Socialism vs Capitalism Controlled Experiment - Look No Further than Korea

[Boss]

What modern American Democrats are proposing Marxism?

None are... I explained why... they CAN'T!

Communism has such a deplorable history, they can't possibly pedal Marxism now. The ONLY hope is to repackage Marxism as something else.... enter: Democratic Socialism.

Redistribution of wealth, Federal control of business and commerce, either through outright ownership or taxes and regulation, the elimination of private property rights, the incremental turning over of private free enterprise to government agents... is all Marxist Socialism which is the stated means of achieving Communist Utopia.

IOW, Democrats promote a version of mixed socialism and capitalism that can in fact work.

No, Democrats promote Marxism disguised as something more palpable which they claim will work. A lot of dupes are fooled into believing their rhetoric. This same thing has been happening all across Europe and that's why it's the preferred viewpoint of the liberal left.

 

[Boss]

What modern American Democrats are proposing Marxism?

None are... I explained why... they CAN'T!

Communism has such a deplorable history, they can't possibly pedal Marxism now. The ONLY hope is to repackage Marxism as something else.... enter: Democratic Socialism.

Redistribution of wealth, Federal control of business and commerce, either through outright ownership or taxes and regulation, the elimination of private property rights, the incremental turning over of private free enterprise to government agents... is all Marxist Socialism which is the stated means of achieving Communist Utopia.

Correction: They can't peddle it openly. However, they do peddle under other names, like "sustainable communities," "environmentalism," and a hundred other leftwing euphemisms.

Anything BUT Marxist Socialism because they KNOW that dog won't hunt. Their ONLY hope of forwarding their Communist Utopian vision is to deceive you into believing in some "new type" of Socialism. A rose by any other name....

 

[EriktheRed]

First, there are conservatives who argue against Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid, who say that taxes are theft, who want to shut down one government program and agency after another. That's up to them, but they appear to be forgetting that there are people who think those programs are just fine.

And again, the depth and breadth of government and its costs exist on a continuum, it's not all or nothing. Increasing an income tax rate by 2% or 5% or 7% doesn't turn us overnight from "not socialist" to "socialist'. Obviously North Korea and Cuba and Venezuela are on the far end of this spectrum, and no one is arguing for those systems. Obviously Sweden and Denmark and Germany and France are to the right of those countries.

This isn't a zero sum game. But my point is that more and more people are more and more open to the "socialism" level of much of Europe, and simply screaming "socialism" to scare them isn't going to work, not any more.

Well the problem is, people need to be educated on what Socialism really is. The nonsensical arguments from the Socialists need to be rejected as the nonsense they are and people need to be made aware of the insidious agenda of Marxist Socialism, which is what every "Democratic Socialist" is espousing.

It's not about scaring anyone... it's about the reality of what we're doing. We are systematically destroying a vibrant and successful free market capitalist republic in order to replace it with a failed 18th century idea that has never worked. It's not working in Europe right now, it has never worked in any place it has been tried and it never will.

We live in a nation of dummies who are so ignorant of history due to their indoctrination of "public education" which has taught them nothing, and they are brainwashed into believing the rhetoric of Marxist Socialists.... it makes them feel good... they believe they are supporting the little guy... they believe this is the solution to all our problems. And once they have turned over all their freedom to the State, they will discover what a huge blunder they made and it will be too late. That's how virtually every totalitarian Communist regime began.

When I studied about these brutal and terrible Communist regimes, I remember thinking... why did these people allow this to happen? How could they have let their freedom go like that? But as I have grown older, I realize exactly how... propaganda. We're seeing it happen right before our very eyes.... Corporation and bankers are made into evil entities... class warfare is constantly drilled into our heads... we're inundated with arguments regarding "the rich" or "the top 1%" and the "greedy capitalists" ...versus "the workers" and the "middle class" and "the poor." As if no one ever leaves their class.... we're stuck in our classes like 17th century proles and serfs under a ruler or king. BUT WE'RE NOT! We live in a FREE society! We have FREE enterprise... We have a FREE market! We can be in ANY class we desire to be in... it's the American Dream!

