Solar power costs 14 times more than a natural gas power plant

[bripat9643]

Ethanol is a leftwing idea.

It's a farm subsidy idea, and you're paying for it. Don't see you doing anything about it.

It's a leftwing idea to force us to use ethanol. What do you expect me to do about it. In case you haven't noticed, I'm not a member of Congress.

Poor baby.Everything is a left wing conspiracy to hurt you. How long have you had this Jesus complex?

All left wingers are trying to destroy America. That simply isn't deniable.

Sure, and they are all trying to get you first.

There are definitely some who are trying to get me. Some of them are right here in this forum.

 

[ShaklesOfBigGov]

Anyone who thinks solar power will ever compete economically with fossil fuels should read this article. Those who know better should also read it.

A Solar Power Plant vs. A Natural Gas Power Plant: Capital Cost – Apples to Apples

Conclusion

This back-of-the-envelope analysis suggests that a solar (PV) power plant that could deliver that same results as a gas-fired power plant would cost about 14 times the gas-fired option to build. It is worth noting that the solar option cost excludes any subsidies, investment tax credits, etc, that could narrow the range, but it is obvious from this little exercise that until solar technology improves dramatically, there is little chance that it will replace natural gas as the “go-to” option for new power plants.​

You are kidding, right? Solar is free, get solar panels (costs big bucks), stick em' on the roof, powers up you house. And the local power company gives you a credit for the surplus. Must be why low income housing units are covered with solar panels now. Because they look pretty and aren't cost effective.

Solar is not free. The government offers an incentive and the solar company does all the work with no "initial" out of pocket costs, however you are still under a binding contract with the solar company to pay for the remaining cost and labor involved. That is, of course, unless you decide to buy the materials and solar panels outright to avoid any long term binding commitments.


This coming from one such solar contractor:

Legitimate solar contracts should include a clear payment schedule, with a total amount and due dates listed for each month and year for the entire term of the lease or PPA agreement. The contract should also list other fees or charges, and any payments due at the time of signing, installation, and inspection phases of the project.

In a PPA or a lease arrangement, the solar system is typically owned by the solar company, often in a partnership with a financing partner. Therefore, it is the solar company's responsibility to take care of the solar system.

Residential - Top 5 Contract Tips | SolarCity

 

[Rustic]

Anyone who thinks solar power will ever compete economically with fossil fuels should read this article. Those who know better should also read it.

A Solar Power Plant vs. A Natural Gas Power Plant: Capital Cost – Apples to Apples

Conclusion

This back-of-the-envelope analysis suggests that a solar (PV) power plant that could deliver that same results as a gas-fired power plant would cost about 14 times the gas-fired option to build. It is worth noting that the solar option cost excludes any subsidies, investment tax credits, etc, that could narrow the range, but it is obvious from this little exercise that until solar technology improves dramatically, there is little chance that it will replace natural gas as the “go-to” option for new power plants.​

Cost is of no concern, when we are talking saving the planet.

 

[gipper]

With today's technology, yeah.

And of course nothing's ever, ever going to improve.

Must take you an awfully long time to scratch out your posts in longhand.

"Tout ca, c'est du sport!" "L'avion, c'est zero!"

that was the French General Foch, in 1910, mocking the idea of using the airplane to advantage in the military.

How does solar produce power when the sun isn't shining? How does wind produce power when the wind isn't blowing? Those issues aren't subject to technical advance. They are insurmountable limits.

There are these amazing things called storage batteries. You should look into them.

How much do you think the solar panels and storage batteries would cost to provide a home with 100% power 24 hours a day?

I know you can buy a travel trailer with built-in solar and batteries if you're serious about going off the grid and not just whining.

True enough. I know a couple who full time in a luxury motor home, with a nice array of solar on the roof, large bank of lithium batteries, and a powerful inverter. Of course, they are millionaires and the high cost of this set up was worth it to them. They could afford it. Probably 90% of Americans can not.

Expense energy hurts the poor and middle class, but the wealthy do just fine.

 

[Arianrhod]

"Tout ca, c'est du sport!" "L'avion, c'est zero!"

that was the French General Foch, in 1910, mocking the idea of using the airplane to advantage in the military.

How does solar produce power when the sun isn't shining? How does wind produce power when the wind isn't blowing? Those issues aren't subject to technical advance. They are insurmountable limits.

There are these amazing things called storage batteries. You should look into them.

How much do you think the solar panels and storage batteries would cost to provide a home with 100% power 24 hours a day?

