Socialism vs Capitalism Controlled Experiment - Look No Further than Korea

[Jack4jill]

How South Korea became South Korea - lots of socialism: ERIEP

Government action can work, kids, when you are actually governing that is.

Nope, the SK government is minuscule and was even smaller in the past.

If you want to study how government action can work, please move to North Korea. There is no reason to believe the government policies were in any part responsible for the success... when indeed the only difference between the two nations is big government... and one is a failure.

Read the damn thread. The links to all of the government policy and controls have been published.

When you start with a Five-Year Plan, that ain't no Free Market capitalism.

If that plan is 0.2% of the economy, yes it is.

It wasn't.

Compared to the disaster of North Korea, it sure was.

Even today, Korea has smaller government than the USA, even if it's not necessarily freer nation.

Govt Spending in Korea (trading economics % of economy - the statistic might not be aggregated).

So, was it the 10% of government spending, or the 90% (roughly) of private sector that made Korea successful?

I will take my bets.

Now we have proven that capitalism works not only better than socialism, but also that it works, while socialism doesn't work.

Socialism works, you just don't like it.

And I couldn't care less but don't give us any bullshit about SK being a free market paradise.

 

[GHook93]

Is this a serious thread?

You know no one is proposing communism here, right?

You know that South Korea employs "socialism", right?

You know that North Korea is run by an insane dictator who has isolated his country from the rest of the world, right?

Of course you don't. That's why you created this retarded thread.

Yes and government is in control of every aspect of society including the total take over of private business and property. Yes liberal desire this and yes Bernie sanders has praised Cuba and Venezuela.

South Korea is a capitalistic free market based economy.

 

[GHook93]

Prior to WW II Korea was a poor 3rd world country. During WWII Korea was occupied and devastated by Japan. After WW II the Soviets took the north and established a communist/socialist society and the US took the south and established a capitalist society. The Korean War strengthen the total separation of these two new societies.

Both countries have all similar traits: same people (Koreans), similar coastal land, similar natural resources, similar land mass etc. Yet the only difference is the north adopted communism/socialism and the south adopted capitalism.

The results are undeniable and telling. South Korea became a rich, 1st world, industrialized nation and a country to envy. North Korea is a 3rd world shit hole, that has a horrible economy, no exports, produces nothing and there are annual food storage in which a good percentage of the population starve.

But let socialist like Bernie and his lazy followers tell you the joy of socialism.

This fails as a preach to the choir fallacy, no one advocates for "socialism," including Sanders.

Sure small fry! The Democratic base is all about socialism and the Bern openly calls himself a socialist.

 

[GHook93]

Prior to WW II Korea was a poor 3rd world country. During WWII Korea was occupied and devastated by Japan. After WW II the Soviets took the north and established a communist/socialist society and the US took the south and established a capitalist society. The Korean War strengthen the total separation of these two new societies.

Both countries have all similar traits: same people (Koreans), similar coastal land, similar natural resources, similar land mass etc. Yet the only difference is the north adopted communism/socialism and the south adopted capitalism.

The results are undeniable and telling. South Korea became a rich, 1st world, industrialized nation and a country to envy. North Korea is a 3rd world shit hole, that has a horrible economy, no exports, produces nothing and there are annual food storage in which a good percentage of the population starve.

But let socialist like Bernie and his lazy followers tell you the joy of socialism.

Obviously youre an idiot. S. Korea has some of the worst poverty I have ever witnessed and I grew up in the ghetto. If it were not for they US military presence it would be even worse.

Every country has poverty. South Korea is one of the most successful countries in the world and that is despite their lack of natural resources.

 

[boedicca]

Nope, the SK government is minuscule and was even smaller in the past.

If you want to study how government action can work, please move to North Korea. There is no reason to believe the government policies were in any part responsible for the success... when indeed the only difference between the two nations is big government... and one is a failure.

Read the damn thread. The links to all of the government policy and controls have been published.

When you start with a Five-Year Plan, that ain't no Free Market capitalism.

If that plan is 0.2% of the economy, yes it is.

It wasn't.

Compared to the disaster of North Korea, it sure was.

