Stop ridiculing Single Payer HC insurance...and think on your own

[Kondor3]

The healthcare systems in the European countries are all running out of money....and that is even when we are paying for their entire national militaries.......if they actually had to pay for their own national defense, their welfare states would collapse....

yet another R-W morons chimes in with what hannity told them,,,,,,See post #136

As opposed to what Mad Cow tells ya'll?

 

[nat4900]

opefully during that process you managed to figure out how Medicare actually works. And you would know Medicare for all would be EXTREMELY expensive.

Well, you're "right".....We MUST subsidize HC companies CEO's Lear jets and we MUST help hospitals build lobbies with Italian marble and fountains, and we MUST give quite a few dollars to drug companies so they can even further flood the TV markets with their ads....as "legal" drug pushers.

 

[2aguy]

Once again your ill informed self is glaringly obvious.
As it has been said 12,000,000 times - European countries, with few exceptions, expend less than 5% of their treasury for military expenses. Because they rely on American military might to protect them. Their entire economic spending depends on that fact.
Which is why many of us have been saying for yeeeaaaarrrss....these countries either need to pony up and provide for their own security or pay America a tax for providing that security.

What the fuck does the above have to do with those countries (and ours) HC private insurers.

Virtually every country I visited in Europe wants their land back currently used for US military bases.

It is OUR military complex that offers "security" to those countries whether they want it or not.

Use your half brain.

No...the welfare sponges in those countries want the land back...because they don't think past their next welfare check. If the U.S. left? Then those welfare recipients would actually have to enlist in their armies, in order to keep the Russian Bear from taking everything they have....

 

[nat4900]

in order to keep the Russian Bear from taking everything they have..

They're not worried about that.....since Trump and Putin share underwear.

 

[2aguy]

The healthcare systems in the European countries are all running out of money....and that is even when we are paying for their entire national militaries.......if they actually had to pay for their own national defense, their welfare states would collapse....

yet another R-W morons chimes in with what hannity told them,,,,,,See post #136

No...I don't watch Hannity, though he is a really decent guy....I just read about the collapse of the socialized medical systems around the world and wonder at how stupid you and the other single payer cultists are....

Sweden...
Crisis situation at Swedish hospitals | eurotopics.net



Expressen is dismayed by the conditions in a country that calls itself a welfare state:
“Not even children are spared in this crisis. At Stockholm's new Karolinska Hospital a third of the beds are empty and one in ten of the operations on children has been cancelled this year. ... The acute problem is the shortage of nurses. It is forcing hospitals to leave beds unused. ... Never before has so much money been allocated to the healthcare system, but it is being misused. The Social Democrats in Stockholm want people to come to the polyclinics for regular health checks.
In other words completely healthy people use up resources that can barely cover the needs of the sick.
The chronic crisis is undermining trust in the politicians. The question is whether Sweden can continue calling itself a social welfare state when children are dying unnecessarily.”
--------
In Aftonbladet's view the situation is above all the result of poor decisions at the political level:

“Sweden has the fewest hospital beds per capita in Europe. So it's no wonder voters always put healthcare at the top of the list when asked what topics they see as most important. ... It's the politicians who have pushed health into the shadows. There was a time when the minister for social affairs was just as important as the finance minister. ... Then along came [the conservative government] and gave the smallest party [the Christian Democrats] the responsibility for healthcare. And this trend has continued under the Social Democrats. ... Sweden's public healthcare needs a crisis committee and a minister who can overhaul the entire system.”
=========
Britain....

NHS problems worst 'since 1990s'


Services in the NHS in England are deteriorating in a way not seen since the early 1990s, according to a leading health think tank.

The King's Fund review said waiting times for A&E, cancer care and routine operations had all started getting worse, while deficits were growing.

It said such drops in performance had not been seen for 20 years.

But the think tank acknowledged the NHS had done as well as could be expected, given the financial climate.

Professor John Appleby, chief economist at the King's Fund, which specialises in health care policy, said: "The next government will inherit a health service that has run out of money and is operating at the very edge of its limits.

