jasonnfree
Gold Member
- May 23, 2012
- 10,512
- 2,333
- 280
A) Don't ever use Singapore as an example of anything, they're not a nation. They're a city state, I am half South Asian, nothing pisses me off more than some dumbass from Singapore saying stupid shit like "racism" doesn't exist here. Or in any way implying we the United fucking States of America are analogous to the little pissant place.
B) There is a reason you didn't put any pictures of Canadian or German hospitals up, they look just like ours. And again get the same results unless you're going to a premier hospital in America. And most western nations have their own premier hospitals...In a single payer system
The only reason it makes more sense to have our system in America is because we are a much more rural nation than these other societies. It makes serving rural areas very difficult in a non profit system.
Otehr than that, there are no downsides for the vast majority of citizens. Again unless you need something cutting edge, but we will still have the best universities and hospitals in the world in a single payer system. All our competitors are in single payer systems
edit - i don't' see how you could acknowledge my first post as true then try to contradict me like this...Makes no sense
If you accept they're getting the same results for half the price, that should say it all shouldn't it? Pricing is fixed by single payer, it's the only way
A: I'll use Singapore as an example, when it is true and fits the discussion we're having, and it is, and does. What pisses you off doesn't matter to the rest of us. If you want to debate the facts I've presented by all means. But just yelling that you don't like it.... I don't care. Did I give you the impression I cared? Debate the topic, or move on. Either works for me. I'll talk to someone else. I'm already ignoring that other guy.
B: There is a reason I didn't put German and Canadian hospitals up there.... The German health care system is a lot like our own, in that that have private and public hospitals, and nearly everyone has private insurance, and it's expensive. While the quality of German health care isn't at our level, it is very good. But it is also very expensive. So... it's not all that different from ours, it isn't an example of anything but, pretty much what we already have.
Canadian hospital do look like ours, that's true. They have a different problem. When you socialize health care, you have to fit the health care to the amount of money the government has. In order to do this, you can reduce quality of the care, such as how Singapore has done, by stacking 10 people to a room, and giving them a fan.
There's another way. The other way is simply by rationing the care. You put people on a waiting list, and have them sit for 3 years to get surgery.
In that situation the hospital is going to look exactly like ours, with the same quality of care. It's just that people wait for years to get it.
I just bought a book by a Veterinarian in Canada, called "Lucky Dog".
Lucky Dog: How Being a Veterinarian Saved My Life: Sarah Boston: 9781770893511: Amazon.com: Books
The basic story is, a Dog in Canada has much much better care than humans do. Because a life threatening cancer, can take literally months to diagnose, and then months to get treatment, all during which a dog can get diagnosed, and treated in a few days.
In this case, the Veterinarian actually ended up diagnosing herself, using medical equipment for a horse. Of course the average people in the country without such access... simply wait... and die.
But yes, the hospitals look the same.
Your first post largely talked about the cost of care. I agree the cost of care is high, and I listed my reasons for it. What I contradict is the idea that moving more towards the very causes of the problems, is a solution. Socialized health care is the reason our health care is so expensive. So the solution given by many, is that we should socialize it more. As if that is going to reduce cost. It isn't.
We already have health care systems refusing to accept Medicare and Medicaid, because it doesn't pay enough. The only reasons Hospitals still accept Medicare and Medicaid, is because private patients are over charged to make up that loss. Well what do you think is going to happen if everyone is on Medicare and Medicaid? The hospitals will either go broke and close (which has already happened in California, or they will refuse to accept Medicare and Medicaid (and we already have a few hospitals that have done this), or Medicare and Medicaid will drastically have to increase their payouts.... which means you will not be reducing costs. Taxes in this country will have to increase by no less than 15% on nearly everyone, if not more.
Costs will go up, not down if you socialize the system even more.
If these corporations are so great, then why do they need to lobby congress so much? You'd think they could make it on their own merit. Fact is, corporate america gets lots of help from uncle sam in subsidies and technology that was funded by the taxpayers.