Stranded Motorist Shoots to Death Good Samaritan Trying to Help Him...

[2aguy]

We all have a right to carry dingbat

You have the right to carry an American child? How strange.

One of the problem with a population so sure of its absolute perfection, is it's very hard to see your own faults.
You excuse 30,000 deaths per year, but spend $ billions on 3,000 deaths in ten years.

21,000 are suicide with a gun......

19,974 are suicide without a gun.....

8,124 illegal use of a gun mostly by career criminals murdering other career criminals....


And then you have 1.5 million defensive uses of guns by normal gun owning Americans who actually stop violent criminal attacks and save lives...according to bill clinton....

"What do these and so many other cases have in common? They are the byproduct of a tragic myth: that millions of gun owners successfully use their firearms to defend themselves and their families from criminals. Despite having nearly no academic support in public health literature, this myth is the single largest motivation behind gun ownership. It traces its origin to a two-decade-old series of surveys that, despite being thoroughly repudiated at the time, persists in influencing personal safety decisions and public policy throughout the United States.
In 1992, Gary Kleck and Marc Getz, criminologists at Florida State University, conducted a random digit-dial survey to establish the annual number of defensive gun uses in the United States. They surveyed 5,000 individuals, asking them if they had used a firearm in self-defense in the past year and, if so, for what reason and to what effect. Sixty-six incidences of defensive gun use were reported from the sample. The researchers then extrapolated their findings to the entire U.S. population, resulting in an estimate of between 1 million and 2.5 million defensive gun uses per year.
........
Kleck himself admitted in 1997, in response to criticism of his survey, that 36 to 64 percent of the defensive gun uses reported in the survey were likely illegal—meaning the firearm was used to intimidate or harm another person rather than for legitimate self-defense. His conjecture was confirmed by a Harvard study showing that 51 percent of defensive gun uses in a large survey were illegal according to a panel of 5 judges. This was even after the judges were told to take the respondents at their word, deliberately ignoring the tendency of respondents to portray themselves in a positive light.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/01/defensive-gun-ownership-myth-114262#ixzz3yDF1ARo6 "​

Here...a more fully developed quote from the piece last year by Kleck...

In order for a survey respondent to report a typical DGU, she or he must be willing to report all three of the following elements of the event: (1) a crime victimization experience, (2) his or her possession of a gun, and (3) his or her own commission of a crime.

The last element is relevant because most DGUs occur away from the user’s home, and only about 1 percent of the population in 1993, when we conducted our survey, had a permit that allowed them to legally carry a gun through public spaces.

Thus, although survey-reported defensive gun uses themselves rarely involve criminal behavior (that is, the defender did not use the gun to commit a criminal assault or other offense), most (at least back in 1993) involved unlawful possession of a gun in a public place by the defender.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/02/defensive-gun-ownership-gary-kleck-response-115082#ixzz3yDHcgaL0

 

[AmericanFirst1]

I love the way any negative mention of guns is derailed as soon as it turns up.
In fact, this was a drunk with a gun, so no gun would have been a fight at worst, not a funeral.

Oh, but without a gun how could he have defended himself? Guns are for protection you know, which is why yet another family will be attending yet another funeral next week.

Americans use guns 1.5 million times a year to stop violent attack and save lives......according to bill clinton.

There were 8,124 guns illegally used to commit murder, the majority of which were committed by violent, career criminals against other violent career criminals.......

Which number is bigger twit?

1,500,000 v. 8,124 (the majority of which were illegal uses of the gun by criminals unable to own or carry the gun)

In 2013 there were 11.1 million people carrying guns for self defense.....and 505 accidental gun deaths....

11,100,000 vs. 505

Which number is bigger....do you need to use your toes?

Not one statistic in this debate supports any of your beliefs or policy proposals........

Save the BS numbers. No one, especially me, cares.

We know retards like you hate facts, they confuse you. Idiot.

 

[2aguy]

We all have a right to carry dingbat

You have the right to carry an American child? How strange.

One of the problem with a population so sure of its absolute perfection, is it's very hard to see your own faults.
You excuse 30,000 deaths per year, but spend $ billions on 3,000 deaths in ten years.

21,000 are suicide with a gun......

19,974 are suicide without a gun.....

8,124 illegal use of a gun mostly by career criminals murdering other career criminals....


And then you have 1.5 million defensive uses of guns by normal gun owning Americans who actually stop violent criminal attacks and save lives...according to bill clinton....