================



Iceland...


Iceland's Universal Healthcare (Still) On Thin Ice - The Reykjavik Grapevine

One year ago, Iceland’s lauded universal healthcare system seemed to be teetering off the edge. Doctors’ wages had stagnated after the economic crash, and following a bout of failed negotiations, they went on strike for the first time ever. While they coordinated their actions to avoid endangering patients’ lives, the doctors’ message was clear: if demands were not met, they would seek employment elsewhere.

Coupled with years of tough austerity measures, faltering morale, and an infrastructure in dire disrepair, there was not much slack to give. In an in-depth analysis, we at the Grapevine tried to figure out what, exactly, was going on, and where we were headed.
=========

New Zealand...


WHO | New Zealand cuts health spending to control costs
New Zealand cuts health spending to control costs
New Zealand’s health-care system is undergoing a series of cutbacks to reduce costs, but critics are concerned that the health of people on low incomes and in some population groups may suffer. Rebecca Lancashire reports in our series on health financing.
When Robyn Pope was diagnosed with breast cancer in 2008 she was told that she would have to wait two months for a mastectomy if she wanted breast reconstruction as part of her treatment in the public health system. “Two months may not seem like a long time,” says Pope, a mother of three, who lives on the Kapiti Coast of New Zealand, “but a day lived knowing that you have cancer in your body is like an eternity”.

The underlying reason for the delay was a familiar one – funding. Like other countries offering universal health care, New Zealand struggles to meet the steadily growing demand for a full range of high-quality health services offered largely for free to everyone, while remaining cost efficient. In the past eight years, New Zealand’s total health expenditure has doubled to 3.6 billion New Zealand dollars (NZ$) (US$ 10 billion). In the face of economic slow down, the government is calling for reform to rein in this expenditure.

===========


Sweden


'Sweden's healthcare is an embarrassment'



Swedish was once a health care model for the world. But that is hardly the case anymore.

This is not primarily due to the fact Sweden has become worse - rather it is the case that other countries have improved faster.

That Sweden no longer keeps up with those countries is largely due to its inability to reduce its patient waiting times, which are some of the worst in Europe, as the latest edition of the Euro Health Consumer Index (EHCI) revealed in Brussels on Monday.

The 2014 EHCI also confirms other big problems within Swedish healthcare.
===============

France....

France's Health-Care System Is Going Broke

Yet France’s looming recession and a steady increase in chronic diseases including diabetes threaten to change that, says Willy Hodin, who heads Groupe PHR, an umbrella organization for 2,200 French pharmacies. The health system exceeds its budget by billions of euros each year, and in the face of rising costs, taxpayer-funded benefits such as spa treatments, which the French have long justified as preventive care, now look more like expendable luxuries.
“Reform is needed fast,” Hodin says. “The most optimistic believe this system can survive another five to six years. The less optimistic don’t think it will last more than three.”
===========

Finland...

Why is Finland’s healthcare system failing my family? | Ed Dutton

Finland’s health service has been in a parlous state for decades and it is getting worse.
According to an OECD report published in 2013, the Finnish health system is chronically underfunded. The Nordic nation of five million people spent only 7% of GDP on its public health system in 2012, compared with 8% in the UK. In 2012, the report found, 80% of the Finnish population had to wait more than two weeks to see a GP. Finland’s high taxes go on education and daycare.
Finland has more doctors per capita than the UK but, at the level of primary care, a far higher proportion of these are private than is the case in Britain. And the Finnish equivalent of the NHS is far from free at the point of use.
A GP appointment costs €16.10 (£12.52), though you pay for only the first three visits in a given year. A hospital consultation costs about €38, and you pay for each night that you spend in hospital, up to a maximum of €679. And once you get to the chemist, there is no flat fee; no belief that you shouldn’t be financially penalised for the nature of the medicine you require.
The service is not national, but municipal, meaning that poorer areas of the country tend to have a bad health service and limited access even to private GPs, who set up practices in more affluent areas.

