Stop ridiculing Single Payer HC insurance...and think on your own

[nat4900]

There you go again advocating for Gov control of EVERYTHING.

Another right wing idiot chimes in.......Cheaper health care insurance constitutes "everything" in your fucked up world????

 

[Doc1]

There you go again advocating for Gov control of EVERYTHING.

Another right wing idiot chimes in.......Cheaper health care insurance constitutes "everything" in your fucked up world????

Dumbass learn to think. Oh wait, you can't. You cannot control HC prices without controlling EVERYTHING upstream from the providers you dumbass.

 

[Avatar4321]

How is it non sequitur?

ACA forces employers to subsidize health care. You're arguing we should make it so employers don't have to do so. Eliminating ACA would accomplish what you claim to want.

So, fuckhead....BEFORE ACA employers did NOT subsidize HC insurance for their employees???

Who turns on your "puter for you...certainly you're not smart enough to do it yourself.

How is it non sequitur?

ACA forces employers to subsidize health care. You're arguing we should make it so employers don't have to do so. Eliminating ACA would accomplish what you claim to want.

So, fuckhead....BEFORE ACA employers did NOT subsidize HC insurance for their employees???

Who turns on your "puter for you...certainly you're not smart enough to do it yourself.

Before ACA no employer was forced to subsidize any health care. Some chose to give their employees that benefit in compensation for their labor.

I know this idea of free will is difficult for you for some reason.

 

[nat4900]

My "conclusions" are repeating back the stupid things you say.

True or false:

1) you started the thread advocating for government run health care.

2) I just quoted you requesting we stop providing healthcare for government employees.

Which is wrong, oh great pig wrestler?

Moron....follow the fucking thread instead of picking and choosing.....I was responding to some other idiot who demanded that HC insurance should be paid ONLY by each individual....no subsidies....and I responded with, "TRY THAT with government employees or elected officials" and see how far THAT goes.

Go find some other thread to fuck up.

 

[Avatar4321]

My "conclusions" are repeating back the stupid things you say.

True or false:

1) you started the thread advocating for government run health care.

2) I just quoted you requesting we stop providing healthcare for government employees.

Which is wrong, oh great pig wrestler?

Moron....follow the fucking thread instead of picking and choosing.....I was responding to some other idiot who demanded that HC insurance should be paid ONLY by each individual....no subsidies....and I responded with, "TRY THAT with government employees or elected officials" and see how far THAT goes.

Go find some other thread to fuck up.

I am following the thread. Which is why I know what you said even when you don't.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

My "conclusions" are repeating back the stupid things you say.

True or false:

1) you started the thread advocating for government run health care.

2) I just quoted you requesting we stop providing healthcare for government employees.

Which is wrong, oh great pig wrestler?

Moron....follow the fucking thread instead of picking and choosing.....I was responding to some other idiot who demanded that HC insurance should be paid ONLY by each individual....no subsidies....and I responded with, "TRY THAT with government employees or elected officials" and see how far THAT goes.

Go find some other thread to fuck up.

I am following the thread. Which is why I know what you said even when you don't.

That one is a nasty one. Unabashed miserableness.

 

[impuretrash]

I have seen several threads on here mocking Bernie Sanders' attempt (and now he actually has a bill in the Senate) to push for Medicare for All insurance.

The mocking that goes on is two-fold.....First, the blanket (and ignorant) conclusion that anything that smacks of socialism is automatically "bad"...............and Second, that the government CANNOT afford to insure everyone with the somewhat ill-informed mantra of "where would the money come from?"