"What do these and so many other cases have in common? They are the byproduct of a tragic myth: that millions of gun owners successfully use their firearms to defend themselves and their families from criminals. Despite having nearly no academic support in public health literature, this myth is the single largest motivation behind gun ownership. It traces its origin to a two-decade-old series of surveys that, despite being thoroughly repudiated at the time, persists in influencing personal safety decisions and public policy throughout the United States.
In 1992, Gary Kleck and Marc Getz, criminologists at Florida State University, conducted a random digit-dial survey to establish the annual number of defensive gun uses in the United States. They surveyed 5,000 individuals, asking them if they had used a firearm in self-defense in the past year and, if so, for what reason and to what effect. Sixty-six incidences of defensive gun use were reported from the sample. The researchers then extrapolated their findings to the entire U.S. population, resulting in an estimate of between 1 million and 2.5 million defensive gun uses per year.
........
Kleck himself admitted in 1997, in response to criticism of his survey, that 36 to 64 percent of the defensive gun uses reported in the survey were likely illegal—meaning the firearm was used to intimidate or harm another person rather than for legitimate self-defense. His conjecture was confirmed by a Harvard study showing that 51 percent of defensive gun uses in a large survey were illegal according to a panel of 5 judges. This was even after the judges were told to take the respondents at their word, deliberately ignoring the tendency of respondents to portray themselves in a positive light.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/01/defensive-gun-ownership-myth-114262#ixzz3yDF1ARo6 "​

And here you have the very sort of Person that Dr. Kleck was talking about...a woman who used to carry a gun, illegally, for self defense, and then, when she was in a gun free zone and a mass shooter murdered her parents...she didn't have her gun because she decided to comply with the laws of Texas at that time and left her gun in her car..........

Her testimony on this specific point starts at the 2 minute mark........

Dr. Suzanah Gratia Hupp...survivor of the Luby's Cafe mass shooting....

Shooting Survivor Fights For Concealed Weapons

another quicker link to her testimony...she also points out how little time it takes to change out a Magazine....she actually lived through a mass shooting...she knows...

 

[idb]

We all have a right to carry dingbat

You have the right to carry an American child? How strange.

One of the problem with a population so sure of its absolute perfection, is it's very hard to see your own faults.
You excuse 30,000 deaths per year, but spend $ billions on 3,000 deaths in ten years.

21,000 are suicide with a gun......

19,974 are suicide without a gun.....

8,124 illegal use of a gun mostly by career criminals murdering other career criminals....


And then you have 1.5 million defensive uses of guns by normal gun owning Americans who actually stop violent criminal attacks and save lives...according to bill clinton....

"What do these and so many other cases have in common? They are the byproduct of a tragic myth: that millions of gun owners successfully use their firearms to defend themselves and their families from criminals. Despite having nearly no academic support in public health literature, this myth is the single largest motivation behind gun ownership. It traces its origin to a two-decade-old series of surveys that, despite being thoroughly repudiated at the time, persists in influencing personal safety decisions and public policy throughout the United States.
In 1992, Gary Kleck and Marc Getz, criminologists at Florida State University, conducted a random digit-dial survey to establish the annual number of defensive gun uses in the United States. They surveyed 5,000 individuals, asking them if they had used a firearm in self-defense in the past year and, if so, for what reason and to what effect. Sixty-six incidences of defensive gun use were reported from the sample. The researchers then extrapolated their findings to the entire U.S. population, resulting in an estimate of between 1 million and 2.5 million defensive gun uses per year.
........
Kleck himself admitted in 1997, in response to criticism of his survey, that 36 to 64 percent of the defensive gun uses reported in the survey were likely illegal—meaning the firearm was used to intimidate or harm another person rather than for legitimate self-defense. His conjecture was confirmed by a Harvard study showing that 51 percent of defensive gun uses in a large survey were illegal according to a panel of 5 judges. This was even after the judges were told to take the respondents at their word, deliberately ignoring the tendency of respondents to portray themselves in a positive light.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/01/defensive-gun-ownership-myth-114262#ixzz3yDF1ARo6 "​

And here you have the very sort of Person that Dr. Kleck was talking about...a woman who used to carry a gun, illegally, for self defense, and then, when she was in a gun free zone and a mass shooter murdered her parents...she didn't have her gun because she decided to comply with the laws of Texas at that time and left her gun in her car..........

Her testimony on this specific point starts at the 2 minute mark........

Dr. Suzanah Gratia Hupp...survivor of the Luby's Cafe mass shooting....

