So you love socialism ?????

Both of them would be totally against the Federal Reserve.
Very likely, the opposed concentrated power and wealth getting its way with no group able to stop them however they believed in government, it's why the founded one eh?

What they did not establish, anarchy, unregulated capitalism, or a nation for selfish children who think only of their own welfare...

Actually, they did establish unregulated capitalism. What kind of regulations on business did the federal government enforce in 1800?
Doesn't matter if they didn't have a one, they established, in the Constitution itself, the ability to regulate economic activity. That wasn't by accident.

No, actually they didn't. That's a lie that FDR managed to foist on the public. He extorted the Supreme Court into interpreting the Constitution the way he wanted it interpreted.

But you pretty much just admitted that we had unregulated capitalism until 1933.
Help for you, again:

"The U.S. Constitution of 1789 gave the federal government authority to tax, stating that Congress has the power to "... lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States." and also "To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes." Tariffs between states is prohibited by the U.S. Constitution, and all domestically made products can be imported or shipped to another state tax-free."
Tariffs in United States history - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


What is the Original Intent!and True Meaning of the “Commerce!Clause”?

Consider the following parts of the “ORDER GRANTING SUMMARY JUDGMENT” by Judge Roger Vinson, of the UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE NORTHERN DISTRICT OF FLORIDA, PENSACOLA DIVISION, in Case No.: 3:10-cv-91-RV/EMT – Jan. 31, 2011.

[We encourage you to read the entire opinion and the referenced documents cited therein.]

Judge Vinsonʼs Analysis starts on page 19 and continues through page 37 of 78 in his Order. …

“The Commerce Clause is a mere sixteen words long, and it provides that Congress shall have the power:

To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes. U.S. Const. art I, § 8, cl. 3. …

There is considerable historical evidence that in the early years of the Union, the word “commerce” was understood to encompass trade, and the intercourse, traffic, or exchange of goods; in short, “the activities of buying and selling that come after production and before the goods come to rest.” …

In a frequently cited law review article, one Constitutional scholar has painstakingly tallied each appearance of the word “commerce” in Madisonʼs notes on the Constitutional Convention and in The Federalist [Papers], and discovered that in none of the ninety-seven appearances of that term is it ever used to refer unambiguously to activity beyond trade or exchange. … (further examining each and every use of the word that appeared in the state ratification convention reports and finding “the term was uniformly used to refer to trade or exchange”). Even a Constitutional scholar who has argued for an expansive interpretation of the Commerce Clause (and, in fact, has been cited to, and relied on, by the defendants in this case) has acknowledged that when the Constitution was drafted and ratified, commerce “was the practical equivalent of the word ʻtrade.ʼ” See Robert L. Stern, That Commerce Which Concerns More States than One, 47 Harv. L. Rev. 1335, 1346 (1934) (“Stern”).

The Supreme Courtʼs first description of commerce (and still the most widely accepted) is from Gibbons v. Ogden, [22 U.S. (9 Wheat.) 1 (1824)], which involved a New York law that sought to limit the navigable waters within the jurisdiction of that state. In holding that “commerce” comprehended navigation, and thus it fell within the reach of the Commerce Clause, Chief Justice Marshall explained that “Commerce, undoubtedly, is traffic, but it is something more: it is intercourse. It describes the commercial intercourse between nations, and parts of nations, in all its branches, and is regulated by prescribing rules for carrying on that intercourse.” 22 U.S. at 72. This definition is consistent with accepted dictionary definitions of the Foundersʼ time. See 1 Samuel Johnson, A Dictionary of the English Language (4th ed. 1773) (commerce defined as “Intercourse; exchange of one thing for another; interchange of any thing; trade; traffick”). And it remained a good definition of the Supreme Courtʼs Commerce Clause interpretation throughout the Nineteenth Century. See, e.g., Kidd v. Pearson, 128 U.S. 1, 20- 21, 9 S. Ct. 6, 32 L. Ed. 346 (1888) (“The legal definition of the term [commerce] . . . consists in intercourse and traffic, including in these terms navigation and the transportation and transit of persons and property, as well as the purchase, sale, and exchange of commodities”).

As Alexander Hamilton intimated in The Federalist, however, it did not at that time encompass manufacturing or agriculture. See The Federalist [Papers] No. 34, at 212-13 (noting that the “encouragement of agriculture and manufactures” was to remain an object of state expenditure).This interpretation of commerce as being primarily concerned with the commercial intercourse associated with the trade or exchange of goods and commodities is consistent with the original purpose of the Commerce Clause (discussed immediately below), which is entitled to “great influence in [its] construction.” See Gibbons, supra, at 188-89 11 [Note; the original “foot note 11” is presented in full at the end of this paper and is incorporated herein by reference.]