---------

Canada....

If Universal Health Care Is The Goal, Don't Copy Canada

Amongst industrialized countries -- members of the OECD -- with universal health care, Canada has the second most expensive health care system as a share of the economy after adjusting for age. This is not necessarily a problem, however, depending on the value received for such spending. As countries become richer, citizens may choose to allocate a larger portion of their income to health care. However, such expenditures are a problem when they are not matched by value.
The most visible manifestation of Canada’s failing health care system are wait times for health care services. In 2013, Canadians, on average, faced a four and a half month wait for medically necessary treatment after referral by a general practitioner. This wait time is almost twice as long as it was in 1993 when national wait times were first measured.
--------

Long wait times in Canada have also been observed for basic diagnostic imaging technologies that Americans take for granted, which are crucial for determining the severity of a patient’s condition. In 2013, the average wait time for an MRI was over two months, while Canadians needing a CT scan waited for almost a month.

These wait times are not simply “minor inconveniences.” Patients experience physical pain and suffering, mental anguish, and lost economic productivity while waiting for treatment. One recent estimate (2013) found that the value of time lost due to medical wait times in Canada amounted to approximately $1,200 per patient.

There is also considerable evidence indicating that excessive wait times lead to poorer health outcomes and in some cases, death. Dr. Brian Day, former head of the Canadian Medical Association recently noted that “[d]elayed care often transforms an acute and potentially reversible illness or injury into a chronic, irreversible condition that involves permanent disability.”

And more on Canada...


The Ugly Truth About Canadian Health Care

Mountain-bike enthusiast Suzanne Aucoin had to fight more than her Stage IV colon cancer. Her doctor suggested Erbitux—a proven cancer drug that targets cancer cells exclusively, unlike conventional chemotherapies that more crudely kill all fast-growing cells in the body—and Aucoin went to a clinic to begin treatment. But if Erbitux offered hope, Aucoin’s insurance didn’t: she received one inscrutable form letter after another, rejecting her claim for reimbursement. Yet another example of the callous hand of managed care, depriving someone of needed medical help, right? Guess again. Erbitux is standard treatment, covered by insurance companies—in the United States. Aucoin lives in Ontario, Canada.

When Aucoin appealed to an official ombudsman, the Ontario government claimed that her treatment was unproven and that she had gone to an unaccredited clinic. But the FDA in the U.S. had approved Erbitux, and her clinic was a cancer center affiliated with a prominent Catholic hospital in Buffalo. This January, the ombudsman ruled in Aucoin’s favor, awarding her the cost of treatment. She represents a dramatic new trend in Canadian health-care advocacy: finding the treatment you need in another country, and then fighting Canadian bureaucrats (and often suing) to get them to pick up the tab.

And the truth.......that Canadians don't see until it is too late.....

My health-care prejudices crumbled not in the classroom but on the way to one. On a subzero Winnipeg morning in 1997, I cut across the hospital emergency room to shave a few minutes off my frigid commute. Swinging open the door, I stepped into a nightmare: the ER overflowed with elderly people on stretchers, waiting for admission. Some, it turned out, had waited five days. The air stank with sweat and urine. Right then, I began to reconsider everything that I thought I knew about Canadian health care. I soon discovered that the problems went well beyond overcrowded ERs. Patients had to wait for practically any diagnostic test or procedure, such as the man with persistent pain from a hernia operation whom we referred to a pain clinic—with a three-year wait list; or the woman needing a sleep study to diagnose what seemed like sleep apnea, who faced a two-year delay; or the woman with breast cancer who needed to wait four months for radiation therapy, when the standard of care was four weeks.
Norway.....
Government Health Care Horror Stories from Norway

I'll admit this: if, like me, you're a self-employed person with a marginal income, the Norwegian system is, in many ways, a boon – as long as you're careful not to get anything much more serious than a cold or flu.