Shooting Survivor Fights For Concealed Weapons

another quicker link to her testimony...she also points out how little time it takes to change out a Magazine....she actually lived through a mass shooting...she knows...

"
In the early hours of Nov. 2, 2013, in Dearborn Heights, Michigan, a pounding at the door startled Theodore Wafer from his slumber. Unable to find his cell phone to call the police, he grabbed the shotgun he kept loaded in his closet. Wafer opened the door and, spotting a dark figure behind the screen, fired a single blast at the supposed intruder. The shot killed a 19-year-old girl who was knocking to ask for help after a car accident.

Shortly after midnight on June 5, 2014, two friends left a party briefly. Upon returning they accidently knocked on the wrong door. Believing burglars were breaking in, the frightened homeowner called the police, grabbed his gun and fired a single round, hitting one of the confused party-goers in the chest.

On Sept. 21, 2014, Eusebio Christian was awakened by a noise. Assuming a break-in, he rushed to the kitchen with his gun and began firing. All his shots missed but one, which struck his wife in the face.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/01/defensive-gun-ownership-myth-114262#ixzz3yDKLsyb6 "​

 

[2aguy]

We all have a right to carry dingbat

You have the right to carry an American child? How strange.

One of the problem with a population so sure of its absolute perfection, is it's very hard to see your own faults.
You excuse 30,000 deaths per year, but spend $ billions on 3,000 deaths in ten years.

21,000 are suicide with a gun......

19,974 are suicide without a gun.....

8,124 illegal use of a gun mostly by career criminals murdering other career criminals....


And then you have 1.5 million defensive uses of guns by normal gun owning Americans who actually stop violent criminal attacks and save lives...according to bill clinton....

"What do these and so many other cases have in common? They are the byproduct of a tragic myth: that millions of gun owners successfully use their firearms to defend themselves and their families from criminals. Despite having nearly no academic support in public health literature, this myth is the single largest motivation behind gun ownership. It traces its origin to a two-decade-old series of surveys that, despite being thoroughly repudiated at the time, persists in influencing personal safety decisions and public policy throughout the United States.
In 1992, Gary Kleck and Marc Getz, criminologists at Florida State University, conducted a random digit-dial survey to establish the annual number of defensive gun uses in the United States. They surveyed 5,000 individuals, asking them if they had used a firearm in self-defense in the past year and, if so, for what reason and to what effect. Sixty-six incidences of defensive gun use were reported from the sample. The researchers then extrapolated their findings to the entire U.S. population, resulting in an estimate of between 1 million and 2.5 million defensive gun uses per year.
........
Kleck himself admitted in 1997, in response to criticism of his survey, that 36 to 64 percent of the defensive gun uses reported in the survey were likely illegal—meaning the firearm was used to intimidate or harm another person rather than for legitimate self-defense. His conjecture was confirmed by a Harvard study showing that 51 percent of defensive gun uses in a large survey were illegal according to a panel of 5 judges. This was even after the judges were told to take the respondents at their word, deliberately ignoring the tendency of respondents to portray themselves in a positive light.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/01/defensive-gun-ownership-myth-114262#ixzz3yDF1ARo6 "​

and here you go....you should actually read a quick rebuttal by Dr. Kleck to the hack hemenway and the other gun grabbers about his work....

So what does research on the flaws in surveys of crime-related behaviors tell us?

It consistently indicates that survey respondents underreport (1) crime victimization experiences,

(2) gun ownership and

(3) their own illegal behavior.

While it is true that a few respondents overstate their crime-related experiences, they are greatly outnumbered by those who understate them, i.e. those who falsely deny having the experience when in fact they did.

In sum, research tells us that surveys underestimate the frequency of crime victimizations, gun possession and self-reported illegal behavior.

Yet DeFilippis and Hughes somehow manage to conclude that defensive gun uses—incidents that always involve the first two of those elements, and usually the third as well—are overestimated in surveys.

Like Hemenway, DeFilippis and Hughes fail to understand the most fundamental logical issue regarding whether surveys under or overestimate the frequency of defensive gun use. The point at issue is not whether there are “false positive” responses, i.e. respondents saying “yes, they used their gun defensively” when the correct answer was “no.”

No one has ever disputed that there are some false positives in these surveys. But this by itself can tell us nothing about whether DGU estimates are too high or too low overall. Even if false positives were numerous, false negatives (when a respondent falsely denies a DGU that actually occurred) could be (and, according to extensive research, are) even more common.

