Something that I think deserves it's own thread.

[YoursTruly]

Fact.

And the real proof that Trump has turned so many brains on the right to pure mush.

You're point about voters not really caring about the issues is so accurate.

Someone on this forum stated something that's stuck in my brain since I read it, (maybe it was you)

"The concept of Trump is much better than Trump himself."

Someone on another forum stated "DeSantis isn't going to entertain people like Trump does."
Another spot on point.

The power of a salesman can be phenominal.

 

[YoursTruly]

Don't blame people who want to work for accepting jobs.

Every employer has access to tools to prevent or t least minimize hiring of illegals. When those employers choose to go outside the law how is it the illegal causes the problem?

But talk to the GOP about criminalizing the hiring of illegals?
Bring the threat of punishment to the actual cause of the problem?
No way. We're not putting good law abiding Americans in jail because of "THEM!"

We have hundreds of thousands of willing workers sitting on their butts because we're refusing to issue them work permits, an option Democrats support. Meanwhile the GOP is complaining about supporting immigrants we won't allow to work.

Allowing these people to work would reduce government costs for their care, help with labor shortages, increase economic output and more.

When we set aside the emotions and look at the problem the solutions present themselves.

If the GOP were fiscally conservatives, immigration wouldn't be much of a problem. For the simple fact that the USD would be worth a lot more. So a middle class wage would be a lot lower than what it is.
As I state, $10hr back in 1980, was a middle class wage. A hard labor job was about $5 or $6 per hour. If the value of the USD was still up in that range, do anyone think that illegals would be pouring into this country to make that much? Especially when the USD and the Peso were a lot closer in value.
Of course they wouldn't. With the exception of those were actually seeking asylum from the drug lords. But then again, if the value of our dollar was closer to the Peso, the cartels wouldn't be bringing so much fentanyl in because there wouldn't be much profit in it. $100 worth of heroin cost them about $10 to make. If the value of the USD was that of 1980, that $100 bag of dope might bring $20. It would still cost them $10 to make, because the chinese labor and chemicals wouldn't change, nor would the labor and delivery cost of the Mexicans change, because their currency is still as high as ours used to be.

You see what I mean? The only currency value change in that whole scenario would be ours.

 

[TheGreatSatan]

This OP is designed solely to divide Republicans.

Americans are awakening to the nwo propaganda

 

[Dragonlady]

This was posted on another thread. But it's so deep, and spot on, I think it would be worth wild to discuss this topic on it's own (since it wasn't really on topic of the OP in the other thread)

The political divide in this country, especially on forums like this stems from a lot of issues. Some are legit disagreements. And some are merely political loyalty. "Sticking it to the other side" seems to be the going thing. Revenge politics, as they say. But on a social level.



The proof in this statement can be seen in the many MANY flip flops the party's have taken in the last several decades. Used to be, the GOP was the party of fiscal conservatism. They still campaign on being fiscal conservatives. But the fact is, the right has spent more money and increased the debt ceiling more times since at least 1980, than the democrats have.
And as far as the democrats go, they used to be the party of border security. They're the ones who come up with the idea of fencing off the border and putting large amounts of border patrols on it. This was back when they seem to care about the working class Americans and wanted to protect their jobs.

Those are just two examples. But FA_Q2 nailed in his statement.

What republican is going to stand up against Trumps spending problem, in favor of keeping our economy from collapsing from inflation created by all the money he's going to borrow when he's re elected? What democrat is going to stand up against Biden's lax border problem, in favor of the American working man? Are these issue important enough for anyone to strongly oppose their party and it's leaders and decide for yourself, instead of being told what and who to support?

The example of "border security" is a bad one. Illegal border crossings decline under Democrats, and spike under Republicans. That's because Democrats prosecute employers, and Republicans don't.

As soon as Republicans stop prosecuting employers, the "now hiring" message goes out to the smugglers, and the border crossing spike again. Republicans have been using immigration as a "wedge issue" since Clinton was in office, and got tough on employers.