Addressing the latter, the answer is surprisingly quite simple: The money would come from DIVERTING what we all are paying private health care insurance companies and that same (or lesser) amount would be paid to our country's treasury....Bear in mind the following facts:

• Currently, the average household expenditure on HC is over $10,000
• 55 million of our population is ALREADY on government Medicare
• Our government currently expends $60 plus BILLIONS on Medicaid
• 60% of ALL bankruptcies are due to HC
• The current cost of liability insurance for medical care is over $60 Billion per year....and a good portion of that would be eliminated if HC insurance were under the federal umbrella
• Whereas wages increased by less than 4% in the last 10 years, private HC premiums increased by 88%.
• Private HC companies'CEO's compensation is approximately $200 MILLION per year

Now, it is difficult to eradicate the right wing entrenched opinion that anything that is socialized is automatically bad......The brainwashing has been so thorough, that no amount of data as to how other countries pay less than half in their socialized medicine offerings, and that people in these other countries actually live LONGER and are healthier.

BUT, if we were to stop and open our minds to the analysis that in our country, private health care insurance is outrageously ripping us off, and that an increase in taxes from our paycheck is the SAME as sending a check to some private insurance company, THEN the Sanders' rationale is much less open to mockery.

Bottom line is this......Who would "lose" under Medicare for ALL in this nation???.....Private HC companies. AND who would win under this same plan?,,,,,,,,,ALL OF US!!!!

How Much Money Do Insurance Companies Make? A Primer - The ...
18 Ridiculous Statistics About The Health Care Industry That Will ...
Private Health Insurance Premiums and Federal Policy ...

Why go on theory, just ask a Canadian about single payer systems and the greater system of centralized control that you submit to the state for this "privilege" which the state bestows on you (if it wishes, and of course, takes it away when you are dying in the hallway of a hospital).

Or maybe other members of dirt poor socialist systems (which by the way, Canada might be if not beside the greatest capitalist nation in history, and of course, our state run exploitation of the U.S) could provide their experiences on this forum.

When you start going to "single payer this", "universal that", "banning of this and that language"...you are headed towards socialism.

Clinton and her global agenda failed for a reason, do not allow Bernie to hoodwink the capitalist system based on individual liberty, ambition and contribution. Get smart, get creative, but tell this socialist that his ideals are better served in Russia, China, Cuba or some other hellhole. Leave America to remain a free and individual driven Republic! The only nation left for those seeking liberty as your Forefathers outlines.

People I've met from other countries shake their heads and say "only in America" when our health care system is brought up. This includes Canadians. One reason our health
care is so high here is because of corporate profits of the private insurance companies.

 

[Mac1958]

The Democrats are smart enough not to do this. They'll bring it up now and then to keep their crazies happy.

However, it's possible that we'd end up with what I'd like to see, which an ACTUAL Medicare For All system, allowing for dynamic free market competition and innovation.

I suspect most of the Single Payer zealots wouldn't be able to tell the difference, but...
.

 

[Avatar4321]

My "conclusions" are repeating back the stupid things you say.

True or false:

1) you started the thread advocating for government run health care.

2) I just quoted you requesting we stop providing healthcare for government employees.

Which is wrong, oh great pig wrestler?

Moron....follow the fucking thread instead of picking and choosing.....I was responding to some other idiot who demanded that HC insurance should be paid ONLY by each individual....no subsidies....and I responded with, "TRY THAT with government employees or elected officials" and see how far THAT goes.

Go find some other thread to fuck up.

I am following the thread. Which is why I know what you said even when you don't.

That one is a nasty one. Unabashed miserableness.

Notice he didn't deny a single thing he said. No "I didn't say that." Or "No what I meant was..."

 

[Cellblock2429]

I have seen several threads on here mocking Bernie Sanders' attempt (and now he actually has a bill in the Senate) to push for Medicare for All insurance.

The mocking that goes on is two-fold.....First, the blanket (and ignorant) conclusion that anything that smacks of socialism is automatically "bad"...............and Second, that the government CANNOT afford to insure everyone with the somewhat ill-informed mantra of "where would the money come from?"

