Stand Up For Freedom

[Thunderbird]

Behaviors:

overeating

drug use

LGBT lifestyle

Ethnic groups:

African American

Native American

See the difference?

 

[Thunderbird]

Message to homosexual activists:

We don't hate you we just don't want to be forced to celebrate the lifestyle that is killing you.

Peace

 

[JOSweetHeart]

^^^ Amen to this. And its actually no help in keeping this planet as a whole going either. Since a man and a woman getting together is the only union that can replenish this planet like the Lord wants us to do, people who choose to do nothing but homosexual activity are pretty much nothing but a useless lump of human flesh.

God bless you always!!!

Holly

 

[Thunderbird]

 

[Thunderbird]

Homosexual activists vs. freedom: Punished for Faith The Violation of Julea Ward s Religious Freedom

 

[EverCurious]

Speaking of slippery slopes, you do realize that article is advocating for the government to be able to tell a private business what they may or may not discriminate against.

Typically we leave that stuff to the courts to decide, and they decide it, when you push it to the SCOTUS it becomes the precedence for the entire country; I'll note that this is exactly like what just happened with SSM; federal district court in the state ruled against, she pushed it, sixth court ruled in favor, the next step would be SCOTUS.

What happens if the university pushes it to the SCOTUS and they [again] rule that discrimination is not acceptable? It will mean that non-religious people cannot discriminate against religious people for their faith and that religious people cannot use their faith to discriminate against gays. I am okay with that.

OR the SCOTUS will rule that the university has a right to fire her for refusal to do her job and seemingly uphold a businesses right to discriminate. Problem is in this case you have someone who is claiming they were discriminated against for discriminating against someone else... If the ACA says that discrimination on sexual orientation is not allowed, then she broke the rules then you've got nothing. I don't agree with that, but it's how it goes.

 

[Thunderbird]

Speaking of slippery slopes, you do realize that article is advocating for the government to be able to tell a private business what they may or may not discriminate against.

You mean EMU? It is a publicly supported university.

If the ACA says that discrimination on sexual orientation is not allowed, then she broke the rules then you've got nothing. I don't agree with that, but it's how it goes.

You say you don't agree, so you think the ACA was wrong?

 

[EverCurious]

So EMU is government run then? Or is it privately run? I presumed the latter as that is usually the case.

That being said, I personally don't agree with /any/ discrimination. Be that religious folks against LGBTs or LGBT's against religious folks. I don't personally agree with PA laws in non-government run business; I say let the market decide a private businesses fate, but that's neither here nor there in the argument presented by either of us.


More to the point though, you peaked my interest. Your article was about a student studying to become a counselor, and as noted in your article, upon review “the school charged Ward with violating two provisions of the American Counseling Association's (ACA) code ethics: one against imposing values on clients "inconsistent with counseling goals" and one against discrimination based on sexual orientation. EMU expelled her.”

I went ahead and looked up the ACA Code of Ethics (http://www.counseling.org/docs/ethics/2014-aca-code-of-ethics.pdf?sfvrsn=4) and right off the bat I can see a number of potential conflicts with this woman's approach to counseling as a whole. That aside though she /clearly/ violated the following;

A.11.b. “Councilors refrain from referring prospective and current clients based solely on the counselor’s personally held values, attitudes, beliefs, and behaviors Councilors respect the diversity of clients, trainees, and research participants, and seek training in areas in which they are at risk of imposing their values onto clients, especially when the counselor’s values are inconsistent with the client’s goals or are discriminatory in nature.”

Now, I didn’t read too deep further than that because the point is that she violated the ACA Code of Ethics and therefore could /not/ qualify for ACA certification, but I will say that the title of B.1.a. is titled “Multicultural/Diversity Considerations” and section C is all about the “Professional Responsibilities” of the councilor and notes in the first sentences of the introduction that “Councilors facilitate access to counseling services, and they practice in a nondiscriminatory manner” which is clearly not the case here.


The biggest snarl comes in when I read the actual case from the Sixth in 2012 because it appears the school had a "blanket rule" that practicum students /cannot/ refer any clients to other councilors, which she alleges she wasn't told about by her professors. That is what the Sixth case was centered on, more so than your proposed argument that "the LGBT activist school discriminated against her due to her religious beliefs," which her lawyers merely cite as a "plausible reason" for why she allegedly wasn't told about the no-referral rule. To wit:

"Based on the professors’ and Ward’s statements [re ACA Code of Ethics referral procedures], a reasonable jury could conclude that practicum students were required to follow the written code of ethics [which allows referrals], not an unwritten (yet-to-be-enforced) no-referrals policy. The epitome of a pretextual explanation for a student’s expulsion is a reason never expressed or invoked before."

