Social Security faces a $32 trillion shortfall

[Al Azar]

Here you are completely wrong. You are discounting his response, but he is far from alone. 28 percent of the public thinks that SS is a ponzi scheme. The reason that you believe that there are few is because it is a silent group. By and large they aren't even willing to vote. (I cover the issue and largely they write me to tell me how wrong I am). They are very passionate, but unorganized. Once they coalesce politics will follow. Once the politics is there, then you will get news coverage.

"Completely wrong", eh? Show me a movement that changed anything with only 28% of the people involved supporting it.

 

[JoeTheEconomist]

Every single time. Literally....every.....single....time. Throughout history, conservatives have done their homework, used sound data for projections, and accurately predicted exactly what would happen. And every time, Dumbocrats were too hungry for power to care.

Conservatives vehemently opposed Medicare and Medicaid in the late 1960's. They said it was unsustainable. Not only do we now currently sit with $19 trillion in national debt, but even Barack Obama himself and the Dumbocrats went around the nation in 2008 insisting that we needed "Obamacare" because healthcare costs were "unaffordable" and Medicare & Medicaid were devastating to the federal budget. They loudly proclaimed that something had to be done because the current situation was unsustainable. Well, conservatives told them that over 50 years ago!

And of course - conservatives warned about Obamacare as well. All of their warnings have come to fruition (it did cause people to lose their doctor, it did cause people to lose their health insurance, it did cost way more than projected by the lying Dumbocrats, and 17 of the 23 insurance exchanges have already collapsed and closed up shop after just a couple of short years).

But the real gem is Social Security. Like the other unconstitutional programs already mentioned, conservatives vehemently opposed Social Security in the late 1930's. As always, they said it was unsustainable. As always, they were right. A mind-boggling $32 trillion shortfall. You could tax the wealthy at 100% and it wouldn't even cover 1/32 of that....

Under the infinite horizon, Social Security will have $32.1 trillion in unfunded liabilities by 2090, $6.3 trillion more than last year's projection. (See the chart below.)

The infinite horizon calculation is the most important part of the trustees' annual report, said Laurence Kotlikoff, a Boston University economics professor and co-author of "Get What's Yours," a best-seller about how to maximize claiming Social Security retirement benefits.

"We're not broke in 20 years to 30 years, we're broke now," Kotlikoff said. "All the bills have been kept off the books by Congress and presidential administrations for six decades."

Social Security faces a $32 trillion shortfall that will cut your benefit

It's funny how you always hear that Social Security and Medicare are running out of money, but never welfare.

What is funny is that meme doesn't die. One is a financial system with defined inputs and outputs. The other is an appropriated expense. If you think that welfare never gets cut try googling cuts to meals on wheels.

 

[JoeTheEconomist]

Here you are completely wrong. You are discounting his response, but he is far from alone. 28 percent of the public thinks that SS is a ponzi scheme. The reason that you believe that there are few is because it is a silent group. By and large they aren't even willing to vote. (I cover the issue and largely they write me to tell me how wrong I am). They are very passionate, but unorganized. Once they coalesce politics will follow. Once the politics is there, then you will get news coverage.

"Completely wrong", eh? Show me a movement that changed anything with only 28% of the people involved supporting it.

Try any environment group. Do you seriously think that the Snail Darter or the something-or-other ant in California has 28% of the public's consensus? Congress pays attention to organizations of voters, but not the individual voter. Sorry.

 

[Al Azar]

Try any environment group. Do you seriously think that the Snail Darter or the something-or-other ant in California has 28% of the public's consensus? Congress pays attention to organizations of voters, but not the individual voter. Sorry.

I hardly equate protecting the Snail Darter with fundamentally changing the most popular and successful social program in our history.

The member asked what good voting his preferences did for him. He asked why it didn't produce the outcome he desired. I replied that it was because so few people agreed with him. Whether they feel that the system is great or because they feel that voting on the matter isn't going to change anything, they don't agree with him.

 

[leftwinger]

One reason to be here is to expose or learn about issues. When overall tax payout from joesixpack may be as high as 60%, well I for one would like to know where my earned income is going. That's all.

Walk me thought the 60%. I think you are looking at the margin. The guy who makes $200,000 may pay 39% at the margin, but on the first 50K the rate is likely zero because of deductions and the exemptions and IRAs and expenses to pay the accountant.

One reason to be here is to expose or learn about issues. When overall tax payout from joesixpack may be as high as 60%, well I for one would like to know where my earned income is going. That's all.

Walk me thought the 60%. I think you are looking at the margin. The guy who makes $200,000 may pay 39% at the margin, but on the first 50K the rate is likely zero because of deductions and the exemptions and IRAs and expenses to pay the accountant.

I was thinking total tax paid out. Telephone, cable, trash, gas, fees, state fed local, property, sales, auto......I have seen reports totalling 50-60% depending on filing status and location.

 

[JoeTheEconomist]

One reason to be here is to expose or learn about issues. When overall tax payout from joesixpack may be as high as 60%, well I for one would like to know where my earned income is going. That's all.

Walk me thought the 60%. I think you are looking at the margin. The guy who makes $200,000 may pay 39% at the margin, but on the first 50K the rate is likely zero because of deductions and the exemptions and IRAs and expenses to pay the accountant.