Addressing the latter, the answer is surprisingly quite simple: The money would come from DIVERTING what we all are paying private health care insurance companies and that same (or lesser) amount would be paid to our country's treasury....Bear in mind the following facts:

• Currently, the average household expenditure on HC is over $10,000
• 55 million of our population is ALREADY on government Medicare
• Our government currently expends $60 plus BILLIONS on Medicaid
• 60% of ALL bankruptcies are due to HC
• The current cost of liability insurance for medical care is over $60 Billion per year....and a good portion of that would be eliminated if HC insurance were under the federal umbrella
• Whereas wages increased by less than 4% in the last 10 years, private HC premiums increased by 88%.
• Private HC companies'CEO's compensation is approximately $200 MILLION per year

Now, it is difficult to eradicate the right wing entrenched opinion that anything that is socialized is automatically bad......The brainwashing has been so thorough, that no amount of data as to how other countries pay less than half in their socialized medicine offerings, and that people in these other countries actually live LONGER and are healthier.

BUT, if we were to stop and open our minds to the analysis that in our country, private health care insurance is outrageously ripping us off, and that an increase in taxes from our paycheck is the SAME as sending a check to some private insurance company, THEN the Sanders' rationale is much less open to mockery.

Bottom line is this......Who would "lose" under Medicare for ALL in this nation???.....Private HC companies. AND who would win under this same plan?,,,,,,,,,ALL OF US!!!!

How Much Money Do Insurance Companies Make? A Primer - The ...
18 Ridiculous Statistics About The Health Care Industry That Will ...
Private Health Insurance Premiums and Federal Policy ...

/----/ NAturally I question everything you post since you're a Libtard. Turns out the 60% bankruptcies due to HC is bogus:
At the fine print at the bottom of the meme was a citation: “Source: NerdWallet Health Analysis.” No link to the specific analysis referenced was provided, but presumably the item in question was a 19 July 2013 item published by NerdWallet pertaining to medical bankruptcies. However, in that analysis NerdWallet repeatedly stated that their findings were “estimates” or “extrapolations,” and some of their data were quite old even back in 2013.
643,000 Bankruptcies in the U.S. Every Year Due to Medical Bills

 

[Doc1]

My "conclusions" are repeating back the stupid things you say.

True or false:

1) you started the thread advocating for government run health care.

2) I just quoted you requesting we stop providing healthcare for government employees.

Which is wrong, oh great pig wrestler?

Moron....follow the fucking thread instead of picking and choosing.....I was responding to some other idiot who demanded that HC insurance should be paid ONLY by each individual....no subsidies....and I responded with, "TRY THAT with government employees or elected officials" and see how far THAT goes.

Go find some other thread to fuck up.

Dumbass learn to think. Oh wait, you can't. You cannot control HC prices without controlling EVERYTHING upstream from the providers you dumbass.

Run Forass run!!!!

 

[iamwhatiseem]

Why the FUCK would someone demand the government take over their very HEALTH?

Gee, why don't we ask ALL those European countries?

Once again your ill informed self is glaringly obvious.
As it has been said 12,000,000 times - European countries, with few exceptions, expend less than 5% of their treasury for military expenses. Because they rely on American military might to protect them. Their entire economic spending depends on that fact.
Which is why many of us have been saying for yeeeaaaarrrss....these countries either need to pony up and provide for their own security or pay America a tax for providing that security.

 

[Avatar4321]

I have to say it is amusing watching Nat argue to give Donald Trump power over our health care.

Kind of sad too

 

[Rustic]

Progressives need to keep single payer to themselves, leave the rest of us out. It does not require our participation

 

[forkup]

I'll give some facts about why single payer is cheaper at least in my country.
-Lets first state the obvious. If the profit motive doesn't exist there is no need to make profit. Every penny you give shareholders of hospital, health insurance companies and pharmaceutical companies is a penny less to spend on the function of providing healthcare. Here we need to of course pay the pharmaceutical companies to. But price negotiations are at the country level. This gives us more leverage to get a good deal. Most hospitals and all Health insurance companies are state controlled.
-This means the administration is much simpler. Most of us have a general care practitioner, so our ER deal with actual emergencies. These doctors in general don't have secretaries because price setting is regulated, the same applies to our pharmacists, who don't need to find out what is covered because that is state controlled to. The same applies to our health insurance companies, my town population around 40000 people is served by about 20 people who have administrative functions dealing with health care. No pharmacy techs, almost no medical secretaries.
-No need for advertising health insurance, it's mandatory.
-Becoming a doctor costs you 550 euro a year, not a thousand, 5 hundred, this means no college debt, it also means doctors are cheaper because they don't have to work of this debt.
Conclusion:
Single payer is more streamlined and cheaper because a lot less money gets spent on non medical related things.