In that case, survey estimates of DGU frequency would be too low, not the enormous overestimate that DeFilippis and Hughes believe in. Since neither of those authors nor Hemenway—nor any other critics for that matter—have ever made the slightest effort to estimate the number of false negatives, they cannot possibly know whether false positives outnumber false negatives and therefore have no logical foundation whatsoever for their claims that erroneous responses to DGU questions result in an overestimate of DGU frequency.

The authors’ discussion of possible flaws in survey estimates of DGU frequency is conspicuously one-sided, addressing only supposed flaws that could make the estimates too high—but none that could make the estimates too low.

As mentioned above, they say nothing about the well-documented failure of many survey respondents to report criminal victimization, gun ownership or their own crimes. Likewise, they do not mention that our estimates did not include any DGUs by adolescent crime victims, even though adolescents are more likely to be crime victims than adults, and just as likely to carry guns, albeit illegally.


Read more: http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/02/defensive-gun-ownership-gary-kleck-response-115082#ixzz3yDJpNwLX

 

[2aguy]

We all have a right to carry dingbat

You have the right to carry an American child? How strange.

One of the problem with a population so sure of its absolute perfection, is it's very hard to see your own faults.
You excuse 30,000 deaths per year, but spend $ billions on 3,000 deaths in ten years.

21,000 are suicide with a gun......

19,974 are suicide without a gun.....

8,124 illegal use of a gun mostly by career criminals murdering other career criminals....


And then you have 1.5 million defensive uses of guns by normal gun owning Americans who actually stop violent criminal attacks and save lives...according to bill clinton....

"What do these and so many other cases have in common? They are the byproduct of a tragic myth: that millions of gun owners successfully use their firearms to defend themselves and their families from criminals. Despite having nearly no academic support in public health literature, this myth is the single largest motivation behind gun ownership. It traces its origin to a two-decade-old series of surveys that, despite being thoroughly repudiated at the time, persists in influencing personal safety decisions and public policy throughout the United States.
In 1992, Gary Kleck and Marc Getz, criminologists at Florida State University, conducted a random digit-dial survey to establish the annual number of defensive gun uses in the United States. They surveyed 5,000 individuals, asking them if they had used a firearm in self-defense in the past year and, if so, for what reason and to what effect. Sixty-six incidences of defensive gun use were reported from the sample. The researchers then extrapolated their findings to the entire U.S. population, resulting in an estimate of between 1 million and 2.5 million defensive gun uses per year.
........
Kleck himself admitted in 1997, in response to criticism of his survey, that 36 to 64 percent of the defensive gun uses reported in the survey were likely illegal—meaning the firearm was used to intimidate or harm another person rather than for legitimate self-defense. His conjecture was confirmed by a Harvard study showing that 51 percent of defensive gun uses in a large survey were illegal according to a panel of 5 judges. This was even after the judges were told to take the respondents at their word, deliberately ignoring the tendency of respondents to portray themselves in a positive light.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/01/defensive-gun-ownership-myth-114262#ixzz3yDF1ARo6 "​

And here you have the very sort of Person that Dr. Kleck was talking about...a woman who used to carry a gun, illegally, for self defense, and then, when she was in a gun free zone and a mass shooter murdered her parents...she didn't have her gun because she decided to comply with the laws of Texas at that time and left her gun in her car..........

Her testimony on this specific point starts at the 2 minute mark........

Dr. Suzanah Gratia Hupp...survivor of the Luby's Cafe mass shooting....

Shooting Survivor Fights For Concealed Weapons

another quicker link to her testimony...she also points out how little time it takes to change out a Magazine....she actually lived through a mass shooting...she knows...

"
In the early hours of Nov. 2, 2013, in Dearborn Heights, Michigan, a pounding at the door startled Theodore Wafer from his slumber. Unable to find his cell phone to call the police, he grabbed the shotgun he kept loaded in his closet. Wafer opened the door and, spotting a dark figure behind the screen, fired a single blast at the supposed intruder. The shot killed a 19-year-old girl who was knocking to ask for help after a car accident.

Shortly after midnight on June 5, 2014, two friends left a party briefly. Upon returning they accidently knocked on the wrong door. Believing burglars were breaking in, the frightened homeowner called the police, grabbed his gun and fired a single round, hitting one of the confused party-goers in the chest.

On Sept. 21, 2014, Eusebio Christian was awakened by a noise. Assuming a break-in, he rushed to the kitchen with his gun and began firing. All his shots missed but one, which struck his wife in the face.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/01/defensive-gun-ownership-myth-114262#ixzz3yDKLsyb6 "​

Americans use guns 1.5 million times a year to stop violent criminal attack and save lives...according to bill clinton and barak obama....