We cannot get there through Marxist/Socialist Communist Utopia.... it fails every time.

Thankfully, fewer people are subscribing to your absolutist view on the subject.

Sucks to be you, I guess.

 

[georgephillip]

The roots of US capitalism...

"Slavery is fundamentally an economic phenomenon. Throughout history, slavery has existed where it has been economically worthwhile to those in power. The principal example in modern times is the U.S. South. Nearly 4 million slaves with a market value estimated to be between $3.1 and $3.6 billion lived in the U.S. just before the Civil War. Masters enjoyed rates of return on slaves comparable to those on other assets; cotton consumers, insurance companies, and industrial enterprises benefited from slavery as well. Such valuable property required rules to protect it, and the institutional practices surrounding slavery display a sophistication that rivals modern-day law and business."

Slavery in the United States

 

[Markle]

Obviously youre an idiot. S. Korea has some of the worst poverty I have ever witnessed and I grew up in the ghetto. If it were not for they US military presence it would be even worse.

You are obviously confused. South Korea has an identical economy as Hong Kong, Singapor, and Taiwan. That would be a highly free market with marked growth. The vast majority of people live in urban areas, in high rises.

From Wiki....
A period of liberalization did occur, and the first major setback experienced by the Tiger economies was the 1997 Asian financial crisis. While Singapore and Taiwanwere relatively unscathed, Hong Kong came under intense speculative attacks against its stock market and currency necessitating unprecedented market interventions by the state Hong Kong Monetary Authority, and South Korea underwent a major stock market crash brought on by high levels of non-performing corporate loans. As a result, and in the years after the crisis, all four economies rebounded strongly. South Korea, the worst-hit of the Tigers, has managed to triple its GDP per capita in dollar terms since 1997.

Read more: South Korea - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Markle]

I suggest that you read up on the situation in Venezuela and get back to us.

How about Greece?

 

[GHook93]

Is this a serious thread?

You know no one is proposing communism here, right?

You know that South Korea employs "socialism", right?

You know that North Korea is run by an insane dictator who has isolated his country from the rest of the world, right?

Of course you don't. That's why you created this retarded thread.

Yes and government is in control of every aspect of society including the total take over of private business and property. Yes liberal desire this and yes Bernie sanders has praised Cuba and Venezuela.

South Korea is a capitalistic free market based economy.

South Korea has universal healthcare via mandatory insurance. Should we emulate that?

There is no country on the planet practices pure capitalism. So the fact that you can point out aspect of SK that are socialist is a red herring.

 

[GHook93]

Prior to WW II Korea was a poor 3rd world country. During WWII Korea was occupied and devastated by Japan. After WW II the Soviets took the north and established a communist/socialist society and the US took the south and established a capitalist society. The Korean War strengthen the total separation of these two new societies.

You should know all Koreans were already planning to reunite their country in 1945 before the US occupied the southern part of the peninsula:

"Lyuh Woon-hyung or Yo Un-hyung (May 25, 1886 – July 19, 1947) was a Korean politician who argued that Korean independence was essential to world peace, and a reunification activist who struggled for the independent reunification of Korea since its national division in 1945.

"His pen-name was Mongyang (몽양; 夢陽), the Hanja for 'dream' and 'light.'

"He is rare among politicians in modern Korean history in that he is revered in both South and North Korea.

Lyuh Woon-hyung - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Did you notice the part about Korean independence being essential to world peace?

You are an uneducated revisionist. There were talks about unification and then the Soviet backed North invaded and nearly took the entire peninsula. The US was taken off guard and didn't want an armed conflict only 5 yrs after WW II. We eventually did the right thing and entered the war and pushed back the commies to the Chinese then the Chinese entered the war and it was fought to a stalemate. 10s of millions people were able to live under a free capitalistic government.

 

[Slyhunter]

Nope, the SK government is minuscule and was even smaller in the past.