I know you can buy a travel trailer with built-in solar and batteries if you're serious about going off the grid and not just whining.

True enough. I know a couple who full time in a luxury motor home, with a nice array of solar on the roof, large bank of lithium batteries, and a powerful inverter. Of course, they are millionaires and the high cost of this set up was worth it to them. They could afford it. Probably 90% of Americans can not.

Expense energy hurts the poor and middle class, but the wealthy do just fine.

Historically, the same was true of automobiles. Don't forget to feed the horse before you put him in the barn for the night.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Now build it in the North.......how much bigger does it have to be to do the same thing.......yeah lets pave the planet in solar panels,,,,great idea

You know what the North has lots of? Wind. Amazing what you can do with that stuff.

You know what coastal areas have? Waves. There's this amazing thing called the ocean, and it produces not only onshore waves, but deep-water tidal power.

Then there's thermal. Ever been to a hot spring? Good stuff.

Only idiots think you can only employ one kind of alternative energy source in a region.

This forum is apparently replete with idiots. I wonder if all the hot air you people generate could be harvested somehow? Bet y'all generate almost as much methane as a city dump. Methane from garbage can be used as fuel.

And why is this in Politics? Is it because the idiot gasbags are ignorant, or because they need to make this a political issue? How long before Rustic posts that photo of his idol for the 4,700th time?

Only idiots think you can totally replace fossil fuels with solar or wind. Both require 100% backup with fossil fuel power because they can both go totally to zero.

With today's technology, yeah.

And of course nothing's ever, ever going to improve.

Must take you an awfully long time to scratch out your posts in longhand.

"Tout ca, c'est du sport!" "L'avion, c'est zero!"

that was the French General Foch, in 1910, mocking the idea of using the airplane to advantage in the military.

So, you're equating solar panels with airplanes?

 

[bripat9643]

How does solar produce power when the sun isn't shining? How does wind produce power when the wind isn't blowing? Those issues aren't subject to technical advance. They are insurmountable limits.

There are these amazing things called storage batteries. You should look into them.

How much do you think the solar panels and storage batteries would cost to provide a home with 100% power 24 hours a day?

I know you can buy a travel trailer with built-in solar and batteries if you're serious about going off the grid and not just whining.

True enough. I know a couple who full time in a luxury motor home, with a nice array of solar on the roof, large bank of lithium batteries, and a powerful inverter. Of course, they are millionaires and the high cost of this set up was worth it to them. They could afford it. Probably 90% of Americans can not.

Expense energy hurts the poor and middle class, but the wealthy do just fine.

Historically, the same was true of automobiles. Don't forget to feed the horse before you put him in the barn for the night.

Mass production made automobiles affordable. Solar panels are already mass produced, so what do you imagine is going to make them affordable.?

 

[Manonthestreet]

"Tout ca, c'est du sport!" "L'avion, c'est zero!"

that was the French General Foch, in 1910, mocking the idea of using the airplane to advantage in the military.

How does solar produce power when the sun isn't shining? How does wind produce power when the wind isn't blowing? Those issues aren't subject to technical advance. They are insurmountable limits.

There are these amazing things called storage batteries. You should look into them.

How much do you think the solar panels and storage batteries would cost to provide a home with 100% power 24 hours a day?

I know you can buy a travel trailer with built-in solar and batteries if you're serious about going off the grid and not just whining.

True enough. I know a couple who full time in a luxury motor home, with a nice array of solar on the roof, large bank of lithium batteries, and a powerful inverter. Of course, they are millionaires and the high cost of this set up was worth it to them. They could afford it. Probably 90% of Americans can not.

Expense energy hurts the poor and middle class, but the wealthy do just fine.

Actually we probably paid for some of it in tax credits for the rich for buying stuff avg joe cant afford to feel good about ourselves saving the planet

 

[Arianrhod]

There are these amazing things called storage batteries. You should look into them.

How much do you think the solar panels and storage batteries would cost to provide a home with 100% power 24 hours a day?

I know you can buy a travel trailer with built-in solar and batteries if you're serious about going off the grid and not just whining.

True enough. I know a couple who full time in a luxury motor home, with a nice array of solar on the roof, large bank of lithium batteries, and a powerful inverter. Of course, they are millionaires and the high cost of this set up was worth it to them. They could afford it. Probably 90% of Americans can not.

Expense energy hurts the poor and middle class, but the wealthy do just fine.

Historically, the same was true of automobiles. Don't forget to feed the horse before you put him in the barn for the night.