Even today, Korea has smaller government than the USA, even if it's not necessarily freer nation.

Govt Spending in Korea (trading economics % of economy - the statistic might not be aggregated).

So, was it the 10% of government spending, or the 90% (roughly) of private sector that made Korea successful?

I will take my bets.

Now we have proven that capitalism works not only better than socialism, but also that it works, while socialism doesn't work.

Socialism works, you just don't like it.

And I couldn't care less but don't give us any bullshit about SK being a free market paradise.

Socialism works if your definition of "works" means that the Ruling Elite get very wealth while the average folks' lives are impoverished and miserable.

 

[GHook93]

Prior to WW II Korea was a poor 3rd world country. During WWII Korea was occupied and devastated by Japan. After WW II the Soviets took the north and established a communist/socialist society and the US took the south and established a capitalist society. The Korean War strengthen the total separation of these two new societies.

Both countries have all similar traits: same people (Koreans), similar coastal land, similar natural resources, similar land mass etc. Yet the only difference is the north adopted communism/socialism and the south adopted capitalism.

The results are undeniable and telling. South Korea became a rich, 1st world, industrialized nation and a country to envy. North Korea is a 3rd world shit hole, that has a horrible economy, no exports, produces nothing and there are annual food storage in which a good percentage of the population starve.

But let socialist like Bernie and his lazy followers tell you the joy of socialism.

Do you know the difference between socialism and a totalitarian family dictatorship?

Yes chief socialism always leads to the central government growth to the point of totalitarianism.

 

[Mac1958]

Again, conservatives are making a mistake by just screaming "socialism!". That. Doesn't. Work. Any. More.

Liberals are now proudly advocating for democratic socialism, and they're pointing at Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security as examples.

People see those programs and think, "well, I like those programs, and if that's socialism, I guess I like socialism".

How in the world are conservatives not seeing this?
.

 

[Correll]

Prior to WW II Korea was a poor 3rd world country. During WWII Korea was occupied and devastated by Japan. After WW II the Soviets took the north and established a communist/socialist society and the US took the south and established a capitalist society. The Korean War strengthen the total separation of these two new societies.

Both countries have all similar traits: same people (Koreans), similar coastal land, similar natural resources, similar land mass etc. Yet the only difference is the north adopted communism/socialism and the south adopted capitalism.

The results are undeniable and telling. South Korea became a rich, 1st world, industrialized nation and a country to envy. North Korea is a 3rd world shit hole, that has a horrible economy, no exports, produces nothing and there are annual food storage in which a good percentage of the population starve.

But let socialist like Bernie and his lazy followers tell you the joy of socialism.

You saw similar results with Germany.

 

[Boss]

Again, conservatives are making a mistake by just screaming "socialism!". That. Doesn't. Work. Any. More.

Liberals are now proudly advocating for democratic socialism, and they're pointing at Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security as examples.

People see those programs and think, "well, I like those programs, and if that's socialism, I guess I like socialism".

How in the world are conservatives not seeing this?
.

Sorry, but Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid are not Socialism. Neither are roads, bridges, police and fire services. Conservatives DO see this, they point it out all the time.

There is no such thing as "democratic" socialism. It's an oxymoron. By it's very nature, socialism is un-democratic. It is the taking of your freedom and delivering it to the state authority so decisions are made on your behalf. This is a FAR cry from you and I collectively deciding that everyone in our community should contribute to fire and police services or roads and bridges.

The reason Marxists run away from their label and pretend what they espouse is "democratic socialism" is because of the atrocious track record of their ideology. They are well aware of this and seek to deceive people by disguising their rhetoric as something more desirable. They point to examples of mutual cooperatives done under constitutional enumerated powers of government, when that has NEVER been Socialism.

 

[Mac1958]

Again, conservatives are making a mistake by just screaming "socialism!". That. Doesn't. Work. Any. More.

Liberals are now proudly advocating for democratic socialism, and they're pointing at Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security as examples.

People see those programs and think, "well, I like those programs, and if that's socialism, I guess I like socialism".

How in the world are conservatives not seeing this?
.

Sorry, but Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid are not Socialism. Neither are roads, bridges, police and fire services. Conservatives DO see this, they point it out all the time.