Doctors' visits are cheap; hospitalization is free. But you get what you pay for. There are excellent doctors in Norway – but there are also mediocrities and outright incompetents who in the U.S. would have been stripped of their licenses long ago. The fact is that while the ubiquity of frivolous malpractice lawsuits in the U.S. has been a disgrace, the inability of Norwegians to sue doctors or hospitals even in the most egregious of circumstances is even more of a disgrace.

Physicians who in the U.S. would be dragged into court are, under the Norwegian system, reported to a local board consisting of their own colleagues – who are also, not infrequently, their longtime friends.

(The government health system's own website puts it this way: if you suspect malpractice, you have the right to “ask the Norwegian Board of Health Supervision in your county to evaluate” your claims.)

As a result, doctors who should be forcibly retired, if not incarcerated, end up with a slap on the wrist. When patients are awarded financial damages, the sums – paid by the state, not the doctor – are insultingly small.
------------

Take the case of Peter Franks, whose doctor sent him home twice despite a tennis-ball-sized lump in his chest that was oozing blood and pus – and that turned out to be a cancer that was diagnosed too late to save his life. Apropos of Franks's case, a jurist who specializes in patients' rights lamented that the Norwegian health-care system responds to sky-high malpractice figures “with a shrug,” and the dying Franks himself pronounced last year that “the responsibility for malpractice has been pulverized in Norway,” saying that “if I could have sued the doctor, I would have. Other doctors would have read about the lawsuit in the newspaper. Then they would have taken greater care to avoid making such a mistake themselves. But doctors in Norway don't have to take responsibility for their mistakes. The state does it.” After a three-year legal struggle, Franks was awarded 2.7 million kroner by the Norwegian government – about half a million dollars.

Another aspect of Norway's guild-like health-care system is that although the country suffers from a severe deficit of doctors, nurses, and midwives, the medical establishment makes it next to impossible for highly qualified foreign members of these professions to get certified to practice in Norway. The daughter of a friend of mine got a nursing degree at the University of North Dakota in 2009 but, as reported last Friday by NRK, is working in Seattle because the Norwegian authorities in charge of these matters – who have refused to be interviewed on this subject by NRK – have stubbornly denied her a license. Why? My guess is that the answer has a lot to do with three things: competence, competition, and control. If there were a surplus of doctors and nurses instead of a shortage, the good ones would drive out the bad. Plainly, such a situation must be avoided at all costs – including the cost of human lives.

Then there's the waiting lists. At the beginning of 2012, over 281,000 patients in Norway, out of a population of five million, were awaiting treatment for some medical problem or other. Bureaucratic absurdities run rampant, as exemplified by thisAftenposten story from earlier this year:

Japan....

Medical services in Tokyo area in danger of collapsing | The Japan Times

Medical services in the Tokyo metropolitan area are facing a serious danger of collapse as hospitals affiliated with private medical universities and private universities’ medical schools, the key players in the region’s medical services, are finding it increasingly difficult to make ends meet.

These institutions, long beset by higher labor costs than in other parts of the country, have been hit hard by the increase in the consumption tax from 5 percent to 8 percent in April last year. While they now have to pay higher taxes when purchasing pharmaceuticals and medical equipment, they cannot pass that incremental cost on to patients or health insurance associations. This is because medical services are exempt from the consumption tax, so patients and health insurance associations are not required to pay it.



Not all smiles



Like other service industries in Japan, there are cumbersome rules, too many small players and few incentives to improve. Doctors are too few—one-third less than the rich-world average, relative to the population—because of state quotas. Shortages of doctors are severe in rural areas and in certain specialities, such as surgery, paediatrics and obstetrics. The latter two shortages are blamed on the country's low birth rate, but practitioners say that they really arise because income is partly determined by numbers of tests and drugs prescribed, and there are fewer of these for children and pregnant women. Doctors are worked to the bone for relatively low pay (around $125,000 a year at mid-career). One doctor in his 30s says he works more than 100 hours a week. “How can I find time to do research? Write an article? Check back on patients?” he asks.


