Stop ridiculing Single Payer HC insurance...and think on your own

[Redfish]

Funny how you do not even recognize that single payer insurance has failed everywhere it's been tried but you tell others to thunk for themselves

Learn something......(besides what Sean hannity feeds your half brain)

Single-Payer Myths; Single-Payer Facts

Facts about National Health Insurance (NHI) You Might Not Know

The health care delivery system remains private. As opposed to a national health service, where the government employs doctors, in a national health insurance system, the government is billed, but doctors remain in private
practice.

A national health insurance program could save approximately $150 billion on paperwork alone. Because of the administrative complexities in our current system, over 25% of every health care dollar goes to marketing, billing,
utilization review, and other forms of waste. A single-payer system could reduce administrative costs greatly.

Most businesses would save money. Because a single-payer system is more efficient than our current system, health care costs are less, and therefore, businesses save money. In Canada, the three major auto manufacturers (Ford, GM, and Daimler-Chrysler) have all publicly endorsed Canada’s single-payer health system from a business and financial standpoint. In the United States, Ford pays more for its workers health insurance than it does for the steel to make its cars.

Under NHI, your insurance doesn’t depend on your job. Whether you’re a student, professor, or working part-time raising children, you’re provided with care. Not only does this lead to a healthier population, but it’s also beneficial from an economic standpoint: workers are less-tied to their
employers, and those that dislike their current positions can find new work
(where they would be happier and most likely more productive and efficient).

Myths about National Health Insurance (NHI)

The government would dictate how physicians practice medicine.
In countries with a national health insurance system, physicians are rarely questioned about their medical practices (and usually only in cases of expected fraud). Compare it to today’s system, where doctors routinely have to ask an insurance company permission to perform procedures, prescribe certain medications, or run certain tests to help their patients.

Waits for services would be extremely long.
Again, in countries with NHI, urgent care is always provided immediately. Other countries do experience some waits for elective procedures (like cataract removal), but maintaining the US’s same level of health expenditures (twice as much as the next-highest country), waits would be much shorter or even non-existent.

People will overutilize the system.
Most estimates do indicate that there would be some increased utilization of the system (mostly from the 42 million people that are currently uninsured and therefore not receiving adequate health care), however the staggering savings from a single-payer system would easily compensate for this. (And remember, doctors still control most health care utilization. Patients don’t receive prescriptions or tests because they want them; they receive them because their doctors have deemed them appropriate.)

Government programs are wasteful and inefficient.
Some are better than others, just as some businesses are better than others. Just to name a few of the most successful and helpful: the National Institutes of Health, the Centers for Disease Control, and Social Security. Even consider Medicare, the government program for the elderly; its overhead is approximately 3%, while in private insurance companies, overhead and profits add up to 15-25%.

Single-Payer Myths; Single-Payer Facts | Physicians for a National Health Program

 

[nat4900]

And once again - your post shows a glaring lack of ability to put two and two together.
You say we should have a system like European countries have - yet that system depends on them not having a large military budget. "What does it have to do with it" - holy shit.

In other words, fucked up morons.....like you.......would THEN rather defend other countries through our military spending THAN to take care of fellow citizens'health care?????

Is that what an idiot like you is advocating????...........LOL

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

I have seen several threads on here mocking Bernie Sanders' attempt (and now he actually has a bill in the Senate) to push for Medicare for All insurance.

The mocking that goes on is two-fold.....First, the blanket (and ignorant) conclusion that anything that smacks of socialism is automatically "bad"...............and Second, that the government CANNOT afford to insure everyone with the somewhat ill-informed mantra of "where would the money come from?"

Addressing the latter, the answer is surprisingly quite simple: The money would come from DIVERTING what we all are paying private health care insurance companies and that same (or lesser) amount would be paid to our country's treasury....Bear in mind the following facts:

• Currently, the average household expenditure on HC is over $10,000
• 55 million of our population is ALREADY on government Medicare
• Our government currently expends $60 plus BILLIONS on Medicaid
• 60% of ALL bankruptcies are due to HC
• The current cost of liability insurance for medical care is over $60 Billion per year....and a good portion of that would be eliminated if HC insurance were under the federal umbrella
• Whereas wages increased by less than 4% in the last 10 years, private HC premiums increased by 88%.
• Private HC companies'CEO's compensation is approximately $200 MILLION per year

Now, it is difficult to eradicate the right wing entrenched opinion that anything that is socialized is automatically bad......The brainwashing has been so thorough, that no amount of data as to how other countries pay less than half in their socialized medicine offerings, and that people in these other countries actually live LONGER and are healthier.

BUT, if we were to stop and open our minds to the analysis that in our country, private health care insurance is outrageously ripping us off, and that an increase in taxes from our paycheck is the SAME as sending a check to some private insurance company, THEN the Sanders' rationale is much less open to mockery.

