[Ravi]

That was a good effort, but for a few things.

A) if this isn't commerce then neither is healthcare insurance, which clearly OBama has declared is.

B) The entire gulf of Mexico in fact lies between two US ports.

On the off chance that you aren't just trying to be funny...BETWEEN means making commercial deliveries between two or more American ports. For instance, they couldn't transport commercial goods (things to be sold) between the Port of New Orleans and the Port of Houston unless they sailed under the American flag.

It more and more sounds like this guy is trying to make the Dutch look good at our expense. The Jones Act doesn't apply. If it did, why would the Dutch object to complying with it? And in fact they are lending us the sweeping arms to attach to ships already in the Gulf, not supplying ships.

but that isn't how the law reads and that isn't how it is interpreted. It has been interpreted as drawing a straight line from one port to another and anything above that line is considered to between two American ports. If they had meant inter port commerce, that is exactly what they have written.

No, you are simply wrong.

Educate yourself.

Jones Act

 

[Ravi]

Are you kidding me? Google it for yourself if you don't like my link but wake up. We're taking the skimmer arms and using them with U.S ships because they can't seem to waive the Jones Act. Can you not set your admiration for Obama aside long enough to find the damned truth about his incompetence?

Go check the Houston Chon link if you don't want to find your own info.

Again, the Jones Act doesn't apply. The guy's story doesn't add up, imo.

I didn't bring up the Jones Act. You did. The Jones Act doesn't mean squat to me. All I want to know is why when the Dutch GOVERNMENT offered help 3 days after the rig exploded the Obama administration turned that help away. It is not a "guy's story". It was a documented offer that came through official government channels. You can guarantee that if it were NOT the case, then Robert Gibbs would be crying from the rooftops about the mean lies that are being spread.

Do you find it acceptable that our government turned this help away and now we have oil washing up on the Gulf coasts and marshes? Are you good with this?

The Dutch guy brought it up. It doesn't apply therefore his story doesn't add up.

 

[The Infidel]

NEVER LET A GOOD CRISIS GO TO WASTE....

The oilrig explosion is going to be the catylist that B.O. will use to advance cap and trade.

This is why the leak is going to continue, and The Jones Act wont be waived. (We need all the help we can get, and it was turned down.)

 

[Vel]

Again, the Jones Act doesn't apply. The guy's story doesn't add up, imo.

I didn't bring up the Jones Act. You did. The Jones Act doesn't mean squat to me. All I want to know is why when the Dutch GOVERNMENT offered help 3 days after the rig exploded the Obama administration turned that help away. It is not a "guy's story". It was a documented offer that came through official government channels. You can guarantee that if it were NOT the case, then Robert Gibbs would be crying from the rooftops about the mean lies that are being spread.

Do you find it acceptable that our government turned this help away and now we have oil washing up on the Gulf coasts and marshes? Are you good with this?

The Dutch guy brought it up. It doesn't apply therefore his story doesn't add up.

Whatever, it's beside my point. Are you good with the fact that our government turned the proffered help away and now we have oil washing onto our shores and marshes?

 

[ConHog]

On the off chance that you aren't just trying to be funny...BETWEEN means making commercial deliveries between two or more American ports. For instance, they couldn't transport commercial goods (things to be sold) between the Port of New Orleans and the Port of Houston unless they sailed under the American flag.

It more and more sounds like this guy is trying to make the Dutch look good at our expense. The Jones Act doesn't apply. If it did, why would the Dutch object to complying with it? And in fact they are lending us the sweeping arms to attach to ships already in the Gulf, not supplying ships.

but that isn't how the law reads and that isn't how it is interpreted. It has been interpreted as drawing a straight line from one port to another and anything above that line is considered to between two American ports. If they had meant inter port commerce, that is exactly what they have written.

No, you are simply wrong.

Educate yourself.

Jones Act

IF you are right, and all of the rest of us are wrong, why then is the Administration claiming they haven't received any requests for waivers so that foreign ships can aid in the cleanup? Wouldn't they instead say "hey you don't need waivers, come on in?"