----On the positive side, patients can nearly always see a doctor within a day. But they must often wait hours for a three-minute consultation. Complicated cases get too little attention. The Japanese are only a quarter as likely as the Americans or French to suffer a heart attack, but twice as likely to die if they do.

Some doctors see as many as 100 patients a day. Because their salaries are low, they tend to overprescribe tests and drugs. (Clinics often own their own pharmacies.) They also earn money, hotel-like, by keeping patients in bed. Simple surgery that in the West would involve no overnight stay, such as a hernia operation, entails a five-day hospital stay in Japan.

Emergency care is often poor. In lesser cities it is not uncommon for ambulances to cruise the streets calling a succession of emergency rooms to find one that can cram in a patient. In a few cases people have died because of this. One reason for a shortage of emergency care is an abundance of small clinics instead of big hospitals. Doctors prefer them because they can work less and earn more.



=======

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/national/health-care-funding-crisis-looms-as-australias-greatest-challenge/news-story/c30ec2f120fed9ddaa7a9d84b7939d53


The states are facing a $57 billion health funding hole in the coming decade.

That means longer waiting lists for elective surgery and longer waiting times for hospital emergency care.

Queensland has estimated its $11.8 billion spending cut was equivalent to cutting 818 doctors, 2,895 nurses; and 824 health practitioners.

Victoria estimated it would lose funding for 2.9 million elective surgeries or nearly 32 million dialysis sessions.

In NSW it was estimated by 2050, the Commonwealth’s contribution to the NSW budget will have halved from 26 per cent to 13 per cent, representing a loss of $16 billion a year.

 

[Markle]

I'll give some facts about why single payer is cheaper at least in my country.

Total all your income taxes plus your VAT. Then come talk.

Sure why not

This means that my taxes plus what I pay out of pocket makes me pay about 50 percent of you.

In what country do you live?

 

[forkup]

I'll give some facts about why single payer is cheaper at least in my country.

Total all your income taxes plus your VAT. Then come talk.

Sure why not

This means that my taxes plus what I pay out of pocket makes me pay about 50 percent of you.

In what country do you live?

Belgium

 

[2aguy]

People I've met from other countries shake their heads and say "only in America" when our health care system is brought up. This includes Canadians. One reason our health
care is so high here is because of corporate profits of the private insurance companies.

Yes, our health care for profit system gives us the best health care in the world in the most timely fashion.

Please name for us any nation, or three nations, who have developed more life-extending or life-saving drugs than the United States. Do the same for new medical technology and new medical procedures.

Why do you prefer a system such as Canada's where their waiting lists for medical services are, in the majority of cases months and even over a year. Hospitals across our Northern border are filled with Canadian patients. Did you know that women with difficult pregnancies in Canada are flown or transported to the United States for care because Canada does not have the facilities available? Why do you want that for this country?

best health care in the world in the most timely fashion.

Well. At the end of July I got diagnosed with carpal tunnel syndrome, Had my surgery last week wednesday. I went in at 7.00 am had my surgery at 8.00am was out of the hospital at 12.30pm. My wife a few years back had a compound fracture in her ankle. She had surgery about 2 hours after she walked in the hospital and was out that same evening. So tell me markle what the turnaround time is for Americans in those circumstances?

In what country do you live?

Belgium

Just wait till you get old....oh, you won't......get old...

Belgian Doctors Are Euthanizing Patients Without Their Consent

A study published this month in the Journal of Medical Ethics examined the “deliberate” euthanasia of patients in Belgium without their explicit, voluntary consent as required by law.

The study’s author, Raphael Cohen-Almagor, a professor of philosophy and ethics at the United Kingdom's Hull University, found that life-ending drugs were used “with the intention to shorten life and without explicit request” in 1.7 percent of all deaths in Belgium in 2013.

In 52.7 percent of these cases, the patients were 80 years of age or older. The decision to euthanize was not discussed with the patient in 77.9 percent of the cases because he/she was comatose, had dementia, or “because discussion would have been harmful to the patient’s best interest,” according to the study.