There is no doubt historically that the primary purpose behind the Commerce Clause was to give Congress power to regulate commerce so that it could eliminate the trade restrictions and barriers by and between the states that had existed under the Articles of Confederation. Such obstructions to commerce were destructive to the Union and believed to be precursors to war.
 
Corruption is an intrinsic feature of socialism. Liberals are so smart that they cling to their imbecile belief in socialism despite being shown example after example where it failed.

Always up there in the "moron-quotient", right bripat?

So, if corruption is an "intrinsic part of socialism"....does it follow that corruption does NOT exist in a capitalistic system?.

The less government is involved in the economy, the less corruption there is. When government can't hand out favors, there's nothing to corrupt. Corporations have a vested interest in preventing corruption within the corporation, and they implement systems to prevent. That's not the case with government.

Is that why they passed all those anti-trust laws?

They passed them because Competitors of Standard Oil were envious and they bribed people like Teddy Roosevelt and lots of Congressmen to pass them.
 
Very likely, the opposed concentrated power and wealth getting its way with no group able to stop them however they believed in government, it's why the founded one eh?

What they did not establish, anarchy, unregulated capitalism, or a nation for selfish children who think only of their own welfare...

Actually, they did establish unregulated capitalism. What kind of regulations on business did the federal government enforce in 1800?
Doesn't matter if they didn't have a one, they established, in the Constitution itself, the ability to regulate economic activity. That wasn't by accident.

No, actually they didn't. That's a lie that FDR managed to foist on the public. He extorted the Supreme Court into interpreting the Constitution the way he wanted it interpreted.

But you pretty much just admitted that we had unregulated capitalism until 1933.
Help for you, again:

"The U.S. Constitution of 1789 gave the federal government authority to tax, stating that Congress has the power to "... lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States." and also "To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes." Tariffs between states is prohibited by the U.S. Constitution, and all domestically made products can be imported or shipped to another state tax-free."
Tariffs in United States history - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


What is the Original Intent!and True Meaning of the “Commerce!Clause”?

Consider the following parts of the “ORDER GRANTING SUMMARY JUDGMENT” by Judge Roger Vinson, of the UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE NORTHERN DISTRICT OF FLORIDA, PENSACOLA DIVISION, in Case No.: 3:10-cv-91-RV/EMT – Jan. 31, 2011.

[We encourage you to read the entire opinion and the referenced documents cited therein.]

Judge Vinsonʼs Analysis starts on page 19 and continues through page 37 of 78 in his Order. …

“The Commerce Clause is a mere sixteen words long, and it provides that Congress shall have the power:

To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes. U.S. Const. art I, § 8, cl. 3. …

There is considerable historical evidence that in the early years of the Union, the word “commerce” was understood to encompass trade, and the intercourse, traffic, or exchange of goods; in short, “the activities of buying and selling that come after production and before the goods come to rest.” …

In a frequently cited law review article, one Constitutional scholar has painstakingly tallied each appearance of the word “commerce” in Madisonʼs notes on the Constitutional Convention and in The Federalist [Papers], and discovered that in none of the ninety-seven appearances of that term is it ever used to refer unambiguously to activity beyond trade or exchange. … (further examining each and every use of the word that appeared in the state ratification convention reports and finding “the term was uniformly used to refer to trade or exchange”). Even a Constitutional scholar who has argued for an expansive interpretation of the Commerce Clause (and, in fact, has been cited to, and relied on, by the defendants in this case) has acknowledged that when the Constitution was drafted and ratified, commerce “was the practical equivalent of the word ʻtrade.ʼ” See Robert L. Stern, That Commerce Which Concerns More States than One, 47 Harv. L. Rev. 1335, 1346 (1934) (“Stern”).