There is no such thing as "democratic" socialism. It's an oxymoron. By it's very nature, socialism is un-democratic. It is the taking of your freedom and delivering it to the state authority so decisions are made on your behalf. This is a FAR cry from you and I collectively deciding that everyone in our community should contribute to fire and police services or roads and bridges.

The reason Marxists run away from their label and pretend what they espouse is "democratic socialism" is because of the atrocious track record of their ideology. They are well aware of this and seek to deceive people by disguising their rhetoric as something more desirable. They point to examples of mutual cooperatives done under constitutional enumerated powers of government, when that has NEVER been Socialism.

First, there are conservatives who argue against Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid, who say that taxes are theft, who want to shut down one government program and agency after another. That's up to them, but they appear to be forgetting that there are people who think those programs are just fine.

And again, the depth and breadth of government and its costs exist on a continuum, it's not all or nothing. Increasing an income tax rate by 2% or 5% or 7% doesn't turn us overnight from "not socialist" to "socialist'. Obviously North Korea and Cuba and Venezuela are on the far end of this spectrum, and no one is arguing for those systems. Obviously Sweden and Denmark and Germany and France are to the right of those countries.

This isn't a zero sum game. But my point is that more and more people are more and more open to the "socialism" level of much of Europe, and simply screaming "socialism" to scare them isn't going to work, not any more.
.

 

[georgephillip]

Prior to WW II Korea was a poor 3rd world country. During WWII Korea was occupied and devastated by Japan. After WW II the Soviets took the north and established a communist/socialist society and the US took the south and established a capitalist society. The Korean War strengthen the total separation of these two new societies.

You should know all Koreans were already planning to reunite their country in 1945 before the US occupied the southern part of the peninsula:

"Lyuh Woon-hyung or Yo Un-hyung (May 25, 1886 – July 19, 1947) was a Korean politician who argued that Korean independence was essential to world peace, and a reunification activist who struggled for the independent reunification of Korea since its national division in 1945.

"His pen-name was Mongyang (몽양; 夢陽), the Hanja for 'dream' and 'light.'

"He is rare among politicians in modern Korean history in that he is revered in both South and North Korea.

Lyuh Woon-hyung - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Did you notice the part about Korean independence being essential to world peace?

 

[Boss]

First, there are conservatives who argue against Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid, who say that taxes are theft, who want to shut down one government program and agency after another. That's up to them, but they appear to be forgetting that there are people who think those programs are just fine.

And again, the depth and breadth of government and its costs exist on a continuum, it's not all or nothing. Increasing an income tax rate by 2% or 5% or 7% doesn't turn us overnight from "not socialist" to "socialist'. Obviously North Korea and Cuba and Venezuela are on the far end of this spectrum, and no one is arguing for those systems. Obviously Sweden and Denmark and Germany and France are to the right of those countries.

This isn't a zero sum game. But my point is that more and more people are more and more open to the "socialism" level of much of Europe, and simply screaming "socialism" to scare them isn't going to work, not any more.

Well the problem is, people need to be educated on what Socialism really is. The nonsensical arguments from the Socialists need to be rejected as the nonsense they are and people need to be made aware of the insidious agenda of Marxist Socialism, which is what every "Democratic Socialist" is espousing.

It's not about scaring anyone... it's about the reality of what we're doing. We are systematically destroying a vibrant and successful free market capitalist republic in order to replace it with a failed 18th century idea that has never worked. It's not working in Europe right now, it has never worked in any place it has been tried and it never will.

We live in a nation of dummies who are so ignorant of history due to their indoctrination of "public education" which has taught them nothing, and they are brainwashed into believing the rhetoric of Marxist Socialists.... it makes them feel good... they believe they are supporting the little guy... they believe this is the solution to all our problems. And once they have turned over all their freedom to the State, they will discover what a huge blunder they made and it will be too late. That's how virtually every totalitarian Communist regime began.