 

[Markle]

Well, you're "right".....We MUST subsidize HC companies CEO's Lear jets and we MUST help hospitals build lobbies with Italian marble and fountains, and we MUST give quite a few dollars to drug companies so they can even further flood the TV markets with their ads....as "legal" drug pushers.

What percentage of hospitals in the United States are non-profit?

 

[forkup]

People I've met from other countries shake their heads and say "only in America" when our health care system is brought up. This includes Canadians. One reason our health
care is so high here is because of corporate profits of the private insurance companies.

Yes, our health care for profit system gives us the best health care in the world in the most timely fashion.

Please name for us any nation, or three nations, who have developed more life-extending or life-saving drugs than the United States. Do the same for new medical technology and new medical procedures.

Why do you prefer a system such as Canada's where their waiting lists for medical services are, in the majority of cases months and even over a year. Hospitals across our Northern border are filled with Canadian patients. Did you know that women with difficult pregnancies in Canada are flown or transported to the United States for care because Canada does not have the facilities available? Why do you want that for this country?

best health care in the world in the most timely fashion.

Well. At the end of July I got diagnosed with carpal tunnel syndrome, Had my surgery last week wednesday. I went in at 7.00 am had my surgery at 8.00am was out of the hospital at 12.30pm. My wife a few years back had a compound fracture in her ankle. She had surgery about 2 hours after she walked in the hospital and was out that same evening. So tell me markle what the turnaround time is for Americans in those circumstances?

In what country do you live?

Belgium

Just wait till you get old....oh, you won't......get old...

Belgian Doctors Are Euthanizing Patients Without Their Consent

A study published this month in the Journal of Medical Ethics examined the “deliberate” euthanasia of patients in Belgium without their explicit, voluntary consent as required by law.

The study’s author, Raphael Cohen-Almagor, a professor of philosophy and ethics at the United Kingdom's Hull University, found that life-ending drugs were used “with the intention to shorten life and without explicit request” in 1.7 percent of all deaths in Belgium in 2013.

In 52.7 percent of these cases, the patients were 80 years of age or older. The decision to euthanize was not discussed with the patient in 77.9 percent of the cases because he/she was comatose, had dementia, or “because discussion would have been harmful to the patient’s best interest,” according to the study.

Well at the moment I stand to survive you by a bit less than 2 years.List of countries by life expectancy - Wikipedia

 

[Markle]

I'll give some facts about why single payer is cheaper at least in my country.

Total all your income taxes plus your VAT. Then come talk.

Sure why not

This means that my taxes plus what I pay out of pocket makes me pay about 50 percent of you.

In what country do you live?

Belgium

I gave you all the information on their taxes before. Are you a slow learner or living in denial?

 

[nat4900]

Can't bother to read all of your crap 2BeainCells......But from the first article

Then along came [the conservative government] and gave the smallest party [the Christian Democrats] the responsibility for healthcare. And this trend has continued under the Social Democrats. ... Sweden's public healthcare needs a crisis committee and a minister who can overhaul the entire system.”

 

[forkup]

I'll give some facts about why single payer is cheaper at least in my country.

Total all your income taxes plus your VAT. Then come talk.

Sure why not

This means that my taxes plus what I pay out of pocket makes me pay about 50 percent of you.

In what country do you live?

Belgium

I gave you all the information on their taxes before. Are you a slow learner or living in denial?

And what has that got to do with that graph that includes my tax rate in the calculation of health care expenditure. And I'm STILL 50 percent cheaper??? I didn't know that taxes spent on non healthcare related services are relevant in a health care debate.

 

[nat4900]

The U.S. is basically "stealing" all the good foreign doctors because.....well, because, this is the country where doctors can become rich.

 

[RodISHI]

The U.S. is basically "stealing" all the good foreign doctors because.....well, because, this is the country where doctors can become rich.

shit the US has more fake foreign doctors with fake id's and fake degrees than you can shake a stick at for the moment.

