Something that I think deserves it's own thread.

[Oddball]

Facts are just that. The GOP spends more than the left. That's a fact. Trump assaulted our 2A. That's also a fact. The right would've screamed their heads off if a democrat did that, or pushed something like the Platinum Plan through. But they almost completely ignored it when Trump did it. That's also a fact.
I'm not reading minds. I'm going strictly by Trumps actual record. Things that HE himself did.
If you can't recognize how left leaning Trump is, then I can only imagine your loyalty far exceeds your common sense.
I don't mean that as an insult. Just a factual observation.

Not arguing otherwise....None of that means that they can't be swayed....Just that you've not found the issue(s) to do so.

 

[Oddball]

Are you new to politics or something? Democrats hold Trump at gun point, "spend sign this bill or we will use the press to blame YOU for shutting down the government." If Trump refused, you would have been here telling us how terrible he was for not signing it.

Did you notice how when the GOP was in charge, they had to fight to get spending cuts? We are the opposite of your party. We are responsible adults. Youre all a bunch of childish fucking idiots who dont give a shit about the consequences of blowing out the budget.

Excuses are like assholes....Nobody with any sense would've blamed Trump for "shutting down the gubmint" (which has never really happened), had he shown the nerve to veto those travesties.

Had he put as much energy into slapping around fuckbag RINO republicans, as he did into the low hanging fruits in the press, he probably would've been re-elected despite all the cheating.

 

[Oddball]

What do you mean?

I mean that people are oriented toward attainment, rather than repulsion....Moving toward > moving away from, by no less than 3X

From my perspective, the most important thing to persuade to stop voting for bad candidates because the TV tells them there are only two options.

And here we are....You have nothing to offer that people would want to move toward..

 

[dblack]

I mean that people are oriented toward attainment, rather than repulsion....Moving toward > moving away from, by no less than 3X

Got it. Agreed.

And here we are....You have nothing to offer that people would want to move toward..

Again, not sure what you mean. I'm not "offering" anything. I'm pleading with people to stop voting for bad candidates our of fear. It's not working.

 

[Oddball]

Again, not sure what you mean. I'm not "offering" anything. I'm pleading with people to stop voting for bad candidates our of fear. It's not working.

So your giving them a "moving away" motivation, which -as you just agreed- is weaker than offering them something that they want.....And you're astonished that they don't listen?

 

[Flash]

There is only one party. The Party of Big Government. The Democrats are the bat shit crazy branch. The Republicans a little more sane. However, the distinction between the two is minimal.

 

[BluesLegend]

I've realized it for decades as well, and until you quit supporting them they're not going to get the message. The whole entire apparatus is a corrupt cesspool, and they have us arguing with each other instead of paying attention to them.

Well then I'll just vote for the Dems... NOT!

 

[dblack]

So your giving them a "moving away" motivation, which -as you just agreed- is weaker than offering them something that they want.....And you're astonished that they don't listen?

Can you be more clear? What is a "moving away" motivation?

I'm trying to get people to wake up and reject the lesser-of-two-evils scam. I'm saying vote for someone you want to lead us. Don't vote for someone you know isn't any good, in some ham-handed attempt to prevent someone you're afraid of from winning. And if you can't think of anyone you want to lead us, for fuck's sake don't vote. It's far better than voting for someone bad on purpose.

 

[Godboy]

Excuses are like assholes....Nobody with any sense would've blamed Trump for "shutting down the gubmint" (which has never really happened), had he shown the nerve to veto those travesties.

Had he put as much energy into slapping around fuckbag RINO republicans, as he did into the low hanging fruits in the press, he probably would've been re-elected despite all the cheating.

You guys literally just threatened to blame the GOP for shutting down the government on the last funding bill. Does any democrat on this website give a fuck about personally integrity and honesty?

 

[dblack]

You guys literally just threatened to blame the GOP for shutting down the government on the last funding bill. Does any democrat on this website give a fuck about personally integrity and honesty?

I think the point of the thread is that partisans, regardless of their "side", have very little integrity or honesty, or any other consistent values. They're just obsessed with "destroying" the other side.