Mass production made automobiles affordable. Solar panels are already mass produced, so what do you imagine is going to make them affordable.?

Are you ignoring how the technology has improved since they became "cool" in the 1970s? Or were you too busy looking for proof that Topaz was "going bankrupt"?

 

[bripat9643]

How much do you think the solar panels and storage batteries would cost to provide a home with 100% power 24 hours a day?

I know you can buy a travel trailer with built-in solar and batteries if you're serious about going off the grid and not just whining.

True enough. I know a couple who full time in a luxury motor home, with a nice array of solar on the roof, large bank of lithium batteries, and a powerful inverter. Of course, they are millionaires and the high cost of this set up was worth it to them. They could afford it. Probably 90% of Americans can not.

Expense energy hurts the poor and middle class, but the wealthy do just fine.

Historically, the same was true of automobiles. Don't forget to feed the horse before you put him in the barn for the night.

Mass production made automobiles affordable. Solar panels are already mass produced, so what do you imagine is going to make them affordable.?

Are you ignoring how the technology has improved since they became "cool" in the 1970s?

If solar panels became 100% efficient, they would still cost far more than gas because you have to store energy to use at night. Storage costs 10 times more than the solar panels. Solar panels are never going to be more than 100% efficient.

 

[LoneLaugher]

This is a great head in the sand issue for nutbags.

 

[bripat9643]

This is a great head in the sand issue for nutbags.

You're confused about who has their head in the sand. One thing douche bags like you never want to talk about is the cost of your schemes. Whenever you do talk about it, you lie. If you insist on ramming solar down the throats of the public, you're going to impose huge energy costs on the poor. Supporting "green energy" is the same as shitting on poor people.

 

[Arianrhod]

I know you can buy a travel trailer with built-in solar and batteries if you're serious about going off the grid and not just whining.

True enough. I know a couple who full time in a luxury motor home, with a nice array of solar on the roof, large bank of lithium batteries, and a powerful inverter. Of course, they are millionaires and the high cost of this set up was worth it to them. They could afford it. Probably 90% of Americans can not.

Expense energy hurts the poor and middle class, but the wealthy do just fine.

Historically, the same was true of automobiles. Don't forget to feed the horse before you put him in the barn for the night.

Mass production made automobiles affordable. Solar panels are already mass produced, so what do you imagine is going to make them affordable.?

Are you ignoring how the technology has improved since they became "cool" in the 1970s?

If solar panels became 100% efficient, they would still cost far more than gas because you have to store energy to use at night. Storage costs 10 times more than the solar panels. Solar panels are never going to be more than 100% efficient.

Why is everything binary with you?

 

[bripat9643]

True enough. I know a couple who full time in a luxury motor home, with a nice array of solar on the roof, large bank of lithium batteries, and a powerful inverter. Of course, they are millionaires and the high cost of this set up was worth it to them. They could afford it. Probably 90% of Americans can not.

Expense energy hurts the poor and middle class, but the wealthy do just fine.

Historically, the same was true of automobiles. Don't forget to feed the horse before you put him in the barn for the night.

Mass production made automobiles affordable. Solar panels are already mass produced, so what do you imagine is going to make them affordable.?

Are you ignoring how the technology has improved since they became "cool" in the 1970s?

If solar panels became 100% efficient, they would still cost far more than gas because you have to store energy to use at night. Storage costs 10 times more than the solar panels. Solar panels are never going to be more than 100% efficient.

Why is everything binary with you?

So you think solar panels can be more than 100% efficient? Either solar is more expensive than gas, or it isn't. If you object to reality being "binary," you're going to have a hard life.

 

[Arianrhod]

Historically, the same was true of automobiles. Don't forget to feed the horse before you put him in the barn for the night.

Mass production made automobiles affordable. Solar panels are already mass produced, so what do you imagine is going to make them affordable.?

Are you ignoring how the technology has improved since they became "cool" in the 1970s?

If solar panels became 100% efficient, they would still cost far more than gas because you have to store energy to use at night. Storage costs 10 times more than the solar panels. Solar panels are never going to be more than 100% efficient.

Why is everything binary with you?

So you think solar panels can be more than 100% efficient? Either solar is more expensive than gas, or it isn't. If you object to reality being "binary," you're going to have a hard life.

So you've flip-flopped from "100% efficient" to "more than 100% efficient"? And you expect us to believe you're an engineer?

 

[gipper]

How does solar produce power when the sun isn't shining? How does wind produce power when the wind isn't blowing? Those issues aren't subject to technical advance. They are insurmountable limits.