If you want to study how government action can work, please move to North Korea. There is no reason to believe the government policies were in any part responsible for the success... when indeed the only difference between the two nations is big government... and one is a failure.

Read the damn thread. The links to all of the government policy and controls have been published.

When you start with a Five-Year Plan, that ain't no Free Market capitalism.

If that plan is 0.2% of the economy, yes it is.

It wasn't.

Compared to the disaster of North Korea, it sure was.

Even today, Korea has smaller government than the USA, even if it's not necessarily freer nation.

Govt Spending in Korea (trading economics % of economy - the statistic might not be aggregated).

So, was it the 10% of government spending, or the 90% (roughly) of private sector that made Korea successful?

I will take my bets.

Now we have proven that capitalism works not only better than socialism, but also that it works, while socialism doesn't work.

Socialism works, you just don't like it.

And I couldn't care less but don't give us any bullshit about SK being a free market paradise.

Where.

 

[Jack4jill]

Read the damn thread. The links to all of the government policy and controls have been published.

When you start with a Five-Year Plan, that ain't no Free Market capitalism.

If that plan is 0.2% of the economy, yes it is.

It wasn't.

Compared to the disaster of North Korea, it sure was.

Even today, Korea has smaller government than the USA, even if it's not necessarily freer nation.

Govt Spending in Korea (trading economics % of economy - the statistic might not be aggregated).

So, was it the 10% of government spending, or the 90% (roughly) of private sector that made Korea successful?

I will take my bets.

Now we have proven that capitalism works not only better than socialism, but also that it works, while socialism doesn't work.

Socialism works, you just don't like it.

And I couldn't care less but don't give us any bullshit about SK being a free market paradise.

Where.

Start with Nordic nations.

 

[Slyhunter]

If that plan is 0.2% of the economy, yes it is.

It wasn't.

Compared to the disaster of North Korea, it sure was.

Even today, Korea has smaller government than the USA, even if it's not necessarily freer nation.

Govt Spending in Korea (trading economics % of economy - the statistic might not be aggregated).

So, was it the 10% of government spending, or the 90% (roughly) of private sector that made Korea successful?

I will take my bets.

Now we have proven that capitalism works not only better than socialism, but also that it works, while socialism doesn't work.

Socialism works, you just don't like it.

And I couldn't care less but don't give us any bullshit about SK being a free market paradise.

Where.

Start with Nordic nations.

Tiny controlled groups. Not massive countries.

 

[Jack4jill]

It wasn't.

Compared to the disaster of North Korea, it sure was.

Even today, Korea has smaller government than the USA, even if it's not necessarily freer nation.

Govt Spending in Korea (trading economics % of economy - the statistic might not be aggregated).

So, was it the 10% of government spending, or the 90% (roughly) of private sector that made Korea successful?

I will take my bets.

Now we have proven that capitalism works not only better than socialism, but also that it works, while socialism doesn't work.

Socialism works, you just don't like it.

And I couldn't care less but don't give us any bullshit about SK being a free market paradise.

Where.

Start with Nordic nations.

Tiny controlled groups. Not massive countries.

Look, if you're one of those dummies who doesn't know Econ101 and here to denounce anything but anarcho-capitalism, shove it, I'm not interested.

 

[bripat9643]

If that plan is 0.2% of the economy, yes it is.

It wasn't.

Compared to the disaster of North Korea, it sure was.

Even today, Korea has smaller government than the USA, even if it's not necessarily freer nation.

Govt Spending in Korea (trading economics % of economy - the statistic might not be aggregated).

So, was it the 10% of government spending, or the 90% (roughly) of private sector that made Korea successful?

I will take my bets.

Now we have proven that capitalism works not only better than socialism, but also that it works, while socialism doesn't work.

Socialism works, you just don't like it.

And I couldn't care less but don't give us any bullshit about SK being a free market paradise.

Where.

Start with Nordic nations.