The Supreme Courtʼs first description of commerce (and still the most widely accepted) is from Gibbons v. Ogden, [22 U.S. (9 Wheat.) 1 (1824)], which involved a New York law that sought to limit the navigable waters within the jurisdiction of that state. In holding that “commerce” comprehended navigation, and thus it fell within the reach of the Commerce Clause, Chief Justice Marshall explained that “Commerce, undoubtedly, is traffic, but it is something more: it is intercourse. It describes the commercial intercourse between nations, and parts of nations, in all its branches, and is regulated by prescribing rules for carrying on that intercourse.” 22 U.S. at 72. This definition is consistent with accepted dictionary definitions of the Foundersʼ time. See 1 Samuel Johnson, A Dictionary of the English Language (4th ed. 1773) (commerce defined as “Intercourse; exchange of one thing for another; interchange of any thing; trade; traffick”). And it remained a good definition of the Supreme Courtʼs Commerce Clause interpretation throughout the Nineteenth Century. See, e.g., Kidd v. Pearson, 128 U.S. 1, 20- 21, 9 S. Ct. 6, 32 L. Ed. 346 (1888) (“The legal definition of the term [commerce] . . . consists in intercourse and traffic, including in these terms navigation and the transportation and transit of persons and property, as well as the purchase, sale, and exchange of commodities”).

As Alexander Hamilton intimated in The Federalist, however, it did not at that time encompass manufacturing or agriculture. See The Federalist [Papers] No. 34, at 212-13 (noting that the “encouragement of agriculture and manufactures” was to remain an object of state expenditure).This interpretation of commerce as being primarily concerned with the commercial intercourse associated with the trade or exchange of goods and commodities is consistent with the original purpose of the Commerce Clause (discussed immediately below), which is entitled to “great influence in [its] construction.” See Gibbons, supra, at 188-89 11 [Note; the original “foot note 11” is presented in full at the end of this paper and is incorporated herein by reference.]

There is no doubt historically that the primary purpose behind the Commerce Clause was to give Congress power to regulate commerce so that it could eliminate the trade restrictions and barriers by and between the states that had existed under the Articles of Confederation. Such obstructions to commerce were destructive to the Union and believed to be precursors to war.
So?
 
Corruption is an intrinsic feature of socialism. Liberals are so smart that they cling to their imbecile belief in socialism despite being shown example after example where it failed.

Always up there in the "moron-quotient", right bripat?

So, if corruption is an "intrinsic part of socialism"....does it follow that corruption does NOT exist in a capitalistic system?.

The less government is involved in the economy, the less corruption there is. When government can't hand out favors, there's nothing to corrupt. Corporations have a vested interest in preventing corruption within the corporation, and they implement systems to prevent. That's not the case with government.

Is that why they passed all those anti-trust laws?

They passed them because Competitors of Standard Oil were envious and they bribed people like Teddy Roosevelt and lots of Congressmen to pass them.

As expected, you think it was another conspiracy. The right wing.......home of "no conspiracy theory left behind".
 
Both of them would be totally against the Federal Reserve.
Very likely, the opposed concentrated power and wealth getting its way with no group able to stop them however they believed in government, it's why the founded one eh?

What they did not establish, anarchy, unregulated capitalism, or a nation for selfish children who think only of their own welfare...

Actually, they did establish unregulated capitalism. What kind of regulations on business did the federal government enforce in 1800?
Doesn't matter if they didn't have a one, they established, in the Constitution itself, the ability to regulate economic activity. That wasn't by accident.

No, actually they didn't. That's a lie that FDR managed to foist on the public. He extorted the Supreme Court into interpreting the Constitution the way he wanted it interpreted.

But you pretty much just admitted that we had unregulated capitalism until 1933.


In 1824 the Supreme Court strengthened the federal government's power to regulate interstate commerce with its decision in Gibbons v. Ogden, which involved the authority to license shipping. Steamboat operator Thomas Gibbons had secured only a federal license to run his business in New York State waters, which were controlled by a monopoly created through a state licensing system. A member of this monopoly, Aaron Ogden tried to shut down Gibbons's business by suing him for failing to have the proper New York State licenses. The Court ruled in favor of Gibbons and declared that commerce involved not only buying and selling but also transportation and navigation. By giving Congress the sole authority to regulate interstate transportation, this decision cleared the way for the United States to create a national transportation system that has continued to benefit business.

No it didn't. It also stated unequivocally that commerce consisted of trade, not of producing food or manufacturing.
 
Yeah that's why the Founders did not have a Federal Income Tax and was against it.
Very Adam Smith but it's interesting to see how the government was funded then? A free-trade capitalist would be horrified. Look it up: Tariffs in United States history - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It was funded by tariffs. So what's your point?
My point was made, you just don't understand it: A free-trade capitalist would be horrified.
 
Yeah that's why the Founders did not have a Federal Income Tax and was against it.

Sure....until a federal income tax was mandatory to pay for wars......

During the Civil War Congress passed the Revenue Act of 1861 which included a tax on personal incomes to help pay war expenses
 
Corruption is an intrinsic feature of socialism. Liberals are so smart that they cling to their imbecile belief in socialism despite being shown example after example where it failed.