When I studied about these brutal and terrible Communist regimes, I remember thinking... why did these people allow this to happen? How could they have let their freedom go like that? But as I have grown older, I realize exactly how... propaganda. We're seeing it happen right before our very eyes.... Corporation and bankers are made into evil entities... class warfare is constantly drilled into our heads... we're inundated with arguments regarding "the rich" or "the top 1%" and the "greedy capitalists" ...versus "the workers" and the "middle class" and "the poor." As if no one ever leaves their class.... we're stuck in our classes like 17th century proles and serfs under a ruler or king. BUT WE'RE NOT! We live in a FREE society! We have FREE enterprise... We have a FREE market! We can be in ANY class we desire to be in... it's the American Dream!

We cannot get there through Marxist/Socialist Communist Utopia.... it fails every time.

 

[NYcarbineer]

First, there are conservatives who argue against Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid, who say that taxes are theft, who want to shut down one government program and agency after another. That's up to them, but they appear to be forgetting that there are people who think those programs are just fine.

And again, the depth and breadth of government and its costs exist on a continuum, it's not all or nothing. Increasing an income tax rate by 2% or 5% or 7% doesn't turn us overnight from "not socialist" to "socialist'. Obviously North Korea and Cuba and Venezuela are on the far end of this spectrum, and no one is arguing for those systems. Obviously Sweden and Denmark and Germany and France are to the right of those countries.

This isn't a zero sum game. But my point is that more and more people are more and more open to the "socialism" level of much of Europe, and simply screaming "socialism" to scare them isn't going to work, not any more.

Well the problem is, people need to be educated on what Socialism really is. The nonsensical arguments from the Socialists need to be rejected as the nonsense they are and people need to be made aware of the insidious agenda of Marxist Socialism, which is what every "Democratic Socialist" is espousing.

It's not about scaring anyone... it's about the reality of what we're doing. We are systematically destroying a vibrant and successful free market capitalist republic in order to replace it with a failed 18th century idea that has never worked. It's not working in Europe right now, it has never worked in any place it has been tried and it never will.

We live in a nation of dummies who are so ignorant of history due to their indoctrination of "public education" which has taught them nothing, and they are brainwashed into believing the rhetoric of Marxist Socialists.... it makes them feel good... they believe they are supporting the little guy... they believe this is the solution to all our problems. And once they have turned over all their freedom to the State, they will discover what a huge blunder they made and it will be too late. That's how virtually every totalitarian Communist regime began.

When I studied about these brutal and terrible Communist regimes, I remember thinking... why did these people allow this to happen? How could they have let their freedom go like that? But as I have grown older, I realize exactly how... propaganda. We're seeing it happen right before our very eyes.... Corporation and bankers are made into evil entities... class warfare is constantly drilled into our heads... we're inundated with arguments regarding "the rich" or "the top 1%" and the "greedy capitalists" ...versus "the workers" and the "middle class" and "the poor." As if no one ever leaves their class.... we're stuck in our classes like 17th century proles and serfs under a ruler or king. BUT WE'RE NOT! We live in a FREE society! We have FREE enterprise... We have a FREE market! We can be in ANY class we desire to be in... it's the American Dream!

We cannot get there through Marxist/Socialist Communist Utopia.... it fails every time.

What modern American Democrats are proposing Marxism?

 

[NYcarbineer]

Is this a serious thread?

You know no one is proposing communism here, right?

You know that South Korea employs "socialism", right?

You know that North Korea is run by an insane dictator who has isolated his country from the rest of the world, right?

Of course you don't. That's why you created this retarded thread.

Yes and government is in control of every aspect of society including the total take over of private business and property. Yes liberal desire this and yes Bernie sanders has praised Cuba and Venezuela.

South Korea is a capitalistic free market based economy.

South Korea has universal healthcare via mandatory insurance. Should we emulate that?

 

[NYcarbineer]

Prior to WW II Korea was a poor 3rd world country. During WWII Korea was occupied and devastated by Japan. After WW II the Soviets took the north and established a communist/socialist society and the US took the south and established a capitalist society. The Korean War strengthen the total separation of these two new societies.

Both countries have all similar traits: same people (Koreans), similar coastal land, similar natural resources, similar land mass etc. Yet the only difference is the north adopted communism/socialism and the south adopted capitalism.