Obama had more than 400 enforcement orders issued to illegal employers in his first 4 years in office, and high rates of deportation. When Trump took office, illegal border crossings were at their lowest levels in 50 years. Trump stopped all prosecutions and two years later declared a National Emergency at the Southern Border.

The USA has always had "open borders". Tourism is big business. You have student visas, and welcome students, and medical patients, and business people from all over the world. Closing your borders is ending all of that, and not letting Americans out either.

 

[FA_Q2]

I'll be so glad when the LP finally gets rid of those pro drug, pro tranny people and bring some sanity back to that party. The Mises people took over a couple of years ago, and was supposed to bring the focus back economics, monetary policy and things that go a lot of peoples attention.
But I haven't seen any real strides made yet.
The R & D's have built a mountain for them to climb, so I don't see them being viable anytime soon. That guy who stripped on the stage of the LP's convention, was my final straw with them.

AFAIK, the Mises Caucus was mostly an-cap. That just will not fly as a viable party. I have not looked to deeply into the Mises Caucus though.

 

[FA_Q2]

I don't see anyone on the left who's is right of center. But I do see a LOT of those on the right who are left of center. Like 80% of them, including Trump.

It makes me wonder if anyone actually understands what stances on the issues should be, if you're right of center.
Banning bump stocks, IMO, is something only an anti 2A liberal would do. Giving 1/2 a trillion dollars to black communities, just because they're black. That's socialism. Which is way left of center. Trump did both of those, but still has a lot of support on the right.
And what's even more puzzling, is that with all the caving Trump did with Pelosi, why TF aren't the left trying to recruit Trump. If he had a democrat badge, they'd be wanting to make him our chancellor.

The whole left of center and right of center is just an extension used by the same people parroting the problem in the OP. Everyone that is hard right demands the republicans are liberal and everyone on the hard left declares the democrats as being right of center. People that actually are center rarely use the terms though they do sometimes.

For the most part I think the term is mostly used by hardliners to pretend that they are being reasonable when they are not.

 

[FA_Q2]

You're point about voters not really caring about the issues is so accurate.

Someone on this forum stated something that's stuck in my brain since I read it, (maybe it was you)

"The concept of Trump is much better than Trump himself."

Someone on another forum stated "DeSantis isn't going to entertain people like Trump does."
Another spot on point.

The power of a salesman can be phenominal.

LOL.
"The concept of Trump is much better than Trump himself" is spot on but I cannot take credit for it.

I do not like DeSantis to be honest. He seems even more interested in increasing governmental control than Trump. Most of the time I agree with his actions I find that he is not correct but rather that he was a broken clock - only correct because the circumstances lined up for him. His reasons for his actions are authoritarian even when he makes the right call.

 

[YoursTruly]

LOL.
"The concept of Trump is much better than Trump himself" is spot on but I cannot take credit for it.

I do not like DeSantis to be honest. He seems even more interested in increasing governmental control than Trump. Most of the time I agree with his actions I find that he is not correct but rather that he was a broken clock - only correct because the circumstances lined up for him. His reasons for his actions are authoritarian even when he makes the right call.

I think I know a couple of those instances you're talking about. And I see your point. But due to the circumstances, I'd have to agree with him. (Disney and the pro tranny & alpha bet people in those K thru 3rd grade classes.)

But then again, I'm all for cops beating the living crap out of certain people in our society, that they catch red handed. (Child molesters, thieves and just about anyone who makes victims out of the vulnerable) But ONLY if they're caught red handed.

DeSantis just fired a lax prosecutor last week. She was a real POS for letting so many violent thugs back out on the street.

 

[YoursTruly]

The whole left of center and right of center is just an extension used by the same people parroting the problem in the OP. Everyone that is hard right demands the republicans are liberal and everyone on the hard left declares the democrats as being right of center. People that actually are center rarely use the terms though they do sometimes.

For the most part I think the term is mostly used by hardliners to pretend that they are being reasonable when they are not.