Always up there in the "moron-quotient", right bripat?

So, if corruption is an "intrinsic part of socialism"....does it follow that corruption does NOT exist in a capitalistic system?.

The less government is involved in the economy, the less corruption there is. When government can't hand out favors, there's nothing to corrupt. Corporations have a vested interest in preventing corruption within the corporation, and they implement systems to prevent. That's not the case with government.

Is that why they passed all those anti-trust laws?

They passed them because Competitors of Standard Oil were envious and they bribed people like Teddy Roosevelt and lots of Congressmen to pass them.

As expected, you think it was another conspiracy. The right wing.......home of "no conspiracy theory left behind".

We all know how bills get passed. It works the same way now as it did then. It's not a conspiricy. It's simply a group of people acting in their self interest.

It's interesting that all you people who claim to scoff at conspiracy think there is some great conspiracy among corporations to discredit the theory of AGW.
 
Yeah that's why the Founders did not have a Federal Income Tax and was against it.
Very Adam Smith but it's interesting to see how the government was funded then? A free-trade capitalist would be horrified. Look it up: Tariffs in United States history - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It was funded by tariffs. So what's your point?
My point was made, you just don't understand it: A free-trade capitalist would be horrified.
What sort of taxes wouldn't interfere with trade?
 
Very likely, the opposed concentrated power and wealth getting its way with no group able to stop them however they believed in government, it's why the founded one eh?

What they did not establish, anarchy, unregulated capitalism, or a nation for selfish children who think only of their own welfare...

Actually, they did establish unregulated capitalism. What kind of regulations on business did the federal government enforce in 1800?
Doesn't matter if they didn't have a one, they established, in the Constitution itself, the ability to regulate economic activity. That wasn't by accident.

No, actually they didn't. That's a lie that FDR managed to foist on the public. He extorted the Supreme Court into interpreting the Constitution the way he wanted it interpreted.

But you pretty much just admitted that we had unregulated capitalism until 1933.


In 1824 the Supreme Court strengthened the federal government's power to regulate interstate commerce with its decision in Gibbons v. Ogden, which involved the authority to license shipping. Steamboat operator Thomas Gibbons had secured only a federal license to run his business in New York State waters, which were controlled by a monopoly created through a state licensing system. A member of this monopoly, Aaron Ogden tried to shut down Gibbons's business by suing him for failing to have the proper New York State licenses. The Court ruled in favor of Gibbons and declared that commerce involved not only buying and selling but also transportation and navigation. By giving Congress the sole authority to regulate interstate transportation, this decision cleared the way for the United States to create a national transportation system that has continued to benefit business.

No it didn't. It also stated unequivocally that commerce consisted of trade, not of producing food or manufacturing.


And when you sell that food, or manufactured goods, that is trade. You need to stick your head back in the freezer. It's overheating again.
 
Actually, they did establish unregulated capitalism. What kind of regulations on business did the federal government enforce in 1800?
Doesn't matter if they didn't have a one, they established, in the Constitution itself, the ability to regulate economic activity. That wasn't by accident.

No, actually they didn't. That's a lie that FDR managed to foist on the public. He extorted the Supreme Court into interpreting the Constitution the way he wanted it interpreted.

But you pretty much just admitted that we had unregulated capitalism until 1933.
Help for you, again:

"The U.S. Constitution of 1789 gave the federal government authority to tax, stating that Congress has the power to "... lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States." and also "To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes." Tariffs between states is prohibited by the U.S. Constitution, and all domestically made products can be imported or shipped to another state tax-free."
Tariffs in United States history - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


What is the Original Intent!and True Meaning of the “Commerce!Clause”?

Consider the following parts of the “ORDER GRANTING SUMMARY JUDGMENT” by Judge Roger Vinson, of the UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE NORTHERN DISTRICT OF FLORIDA, PENSACOLA DIVISION, in Case No.: 3:10-cv-91-RV/EMT – Jan. 31, 2011.

[We encourage you to read the entire opinion and the referenced documents cited therein.]