 

[Leo123]

I have seen several threads on here mocking Bernie Sanders' attempt (and now he actually has a bill in the Senate) to push for Medicare for All insurance.

The mocking that goes on is two-fold.....First, the blanket (and ignorant) conclusion that anything that smacks of socialism is automatically "bad"...............and Second, that the government CANNOT afford to insure everyone with the somewhat ill-informed mantra of "where would the money come from?"

Addressing the latter, the answer is surprisingly quite simple: The money would come from DIVERTING what we all are paying private health care insurance companies and that same (or lesser) amount would be paid to our country's treasury....Bear in mind the following facts:

• Currently, the average household expenditure on HC is over $10,000
• 55 million of our population is ALREADY on government Medicare
• Our government currently expends $60 plus BILLIONS on Medicaid
• 60% of ALL bankruptcies are due to HC
• The current cost of liability insurance for medical care is over $60 Billion per year....and a good portion of that would be eliminated if HC insurance were under the federal umbrella
• Whereas wages increased by less than 4% in the last 10 years, private HC premiums increased by 88%.
• Private HC companies'CEO's compensation is approximately $200 MILLION per year

Now, it is difficult to eradicate the right wing entrenched opinion that anything that is socialized is automatically bad......The brainwashing has been so thorough, that no amount of data as to how other countries pay less than half in their socialized medicine offerings, and that people in these other countries actually live LONGER and are healthier.

BUT, if we were to stop and open our minds to the analysis that in our country, private health care insurance is outrageously ripping us off, and that an increase in taxes from our paycheck is the SAME as sending a check to some private insurance company, THEN the Sanders' rationale is much less open to mockery.

Bottom line is this......Who would "lose" under Medicare for ALL in this nation???.....Private HC companies. AND who would win under this same plan?,,,,,,,,,ALL OF US!!!!

How Much Money Do Insurance Companies Make? A Primer - The ...
18 Ridiculous Statistics About The Health Care Industry That Will ...
Private Health Insurance Premiums and Federal Policy ...

Everyone would lose....Right now Medicare and Medicaid are going broke and that's only trying to service a fraction of the U.S. population. Right now there are doctors setting up concierge practices where one can get standard medical care for $50 to $100 a month which covers typical things...broken bones, stitches, flu, colds, and other non life threatening health issues. That being said, I think there is an argument to be made for single payer catastrophic health care under the umbrella of Medicaid and Medicare. That might be doable.

 

[Rustic]

People I've met from other countries shake their heads and say "only in America" when our health care system is brought up. This includes Canadians. One reason our health
care is so high here is because of corporate profits of the private insurance companies.

Yes, our health care for profit system gives us the best health care in the world in the most timely fashion.

Please name for us any nation, or three nations, who have developed more life-extending or life-saving drugs than the United States. Do the same for new medical technology and new medical procedures.

Why do you prefer a system such as Canada's where their waiting lists for medical services are, in the majority of cases months and even over a year. Hospitals across our Northern border are filled with Canadian patients. Did you know that women with difficult pregnancies in Canada are flown or transported to the United States for care because Canada does not have the facilities available? Why do you want that for this country?

best health care in the world in the most timely fashion.

Well. At the end of July I got diagnosed with carpal tunnel syndrome, Had my surgery last week wednesday. I went in at 7.00 am had my surgery at 8.00am was out of the hospital at 12.30pm. My wife a few years back had a compound fracture in her ankle. She had surgery about 2 hours after she walked in the hospital and was out that same evening. So tell me markle what the turnaround time is for Americans in those circumstances?

Keep your single payer to yourselves, leave the rest of us out of the shit... our participation is not needed

 

[Rustic]

Explain why it's oppressive to provide healthcare for each and every one of it's citizens? And if it's so inefficient why are all single payer healthcare countries considerably cheaper?

I already pointed out that socialized medicine is better than what we have now, so it's rather stupid of you to challenge me by asking why countries with socialized medicine are cheaper than what we have now.

