When exactly does the Democrats' socialism kick in?

[IM2]

Wrong.

Corporations are government creations stupid, and are currently more woke than Kamala.

And how many people is socialism helping in countries like North Korea and Venezuela?

Hmm?

Try again.

I know you can't do it, but I like being proven wrong every 10 years or so if possible.

Talk to the people in Greece and Portugal.

North Korea is not socialist. It is totalitarian. Same with Venezuela.

 

[TruthNotBS]

Talk to the people in Greece and Portugal.

North Korea is not socialist. It is totalitarian. Same with Venezuela.

It is totalitarian, and I'm not in agreement with that, but much of what we hear about it in the Western, capitalist-controlled media is exaggerated and just plain BS. The defenders of capitalism, have no moral high ground.

 

[GLASNOST]

Sure genius, the American working class was the world's aristocracy of labor, after WW2. If you know your history, the US came out of the war unscathed, unlike the Soviets who lost 28 million people and much of the infrastructure that they had built in the previous twenty years. During the great depression in the US and Western Europe, the Soviets were actually doing quite well, to the point that thousands of American and Western European engineers and scientists migrated to Stalin's Soviet Russia, to contribute to the new nation's development.

After WW2, the Soviets had to pick themselves up by their own bootstraps and rebuild their new country. Unlike Western Europe and Japan, the Soviets didn't have the "Marshal Plan", funded by the US, to help them redevelop their countries. The Soviets had to do it on their own, and in less than 15 years, it was a nuclear power, launching the first satellites and even people into space.

The Soviets despite all of the challenges built their economy to the point that it was the second largest economy in the world by 1970, only second to the USA. Not bad for a new country, constantly being economically sanctioned and attacked militarily by powerful, well established, older, much more entrenched, and developed enemies, like the USA, huh? The US had over 100 years of industrialization ahead of the USSR.

If you notice, Berlin was in Eastern Germany, a part of Germany that was communist, and for security reasons primarily the wall was built. They had American, British, and French forces in the heart of their country, so they built a wall around Berlin. Now if you claim that it was also built to keep people from East Germany defecting into Western-controlled Berlin, you are partly correct. I'm not going to deny it and lie to you.

So let me get this straight, you invest your resources in training scientists, engineers, and doctors, to serve your country, when it is trying to get back on its feet after a devastating world war, that killed 14% of your population (28 million people), and the enemy across your border is constantly tempting those highly educated and trained citizens of your country, to defect and drain your nation of its intelligentsia and academics. It's called "brain drain", and yes East Germany and the USSR did restrict travel outside of its borders for its citizens., as a matter of survival.

The USSR was essentially always at war, in an existential battle against extremely powerful enemies. If it wasn't a hot war, it was a cold war, draining resources that could've been used to improve the lives of Soviet citizens.

What your capitalist propaganda does not tell you is that despite those restrictions, Soviet citizens still did travel outside of the USSR, and also extensively within the USSR, which was an enormous country, with many different interesting places to visit.

Very well written.

The average Soviet citizen went on vacation just as much as their American counterparts, if not more.

More, actually.

The Soviet Union developed an extensive system of programs and institutions to provide recreational activities and vacation opportunities for its working-class citizens. These programs were part of the state's commitment to ensuring that all citizens had access to leisure and rest, which were considered essential for maintaining a healthy and productive society.

All true.

 

[RoshawnMarkwees]

January 21, 2009.

 

[IM2]

It is totalitarian, and I'm not in agreement with that, but much of what we hear about it in the Western, capitalist-controlled media is exaggerated and just plain BS. The defenders of capitalism, have no moral high ground.

True. You won't see me defending U.S. greedalism. As fas as N Korea goes, I just don't like these stooges trying to use it as an example of socialism when it isn't. And for some of us this country has not been the paragon of freedom that these right wingers declare it to be.

 

[Flopper]

Very well written.

More, actually.

All true.

Very well written.

More, actually.

All true.

The USSR no longer exist. In Russia, there are only 50,000 members of the communist party

 

[TruthNotBS]

The USSR no longer exist. In Russia, there are only 50,000 members of the communist party

Yes, and what's your point? Let's see if you're able to reason.

 

[TruthNotBS]

The USSR no longer exist. In Russia, there are only 50,000 members of the communist party

For the sake of others, not the dead-brained flopper, I'm going to respond to his disingenuous, stupid remarks.