Bottom line is this......Who would "lose" under Medicare for ALL in this nation???.....Private HC companies. AND who would win under this same plan?,,,,,,,,,ALL OF US!!!!

How Much Money Do Insurance Companies Make? A Primer - The ...
18 Ridiculous Statistics About The Health Care Industry That Will ...
Private Health Insurance Premiums and Federal Policy ...

Actually, private health insurance companies would benefit from a comprehensive Medicare program.

Indeed, it would allow private health insurance companies to return to the business of selling health insurance, not health maintenance.

With everyone afforded coverage under Medicare, private insurance companies could once again refuse to insure those with pre-existing conditions, refuse to cover the adult children of policyholders, and charge whatever they so desired for coverage to ensure profitability.

Health insurance programs would return to their original intent, and function like homeowners’ insurance or car insurance – something policyholders hope they never use, and something very profitable for health insurance companies.

Private health insurance companies should be the most enthusiastic supporters of Medicare for all.

 

[Redfish]

One Simple Question:

What happen to the ACA that was suppose to drive down costs and save Americans money while covering everyone?

....and the answer is.........The ACA was flawed from the beginning since it was co-opted by several special interests such as big pharma. HOWEVER, it DID insure many fellow Americans who never had such coverage and DID break the back of may companies who refused to insure folks with preexisting conditions (THAT WILL NEVER BE REVERSED regardless of how much private insurers may bitch about)...........Further, the ACA has met every means by bribed conservatives to sabotage it.

Unless a truly better system is adopted (such as single-payer)......ultimately, the best that current republicans can hope for is to replace "Obamacare" with an improved ACA.

there are as many americans uninsured today as before ACA. It fixed nothing.

no one in the USA was denied medical care before ACA. being uninsured did not mean being untreated. ACA was nothing but an attempt to allow the government to take over 1/6 of our economy.

 

[nat4900]

My private insurer has never denied me anything. However, the single payer VA has denied thousands of vets the treatments that could have saved them.....you lost this thread to logic, facts, and common sense, gnat

Yeah, sure, who could ever argue with such "brilliant and well documented facts"....

.What an asshole...LOL

 

[Redfish]

I have seen several threads on here mocking Bernie Sanders' attempt (and now he actually has a bill in the Senate) to push for Medicare for All insurance.

The mocking that goes on is two-fold.....First, the blanket (and ignorant) conclusion that anything that smacks of socialism is automatically "bad"...............and Second, that the government CANNOT afford to insure everyone with the somewhat ill-informed mantra of "where would the money come from?"

Addressing the latter, the answer is surprisingly quite simple: The money would come from DIVERTING what we all are paying private health care insurance companies and that same (or lesser) amount would be paid to our country's treasury....Bear in mind the following facts:

• Currently, the average household expenditure on HC is over $10,000
• 55 million of our population is ALREADY on government Medicare
• Our government currently expends $60 plus BILLIONS on Medicaid
• 60% of ALL bankruptcies are due to HC
• The current cost of liability insurance for medical care is over $60 Billion per year....and a good portion of that would be eliminated if HC insurance were under the federal umbrella
• Whereas wages increased by less than 4% in the last 10 years, private HC premiums increased by 88%.
• Private HC companies'CEO's compensation is approximately $200 MILLION per year

Now, it is difficult to eradicate the right wing entrenched opinion that anything that is socialized is automatically bad......The brainwashing has been so thorough, that no amount of data as to how other countries pay less than half in their socialized medicine offerings, and that people in these other countries actually live LONGER and are healthier.

BUT, if we were to stop and open our minds to the analysis that in our country, private health care insurance is outrageously ripping us off, and that an increase in taxes from our paycheck is the SAME as sending a check to some private insurance company, THEN the Sanders' rationale is much less open to mockery.

Bottom line is this......Who would "lose" under Medicare for ALL in this nation???.....Private HC companies. AND who would win under this same plan?,,,,,,,,,ALL OF US!!!!

How Much Money Do Insurance Companies Make? A Primer - The ...
18 Ridiculous Statistics About The Health Care Industry That Will ...
Private Health Insurance Premiums and Federal Policy ...

Actually, private health insurance companies would benefit from a comprehensive Medicare program.

Indeed, it would allow private health insurance companies to return to the business of selling health insurance, not health maintenance.

With everyone afforded coverage under Medicare, private insurance companies could once again refuse to insure those with pre-existing conditions, refuse to cover the adult children of policyholders, and charge whatever they so desired for coverage to ensure profitability.

Health insurance programs would return to their original intent, and function like homeowners’ insurance or car insurance – something policyholders hope they never use, and something very profitable for health insurance companies.

