Some of the reasons why Americans of all political backgrounds oppose funding and supporting Ukraine.

[sealybobo]

He knows Trump will, for sure.

I can't wait for the Republican primaries. This will be a topic. Can't wait to see what Trump and the RINO's have to say.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

There isn't going to be a WWIII. That's theater for the appeasers.



The USSR left Afghanistan with its tail between its legs. Just as we did.

So Putin leaving Ukraine with his tail between his legs is doable and likely so long as the West continues to support Ukraine.

Putin is hoping we wimp out just as we have in so many other conflicts for the past 50 years. He is trying to outwait us and let Ukraine down. The appeasers are playing right into that.

He never expected this kind of resistance from the West. He miscalculated just as Hitler miscalculated in Poland.

The Russian people will not tolerate the loss of Russian lives for no purpose.

At the very least, this destruction of the Russian military will ensure Putin never again takes aggressive action against one of our allies.

Honestly... if you could take the corruption out of all the fucking money we are giving them, I would have less of a problem.
As of December of last year, the $50 Billion we gave them... only $17 Bn was military assets and direct military support. $14 billion of that was "humanitarian support" - another word for corrupt officials to fill their pockets. Of the $100 bn we have shelled out, I would wager no more than $25 of that is direct military. Maybe - MAYBE - $10 billion actually helps the Ukraine people. The rest you bet your ass is going into the coffers of corrupt officials.

 

[g5000]

The Russian people are taking it just like we did when Bush lied us into Iraq. How many years later were we still there?

The Russians have lost far more people than we did in Iraq. In fact, in the first few months they lost more soldiers than during their entire Afghanistan conflict.

Russian men are fleeing Russia in droves to avoid being drafted. Russia is having to force convicts into the fight.

Russia has lost a tremendous amount of men and materiel.

Putin's regime is going to be destabilized if he keeps this up.

 

[g5000]

Honestly... if you could take the corruption out of all the fucking money we are giving them, I would have less of a problem.
As of December of last year, the $50 Billion we gave them... only $17 Bn was military assets and direct military support. $14 billion of that was "humanitarian support" - another word for corrupt officials to fill their pockets. Of the $100 bn we have shelled out, I would wager no more than $25 of that is direct military. Maybe - MAYBE - $10 billion actually helps the Ukraine people. The rest you bet your ass is going into the coffers of corrupt officials.

These are all wild imaginations. Manufactured bullshit fed to you by the shovelful by your propagandists who are rooting for Putin.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

Putin is hoping for a Republican victory in 2024

He knows Republicans will support him

A senile elderly man with OBVIOUS cognitive decline becoming President has a LOT to do with why Putin invaded.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

These are all wild imaginations. Manufactured bullshit fed to you by the shovelful by your propagandists who are rooting for Putin.

Wild imagination?? As of January 25th... over $40 billion of U.S. aid has gone to non military support in Ukraine.

How Much U.S. Aid Is Going to Ukraine?

Nine charts illustrate the extraordinary level of support the United States has provided Ukraine in its war against Russian invaders.

www.cfr.org

 

[Richard-H]

So it is only black and white with you?
Really?
And the whole situation is a helluva lot more complex than just 100% this or 100% that.
There are two problem makers here, not just one.
You take Sweden. Sweden has been a neutral country since 1834. I would expect that you know why that is important. I forget the percentages, but I think it is something like 80% of the population of Russia lives along the Swedish border. So Sweden being a buffer zone between one side from the other has been HUGELY beneficial for the whole world.
Ukraine should be neutral. Neutrality deals have prevented many wars over the course of humanity.
Russia was never going to accept a condition of Ukraine being a NATO nation.
And the value of Ukraine being a NATO nation, other than ego, is not worth the extreme high cost of making that happen. And that should be VERY obvious now.
But that is not what happened is it?
American interest in Ukraine kept escalating and escalating and enriching some high class folks. Gee, I sure know one of them don't you?
That was playing with fire. Actions have consequences.
Now... obviously Russia has some faults here too. They were also creating conflict. And both sides kept goading the other. What should have happened was making Ukraine a neutral nation. That it could cooperate and take any non military cooperation it wanted from either side as long as it wasn't military. And both sides agree to never take up arms against Ukraine, and Ukraine agree to never accept any military assistance from either side.

Uhmm...

Sweden has no border with Russia at all. Are you thinking of Finland?