 

[antagon]

The Merchant Marine Act of 1920 (P.L. 66-261), also known as the Jones Act, the law requires essentially that all commercial acts conducted in U.S.-controlled waters be performed by “U.S.-flag ships, constructed in the United States, owned by U.S. citizens, and crewed by U.S. citizens and U.S. permanent residents.”

Jones Act 46 USCS - (Pre-2006)

This wouldn't be a commercial act. And it also isn't between American ports...another requirement.



I bolded it for you that time cause I know you're a dope.

That was a good effort, but for a few things.

A) if this isn't commerce then neither is healthcare insurance, which clearly OBama has declared is.

B) The entire gulf of Mexico in fact lies between two US ports.

if you read ch24. § 883 of the act you would find that lonestar is bullshitting everyone when he pretends that the act summarily restricts 'all commercial acts'. i couldn't imagine what would bring someone to lie about my country to look better on an internet message board.

 

[ConHog]

This wouldn't be a commercial act. And it also isn't between American ports...another requirement.



I bolded it for you that time cause I know you're a dope.

That was a good effort, but for a few things.

A) if this isn't commerce then neither is healthcare insurance, which clearly OBama has declared is.

B) The entire gulf of Mexico in fact lies between two US ports.

if you read ch24. § 883 of the act you would find that lonestar is bullshitting everyone when he pretends that the act summarily restricts 'all commercial acts'. i couldn't imagine what would bring someone to lie about my country to look better on an internet message board.

Well, lonestar in a loon so I've quit paying too much attention to him; BUT the Jones Act is obviously keeping foreign ships out of the gulf.

 

[antagon]

but that isn't how the law reads and that isn't how it is interpreted. It has been interpreted as drawing a straight line from one port to another and anything above that line is considered to between two American ports. If they had meant inter port commerce, that is exactly what they have written.

No, you are simply wrong.

Educate yourself.

Jones Act

IF you are right, and all of the rest of us are wrong, why then is the Administration claiming they haven't received any requests for waivers so that foreign ships can aid in the cleanup? Wouldn't they instead say "hey you don't need waivers, come on in?"

seriously, read the act. your chord between ports bit is pulled from an ass. yours or someone else's.

the US, furthermore, is not interested in a foreign aid free-for-all right in the gulf of mexico. something like that will likely never be endorsed. thousands of vessels of foreign and domestic fleets are involved in cleaning, repair, containment, dredging and logistics. 'the US has it covered, thanks for the gracious offer of assistance' is about right. that the jones act has not required a waiver as yet, despite all of the international vessels involved, only indicates that the act does not preclude the current extent of international commercial involvement, including the majority of vessels working on the foreign, broken rig.

how does that escape folks?

 

[Ravi]

Maybe you'll believe these guys.

The Maritime Executive Magazine :: A MORAL OBLIGATION, NOT A LEGAL OBLIGATION, REQUIRES THE USE OF U.S. VESSELS IN GULF COAST OIL SPILL CLEANUP

Also, according to the White House there are currently 15 foreign vessels working in the Gulf.

This Dutch guy is full of shit as are the rightwingloon talking heads.

 

[WillowTree]

The Dutch and The British offered to help with skimmers and both were turned down.

 

[Mini 14]

Folks, its all going to be water under the bridge soon enough. Obama's plan to power our country off rainbows and unicorns will take shape soon, and we'll all be so stinking rich that we'll just buy a new Gulf and move it here (I've always like Tonkin, if I get to have a say).

WTF did he say last night, other than "its BP's fault" and "I'm about to ram Cap and Trade down your throats"?

Seriously, was there anything new? Any answers? Any details at all?

Just get me the rainbows and unicorns, and I'll be behind you 100%.

 

[Intense]

A spy satellite picked this up from the oval office last night.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zgeQmzV9kk]YouTube - Madness Visible[/ame]

 

[Vel]

Maybe you'll believe these guys.

The Maritime Executive Magazine :: A MORAL OBLIGATION, NOT A LEGAL OBLIGATION, REQUIRES THE USE OF U.S. VESSELS IN GULF COAST OIL SPILL CLEANUP

Also, according to the White House there are currently 15 foreign vessels working in the Gulf.

This Dutch guy is full of shit as are the rightwingloon talking heads.

So what you're saying is that you're fine with the fact that our government turned down skimmer ships offered by the Dutch and now we have oil on the beaches and in the marshes of the Gulf coast.