There are these amazing things called storage batteries. You should look into them.

How much do you think the solar panels and storage batteries would cost to provide a home with 100% power 24 hours a day?

I know you can buy a travel trailer with built-in solar and batteries if you're serious about going off the grid and not just whining.

True enough. I know a couple who full time in a luxury motor home, with a nice array of solar on the roof, large bank of lithium batteries, and a powerful inverter. Of course, they are millionaires and the high cost of this set up was worth it to them. They could afford it. Probably 90% of Americans can not.

Expense energy hurts the poor and middle class, but the wealthy do just fine.

Actually we probably paid for some of it in tax credits for the rich for buying stuff avg joe cant afford to feel good about ourselves saving the planet

I have a friend in Fresno CA who has his roof covered in solar panels. During the summer he can effectively generate enough energy to power every thing in the house, including cooling the entire 3000 sq ft house. If the month is not too hot, he sells some of the energy back to the energy company. He loves it.

He got a huge tax credit to install solar.

 

[bripat9643]

Mass production made automobiles affordable. Solar panels are already mass produced, so what do you imagine is going to make them affordable.?

Are you ignoring how the technology has improved since they became "cool" in the 1970s?

If solar panels became 100% efficient, they would still cost far more than gas because you have to store energy to use at night. Storage costs 10 times more than the solar panels. Solar panels are never going to be more than 100% efficient.

Why is everything binary with you?

So you think solar panels can be more than 100% efficient? Either solar is more expensive than gas, or it isn't. If you object to reality being "binary," you're going to have a hard life.

So you've flip-flopped from "100% efficient" to "more than 100% efficient"? And you expect us to believe you're an engineer?

I'm sorry that you're too stupid to understand a basic English sentence.

 

[NYcarbineer]

And back in the old days, a digital calculator was the size of a suitcase and cost hundreds of dollars.

Once the efficiency reaches 100%, you can't make a solar panel any smaller for a given power output. You also can't reduce the cost of building storage like the kind envisaged in the article, and that's probably the cheapest form of storage there is. Generators are already at almost 100% efficiency.

there is more solar energy reachimg the surface of deserts in six hours than all of humanity uses in a year

You want to cover every square mile of desert with solar panels? How much do you think that would cost? It would do wonders for the environment, wouldn't it?

Is that really your conception of an ideal world?

What happens when you run out of poor neighborhoods to dump the nuclear waste on?

Can you name one such neighborhood where they have done that? Don't they build wind mills in poor neighborhoods? They sure don't build then next to Martha's Vineyard.

Have you been out in the sun too long?

That would explain alot, and be a lovely bit of irony as well.

 

[bripat9643]

Once the efficiency reaches 100%, you can't make a solar panel any smaller for a given power output. You also can't reduce the cost of building storage like the kind envisaged in the article, and that's probably the cheapest form of storage there is. Generators are already at almost 100% efficiency.

there is more solar energy reachimg the surface of deserts in six hours than all of humanity uses in a year

You want to cover every square mile of desert with solar panels? How much do you think that would cost? It would do wonders for the environment, wouldn't it?

Is that really your conception of an ideal world?

What happens when you run out of poor neighborhoods to dump the nuclear waste on?

Can you name one such neighborhood where they have done that? Don't they build wind mills in poor neighborhoods? They sure don't build then next to Martha's Vineyard.

Have you been out in the sun too long?

That would explain alot, and be a lovely bit of irony as well.

We already know you're a douche bag. No need to double down on it.

 

[rdean]

Anyone who thinks solar power will ever compete economically with fossil fuels should read this article. Those who know better should also read it.

A Solar Power Plant vs. A Natural Gas Power Plant: Capital Cost – Apples to Apples

Conclusion

This back-of-the-envelope analysis suggests that a solar (PV) power plant that could deliver that same results as a gas-fired power plant would cost about 14 times the gas-fired option to build. It is worth noting that the solar option cost excludes any subsidies, investment tax credits, etc, that could narrow the range, but it is obvious from this little exercise that until solar technology improves dramatically, there is little chance that it will replace natural gas as the “go-to” option for new power plants.​

More ignorance from the right. What if it's not either solar or fossil. There are all kinds of hybrids. Including plants that use solar during the day when the out put is highest and gas at night.

But that's the problem with right wingers. They are binary people. It's either good or bad. It works or it doesn't. It's on or it's off. Being binary is almost as limiting as determined ignorance.