AKA the Sixth agrees that Ward has a valid legal point on that and they reversed the lower courts ruling. I agree, a school should not have an unwritten and un-conveyed policy of curricular practice by which they can expel students. On that basis she should not have been expelled and I am positive that the district court would have to agree it is not a "fair" policy to enforce upon reassessment.

However, it seems that Ward decided to push the "religious discrimination" angle to pursue "monitory damages" , instead of simply using the law to win the case and move on with her life.

As a note, the premise that Ward was discriminated against due to her religion is based on statements made by the [second, formal] review panel consisting of 2 faculty members, one faculty member for the education leadership program, and a student representative - to paraphrase the review process, they essentially asked her if her religious beliefs caused her to be unable to properly council LGBT's and she basically said yes if they wanted to talk about their relationships. (aka she would ask that the client be referred to a different councilor.) On it's face, she would be complying to ACA Code of Ethics if she requested a referral, but that Ward would have to prove religious discrimination to be entitled to money-damages.


So what we actually have here is either a) a /religious/ activist or b) someone who wanted money. What we do not have here is an LGBT activist, anywhere.

The Sixth reversed and remanded to the district court, however, the school chose to settle (which makes sense because of they expelled her on an unwritten policy,) so unfortunately we do not have any ruling on if it was religious discrimination or not. If they'd gone to court, then we might have a proven case of religious discrimination.

 

[paddymurphy]

The sun will be out, birds will be singing, children will be playing... keep your head up!

It's supposed to rain tomorrow, but I'm sure the birds will be singing and the children playing. Not sure how that is relevant. lol

Do you believe in freedom or not?

Freedom won today. Be happy.

Who's freedom? Not mine.

No the freedom of gay Americans. And it did not affect your freedom one damn bit.

 

[paddymurphy]

Time to stand up for freedom!

Homosexual activists vs. freedom: Protecting Religious Liberty in the State Marriage Debate

Forced indoctrination in the schools: Harvey Milk Day - SaveCalifornia.com

People have the right to criticize the gay lifestyle. People should not be forced to celebrate this lifestyle. Activist fanatics and the established order are trying to strip us of rights.

The word liberal is associated with the word liberty. Liberals should join conservatives in defending basic rights like freedom of speech and freedom of religion.

Harvey Milk!!! Bless his child molesting soul! I think they should dig that critter up, have Obuttfuk present him with a Presidential Medal of Freedom, then feed him to the hogs.

There's Hoss with his buttfucking obsession.

 

[paddymurphy]

Freedom won today. Be happy.

Check out the articles I linked to. Is forcing bakers, florists, photographers to participate in a ceremony freedom?! Is forcing children to celebrate the life of a pedophile freedom?! Is firing an African American woman because she disagrees with gay activist dogma freedom?!

No one has been forced to participate in a ceremony. Baking a cake that is later served at a reception is not participating in the ceremony. Milk was not a pedophile.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Time to stand up for freedom!

Homosexual activists vs. freedom: Protecting Religious Liberty in the State Marriage Debate

Forced indoctrination in the schools: Harvey Milk Day - SaveCalifornia.com

People have the right to criticize the gay lifestyle. People should not be forced to celebrate this lifestyle. Activist fanatics and the established order are trying to strip us of rights.

The word liberal is associated with the word liberty. Liberals should join conservatives in defending basic rights like freedom of speech and freedom of religion.

Ignorant, unfounded nonsense and hyperbole.

No one opposes the right of anyone to criticize gay Americans.

And no one is forcing anyone to 'celebrate' any 'lifestyle,' nor is anyone trying to 'strip' anyone of his rights.

You and others on the right are at complete liberty to engage in your ridiculous and unwarranted hatred of gay Americans, and to exhibit that ridiculous and unwarranted hate.

 

[Hossfly]

Time to stand up for freedom!

Homosexual activists vs. freedom: Protecting Religious Liberty in the State Marriage Debate

Forced indoctrination in the schools: Harvey Milk Day - SaveCalifornia.com

People have the right to criticize the gay lifestyle. People should not be forced to celebrate this lifestyle. Activist fanatics and the established order are trying to strip us of rights.

The word liberal is associated with the word liberty. Liberals should join conservatives in defending basic rights like freedom of speech and freedom of religion.

Harvey Milk!!! Bless his child molesting soul! I think they should dig that critter up, have Obuttfuk present him with a Presidential Medal of Freedom, then feed him to the hogs.