You might find this interesting. I think it's a lot better than the left/right paradigm.
(turn your volume down)


People are so competitive, I think the L vs R thing is used to appeal to our competitive nature. Ever notice how the MSM makes political races seem more like a sports event? Words like "race, neck & neck in the polls, etc etc etc.
It's just simplified brain washing material.

 

[FA_Q2]

I think I know a couple of those instances you're talking about. And I see your point. But due to the circumstances, I'd have to agree with him. (Disney and the pro tranny & alpha bet people in those K thru 3rd grade classes.)

That is the point though, I AGREE with the fact that they should not get special treatment HOWEVER, do you actually agree with DeSantis targeting a specific company and trying to punish them for speech?

Would you feel the same when a left wing politician targets gun companies with legal action? How about if Biden shuts down Truth Social? Where does this core political stance lead because from where I sit it just looks like a double standard where you sacrifice core values in the pursuit of political power. That does NOT lead to better outcomes.

Bush did this with the PA and look where that led.

This is exactly the same thing as sacrificing a little freedom for a little security:
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Benjamin Franklin

But then again, I'm all for cops beating the living crap out of certain people in our society, that they catch red handed. (Child molesters, thieves and just about anyone who makes victims out of the vulnerable) But ONLY if they're caught red handed.

Absolutely not.

Cops lie. That is just a fact. Give them that power and they will abuse it. Cops are not there to judge, they are there to enforce public peace and catch the criminals. They should be authorized to use necessary force and that is it.

Why do you think the most powerful governmental power exercised over the people, police, is somehow immune from the rampant corruption of power that I think you recognize is rife through the rest of the government? I do not trust the government to run a shrimp stall, there is no way in hell I would trust them to decide if I deserve a brutal beating. The judicial system is directly set up to give me the ability to answer charges against me and is generally, effective. We already have the tools to deal with these people.

I have been robbed at gunpoint exactly one time in my life and it was not by a random guy in the street. It was by a cop. They are necessary but they do not need more power. They need the ability to exercise the power they have and there is a serious problem with policing and the left right now but they certainly do not need any encouragement to beat the public.

Have you read green mile? That is exactly the type of situation that the justice system can deal with but the police absolutely cannot.

DeSantis just fired a lax prosecutor last week. She was a real POS for letting so many violent thugs back out on the street.

Good, I agree with that.

That does not negate the authoritarian policies and actions he generally supports. Most right wing pols are for firing lax prosecutors but I am not willing to vote for an authoritarian to get rid of bad prosecutors. I can shoot a moron that tries to break into my house. I cant do shit against a government official.

 

[FA_Q2]

You might find this interesting. I think it's a lot better than the left/right paradigm.
(turn your volume down)


People are so competitive, I think the L vs R thing is used to appeal to our competitive nature. Ever notice how the MSM makes political races seem more like a sports event? Words like "race, neck & neck in the polls, etc etc etc.
It's just simplified brain washing material.

Yes, the left right paradigm is just an extension of the duopolistic system we have. A political grid is far superior but even then not totally accurate. There are just to many details. The left right chart is, essentially, worthless in the extreme. It tells you nothing at all.

 

[dblack]

Yes, the left right paradigm is just an extension of the duopolistic system we have. A political grid is far superior but even then not totally accurate. There are just to many details. The left right chart is, essentially, worthless in the extreme. It tells you nothing at all.

And, as is the overall point of the thread, Democrats and Republican don't have any consistent ideologies anyway. They're just duking it out in the culture war pissing match. While the country burns.

 

[OldFlame]

You're point about voters not really caring about the issues is so accurate.

Someone on this forum stated something that's stuck in my brain since I read it, (maybe it was you)

"The concept of Trump is much better than Trump himself."

Someone on another forum stated "DeSantis isn't going to entertain people like Trump does."
Another spot on point.

The power of a salesman can be phenominal.