 

[sealybobo]

These are all wild imaginations. Manufactured bullshit fed to you by the shovelful by your propagandists who are rooting for Putin.

We are starting to see and point out who's feeding these conspiracy theorists. Follow the links it's Fox News, Alex Jones, QAnon, Newsmax, many small right wing radio hosts now that Rush is gone there is no one big name but add them all up they have more listeners than Fox has viewers.

No question conservatives are being lied to. Sad thing is, they don't even care.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

Uhmm...

Sweden has no border with Russia at all. Are you thinking of Finland?

Son of a bitch... yes.

 

[g5000]

It is so bizarre to hear people talk about corruption in Ukraine while ignoring the exponentially worse corruption of Russia.

Most of the corruption in Ukraine is from the era of Russian puppetry in Ukraine.

You want to talk about corruption? Okay.

One of the reasons Russia is getting its ass kicked in Ukraine is because of corruption. Russian troops are unwrapping explosives and finding blocks of wood instead of the explosives.

Russian tanks are so useless and broken down, Russia has had to un-mothball their Soviet-era tanks and put them into action because they are cheaper to make servicable.

Russian artillery is a joke. Around half of their artillery misfires, goes astray, or lands with a thud.

Russian body armor has been found to be filled with cotton wadding instead of armor.


All of this is because Russian military commanders took bribes from arms manufacturers to accept these defective items. The manufacturers saved billions by producing unusable materials.

And now that corruption is biting Russia in the ass, bigly. Russian soldiers are dying by the thousands because of it.

How long are Russian soldiers going to tolerate wooden blocks and cotton wadding and defective arms that are getting them killed before they revolt?

 

[g5000]

 

[iamwhatiseem]

It is so bizarre to hear people talk about corruption in Ukraine while ignoring the exponentially worse corruption of Russia.

Most of the corruption in Ukraine is from the era of Russian puppetry in Ukraine.

You want to talk about corruption? Okay.

One of the reasons Russia is getting its ass kicked in Ukraine is because of corruption. Russian troops are unwrapping explosives and finding blocks of wood instead of the explosives.

Russian tanks are so useless and broken down, Russia has had to un-mothball their Soviet-era tanks and put them into action because they are cheaper to make servicable.

Russian artillery is a joke. Around half of their artillery misfires, goes astray, or lands with a thud.

Russian body armor has been found to be filled with cotton wadding instead of armor.


All of this is because Russian military commanders took bribes from arms manufacturers to accept these defective items. The manufacturers saved billions by producing unusable materials.

And now that corruption is biting Russia in the ass, bigly. Russian soldiers are dying by the thousands because of it.

How long are Russian soldiers going to tolerate wooden blocks and cotton wadding and defective arms that are getting them killed before they revolt?

Russia, like all communist countries are mired in deep, almost 100% corruption

 

[g5000]

'Feed Us!': Moscow Asks Beijing To Send Military Rations As Russian Soldiers Starve

New information has revealed that Russia asked China for MREs to feed their starving Russian troops in Ukraine, many of which had been seen to be looting Ukrainian establishments in search of food.

sofrep.com

A possible reason for Russia’s ill-preparation for the invasion was that it expected Ukraine to fold immediately upon the start of the invasion. They did not anticipate the need for additional food supplies as they believed it would end very quickly. However, this was not the case as Ukraine had stalemated the more powerful Russian army at their own game with smart fighting across all fronts.

The most likely cause of the expired rations being sent to their troops is theft. Corruption is rampant in the Russian army. Pay is low and the opportunities to steal are met with ready customers on the black market

 

[g5000]

Russiaâs Artillery Is Wearing Out And Blowing Up

Photos that appeared online in recent days depict two Russian guns with what Mark Hertling, a retired U.S. Army general who commanded forces in Europe, described as “banana-peeled” barrels.

www.forbes.com

 

[sealybobo]

Wild imagination?? As of January 25th... over $40 billion of U.S. aid has gone to non military support in Ukraine.

How Much U.S. Aid Is Going to Ukraine?

Nine charts illustrate the extraordinary level of support the United States has provided Ukraine in its war against Russian invaders.

www.cfr.org

When he says wild imagination I think he's referring to you saying "if you could take the corruption out of all the money we are giving them" What corruption? You republicans seem to know something about Ukraine the rest of us don't.