Judge Vinsonʼs Analysis starts on page 19 and continues through page 37 of 78 in his Order. …

“The Commerce Clause is a mere sixteen words long, and it provides that Congress shall have the power:

To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes. U.S. Const. art I, § 8, cl. 3. …

There is considerable historical evidence that in the early years of the Union, the word “commerce” was understood to encompass trade, and the intercourse, traffic, or exchange of goods; in short, “the activities of buying and selling that come after production and before the goods come to rest.” …

In a frequently cited law review article, one Constitutional scholar has painstakingly tallied each appearance of the word “commerce” in Madisonʼs notes on the Constitutional Convention and in The Federalist [Papers], and discovered that in none of the ninety-seven appearances of that term is it ever used to refer unambiguously to activity beyond trade or exchange. … (further examining each and every use of the word that appeared in the state ratification convention reports and finding “the term was uniformly used to refer to trade or exchange”). Even a Constitutional scholar who has argued for an expansive interpretation of the Commerce Clause (and, in fact, has been cited to, and relied on, by the defendants in this case) has acknowledged that when the Constitution was drafted and ratified, commerce “was the practical equivalent of the word ʻtrade.ʼ” See Robert L. Stern, That Commerce Which Concerns More States than One, 47 Harv. L. Rev. 1335, 1346 (1934) (“Stern”).

The Supreme Courtʼs first description of commerce (and still the most widely accepted) is from Gibbons v. Ogden, [22 U.S. (9 Wheat.) 1 (1824)], which involved a New York law that sought to limit the navigable waters within the jurisdiction of that state. In holding that “commerce” comprehended navigation, and thus it fell within the reach of the Commerce Clause, Chief Justice Marshall explained that “Commerce, undoubtedly, is traffic, but it is something more: it is intercourse. It describes the commercial intercourse between nations, and parts of nations, in all its branches, and is regulated by prescribing rules for carrying on that intercourse.” 22 U.S. at 72. This definition is consistent with accepted dictionary definitions of the Foundersʼ time. See 1 Samuel Johnson, A Dictionary of the English Language (4th ed. 1773) (commerce defined as “Intercourse; exchange of one thing for another; interchange of any thing; trade; traffick”). And it remained a good definition of the Supreme Courtʼs Commerce Clause interpretation throughout the Nineteenth Century. See, e.g., Kidd v. Pearson, 128 U.S. 1, 20- 21, 9 S. Ct. 6, 32 L. Ed. 346 (1888) (“The legal definition of the term [commerce] . . . consists in intercourse and traffic, including in these terms navigation and the transportation and transit of persons and property, as well as the purchase, sale, and exchange of commodities”).

As Alexander Hamilton intimated in The Federalist, however, it did not at that time encompass manufacturing or agriculture. See The Federalist [Papers] No. 34, at 212-13 (noting that the “encouragement of agriculture and manufactures” was to remain an object of state expenditure).This interpretation of commerce as being primarily concerned with the commercial intercourse associated with the trade or exchange of goods and commodities is consistent with the original purpose of the Commerce Clause (discussed immediately below), which is entitled to “great influence in [its] construction.” See Gibbons, supra, at 188-89 11 [Note; the original “foot note 11” is presented in full at the end of this paper and is incorporated herein by reference.]

There is no doubt historically that the primary purpose behind the Commerce Clause was to give Congress power to regulate commerce so that it could eliminate the trade restrictions and barriers by and between the states that had existed under the Articles of Confederation. Such obstructions to commerce were destructive to the Union and believed to be precursors to war.
So?

Commerce does not include forcing automobile companies to install airbags in their cars or housing developers how many electrical outlets they have to put in a room.
 
Actually, they did establish unregulated capitalism. What kind of regulations on business did the federal government enforce in 1800?
Doesn't matter if they didn't have a one, they established, in the Constitution itself, the ability to regulate economic activity. That wasn't by accident.

No, actually they didn't. That's a lie that FDR managed to foist on the public. He extorted the Supreme Court into interpreting the Constitution the way he wanted it interpreted.

But you pretty much just admitted that we had unregulated capitalism until 1933.


In 1824 the Supreme Court strengthened the federal government's power to regulate interstate commerce with its decision in Gibbons v. Ogden, which involved the authority to license shipping. Steamboat operator Thomas Gibbons had secured only a federal license to run his business in New York State waters, which were controlled by a monopoly created through a state licensing system. A member of this monopoly, Aaron Ogden tried to shut down Gibbons's business by suing him for failing to have the proper New York State licenses. The Court ruled in favor of Gibbons and declared that commerce involved not only buying and selling but also transportation and navigation. By giving Congress the sole authority to regulate interstate transportation, this decision cleared the way for the United States to create a national transportation system that has continued to benefit business.

No it didn't. It also stated unequivocally that commerce consisted of trade, not of producing food or manufacturing.


And when you sell that food, or manufactured goods, that is trade. You need to stick your head back in the freezer. It's overheating again.