Private health insurance companies should be the most enthusiastic supporters of Medicare for all.

bullshit. basic medicare does not involve private insurance companies.

 

[Redfish]

My private insurer has never denied me anything. However, the single payer VA has denied thousands of vets the treatments that could have saved them.....you lost this thread to logic, facts, and common sense, gnat

Yeah, sure, who could ever argue with such "brilliant and well documented facts"....

.What an asshole...LOL

yes, gnat. " what an asshole" is an apt description of you, you prove that with each new post.

you want a VA like system for all of us. You are an idiot.

 

[whitehall]

I still wonder if Sanders had any communication with his avid supporter James Hodgkinson during the weeks before he was living out of his car and planning to assassinate an entire republican baseball team. It's only been a couple of months but the mainstream media dropped the case faster than Hodgkinson achieved room temperature. If Sanders was a republican the media wouldn't have let him off the hook so easy and he'd probably be out of a job.

 

[nat4900]

Key Facts about the Uninsured Population[/URL]

 

[Mac1958]

Actually, private health insurance companies would benefit from a comprehensive Medicare program. Indeed, it would allow private health insurance companies to return to the business of selling health insurance, not health maintenance.

I would agree if that were the case. I advocate for a full expansion of the current Medicare / Medicare Supplement / Medicare Advantage public/private partnership that allows for dynamic free market competition to fill the significant gaps in traditional Medicare coverage.

But according to the plan that I've read, this plan is pure, 100% Single Payer.

So he's labeling it dishonestly, and so are those are pushing it, assuming they even know what they're talking about. This is NOT "Medicare For All".
.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Comprehensive Medicare coverage would also contribute to economic growth, business expansion, and the creation of jobs.

There are many frustrated would-be entrepreneurs who would like to start their own businesses, but are unable to do so because their current employer affords them generous health insurance coverage for their families, coverage they could never afford on their own.

Liberated from the need to address his family’s healthcare costs, an entrepreneur prepared to do so could leave his current employer and start his own business, hire his own employees, and benefit his community’s economic condition.

 

[2aguy]

Comprehensive Medicare coverage would also contribute to economic growth, business expansion, and the creation of jobs.

There are many frustrated would-be entrepreneurs who would like to start their own businesses, but are unable to do so because their current employer affords them generous health insurance coverage for their families, coverage they could never afford on their own.

Liberated from the need to address his family’s healthcare costs, an entrepreneur prepared to do so could leave his current employer and start his own business, hire his own employees, and benefit his community’s economic condition.

No...it won't.....it will destroy our healthcare system, which before obamacare over 80% of the people were happy with, and it will crush the economy.....it will also destroy medical innovation the one thing that will really help sick people.

Those people who would like to start businesses, but you say can't because of healthcare, won't be able to start those businesses because the tax rates to provide "Free Healthcare" will be so high, they won't be able to make a profit.......

 

[nat4900]

it will destroy our healthcare system, which before obamacare over 80% of the people were happy with, and it will crush the economy...

Are you sure it wasn't 79% or 83%???....................LOL

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Private health insurance companies will co-exist with comprehensive Medicare – it’s not a ‘one or the other’ situation.

If one doesn’t wish to use Medicare he’s at liberty to purchase a private health insurance policy, assuming he can afford to do so.

Obviously, such policies will be relatively expensive – but individuals would not be ‘forced’ to use Medicare alone.

And individuals would be able to purchase supplemental policies in addition to using Medicare, as is the case now.

 

[Thinker101]

opefully during that process you managed to figure out how Medicare actually works. And you would know Medicare for all would be EXTREMELY expensive.

Well, you're "right".....We MUST subsidize HC companies CEO's Lear jets and we MUST help hospitals build lobbies with Italian marble and fountains, and we MUST give quite a few dollars to drug companies so they can even further flood the TV markets with their ads....as "legal" drug pushers.

Ok then, good to know you have no clue...as usual.

 

[nat4900]

opefully during that process you managed to figure out how Medicare actually works. And you would know Medicare for all would be EXTREMELY expensive.

Well, you're "right".....We MUST subsidize HC companies CEO's Lear jets and we MUST help hospitals build lobbies with Italian marble and fountains, and we MUST give quite a few dollars to drug companies so they can even further flood the TV markets with their ads....as "legal" drug pushers.

Ok then, good to know you have no clue...as usual.

I write:

.......We MUST subsidize HC companies CEO's Lear jets and we MUST help hospitals build lobbies with Italian marble and fountains, and we MUST give quite a few dollars to drug companies so they can even further flood the TV markets with their ads....as "legal" drug
pushers.....

....and THIS is your response????

......good to know you have no clue...as usual......