The results are undeniable and telling. South Korea became a rich, 1st world, industrialized nation and a country to envy. North Korea is a 3rd world shit hole, that has a horrible economy, no exports, produces nothing and there are annual food storage in which a good percentage of the population starve.

But let socialist like Bernie and his lazy followers tell you the joy of socialism.

Who in the US is arguing for North Korean style socialism?

I guess we can interpret the stunned silence to mean 'No one'.

 

[Lakhota]

Prior to WW II Korea was a poor 3rd world country. During WWII Korea was occupied and devastated by Japan. After WW II the Soviets took the north and established a communist/socialist society and the US took the south and established a capitalist society. The Korean War strengthen the total separation of these two new societies.

Both countries have all similar traits: same people (Koreans), similar coastal land, similar natural resources, similar land mass etc. Yet the only difference is the north adopted communism/socialism and the south adopted capitalism.

The results are undeniable and telling. South Korea became a rich, 1st world, industrialized nation and a country to envy. North Korea is a 3rd world shit hole, that has a horrible economy, no exports, produces nothing and there are annual food storage in which a good percentage of the population starve.

But let socialist like Bernie and his lazy followers tell you the joy of socialism.

Do you know the difference between socialism and a totalitarian family dictatorship?

Yes chief socialism always leads to the central government growth to the point of totalitarianism.

No, dumbass, it doesn't.

75 Ways Socialism Has Improved America

 

[Boss]

What modern American Democrats are proposing Marxism?

None are... I explained why... they CAN'T!

Communism has such a deplorable history, they can't possibly pedal Marxism now. The ONLY hope is to repackage Marxism as something else.... enter: Democratic Socialism.

Redistribution of wealth, Federal control of business and commerce, either through outright ownership or taxes and regulation, the elimination of private property rights, the incremental turning over of private free enterprise to government agents... is all Marxist Socialism which is the stated means of achieving Communist Utopia.

 

[NYcarbineer]

What modern American Democrats are proposing Marxism?

None are... I explained why... they CAN'T!

Communism has such a deplorable history, they can't possibly pedal Marxism now. The ONLY hope is to repackage Marxism as something else.... enter: Democratic Socialism.

Redistribution of wealth, Federal control of business and commerce, either through outright ownership or taxes and regulation, the elimination of private property rights, the incremental turning over of private free enterprise to government agents... is all Marxist Socialism which is the stated means of achieving Communist Utopia.

IOW, Democrats promote a version of mixed socialism and capitalism that can in fact work.

 

[bripat9643]

Prior to WW II Korea was a poor 3rd world country. During WWII Korea was occupied and devastated by Japan. After WW II the Soviets took the north and established a communist/socialist society and the US took the south and established a capitalist society. The Korean War strengthen the total separation of these two new societies.

Both countries have all similar traits: same people (Koreans), similar coastal land, similar natural resources, similar land mass etc. Yet the only difference is the north adopted communism/socialism and the south adopted capitalism.

The results are undeniable and telling. South Korea became a rich, 1st world, industrialized nation and a country to envy. North Korea is a 3rd world shit hole, that has a horrible economy, no exports, produces nothing and there are annual food storage in which a good percentage of the population starve.

But let socialist like Bernie and his lazy followers tell you the joy of socialism.

This fails as a preach to the choir fallacy, no one advocates for "socialism," including Sanders.

Horseshit. Bernie claims to be a socialist. In fact, Bernie is no different than any Democrat. They're all a bunch of American hating commies.

 

[bripat9643]

What modern American Democrats are proposing Marxism?

None are... I explained why... they CAN'T!

Communism has such a deplorable history, they can't possibly pedal Marxism now. The ONLY hope is to repackage Marxism as something else.... enter: Democratic Socialism.

Redistribution of wealth, Federal control of business and commerce, either through outright ownership or taxes and regulation, the elimination of private property rights, the incremental turning over of private free enterprise to government agents... is all Marxist Socialism which is the stated means of achieving Communist Utopia.

Correction: They can't peddle it openly. However, they do peddle under other names, like "sustainable communities," "environmentalism," and a hundred other leftwing euphemisms.