There's Hoss with his buttfucking obsession.

That's President Obuttfuk to you, Cecil.

 

[Thunderbird]

What we do not have here is an LGBT activist, anywhere.

How do you know that? lol Can we agree that expelling a student from a public university, depriving her of her chosen profession, because she'd rather not affirm or validate homosexual relationships is inappropriate?

 

[Thunderbird]

No one has been forced to participate in a ceremony. Baking a cake that is later served at a reception is not participating in the ceremony. Milk was not a pedophile.

Looks like you are unable to accept the facts.

Prominent journalist Randy Shilts has shown that Milk had sex with a child. Milk was also himself molested as a child.

The Pedophile Elephant in the Gay Activist Closet - Voice of Revolution

 

[SassyIrishLass]

No one has been forced to participate in a ceremony. Baking a cake that is later served at a reception is not participating in the ceremony. Milk was not a pedophile.

Looks like you are unable to accept the facts.

Prominent journalist Randy Shilts has shown that Milk had sex with a child. Milk was also himself molested as a child.

The Pedophile Elephant in the Gay Activist Closet - Voice of Revolution

Technically Milk was a pederast....but it's just word play. He molested a kid

 

[paddymurphy]

No one has been forced to participate in a ceremony. Baking a cake that is later served at a reception is not participating in the ceremony. Milk was not a pedophile.

Looks like you are unable to accept the facts.

Prominent journalist Randy Shilts has shown that Milk had sex with a child. Milk was also himself molested as a child.

The Pedophile Elephant in the Gay Activist Closet - Voice of Revolution

Technically Milk was a pederast....but it's just word play. He molested a kid

No he did not. Lying POS.

 

[SassyIrishLass]

No one has been forced to participate in a ceremony. Baking a cake that is later served at a reception is not participating in the ceremony. Milk was not a pedophile.

Looks like you are unable to accept the facts.

Prominent journalist Randy Shilts has shown that Milk had sex with a child. Milk was also himself molested as a child.

The Pedophile Elephant in the Gay Activist Closet - Voice of Revolution

Technically Milk was a pederast....but it's just word play. He molested a kid

No he did not. Lying POS.

It's common knowledge, dumb ass. Now run along, I have little patience for you, you're a repulsive asshole

 

[EverCurious]

What we do not have here is an LGBT activist, anywhere.

How do you know that? lol Can we agree that expelling a student from a public university, depriving her of her chosen profession, because she'd rather not affirm or validate homosexual relationships is inappropriate?

Because no LGBT was pushing a lawsuit about being discriminated against in your case; rather a student alleged that they were expelled based on their religious beliefs. It's possible that one or more of the persons in the formal review panel did not agree with her decision to refuse to help LGBT clients with their relationships, on the other hand, perhaps they merely felt that discrimination against LGBT was not proper for her position because it was against the ACA Code of Ethics. Either way, that does not equate to an LGBT activist.

On the latter, yes I can agree with that as you have presented; I also feel that the school should remove their no-referral "blanket policy" and they should respect the students desire not to help LGBT folks with relationships due to religious beliefs. However, I do not agree that you have provided an example of LGBT activism v. religious beliefs, which was my point.

Ward would likely do fine as a councilor, so long as the school was willing to accept her referrals as they would any other referral from a councilor. Really my only concern would be an extreme outlier situation that's really doesn't merit special procedure: aka if she developed a long-standing councilor relationship with a client, and that client were to "come out of the closet," then the "professional relationship" that had been established would have to be severed and a new councilor for the client found. Kind of like having to abruptly find a new lawyer; it's a somewhat stressful process, though not an issue that warrants special notation in the rules. Though I do find her apparent inability to separate her personal beliefs from her job slightly troubling, as long as she's not telling every client to go to church I don't know that it matters that much (I could see some occasions when it would be appropriate for a councilor to tell their client to go to church, just not every client.)

 

[Thunderbird]

It's possible that one or more of the persons in the formal review panel did not agree with her decision to refuse to help LGBT clients with their relationships,

I think she would have been happy to help, just not in the way LGBT activists demand.

on the other hand, perhaps they merely felt that discrimination against LGBT was not proper for her position because it was against the ACA Code of Ethics. Either way, that does not equate to an LGBT activist.

The people working to expel this young woman may well be LGBT activists.

LGBT activists infest quite a few universities.

WORLD Court says college administrator has no right to oppose gay rights Leigh Jones Dec. 21 2012

On the latter, yes I can agree with that as you have presented;

Glad we agree.