He reminds us that "the USSR no longer exists" and my response is, so what? You're not in any way debunking socialism or communism by pointing out that the Soviet Union lost the Cold War and dissolved itself. Many capitalist nations have also failed, does that automatically by default imply that capitalism is inferior to socialism? I've already on several occasions shown how socialism bails out capitalism every few years and provides capitalists with plenty of public funds to stay afloat:

Rank	Parent	Subsidy Value	Number of Awards
1	Boeing	$15,496,865,703	958
2	Intel	$8,421,707,656	135
3	Ford Motor	$7,742,056,086	703
4	General Motors	$7,524,714,800	792
5	Micron Technology	$6,790,131,915	21
6	Amazon.com	$5,823,705,434	460
7	Alcoa	$5,727,691,764	134
8	Cheniere Energy	$5,617,152,523	43
9	Foxconn Technology Group (Hon Hai Precision Industry Company)	$4,820,110,112	74
10	Venture Global LNG	$4,338,702,441	8
11	Texas Instruments	$4,286,328,869	69
12	Volkswagen	$3,977,630,513	217
13	Sempra Energy	$3,828,022,782	51
14	NRG Energy	$3,415,751,518	266
15	NextEra Energy	$3,008,691,129	116
16	Sasol	$2,836,049,845	72
17	Tesla Inc.	$2,829,855,494	114
18	Stellantis	$2,795,436,436	213
19	Walt Disney	$2,543,219,673	265
20	Nucor	$2,538,761,123	176
21	Iberdrola	$2,380,558,984	110
22	Rivian Automotive Inc.	$2,364,054,012	7
23	Hyundai Motor	$2,349,743,470	18
24	Oracle	$2,272,418,288	96
25	Shell PLC	$2,211,676,001	132
26	Mubadala Investment Company	$2,124,035,097	62
27	Nike	$2,104,917,829	153
28	Meta Platforms Inc.	$2,098,261,272	82
29	Toyota	$2,071,010,689	239
30	Alphabet Inc.	$2,054,325,527	125
31	Brookfield Corporation	$1,979,408,388	288
32	Paramount Global	$1,974,249,897	342
33	Comcast	$1,927,402,844	405
34	Exxon Mobil	$1,917,119,478	241
35	Samsung Electronics	$1,891,136,597	41
36	Apple Inc.	$1,845,004,670	63
37	Nissan	$1,842,814,165	98
38	Berkshire Hathaway	$1,830,986,253	1,200
39	Summit Power	$1,783,593,414	6
40	JPMorgan Chase	$1,740,972,699	1,151
41	Energy Transfer	$1,736,836,843	175
42	Cleveland-Cliffs	$1,705,497,604	129
43	Southern Company	$1,694,958,172	45
44	General Electric	$1,645,135,367	958
45	Vornado Realty Trust	$1,623,857,336	33
46	Duke Energy	$1,580,421,869	86
47	Wolfspeed Inc.	$1,563,595,610	64
48	General Atomics	$1,510,875,891	112
49	IBM Corp.	$1,497,901,697	368
50	Lockheed Martin	$1,462,674,082	325
51	OGE Energy	$1,427,570,182	15
52	SCS Energy	$1,419,011,796	5
53	Corning Inc.	$1,391,603,359	401
54	Panasonic	$1,384,147,584	61
55	Microsoft	$1,366,243,159	113
56	Sagamore Development	$1,320,000,000	2
57	Northrop Grumman	$1,284,014,883	285
58	Vingroup	$1,254,000,000	1
59	Continental AG	$1,244,875,478	111
60	RTX Corporation	$1,193,950,954	797
61	CF Industries	$1,134,394,215	131
62	Valero Energy	$1,053,812,692	207
63	Dow Inc.	$1,049,354,213	640
64	AES Corp.	$1,039,510,135	136
65	Air Products & Chemicals	$1,025,557,482	88
66	Exelon	$986,892,877	98
67	Pyramid Companies	$973,565,278	93
68	SK Holdings	$960,550,283	8
69	SkyWest	$944,296,654	339
70	Centene	$916,607,054	60
71	Mazda Toyota Manufacturing, U.S.A., Inc.	$900,000,000	1
72	Apollo Global Management	$897,750,089	594
73	Delta Air Lines	$871,485,833	13
74	Jefferies Financial Group	$871,137,335	16
75	SK Hynix	$866,700,000	2
76	Bayer	$852,475,226	217
77	Honda	$849,832,301	93
78	Shin-Etsu Chemical	$828,683,936	106
79	Enterprise Products Partners	$826,988,371	89
80	SunEdison	$817,425,725	115
81	Goldman Sachs	$800,873,386	253
82	Bank of America	$798,426,128	956
83	E.ON	$786,865,473	40
84	Warner Bros. Discovery Inc.	$786,835,708	219
85	EDF-Electricite de France	$774,590,441	36
86	Triple Five Worldwide	$748,000,000	4
87	EDP-Energias de Portugal	$733,674,868	14
88	Related Companies	$714,675,504	8
89	Koch Industries	$683,066,388	510
90	Caithness Energy	$672,688,888	30
91	Dell Technologies	$658,417,951	185
92	Wells Fargo	$657,333,216	542
93	FedEx	$647,035,546	633
94	Entergy	$638,533,387	235
95	OCI N.V.	$627,879,406	5
96	Eli Lilly	$623,326,368	79
97	Chevron Phillips Chemical	$619,839,444	20
98	Bedrock Detroit	$618,000,000	1
99	Dominion Energy	$615,436,089	79