so in your country doctors, hospitals, drug companies, etc only exist to break even? Are you that stupid?

Did I say that?

pay the pharmaceutical companies to

it also means doctors are cheaper

yes, you did "-Lets first state the obvious. If the profit motive doesn't exist there is no need to make profit. Every penny you give shareholders of hospital, health insurance companies and pharmaceutical companies is a penny less to spend on the function of providing healthcare"

feel free to retract that lie if you choose.

What lie? You selectively quoting me is no proof that I lie. In fact the very next sentence to that I immediately define what we do pay for. Furthermore you trying to explain to me how MY health care is arranged is hilarious. We pay for pharmaceuticals on the open market, but we negotiate pricing on the country level. Most hospitals are subsidised and are non profit. Doctors earn money, but because becoming a doctor is cheaper they charge less than in the US. I challenge you to find a single letter that contradicts that. Btw the fact that you don't accept my reasoning why our healthcare is cheaper implies you have a better reasoning. So give it to me.

 

[BulletProof]

Socialism is inherently inefficient and oppressive. The only thing that can be said for socialized medicine is that anything is better than what we have now.

The universal healthcare holy grail should be Obamacare fixed, not socialized medicine. The government pays for health insurance, but otherwise there's a free market. But, this won't happen because Republicans are being their usual useless selves, leaving the way open for Democrat to socialize medicine.

 

[Markle]

Yes, that's right. I've explained many times on this forum that one of the things which will need to be done is to repeal the section of the McCarran-Ferguson Act which artificially created geographical oligarchies for the insurance companies.

That will have to be repealed so that you can buy health insurance from ANY insurance company in the country.

I agree with you 100% but it needs to go one step further. The ability to buy across state lines is not a solution unless the mandates in your home state are greatly relaxed. If a state has 28 mandates and you buy insurance from another state with 10 mandates, you still are required to have insurance covering 28 mandates, not 10 so the cost difference will be negligible.

 

[forkup]

Socialism is inherently inefficient and oppressive. The only thing that can be said for socialized medicine is that anything is better than what we have now.

The universal healthcare holy grail should be Obamacare fixed, not socialized medicine. The government pays for health insurance, but otherwise there's a free market. But, this won't happen because Republicans are being their usual useless selves, leaving the way open for Democrat to socialize medicine.

Explain why it's oppressive to provide healthcare for each and every one of it's citizens? And if it's so inefficient why are all single payer healthcare countries considerably cheaper?

 

[Anathema]

Bottom line is this......Who would "lose" under Medicare for ALL in this nation???.....Private HC companies. AND who would win under this same plan?,,,,,,,,,ALL OF US!!!!

Government healthcare means my death. I wouldn't suggest that's in my best interest. Nor the best interest of my wife or her parents.

 

[Markle]

People I've met from other countries shake their heads and say "only in America" when our health care system is brought up. This includes Canadians. One reason our health
care is so high here is because of corporate profits of the private insurance companies.

Yes, our health care for profit system gives us the best health care in the world in the most timely fashion.

Please name for us any nation, or three nations, who have developed more life-extending or life-saving drugs than the United States. Do the same for new medical technology and new medical procedures.

Why do you prefer a system such as Canada's where their waiting lists for medical services are, in the majority of cases months and even over a year. Hospitals across our Northern border are filled with Canadian patients. Did you know that women with difficult pregnancies in Canada are flown or transported to the United States for care because Canada does not have the facilities available? Why do you want that for this country?