So the government can control how you sell it. It can't control how you make it or determine what is allowed to be made.
 
Doesn't matter if they didn't have a one, they established, in the Constitution itself, the ability to regulate economic activity. That wasn't by accident.

No, actually they didn't. That's a lie that FDR managed to foist on the public. He extorted the Supreme Court into interpreting the Constitution the way he wanted it interpreted.

But you pretty much just admitted that we had unregulated capitalism until 1933.
Help for you, again:

"The U.S. Constitution of 1789 gave the federal government authority to tax, stating that Congress has the power to "... lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States." and also "To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes." Tariffs between states is prohibited by the U.S. Constitution, and all domestically made products can be imported or shipped to another state tax-free."
Tariffs in United States history - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


What is the Original Intent!and True Meaning of the “Commerce!Clause”?

Consider the following parts of the “ORDER GRANTING SUMMARY JUDGMENT” by Judge Roger Vinson, of the UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE NORTHERN DISTRICT OF FLORIDA, PENSACOLA DIVISION, in Case No.: 3:10-cv-91-RV/EMT – Jan. 31, 2011.

[We encourage you to read the entire opinion and the referenced documents cited therein.]

Judge Vinsonʼs Analysis starts on page 19 and continues through page 37 of 78 in his Order. …

“The Commerce Clause is a mere sixteen words long, and it provides that Congress shall have the power:

To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes. U.S. Const. art I, § 8, cl. 3. …

There is considerable historical evidence that in the early years of the Union, the word “commerce” was understood to encompass trade, and the intercourse, traffic, or exchange of goods; in short, “the activities of buying and selling that come after production and before the goods come to rest.” …

In a frequently cited law review article, one Constitutional scholar has painstakingly tallied each appearance of the word “commerce” in Madisonʼs notes on the Constitutional Convention and in The Federalist [Papers], and discovered that in none of the ninety-seven appearances of that term is it ever used to refer unambiguously to activity beyond trade or exchange. … (further examining each and every use of the word that appeared in the state ratification convention reports and finding “the term was uniformly used to refer to trade or exchange”). Even a Constitutional scholar who has argued for an expansive interpretation of the Commerce Clause (and, in fact, has been cited to, and relied on, by the defendants in this case) has acknowledged that when the Constitution was drafted and ratified, commerce “was the practical equivalent of the word ʻtrade.ʼ” See Robert L. Stern, That Commerce Which Concerns More States than One, 47 Harv. L. Rev. 1335, 1346 (1934) (“Stern”).

The Supreme Courtʼs first description of commerce (and still the most widely accepted) is from Gibbons v. Ogden, [22 U.S. (9 Wheat.) 1 (1824)], which involved a New York law that sought to limit the navigable waters within the jurisdiction of that state. In holding that “commerce” comprehended navigation, and thus it fell within the reach of the Commerce Clause, Chief Justice Marshall explained that “Commerce, undoubtedly, is traffic, but it is something more: it is intercourse. It describes the commercial intercourse between nations, and parts of nations, in all its branches, and is regulated by prescribing rules for carrying on that intercourse.” 22 U.S. at 72. This definition is consistent with accepted dictionary definitions of the Foundersʼ time. See 1 Samuel Johnson, A Dictionary of the English Language (4th ed. 1773) (commerce defined as “Intercourse; exchange of one thing for another; interchange of any thing; trade; traffick”). And it remained a good definition of the Supreme Courtʼs Commerce Clause interpretation throughout the Nineteenth Century. See, e.g., Kidd v. Pearson, 128 U.S. 1, 20- 21, 9 S. Ct. 6, 32 L. Ed. 346 (1888) (“The legal definition of the term [commerce] . . . consists in intercourse and traffic, including in these terms navigation and the transportation and transit of persons and property, as well as the purchase, sale, and exchange of commodities”).

As Alexander Hamilton intimated in The Federalist, however, it did not at that time encompass manufacturing or agriculture. See The Federalist [Papers] No. 34, at 212-13 (noting that the “encouragement of agriculture and manufactures” was to remain an object of state expenditure).This interpretation of commerce as being primarily concerned with the commercial intercourse associated with the trade or exchange of goods and commodities is consistent with the original purpose of the Commerce Clause (discussed immediately below), which is entitled to “great influence in [its] construction.” See Gibbons, supra, at 188-89 11 [Note; the original “foot note 11” is presented in full at the end of this paper and is incorporated herein by reference.]

