Something I wish a U.S. president would say about Afghanistan (or some place similar).

[Yarddog]

20 years shows the hubris of the pentagon and deep state regarding "nation-building" a backward shithole muslim country.

then we need to just give up on trying to stop terrorist groups over seas. If we cant keep a couple thousand people there in a support role... to keep a country from crumbling, why do we even have a military? why do do we keep troops in S. Korea? Europe? bring them all home and cut the military budget. We don't need one then.
As it is now, we have a voluntary military.. no one is being drafted, people pretty much know if they choose to be an Army ranger or Seal they are signing up for something dangerous.
As I see it the people who live in Afghanistan who would like to improve their own society only needed more time for generational change. I guess we look down on Afghans as being Stupid muslims.... yet we were willing to remain in Japan and Germany and Korea for Decades to promote stability... funny.

 

[Desperado]

What is so significant about 20 years?

Absolutely nothing just noting the length of tine we wasted there. If the Afghanistan army could not get it together in that length of time they never would be cable of defending themselves

 

[Dayton3]

Absolutely nothing just noting the length of tine we wasted there. If the Afghanistan army could not get it together in that length of time they never would be cable of defending themselves

Again, what is the significance of 20 years?

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

"We can't win. No one wants us there. We don't want to be there. Our troops will never be popular there nor supported by the locals. It will always be dangerous and expensive.

But we can't walk away. Anymore than police can simply walk away from a domestic violence situation. Sometimes all you can do is do your best in an utterly thankless situation. But we can't walk away and ignore it anymore than you can walk away and ignore a small fire burning. Small fires almost inevitably become bigger fires and then holocausts.

Sometimes the best we can do is kill people that need to be killed and hope for the best.

Horse shit. We absolutely can walk away. It's not our country and we have no business being further involved in their affairs. We went there to kill bin Laden. He's dead.

 

[kyzr]

How? It took far more than 20 years for South Korea to become a free and prosperous nation after the North Korean invasion was beaten back.

SK was not a backward muslim country with a majority of religious fanatics opposing your presence.
SK was appreciative of the US beating back the communists, AFG has no such appreciation.
AFG is a shithole and will always be a shithole.

 

[Yarddog]

Again, what is the significance of 20 years?

Right. It means nothing. Its a political football for politicians to play with, because after we bring the few troops home from Afghanistan, we continue to place soldiers all over the world anyway and will be for at least the NEXT 20 years.

 

[kyzr]

then we need to just give up on trying to stop terrorist groups over seas. If we cant keep a couple thousand people there in a support role... to keep a country from crumbling, why do we even have a military? why do do we keep troops in S. Korea? Europe? bring them all home and cut the military budget. We don't need one then.
As it is now, we have a voluntary military.. no one is being drafted, people pretty much know if they choose to be an Army ranger or Seal they are signing up for something dangerous.
As I see it the people who live in Afghanistan who would like to improve their own society only needed more time for generational change. I guess we look down on Afghans as being Stupid muslims.... yet we were willing to remain in Japan and Germany and Korea for Decades to promote stability... funny.

Oh please. We stood up the AFG army and spent $85b arming them. They have yard sale signs all over for US rifles "Never Fired Dropped Once".
Trump had the right idea, extreme vetting. Keep them out of the US and we're safe.
I have an active duty grandson, and I do not want him anywhere near AFG.
We do stop terrorist groups overseas, you just don't hear about it. We stopped ISIS under Trump, thanks to the Kurds.
Your hubris is showing. You think that AFGs are like you. They are not. Maybe you or your kids can go to AFG and help civilize them?
Then again don't try, they would just behead you and your infidel family.

 

[Yarddog]

SK was not a backward muslim country with a majority of religious fanatics opposing your presence.
SK was appreciative of the US beating back the communists, AFG has no such appreciation.
AFG is a shithole and will always be a shithole.

Afghanistan had never before had the chance to experience the concept of a national identity I think. You are right to say they are backwards. They are divided up into so many factions, however... it was starting to happen with advances in education, especially among the women.
As the lives of women go.. civilized societies also seem to follow. You let the 14th century ingrates shove them back into a burqua and you will see all that progress dissapear. I think they probably needed another 20- 40 years before they had a sense of something to fight for. It has a lot to do with national identity vs tribal identity

 

[eddiew37]

JUST authorized 5000 troops to Afghanistan

 

[ekrem]

 

[Dayton3]

SK was not a backward muslim country with a majority of religious fanatics opposing your presence.
SK was appreciative of the US beating back the communists, AFG has no such appreciation.
AFG is a shithole and will always be a shithole.

Your entire "counterargument" basically comes down to "yeah but".

You obviously don't know that South Korea in 1953 was far, far more devastated than Afghanistan was in 2001.