As of December of last year, the $50 Billion we gave them... only $17 Bn was military assets and direct military support. $14 billion of that was "humanitarian support" - another word for corrupt officials to fill their pockets. Of the $100 bn we have shelled out, I would wager no more than $25 of that is direct military. Maybe - MAYBE - $10 billion actually helps the Ukraine people. The rest you bet your ass is going into the coffers of corrupt officials.

Humanitarian support is corruption?

Dude, do you know how much of what we spent in Iraq was Humanitarian aide? Probably you didn't nickle and dime Bush like this. And most of that money went to Dick Chaney's company Haloburton, but not a peep from you Republicans.

I find it funny that 2000 pro iraq war Republicans who did such a good job defending that mistake are today saying we shouldn't help Ukraine.

Is Putin any better than Saddam? I think Putin is a way bigger threat than Saddam ever could be.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

When he says wild imagination I think he's referring to you saying "if you could take the corruption out of all the money we are giving them" What corruption? You republicans seem to know something about Ukraine the rest of us don't.

As of December of last year, the $50 Billion we gave them... only $17 Bn was military assets and direct military support. $14 billion of that was "humanitarian support" - another word for corrupt officials to fill their pockets. Of the $100 bn we have shelled out, I would wager no more than $25 of that is direct military. Maybe - MAYBE - $10 billion actually helps the Ukraine people. The rest you bet your ass is going into the coffers of corrupt officials.

Humanitarian support is corruption?

Dude, do you know how much of what we spent in Iraq was Humanitarian aide? Probably you didn't nickle and dime Bush like this. And most of that money went to Dick Chaney's company Haloburton, but not a peep from you Republicans.

I find it funny that 2000 pro iraq war Republicans who did such a good job defending that mistake are today saying we shouldn't help Ukraine.

Is Putin any better than Saddam? I think Putin is a way bigger threat than Saddam ever could be.

You are helping me make my point.
The corruption in Iraq is akin to the corruption in Ukraine.
And how much of the 100s of $billion we gave Iraq came back and bit us in the ass?
You think I have confidence in Ukraine never joining with Putin and becoming a puppet regime for him?? And all of this money and military hardware goes straight to Putin.
Only way to stop that is if America puts in it's own puppet government and strong military presence there. Only way. Anything else is a high risk of it all going to Russia.

 

[AntonToo]

Honestly... if you could take the corruption out of all the fucking money we are giving them, I would have less of a problem.
As of December of last year, the $50 Billion we gave them... only $17 Bn was military assets and direct military support. $14 billion of that was "humanitarian support" - another word for corrupt officials to fill their pockets. Of the $100 bn we have shelled out, I would wager no more than $25 of that is direct military. Maybe - MAYBE - $10 billion actually helps the Ukraine people. The rest you bet your ass is going into the coffers of corrupt officials.

Where do you get this bullshit from?

Whats your evidence that $17 billion went to "official's pockets"? Do you just make this up as you go?

 

[sealybobo]

Russiaâs Artillery Is Wearing Out And Blowing Up

Photos that appeared online in recent days depict two Russian guns with what Mark Hertling, a retired U.S. Army general who commanded forces in Europe, described as “banana-peeled” barrels.

www.forbes.com

I was trying to find an article about how Bush almost broke our military. Like a child with toys he used the military to lie us into iraq, for Chaney's company Haloburton. How many died? I couldn't find the article I was looking for but I found this. Remember this guy?

"This is a farewell kiss from the Iraqi people, you dog," yelled al-Zaidi in Arabic as he threw his first shoe towards Bush. "This is for the widows and orphans and all those killed in Iraq," he shouted as he threw his second shoe. Bush ducked twice to avoid being hit by the shoes.

 

[sealybobo]

You are helping me make my point.
The corruption in Iraq is akin to the corruption in Ukraine.
And how much of the 100s of $billion we gave Iraq came back and bit us in the ass?
You think I have confidence in Ukraine never joining with Putin and becoming a puppet regime for him?? And all of this money and military hardware goes straight to Putin.
Only way to stop that is if America puts in it's own puppet government and strong military presence there. Only way. Anything else is a high risk of it all going to Russia.

Hey, all we are doing is providing weapons and money to Ukraine. Russia did the same thing to us in Iraq. Don't be a pussy.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

Where do you get this bullshit from?

Whats your proof that 17 billion went to "officials pockets"?

Common sense.
How much of the money we gave Iraq do you think was used for something else?
And the other dozen nations we gave money to.
You have your head buried in wet sand if you don't think a significant portion of this money is not being diverted into the pockets of elites there.