You're a stupid, ignorant person, if you need someone to explain why socialism is oppressive and inefficient.

In socialism, no one wants to work because everything is free. And, because everything is free, everyone wants an infinite amount of everything. So, the government has to force people to work. And, the government has to dictate how much of something you can have. That's oppression.

In socialism, no one wants to work, so when they're forced to work, they don't try very hard. Everyone wants an infinite amount of everything, so when the government dictates how much you can have, it does so according to its own interests, not your needs, if which it may know nothing about. That's inefficient.

Socialism = slavery and shortages.

What you seem to be describing is Communism not Socialism.Communism vs Socialism - Difference and Comparison | Diffen

Communism is evolved socialism, keep that shit to yourself we want nothing of it

 

[forkup]

Explain why it's oppressive to provide healthcare for each and every one of it's citizens? And if it's so inefficient why are all single payer healthcare countries considerably cheaper?

I already pointed out that socialized medicine is better than what we have now, so it's rather stupid of you to challenge me by asking why countries with socialized medicine are cheaper than what we have now.

You're a stupid, ignorant person, if you need someone to explain why socialism is oppressive and inefficient.

In socialism, no one wants to work because everything is free. And, because everything is free, everyone wants an infinite amount of everything. So, the government has to force people to work. And, the government has to dictate how much of something you can have. That's oppression.

In socialism, no one wants to work, so when they're forced to work, they don't try very hard. Everyone wants an infinite amount of everything, so when the government dictates how much you can have, it does so according to its own interests, not your needs, if which it may know nothing about. That's inefficient.

Socialism = slavery and shortages.

What you seem to be describing is Communism not Socialism.Communism vs Socialism - Difference and Comparison | Diffen

Communism is evolved socialism, keep that shit to yourself we want nothing of it

I didn't know that giving an opinion was out of bounds on a discussion forum. Thanks for clearing that up Rustic.

 

[Missouri_Mike]

I have seen several threads on here mocking Bernie Sanders' attempt (and now he actually has a bill in the Senate) to push for Medicare for All insurance.

The mocking that goes on is two-fold.....First, the blanket (and ignorant) conclusion that anything that smacks of socialism is automatically "bad"...............and Second, that the government CANNOT afford to insure everyone with the somewhat ill-informed mantra of "where would the money come from?"

Addressing the latter, the answer is surprisingly quite simple: The money would come from DIVERTING what we all are paying private health care insurance companies and that same (or lesser) amount would be paid to our country's treasury....Bear in mind the following facts:

• Currently, the average household expenditure on HC is over $10,000
• 55 million of our population is ALREADY on government Medicare
• Our government currently expends $60 plus BILLIONS on Medicaid
• 60% of ALL bankruptcies are due to HC
• The current cost of liability insurance for medical care is over $60 Billion per year....and a good portion of that would be eliminated if HC insurance were under the federal umbrella
• Whereas wages increased by less than 4% in the last 10 years, private HC premiums increased by 88%.
• Private HC companies'CEO's compensation is approximately $200 MILLION per year

Now, it is difficult to eradicate the right wing entrenched opinion that anything that is socialized is automatically bad......The brainwashing has been so thorough, that no amount of data as to how other countries pay less than half in their socialized medicine offerings, and that people in these other countries actually live LONGER and are healthier.

BUT, if we were to stop and open our minds to the analysis that in our country, private health care insurance is outrageously ripping us off, and that an increase in taxes from our paycheck is the SAME as sending a check to some private insurance company, THEN the Sanders' rationale is much less open to mockery.

Bottom line is this......Who would "lose" under Medicare for ALL in this nation???.....Private HC companies. AND who would win under this same plan?,,,,,,,,,ALL OF US!!!!

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Stop ridiculing Single Payer HC insurance...and think on your own

Let's all think on our own while we turn all of our thinking over to the government. Because if you're thinking on your own for you you're pretty much not thinking like the herd.