 

[OldFlame]

You guys literally just threatened to blame the GOP for shutting down the government on the last funding bill. Does any democrat on this website give a fuck about personally integrity and honesty?

That would be a 'no'.

 

[Foxfyre]

Trumps record, with a GOP majority in the House and Senate didn't produce anything fiscally conservative. It was Katy bar the door on the fed.
I'll agree that the witch hunts were overbearing and uncalled for. And they still are.
And I'll agree that Trump made some good decisions when it came to deregulating something things. Like getting drilling permit application timelines down from 5 years to 2 years.
But all that spending during the first two years, and especially after the 2018 mid terms. It helped to create the 8% inflation increase we seen under Biden.

If Trump is re-elected, I doubt it's going to be any different. It'll be a lot like his first 4 years. Why would it be any different? Trump is still the same CINO he was. He still brings swamp creatures with him. He just endorsed McCarthy for speaker. He has Lindsey Graham heading up his SC campaign. He endorsed Romney's niece for RNC chairman.
He's already lying about things he know he can't accomplish. Like ending the deep state and building new cities that are going to be something from the 22nd century.

Is that better than Biden? Yeah, probably. But not enough to put so much stock in. Why not pick someone who's actually better, like DeSantis? DeSantis isn't as entertaining. But he seems to understand how government works and has a better track record of either picking the right people, or getting rid of the wrong ones in a short time.
We know he knows how to balance a budget. His idea of building a good economy isn't to just print more money.
Note: I do have reservations about his congressional voting record. I don't give him a pass on his support for things like the NDAA. But I do realize that people learn from their mistakes.

DeSantis is a good guy and I like him but he is a politician. And he is unproven in international relationships or working with a hostile legislature and he plays so cozy with old guard NWO Republicans that he makes Patriots very nervous. If he is the nominee I will vote for him, but I honestly believe Trump can get the big jobs done and solve problems better than DeSantis can. A Trump/DeSantis ticket would look really good to me though.

As for the spending, Trump's deficits to GDP look pretty darn good, especially compared to Obama's and Biden's. Obama's would look a lot worse if he had kept a Democrat majority in the House and Senate. Trump's would look really great if he had kept a GOP majority in the House and Senate.

 

[Dadoalex]

I can agree with most of that.
I just wished the right would actually make good on their campaign promised to stop the excessive spending, balance the budget and leave the Fed money alone. And stop using it like an unlimited credit card.
People legitimately complain about the trade deficit with China, without realizing why they can manufacture so much cheaper than the US. It's simply because a middle class wage over there is like $20,000(USD) per year. Here, it's a poverty wage. If our middle class wage was still $20,000, we wouldn't have a trade deficit.
If our middle class wage was still that, we wouldn't much of an immigration problem. The cartels wouldn't be so dominant in our drug problem. Fentanyl is made is China, sent to MX to me made into meth and other drugs, both at much lower wages. And sold on the US market at a HUGE profit. If our USD was still that of 1970, the profit margin of fentanyl wouldn't be near what it is today.
That's just a couple of examples of what our overly inflated USD has done to this country, by our own government.
They (the Gov) has done more to push jobs out of this country, bring illegals and drugs in and hurt the middle class more than any other issue. And the GOP, the left, Trump and 90% of the rest of them, just ignore that.
Maybe it's because they don't know how to reverse this. Maybe there is no way to reverse it. But they could start by leaving the Federal Reserve alone. Stopping the money printing machines would stop inflation in it's tracks.

When inflation strikes, it causes 80% of the country at least some level of hardship. Buying goes down, crime goes up, jails & prisons get fuller, businesses suffer and it spreads across the country faster than covid. There's almost no aspect of our lives that inflation doesn't touch. Inflation is nothing more than too much money in the economy. And like you said, when Reagan came into office, it started a trend that hasn't stopped yet.

Fentanyl is a problem we created for ourselves.
First we created millions of opioid addicts then we made it hard to get the pills legally. Then we made heroin hard to get so they turned to fentanyl.