 

[Ravi]

Maybe you'll believe these guys.

The Maritime Executive Magazine :: A MORAL OBLIGATION, NOT A LEGAL OBLIGATION, REQUIRES THE USE OF U.S. VESSELS IN GULF COAST OIL SPILL CLEANUP

Also, according to the White House there are currently 15 foreign vessels working in the Gulf.

This Dutch guy is full of shit as are the rightwingloon talking heads.

So what you're saying is that you're fine with the fact that our government turned down skimmer ships offered by the Dutch and now we have oil on the beaches and in the marshes of the Gulf coast.

No, I'm saying I don't believe the guy that says skimmer ships were turned down.

 

[Intense]

WASHINGTON - U.S. Senator George LeMieux (R-FL) today spoke on FOX News and MSNBC voicing his concerns over the lack of skimmers coming to the Gulf to aid in the cleanup efforts. LeMieux, who just returned from the Gulf on Friday, is in Pensacola again today and Tuesday to meet with President Obama and Admiral Thad Allen. LeMieux will encourage President Obama to waive portions of the Jones Act, which would immediately allow international skimmers in the Gulf.

"We need as much help as we can get in cleaning up the Gulf" LeMieux said. "There is no reason why every single skimmer vessel should not be heading to the Gulf to skim the oil. Preventing the oil from washing ashore and creating even more damage is what we need to be focused on in the next few weeks."

BACKGROUND: The Jones Act provides a federal framework for maritime labor relations and contains provisions requiring ships working in U.S. waters to be U.S. built, owned and operated. Jones Act waivers are administrative decisions that allow the use of vessels and shipping situations that wouldn't normally be legal under the Merchant Marine Act of 1920. One recent example of a waiver of the act occurred in the wake of Hurricane Katrina.

If oil is witnessed coming ashore, citizens should immediately contact the Deepwater Horizon Response Line at 866-557-1401. Constituents seeking help with issues related to the incident can call the senator's office directly and toll-free at (866) 630-7106. A website has been established for citizens to receive up-to-date information on the event at Unified Command for the BP Oil Spill | Deepwater Horizon Response. British Petroleum has set up a Florida specific site to monitor the Oil Spill. You can access pertinent information here Florida Gulf Response. The following is a link to the State Emergency Operations Center. They are actively monitoring the Deepwater Horizon Response as well as providing precautionary tips for residents and visitors. Florida Division of Emergency Management - State Emergency Operations Center.

New Sen. LeMieux to POTUS: Remove Bureaucracy and Send More Skimmers to Gulf Disaster

 

[Ravi]

Apparently he is stupid enough to believe rightwingloons.

The Mexican offer of two skimmers and 13,780 feet of boom and Norway’s offer of eight skimming systems were accepted in early May, according to the State Department. The Dutch offer of three sets of Koseq Rigid Sweeping Arms was accepted on May 23 and Canada’s offer of 9,843 feet of containment boom was accepted on June 4, the department said in a statement yesterday.


Asked why the US has not accepted more international offers of assistance, the State Department has said that the size and distance of those items plays a role, but also whether any cost is associated.
“For the most part, they are offers to sell supplies. And in determining whether to accept these offers, we look at the availability of domestic sources and also, you know, compare pricing on the open market,” State Department spokesman PJ Crowley told reporters.

US Searches for Oil Cleanup Aid Abroad, Two Notices Sent Worldwide Since Spill Began - Political Punch

 

[Intense]

Monday, 14 June 2010
A device that can “harvest” an oil spill in open seas or in a marsh – much like a combine harvests wheat and eliminates the chaff – sits as a working concept model at the LSU AgCenter in Baton Rouge.

The brainchild of Chandra Theegala, a civil and environmental engineer who has taught fluid mechanics for years, now waits for sufficient resources to bring the concept model to a full-blown working prototype.

Theegala, an associate professor in the LSU AgCenter Department of Biological and Agricultural Engineering, developed the idea in response to the Deepwater Horizon oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico in April.


Theegala’s invention uses a boom to skim surface oil and water through a positive displacement pump and into a container where the oil and water separate naturally. The oil floats up through a pipe into a collection vessel while the water goes another direction and is discharged back to where it came from.