There is no doubt historically that the primary purpose behind the Commerce Clause was to give Congress power to regulate commerce so that it could eliminate the trade restrictions and barriers by and between the states that had existed under the Articles of Confederation. Such obstructions to commerce were destructive to the Union and believed to be precursors to war.
So?

Commerce does not include forcing automobile companies to install airbags in their cars or housing developers how many electrical outlets they have to put in a room.


Yes it does.
 
Venezuela Declares Another Emergency: It Has Run Out of Food
Venezuela-empty-shelves-Getty-640x480.jpg

Getty Images
by FRANCES MARTEL12 Feb 2016225

Venezuela’s opposition legislature has declared a “nutritional emergency,” proclaiming that the country simply does not have enough food to feed its population. The move comes after years of socialist rationing and shortages that forced millions to wait on lines lasting as long as six hours for a pint of milk, a bag of flour, or carton of cooking oil.
Opposition legislator Julio Borgesannounced the measure on Thursday, which would allow the legislature to push for more imports on basic food goods and inspect government-owned food companies to ensure they are meeting efficiency standards. “This will make corporations and expropriated lands produce food again, will simplify the process of national and foreign investment, and establish incentives for investors,” Borges promised.

Socialist party members are arguing that the decree goes beyond the scope of the power of the legislature and cannot override the executive decree President Nicolás Maduro put into motion in January, which declared an “economic emergency” and allowed the government to further intervene in private corporations. Venezuela’s Supreme Court extended the viability of the emergency decree this week, in a move many consider an attempt to keep the opposition legislature from asserting too much power over the food industry in Venezuela.


Venezuela Declares New Emergency: It Has Run Out of Food

I want European socialism.

Then go there.

Don't have to. It's coming here bit by bit. The Age of the RWnut is ending. This is the Age of the Democratic Socialist.

Perhaps. The long night of socialist tyranny is descending.
 
Sweden doing fine while Venezuela is failing is just one more bit of evidence at the superiority of an all White society over a Hispanic society.
the problem with the U.S is that the left is so afraid of minorities, they do anything they can to appease them.
Our version of socialism is going to match that of Venezuela, not Sweden.
 
No, actually they didn't. That's a lie that FDR managed to foist on the public. He extorted the Supreme Court into interpreting the Constitution the way he wanted it interpreted.

But you pretty much just admitted that we had unregulated capitalism until 1933.
Help for you, again:

"The U.S. Constitution of 1789 gave the federal government authority to tax, stating that Congress has the power to "... lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States." and also "To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes." Tariffs between states is prohibited by the U.S. Constitution, and all domestically made products can be imported or shipped to another state tax-free."
Tariffs in United States history - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


What is the Original Intent!and True Meaning of the “Commerce!Clause”?

Consider the following parts of the “ORDER GRANTING SUMMARY JUDGMENT” by Judge Roger Vinson, of the UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE NORTHERN DISTRICT OF FLORIDA, PENSACOLA DIVISION, in Case No.: 3:10-cv-91-RV/EMT – Jan. 31, 2011.

[We encourage you to read the entire opinion and the referenced documents cited therein.]

Judge Vinsonʼs Analysis starts on page 19 and continues through page 37 of 78 in his Order. …

“The Commerce Clause is a mere sixteen words long, and it provides that Congress shall have the power:

To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes. U.S. Const. art I, § 8, cl. 3. …

There is considerable historical evidence that in the early years of the Union, the word “commerce” was understood to encompass trade, and the intercourse, traffic, or exchange of goods; in short, “the activities of buying and selling that come after production and before the goods come to rest.” …

In a frequently cited law review article, one Constitutional scholar has painstakingly tallied each appearance of the word “commerce” in Madisonʼs notes on the Constitutional Convention and in The Federalist [Papers], and discovered that in none of the ninety-seven appearances of that term is it ever used to refer unambiguously to activity beyond trade or exchange. … (further examining each and every use of the word that appeared in the state ratification convention reports and finding “the term was uniformly used to refer to trade or exchange”). Even a Constitutional scholar who has argued for an expansive interpretation of the Commerce Clause (and, in fact, has been cited to, and relied on, by the defendants in this case) has acknowledged that when the Constitution was drafted and ratified, commerce “was the practical equivalent of the word ʻtrade.ʼ” See Robert L. Stern, That Commerce Which Concerns More States than One, 47 Harv. L. Rev. 1335, 1346 (1934) (“Stern”).