Like pot and prostitution, when you create a crim, you create criminals and when you do that, organized crime is next. People are not going to stop using drugs or buying nooky. We can wring our hands and try to put them in prison or we can deal with it rationally. Thus far we've chosen the former and its predictable outcomes.

 

[Dadoalex]

You conveniently forget how pissed off Trump was at his first budget he signed. It was either give democrats every cent they wanted or destroy Trumps presidency in the first month due to lack of funds.

I don't argue that repubs are no longer fiscally conservative...but you picked a BS example!

If you'll check Trump's first budget was passed by a Republican House and Senate.

OUCHEEE!

 

[Dadoalex]

You do pick BS examples because that is an obfuscation!

You know damn well the repubs couldn't get ANYTHING thru the senate because they needed 60 votes to pass ANYTHING.

While the repubs had the majority (over 50) they did not have 60 votes.

Another convenient laps of memory?

Wrong.
Not for budget work.

 

[Dadoalex]

...
How did the left stop caring about the American working man? Why did the right stop caring about the debt ceiling and the value of the USD. And 1,000 other things those two have slipped or flipped on?

It seems you are a victim of GOP propaganda.

The 'left' is pro
Living wage
Union
Universal Health Care
Subsidized child care
Free school lunches
Maternity/paternity leave

All things that benefit working people and all things the GOP opposes.

Perhaps you would clarify why you think the 'left' has stopped "caring about the working man?"

 

[dblack]

It seems you are a victim of GOP propaganda.

The 'left' is pro
Living wage
Union
Universal Health Care
Subsidized child care
Free school lunches
Maternity/paternity leave

All things that benefit working people and all things the GOP opposes.

Perhaps you would clarify why you think the 'left' has stopped "caring about the working man?"

They "care" about keeping the "working man" dependent. On shoveling him enough promises of "free-shit" to get his vote.

As long as the "working man" acquiesces to their we-know-betterism.

 

[Dadoalex]

Thank you for elaborating on this and bringing this thread back to the very reason I posted it. The issues are only the examples. But the issues became the point, somehow.

I remember when the ACLU was adamant about protecting free speech. But they became an arm of the left, when the left flipped flopped on that issue.
I guess I'm old enough to remember a lot of the flip flops the party's have made in the last 4 decades.
I just can't figure how so many people let their party flip. I suppose it's exactly like you said. That they don't really care about the issues themselves. If they did, they'd hold their party accountable.

Which is how we end up with two party's that are useless, but still have control.

The ACLU has never been "an arm" of the left.
The ACLU is an arm of the Constitution.

the ACLU fought and won to have NAZI'S march in a Jewish Skookie, IL.
The ACLU doesn't see right or left, only the law.

The fact we find the ACLU and the 'left' on the same side of many arguments is because the left generally stands on the side of the law while the 'right' considers the law malleable based on their current views.

 

[Dadoalex]

There's no swaying anyone now a days, because no on either side listens.
Try to educate democrats on how illegals are reducing the value of labor for every industry and trade they invade, making it harder for Americans to get jobs in those fields, and you're deemed a racist. Or some other retarded word.
The die hard Republicans do the same thing.

Don't blame people who want to work for accepting jobs.

Every employer has access to tools to prevent or t least minimize hiring of illegals. When those employers choose to go outside the law how is it the illegal causes the problem?

But talk to the GOP about criminalizing the hiring of illegals?
Bring the threat of punishment to the actual cause of the problem?
No way. We're not putting good law abiding Americans in jail because of "THEM!"

We have hundreds of thousands of willing workers sitting on their butts because we're refusing to issue them work permits, an option Democrats support. Meanwhile the GOP is complaining about supporting immigrants we won't allow to work.

Allowing these people to work would reduce government costs for their care, help with labor shortages, increase economic output and more.

When we set aside the emotions and look at the problem the solutions present themselves.

 

[Dadoalex]

They "care" about keeping the "working man" dependent. On shoveling him enough promises of "free-shit" to get his vote.

As long as the "working man" acquiesces to their we-know-betterism.

Your inability to respond cogently to the actual content of the post shows why the GOP is not "conservative" but "reactionary" and that the only thing driving your politics, like all reactionaries, is anger and hate.