Ah, you mean countries that are populated by white people. Are you a racist?

 

[bripat9643]

Compared to the disaster of North Korea, it sure was.

Even today, Korea has smaller government than the USA, even if it's not necessarily freer nation.

Govt Spending in Korea (trading economics % of economy - the statistic might not be aggregated).

So, was it the 10% of government spending, or the 90% (roughly) of private sector that made Korea successful?

I will take my bets.

Now we have proven that capitalism works not only better than socialism, but also that it works, while socialism doesn't work.

Socialism works, you just don't like it.

And I couldn't care less but don't give us any bullshit about SK being a free market paradise.

Where.

Start with Nordic nations.

Tiny controlled groups. Not massive countries.

Look, if you're one of those dummies who doesn't know Econ101 and here to denounce anything but anarcho-capitalism, shove it, I'm not interested.

Anarcho-capitalism is the logical conclusion of economics.

 

[francoHFW]

Socialism and democracy are the toppers.

OP- There is no such thing as socialism/communism. That only exists in Pub Dupe Ville. One is ALWAYS democratic the other NEVER. DUH.

 

[francoHFW]

Socialism works, you just don't like it.

And I couldn't care less but don't give us any bullshit about SK being a free market paradise.

Where.

Start with Nordic nations.

Tiny controlled groups. Not massive countries.

Look, if you're one of those dummies who doesn't know Econ101 and here to denounce anything but anarcho-capitalism, shove it, I'm not interested.

Anarcho-capitalism is the logical conclusion of economics.

One is a form of gov't, the other of economics. Anarchy works about as well as communism.

 

[bripat9643]

Where.

Start with Nordic nations.

Tiny controlled groups. Not massive countries.

Look, if you're one of those dummies who doesn't know Econ101 and here to denounce anything but anarcho-capitalism, shove it, I'm not interested.

Anarcho-capitalism is the logical conclusion of economics.

One is a form of gov't, the other of economics. Anarchy works about as well as communism.

I never heard about 100 million people being killed under anarchy. Have you?

 

[francoHFW]

Start with Nordic nations.

Tiny controlled groups. Not massive countries.

Look, if you're one of those dummies who doesn't know Econ101 and here to denounce anything but anarcho-capitalism, shove it, I'm not interested.

Anarcho-capitalism is the logical conclusion of economics.

One is a form of gov't, the other of economics. Anarchy works about as well as communism.

I never heard about 100 million people being killed under anarchy. Have you?

Anarchy has never been tried, and never will be.

 

[bripat9643]

Tiny controlled groups. Not massive countries.

Look, if you're one of those dummies who doesn't know Econ101 and here to denounce anything but anarcho-capitalism, shove it, I'm not interested.

Anarcho-capitalism is the logical conclusion of economics.

One is a form of gov't, the other of economics. Anarchy works about as well as communism.

I never heard about 100 million people being killed under anarchy. Have you?

Anarchy has never been tried, and never will be.

Sure it has. There was no state prior to 3000 BCE. Yet, there were cities and towns.

There have been a number of societies with no formal state, like Medieval Ireland and Scotland. Gaul before the Roman conquest, was also a stateless society.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Prior to WW II Korea was a poor 3rd world country. During WWII Korea was occupied and devastated by Japan. After WW II the Soviets took the north and established a communist/socialist society and the US took the south and established a capitalist society. The Korean War strengthen the total separation of these two new societies.

Both countries have all similar traits: same people (Koreans), similar coastal land, similar natural resources, similar land mass etc. Yet the only difference is the north adopted communism/socialism and the south adopted capitalism.

The results are undeniable and telling. South Korea became a rich, 1st world, industrialized nation and a country to envy. North Korea is a 3rd world shit hole, that has a horrible economy, no exports, produces nothing and there are annual food storage in which a good percentage of the population starve.

But let socialist like Bernie and his lazy followers tell you the joy of socialism.

The North didn't really make Communism or Socialism. They made Kim-ism. Kim-ism isn't very good.