The Supreme Courtʼs first description of commerce (and still the most widely accepted) is from Gibbons v. Ogden, [22 U.S. (9 Wheat.) 1 (1824)], which involved a New York law that sought to limit the navigable waters within the jurisdiction of that state. In holding that “commerce” comprehended navigation, and thus it fell within the reach of the Commerce Clause, Chief Justice Marshall explained that “Commerce, undoubtedly, is traffic, but it is something more: it is intercourse. It describes the commercial intercourse between nations, and parts of nations, in all its branches, and is regulated by prescribing rules for carrying on that intercourse.” 22 U.S. at 72. This definition is consistent with accepted dictionary definitions of the Foundersʼ time. See 1 Samuel Johnson, A Dictionary of the English Language (4th ed. 1773) (commerce defined as “Intercourse; exchange of one thing for another; interchange of any thing; trade; traffick”). And it remained a good definition of the Supreme Courtʼs Commerce Clause interpretation throughout the Nineteenth Century. See, e.g., Kidd v. Pearson, 128 U.S. 1, 20- 21, 9 S. Ct. 6, 32 L. Ed. 346 (1888) (“The legal definition of the term [commerce] . . . consists in intercourse and traffic, including in these terms navigation and the transportation and transit of persons and property, as well as the purchase, sale, and exchange of commodities”).

As Alexander Hamilton intimated in The Federalist, however, it did not at that time encompass manufacturing or agriculture. See The Federalist [Papers] No. 34, at 212-13 (noting that the “encouragement of agriculture and manufactures” was to remain an object of state expenditure).This interpretation of commerce as being primarily concerned with the commercial intercourse associated with the trade or exchange of goods and commodities is consistent with the original purpose of the Commerce Clause (discussed immediately below), which is entitled to “great influence in [its] construction.” See Gibbons, supra, at 188-89 11 [Note; the original “foot note 11” is presented in full at the end of this paper and is incorporated herein by reference.]

There is no doubt historically that the primary purpose behind the Commerce Clause was to give Congress power to regulate commerce so that it could eliminate the trade restrictions and barriers by and between the states that had existed under the Articles of Confederation. Such obstructions to commerce were destructive to the Union and believed to be precursors to war.
So?

Commerce does not include forcing automobile companies to install airbags in their cars or housing developers how many electrical outlets they have to put in a room.


Yes it does.

Wrong.

"As Alexander Hamilton intimated in The Federalist, however, it did not at that time encompass manufacturing or agriculture. See The Federalist [Papers] No. 34, at 212-13 (noting that the “encouragement of agriculture and manufactures” was to remain an object of state expenditure).This interpretation of commerce as being primarily concerned with the commercial intercourse associated with the trade or exchange of goods and commodities is consistent with the original purpose of the Commerce Clause (discussed immediately below), which is entitled to “great influence in [its] construction.” See Gibbons, supra, at 188-89 11 [Note; the original “foot note 11” is presented in full at the end of this paper and is incorporated herein by reference.]"
 
Doesn't matter if they didn't have a one, they established, in the Constitution itself, the ability to regulate economic activity. That wasn't by accident.

No, actually they didn't. That's a lie that FDR managed to foist on the public. He extorted the Supreme Court into interpreting the Constitution the way he wanted it interpreted.

But you pretty much just admitted that we had unregulated capitalism until 1933.


In 1824 the Supreme Court strengthened the federal government's power to regulate interstate commerce with its decision in Gibbons v. Ogden, which involved the authority to license shipping. Steamboat operator Thomas Gibbons had secured only a federal license to run his business in New York State waters, which were controlled by a monopoly created through a state licensing system. A member of this monopoly, Aaron Ogden tried to shut down Gibbons's business by suing him for failing to have the proper New York State licenses. The Court ruled in favor of Gibbons and declared that commerce involved not only buying and selling but also transportation and navigation. By giving Congress the sole authority to regulate interstate transportation, this decision cleared the way for the United States to create a national transportation system that has continued to benefit business.

No it didn't. It also stated unequivocally that commerce consisted of trade, not of producing food or manufacturing.


And when you sell that food, or manufactured goods, that is trade. You need to stick your head back in the freezer. It's overheating again.

So the government can control how you sell it. It can't control how you make it or determine what is allowed to be made.


Right. They can make it any way they want, but if they want to sell it to the public, it has to meet certain standards.
 
Commerce does not include forcing automobile companies to install airbags in their cars or housing developers how many electrical outlets they have to put in a room.
It does now, and for good reasons, generally. Governments regulating capitalism isn't a new thing. It's the cost of doing business here. You use our courts, our roads, our schools to train up your workers, you follow our regulations.
 

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