I think a lot of Trump supporters would agree that if someone else came out with the same platform/polices and 'tell it like it is' demeanor that he has, without all of the Trump baggage, they would be very successful. And the rabid left and the swamp in DC would go after that person as virulently as they go after Trump. Who could withstand that, especially from a financial position? At least with Trump, they've been forced to take the mask off that they've worn for years, but unfortunately it doesn't matter since the propaganda machine is run by them as well, and has a majority of people fooled. Just look on this board.

You can argue with these idiots until the cows come home about the details regarding Trump, but the truth is that they're also telling any future front runners that aren't one of 'them', that they will be destroyed if they attempt to get into the game. And they will destroy anyone that comes along after Trump that espouses his platform and gains huge popularity. They've shown they can get away with vast corruption, so even once Trump is out of the picture, this won't stop. And the same lemmings in here cheering the destruction of Trump will just be cheering on the demise of whoever takes his place. None of this is about Trump, it's about squashing the millions of people who support his platform.

Great thread btw, one of rare good ones.

 

[OKTexas]

This was posted on another thread. But it's so deep, and spot on, I think it would be worth wild to discuss this topic on it's own (since it wasn't really on topic of the OP in the other thread)

The political divide in this country, especially on forums like this stems from a lot of issues. Some are legit disagreements. And some are merely political loyalty. "Sticking it to the other side" seems to be the going thing. Revenge politics, as they say. But on a social level.



The proof in this statement can be seen in the many MANY flip flops the party's have taken in the last several decades. Used to be, the GOP was the party of fiscal conservatism. They still campaign on being fiscal conservatives. But the fact is, the right has spent more money and increased the debt ceiling more times since at least 1980, than the democrats have.
And as far as the democrats go, they used to be the party of border security. They're the ones who come up with the idea of fencing off the border and putting large amounts of border patrols on it. This was back when they seem to care about the working class Americans and wanted to protect their jobs.

Those are just two examples. But FA_Q2 nailed in his statement.

What republican is going to stand up against Trumps spending problem, in favor of keeping our economy from collapsing from inflation created by all the money he's going to borrow when he's re elected? What democrat is going to stand up against Biden's lax border problem, in favor of the American working man? Are these issue important enough for anyone to strongly oppose their party and it's leaders and decide for yourself, instead of being told what and who to support?

Well, ya got at least one thing wrong. The commiecrats have never been for border security, they always talk a good game, but never follow through. The best example was them getting Regan to grant amnesty to 3 million in exchange for border security, the amnesty was granted, but the security never came.

.

 

[FA_Q2]

Well, ya got at least one thing wrong. The commiecrats have never been for border security, they always talk a good game, but never follow through. The best example was them getting Regan to grant amnesty to 3 million in exchange for border security, the amnesty was granted, but the security never came.

.

Just like the right.

 

[OKTexas]

Just like the right.

If not for commiecrats, there would be a completed wall throughout the venerable areas at the southern border right now. Sell your propaganda elsewhere.

.

 

[FA_Q2]

If not for commiecrats, there would be a completed wall throughout the venerable areas at the southern border right now. Sell your propaganda elsewhere.

.

Uh huh.

And immigration would barely be effected.

 

[kaz]

It used to be that the republicans were the party of small business, and the democrats were the party of the working man.

Today, the attitude for both is fuck small business and fuck the working man.

Republican politicians suck, but most Republicans are traditional Americans who love their country and want government to leave them alone.

Democrats all joined together to agree on every issue and forgot what they were fighting for in the first place

 

[kaz]

When?

It's really a lot more accurate to say that fiscal conservatives are in the Republican party than that the party is fiscally conservative. Because other than that I can't think of a time that answers your question.

I wish that was more true of the Libertarian party, but most of them have mental health issues. It's really hard to be a small l libertarian in this country

 

[Oddball]

It's really a lot more accurate to say that fiscal conservatives are in the Republican party than that the party is fiscally conservative. Because other than that I can't think of a time that answers your question.

I wish that was more true of the Libertarian party, but most of them have mental health issues. It's really hard to be a small l libertarian in this country

Exactly why I dropped out altogether and went ancap/agorist.