One reason to be here is to expose or learn about issues. When overall tax payout from joesixpack may be as high as 60%, well I for one would like to know where my earned income is going. That's all.

Walk me thought the 60%. I think you are looking at the margin. The guy who makes $200,000 may pay 39% at the margin, but on the first 50K the rate is likely zero because of deductions and the exemptions and IRAs and expenses to pay the accountant.

I was thinking total tax paid out. Telephone, cable, trash, gas, fees, state fed local, property, sales, auto......I have seen reports totalling 50-60% depending on filing status and location.

My guess is that is marginal tax rate not total tax rate.

I am not disagreeing with you. the combined tax burden in this country is crazy. Payroll is a first dollar tax. That is 15.3% but it has limits and only applies to earned income. Something like 35-40% of the public has zero federal tax liability. My state GA is a larger commitment. It is with auto, property, and income tax 10-15 percent without sales tax. My guess is that most people are in the 30 percent range - which is an insane amount - for total tax / total income.

 

[Al Azar]

One reason to be here is to expose or learn about issues. When overall tax payout from joesixpack may be as high as 60%, well I for one would like to know where my earned income is going. That's all.

Walk me thought the 60%. I think you are looking at the margin. The guy who makes $200,000 may pay 39% at the margin, but on the first 50K the rate is likely zero because of deductions and the exemptions and IRAs and expenses to pay the accountant.

One reason to be here is to expose or learn about issues. When overall tax payout from joesixpack may be as high as 60%, well I for one would like to know where my earned income is going. That's all.

Walk me thought the 60%. I think you are looking at the margin. The guy who makes $200,000 may pay 39% at the margin, but on the first 50K the rate is likely zero because of deductions and the exemptions and IRAs and expenses to pay the accountant.

I was thinking total tax paid out. Telephone, cable, trash, gas, fees, state fed local, property, sales, auto......I have seen reports totalling 50-60% depending on filing status and location.

That's what I was referring to when taking of "working" taxpayers. I don't work and all those taxes in our case total approximately 3% of our gross income.

 

[leftwinger]

One reason to be here is to expose or learn about issues. When overall tax payout from joesixpack may be as high as 60%, well I for one would like to know where my earned income is going. That's all.

Walk me thought the 60%. I think you are looking at the margin. The guy who makes $200,000 may pay 39% at the margin, but on the first 50K the rate is likely zero because of deductions and the exemptions and IRAs and expenses to pay the accountant.

One reason to be here is to expose or learn about issues. When overall tax payout from joesixpack may be as high as 60%, well I for one would like to know where my earned income is going. That's all.

Walk me thought the 60%. I think you are looking at the margin. The guy who makes $200,000 may pay 39% at the margin, but on the first 50K the rate is likely zero because of deductions and the exemptions and IRAs and expenses to pay the accountant.

I was thinking total tax paid out. Telephone, cable, trash, gas, fees, state fed local, property, sales, auto......I have seen reports totalling 50-60% depending on filing status and location.

That's what I was referring to when taking of "working" taxpayers. I don't work and all those taxes in our case total approximately 3% of our gross income.

I was using worst case CA high income example......~39% fed, 13%state, 1.125% property, 8.5% sales,


It adds up. A $100K earner, in a $1mil CA home. Pays how much total tax? I think the 30% tax paid overall (other poster) is probably closer to bottom line reality than 60% I threw out there. But that's another thread....sigh.

 

[JoeTheEconomist]

One reason to be here is to expose or learn about issues. When overall tax payout from joesixpack may be as high as 60%, well I for one would like to know where my earned income is going. That's all.

Walk me thought the 60%. I think you are looking at the margin. The guy who makes $200,000 may pay 39% at the margin, but on the first 50K the rate is likely zero because of deductions and the exemptions and IRAs and expenses to pay the accountant.

One reason to be here is to expose or learn about issues. When overall tax payout from joesixpack may be as high as 60%, well I for one would like to know where my earned income is going. That's all.

Walk me thought the 60%. I think you are looking at the margin. The guy who makes $200,000 may pay 39% at the margin, but on the first 50K the rate is likely zero because of deductions and the exemptions and IRAs and expenses to pay the accountant.

I was thinking total tax paid out. Telephone, cable, trash, gas, fees, state fed local, property, sales, auto......I have seen reports totalling 50-60% depending on filing status and location.

That's what I was referring to when taking of "working" taxpayers. I don't work and all those taxes in our case total approximately 3% of our gross income.

I was using worst case CA high income example......~39% fed, 13%state, 1.125% property, 8.5% sales,


It adds up. A $100K earner, in a $1mil CA home. Pays how much total tax? I think the 30% tax paid overall (other poster) is probably closer to bottom line reality than 60% I threw out there. But that's another thread....sigh.

Ask yourself where the 100K earner gets a $1 million house? From the bank, which is going to make his interest deductible. By the end of the deductions, he is probably paying 15% federal. The tax pressure lessens on workers over $118,500 because SS goes away. To me the worst case is the single earner, who loses money on SS. He is paying 25% federal (at the margin) + 15.3 payroll + 10% state + 1 or 2 percent local + sales tax + property tax + beer and smoking taxes. It adds up.