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Socialism for the richest people in our society.​

Socialism is still alive and kicking regardless of whether the USSR is still in existence or not. We constantly hear these Republican conservatives calling everything that the government does to serve the American public, like healthcare, education, housing and feeding the poor, protecting labor rights..etc, as "COMMIE", COMMUNIST, socialist..etc. OK right-wing MAGA hats, if the Democrats are all a bunch of "coimmies" for being for the aforementioned government policies, then practically all of Western Europe is "COMMIE". What a mess you've created for yourselves.

Another thing worth considering is the fact that, just because the USSR made mistakes and eventually lost its struggle with the Western capitalist elites, that doesn't imply that socialism won't eventually replace capitalism in the future when conditions permit. Did capitalism replace chattel slavery and feudalism overnight? Did republicanism, replace monarchism, the Western notion of the "divine right of kings" in one definable event in history or with one single swoop of the sword? Did the European merchant capitalist class replace the royal aristocracy of Europe, with all of the feudal lords, in only one revolution or war?

Modern republicanism in many ways is a baby of capitalism, supported by the merchant classes.
Modern, Western, industrial-age socialism, was born from capitalism. How long did it take for republics to replace monarchies in the Western world? It didn't happen in one century or even two or three, it took hundreds of years. So why demand that if modern socialism or communism is an effective, valid economic and sociopolitical system it must defeat and replace capitalism quickly, in a matter of decades or in one or two centuries?

Capitalism didn't replace feudalism overnight, nor did the republicans replace the monarchists, in one single victory or swoop of their swords, so why demand that socialists or communists, replace capitalists in the blink of an eye, in one single try? Why, isn't that hypocritical?

The merchants became the powerful capitalist industrialists of the 19th century, the so-called guilded age, replacing the European royal aristocracy and "old money", becoming the new ruling class. The industrialists, the merchants of the industrial age, became the new elites, employing droves of laborers to work their factories and many other businesses. That didn't happen overnight, yet according to the defenders of capitalism, socialism must defeat and replace capitalism, with a snap of their fingers and never suffer a defeat or set back. I believe Rocky from the movie, lost against Apollo Creed, in his first attempt to take the heavyweight title. Then he came back and won.

The USSR accomplished so much that we are now still talking about it and debating over it. It has left its dent in the universe, it has left us its legacy to inspire socialists to do it right the next time. The next time, we will have much more advanced technology, pretty much ensuring our success. We have technology today that the Soviets could only dream of.

Now I hear the stupid response with respect to technology, by the defenders of capitalism, claiming that all the modern technology that we have today is thanks to capitalism. Only ignorant capitalist apologists resort to such silly, moronic
arguments.

​

The government is heavily involved in the funding, research, and development of advanced technology. If not for the government, we wouldn't be communicating here on the internet. Both the US and the Soviets, have made important contributions to science and technology. Moreover, do these capitalist polemicists realize that capitalism relied on technology that was previously funded and developed by kings and feudal lords..etc? If not for all of the science and technology developed before capitalism, there would have been no industrial age, nor would've republics replaced monarchies in the Western world. Capitalist arguments and objections are practically always superficial, if not dishonest.