“It relies on the principles of density difference between the two liquids in a u-tube and has no moving parts other than the pump,” Theegala said.


“It works with a commercially available, engine-powered diaphragm pump,” Theegala said. “Unlike other types of pumps that emulsify the oil, the diaphragm pump keeps the oil floating on the water. It works in an up-and-down motion – like chest compression in CPR.”


Theegala’s initial concept model can pump about 4,000 gallons of an oil-water-air mixture per hour. “A fully working model could handle 10 times that volume,” he said. “The material cost on this concept unit is around $7,000 and includes the pontoon unit and the pump.”


Theegala’s concept includes a V-shaped boom that would direct floating oil into the end of the V, where suction from the pump would draw the mixture into the device. “It’s like harvesting oil,” he said. “The oil would be collected in a sack that would float and be collected by a mother ship when it’s full.”


The device would be portable enough to be mounted on a small boat, carried to floating oil on a larger boat, and then lowered into the water where it would begin to do its work.


“It’s just like vacuuming your carpet,” Theegala said. “You follow the oil and suck it up. And you can go back and get what you missed.


“I am confident it will work,” Theegala said of the concept model. “We need to get the word out that we have a low-cost technology that can help in marshes and near an oil rig.”


The inventor sees the technology having applications for shallow marshes and near rigs.


For the marsh locations, the unit would sit up higher, be lighter and even be mounted on a motor boat. It would have a 1- to 2-inch-diameter vacuum hose, almost like a residential home vacuum cleaner, Theegala said.


“These units can be handed to hundreds of fishermen, who can mount them on their boats and clean up the marshes,” he said. “Like bees, each may not bring in a lot, but collectively it can be huge.”


For “near rig” applications, the skimmer would be mounted on an engine-powered pontoon boat that would have a front-end, fixed-V boom that would channel all the oil to the bottom tip of the V while being driven through an oil plume.


“There will be no need for adding any chemical dispersants, and the collected oil would be pure enough for processing,” Theegala said. “Once the floating bags are full, they can be emptied or switched out. A large mother ship can collect all the oil from several skimmers.”


A small prototype made in Theegala’s lab works as planned with 2 to 3 gallons of oil. “But as far as the real thing, we can only say it’s still to be tested in the open ocean. If you have pure crude oil, I am almost 100 percent certain it will work. But if chemicals are added, that changes the flow and density. That’s a different story.”


Theegala said he learned two things from a recent trip to Grand Isle, where the concept model was tested.


“One, the pontoon unit is more than sea-ready and rides like a pro,” he said. “The three- to-four-foot waves did not bother it, and it was stable. Two, for an open ocean unit, I definitely need a V boom in place of the straight boom on the test model.


“I clearly see a need for steering the running/sucking skimmer unit through a streak of oil,” Theegala said.

“Basically, you drive it like a whale with its mouth open and collect oil at the tip of the V. The best part is it can take in any combination of water, oil and air and deliver them from three different ports.”


The final hurdle, Theegala said, is finding the resources to develop a full prototype on a fast track to get skimmers into the Gulf and marshes. His model is currently positioned in the Gulf awaiting help from an agency or company that has the capabilities to test it in floating oil, he said.


“Dr. Theegala has worked very hard in a short period of time to get this designed, built and tested,” said David Boethel, vice chancellor and director of research for the LSU AgCenter. “I hope he is successful.”

nwlanews.com - Your home for news in Bossier and Webster Parishes

 

[ConHog]

Maybe you'll believe these guys.

The Maritime Executive Magazine :: A MORAL OBLIGATION, NOT A LEGAL OBLIGATION, REQUIRES THE USE OF U.S. VESSELS IN GULF COAST OIL SPILL CLEANUP

Also, according to the White House there are currently 15 foreign vessels working in the Gulf.

This Dutch guy is full of shit as are the rightwingloon talking heads.

That guy says the Jones Act doesn't apply, but then he goes on to detail that a waiver is needed for foreign vessels to participate in the cleanup, but he doesn't say exactly what that waiver waves. How odd............

 

[Ravi]

Please quit spamming the thread Intense. Next I expect you to post Terral's white paper.