Well, we needed another right wing MORON with reading comprehension issues to chime in and bump the thread...."thanks" for volunteering....LOL

 

[ThunderKiss1965]

I have seen several threads on here mocking Bernie Sanders' attempt (and now he actually has a bill in the Senate) to push for Medicare for All insurance.

The mocking that goes on is two-fold.....First, the blanket (and ignorant) conclusion that anything that smacks of socialism is automatically "bad"...............and Second, that the government CANNOT afford to insure everyone with the somewhat ill-informed mantra of "where would the money come from?"

Addressing the latter, the answer is surprisingly quite simple: The money would come from DIVERTING what we all are paying private health care insurance companies and that same (or lesser) amount would be paid to our country's treasury....Bear in mind the following facts:

• Currently, the average household expenditure on HC is over $10,000
• 55 million of our population is ALREADY on government Medicare
• Our government currently expends $60 plus BILLIONS on Medicaid
• 60% of ALL bankruptcies are due to HC
• The current cost of liability insurance for medical care is over $60 Billion per year....and a good portion of that would be eliminated if HC insurance were under the federal umbrella
• Whereas wages increased by less than 4% in the last 10 years, private HC premiums increased by 88%.
• Private HC companies'CEO's compensation is approximately $200 MILLION per year

Now, it is difficult to eradicate the right wing entrenched opinion that anything that is socialized is automatically bad......The brainwashing has been so thorough, that no amount of data as to how other countries pay less than half in their socialized medicine offerings, and that people in these other countries actually live LONGER and are healthier.

BUT, if we were to stop and open our minds to the analysis that in our country, private health care insurance is outrageously ripping us off, and that an increase in taxes from our paycheck is the SAME as sending a check to some private insurance company, THEN the Sanders' rationale is much less open to mockery.

Bottom line is this......Who would "lose" under Medicare for ALL in this nation???.....Private HC companies. AND who would win under this same plan?,,,,,,,,,ALL OF US!!!!

How Much Money Do Insurance Companies Make? A Primer - The ...
18 Ridiculous Statistics About The Health Care Industry That Will ...
Private Health Insurance Premiums and Federal Policy ...

Yup I have plenty of time to think on my own using the single payer system in the US known as the Veterns Administration. Month long waits for appointments, forget about ER visits I've waited up to 6 hrs to see a physician's assistant.
The best service I've gotten in the VA was using the Choice Program I had to go through physical therapy for the second time for the same back problems, apparently the pt which didn't help the first time would this time. If I had went to the VA for this treatment I would have waited for 3 months with an 180 mile round trip twice weekly luckily with the choice program I got a local pt and had my first appointment within a week. Of course it didn't work and I have tried to get ahold of my primary for a follow up. months later and I'm at the fuck it stage and have given up.

 

[nat4900]

Actually, if an individual wanted to be insured by a federal government program on HC (a-la Medicare) as just ANOTHER insurer to send my monthly check to......a federal insurer who charged 3% overhead, rather than 25% overhead as most private insures do.......Why the FUCK NOT???

Are you right wing morons willing to completely trust bankers and do away with the FDIC???

 

[nat4900]

Yup I have plenty of time to think on my own using the single payer system in the US known as the Veterns Administration. Month long waits for appointments, forget about ER visits I've waited up to 6 hrs to see a physician's assistant.
The best service I've gotten in the VA was using the Choice Program I had to go through physical therapy for the second time for the same back problems, apparently the pt which didn't help the first time would this time. If I had went to the VA for this treatment I would have waited for 3 months with an 180 mile round trip twice weekly luckily with the choice program I got a local pt and had my first appointment within a week. Of course it didn't work and I have tried to get ahold of my primary for a follow up. months later and I'm at the fuck it stage and have given up.

So, who the hell is stopping you from getting PRIVATE HC insurance from Universal Health care or Blue Cross-Blue Shield.....?????

IF its the money, then join the 25 million fellow Americans who share your plight.

 

[ThunderKiss1965]

Yup I have plenty of time to think on my own using the single payer system in the US known as the Veterns Administration. Month long waits for appointments, forget about ER visits I've waited up to 6 hrs to see a physician's assistant.
The best service I've gotten in the VA was using the Choice Program I had to go through physical therapy for the second time for the same back problems, apparently the pt which didn't help the first time would this time. If I had went to the VA for this treatment I would have waited for 3 months with an 180 mile round trip twice weekly luckily with the choice program I got a local pt and had my first appointment within a week. Of course it didn't work and I have tried to get ahold of my primary for a follow up. months later and I'm at the fuck it stage and have given up.

So, who the hell is stopping you from getting PRIVATE HC insurance from Universal Health care or Blue Cross-Blue Shield.....?????

IF its the money, then join the 25 million fellow Americans who share your plight.

Its a service connected issue jackass.