 

[kyzr]

Afghanistan had never before had the chance to experience the concept of a national identity I think. You are right to say they are backwards. They are divided up into so many factions, however... it was starting to happen with advances in education, especially among the women.
As the lives of women go.. civilized societies also seem to follow. You let the 14th century ingrates shove them back into a burqua and you will see all that progress dissapear. I think they probably needed another 20- 40 years before they had a sense of something to fight for. It has a lot to do with national identity vs tribal identity

Your idealism just doesn't get reality. AFG needs to evolve on their own at their own pace.
Trying to expedite their civilizing will only result in more beheadings and more girls shot in the head.
Let them evolve without wasting any more US lives or US treasure.
You can say the same for Yemen, or Iran or many other backward muslim countries.
The US is NOT the world's cop nor the world's civilizing agent.
If AFG wants to stay backward who are you to make them change?

 

[Yarddog]

Oh please. We stood up the AFG army and spent $85b arming them. They have yard sale signs all over for US rifles "Never Fired Dropped Once".
Trump had the right idea, extreme vetting. Keep them out of the US and we're safe.
I have an active duty grandson, and I do not want him anywhere near AFG.
We do stop terrorist groups overseas, you just don't hear about it. We stopped ISIS under Trump, thanks to the Kurds.
Your hubris is showing. You think that AFGs are like you. They are not. Maybe you or your kids can go to AFG and help civilize them?
Then again don't try, they would just behead you and your infidel family.

Right? and now we are going to let the Taliban access that 85 billion in weaponry? they will be selling all that soon to the highest bidders.
If we wanted to withdraw, i bet the geniuses in the Pentagon could have still found a better way.
AND... no I'm not talking about going over there and civilizing anyone. they have people who live there who have the will to do that themselves but they are still too weak to stand up to that kind of barbarism. I think they needed just more time.
And again.... look how long we keep troops in S.K. and Europe. If ISIS and AL Quida set up camp again in Afghanistan.. then someday we are going to have to lose thousands of more soldiers fighting another large conflict.
Just because we dont have the patience now.

 

[Dayton3]

The US is NOT the world's cop nor the world's civilizing agent.

Why not? Somebodies got to be.

 

[esme]

..why can't we walk away?

"We can't win. No one wants us there. We don't want to be there. Our troops will never be popular there nor supported by the locals. It will always be dangerous and expensive.

But we can't walk away. Anymore than police can simply walk away from a domestic violence situation. Sometimes all you can do is do your best in an utterly thankless situation. But we can't walk away and ignore it anymore than you can walk away and ignore a small fire burning. Small fires almost inevitably become bigger fires and then holocausts.

Sometimes the best we can do is kill people that need to be killed and hope for the best.

We can walk away. We are not responsible for the entire world. The countries nearby Afghanistan are the ones who should be doing something, not us. We put in 20 years to no avail. It wasn't our responsibility then and it isn't now.

 

[Dayton3]

We can walk away. We are not responsible for the entire world. The countries nearby Afghanistan are the ones who should be doing something, not us. We put in 20 years to no avail. It wasn't our responsibility then and it isn't now.

1) What is the significance of 20 years? It took more than 20 years for South Korean to become Democratic and prosperous. About 35 years actually.

2) What if Afghanistan's neighbors won't do "something". ?

 

[esme]

1) What is the significance of 20 years? It took more than 20 years for South Korean to become Democratic and prosperous. About 35 years actually.

2) What if Afghanistan's neighbors won't do "something". ?

It is not our responsiblity to fix the entire world.

 

[harmonica]

Dayton3 yes, you didn't learn anything from Vietnam

.....hey!!! we could stay there 50 years--it would mean nothing--change nothing

 

[Rigby5]

then we need to just give up on trying to stop terrorist groups over seas. If we cant keep a couple thousand people there in a support role... to keep a country from crumbling, why do we even have a military? why do do we keep troops in S. Korea? Europe? bring them all home and cut the military budget. We don't need one then.
As it is now, we have a voluntary military.. no one is being drafted, people pretty much know if they choose to be an Army ranger or Seal they are signing up for something dangerous.
As I see it the people who live in Afghanistan who would like to improve their own society only needed more time for generational change. I guess we look down on Afghans as being Stupid muslims.... yet we were willing to remain in Japan and Germany and Korea for Decades to promote stability... funny.

We can't even stop terrorist groups inside the US, so why would anyone think we could stop them over seas?
The Taliban had NOTHING at all to do with any terrorism, and were very anti terrorist.

 

[kyzr]

Your entire "counterargument" basically comes down to "yeah but".

You obviously don't know that South Korea in 1953 was far, far more devastated than Afghanistan was in 2001.

Your entire "counterargument" basically comes down to "yeah but".

You obviously don't know that South Korea in 1953 was far, far more devastated than Afghanistan was in 2001.

"yeah but" was not my argument. There was no "yeah" in my argument.
My argument was that SK appreciated the US beating back the communists after they almost captured the entire country.
My argument is that SK welcomed US support, AFG does not, AFG opposes US involvement, as seen by how fast the Taliban took control of the country.