Gun accidents in 2013 from the CDC table 10.... 505


Which number is bigger......can you tell....? You don't seem to be able to........another child like trait of the anti gun loons...

1,500,000 vs. 505

 

[2aguy]

We all have a right to carry dingbat

You have the right to carry an American child? How strange.

One of the problem with a population so sure of its absolute perfection, is it's very hard to see your own faults.
You excuse 30,000 deaths per year, but spend $ billions on 3,000 deaths in ten years.

21,000 are suicide with a gun......

19,974 are suicide without a gun.....

8,124 illegal use of a gun mostly by career criminals murdering other career criminals....


And then you have 1.5 million defensive uses of guns by normal gun owning Americans who actually stop violent criminal attacks and save lives...according to bill clinton....

"What do these and so many other cases have in common? They are the byproduct of a tragic myth: that millions of gun owners successfully use their firearms to defend themselves and their families from criminals. Despite having nearly no academic support in public health literature, this myth is the single largest motivation behind gun ownership. It traces its origin to a two-decade-old series of surveys that, despite being thoroughly repudiated at the time, persists in influencing personal safety decisions and public policy throughout the United States.
In 1992, Gary Kleck and Marc Getz, criminologists at Florida State University, conducted a random digit-dial survey to establish the annual number of defensive gun uses in the United States. They surveyed 5,000 individuals, asking them if they had used a firearm in self-defense in the past year and, if so, for what reason and to what effect. Sixty-six incidences of defensive gun use were reported from the sample. The researchers then extrapolated their findings to the entire U.S. population, resulting in an estimate of between 1 million and 2.5 million defensive gun uses per year.
........
Kleck himself admitted in 1997, in response to criticism of his survey, that 36 to 64 percent of the defensive gun uses reported in the survey were likely illegal—meaning the firearm was used to intimidate or harm another person rather than for legitimate self-defense. His conjecture was confirmed by a Harvard study showing that 51 percent of defensive gun uses in a large survey were illegal according to a panel of 5 judges. This was even after the judges were told to take the respondents at their word, deliberately ignoring the tendency of respondents to portray themselves in a positive light.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/01/defensive-gun-ownership-myth-114262#ixzz3yDF1ARo6 "​

And here you have the very sort of Person that Dr. Kleck was talking about...a woman who used to carry a gun, illegally, for self defense, and then, when she was in a gun free zone and a mass shooter murdered her parents...she didn't have her gun because she decided to comply with the laws of Texas at that time and left her gun in her car..........

Her testimony on this specific point starts at the 2 minute mark........

Dr. Suzanah Gratia Hupp...survivor of the Luby's Cafe mass shooting....

Shooting Survivor Fights For Concealed Weapons

another quicker link to her testimony...she also points out how little time it takes to change out a Magazine....she actually lived through a mass shooting...she knows...

"
In the early hours of Nov. 2, 2013, in Dearborn Heights, Michigan, a pounding at the door startled Theodore Wafer from his slumber. Unable to find his cell phone to call the police, he grabbed the shotgun he kept loaded in his closet. Wafer opened the door and, spotting a dark figure behind the screen, fired a single blast at the supposed intruder. The shot killed a 19-year-old girl who was knocking to ask for help after a car accident.

Shortly after midnight on June 5, 2014, two friends left a party briefly. Upon returning they accidently knocked on the wrong door. Believing burglars were breaking in, the frightened homeowner called the police, grabbed his gun and fired a single round, hitting one of the confused party-goers in the chest.

On Sept. 21, 2014, Eusebio Christian was awakened by a noise. Assuming a break-in, he rushed to the kitchen with his gun and began firing. All his shots missed but one, which struck his wife in the face.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/01/defensive-gun-ownership-myth-114262#ixzz3yDKLsyb6 "​

See...I can post stories too........you only have to post 505....I have to post 1,500,000....

Yes....this woman wakes up at 6.am. to be pistol whipped by 3 armed home invaders.....while her 2 children are sleeping. She manages to get to her pistol and shoots the a******s and they run. She manages to hit at least one them who apparently assumed room temperature.

Too bad she had that gun. Now that poor, violent sociopath was killed. It is really a shame when 3 gun toting, violent sociopaths can't enter a home at 6 a.m., pistol whip the woman in the home, and who knows what else they planned, and without getting shot at. Something really needs to be done....she should never have had that gun in the first place...I am sure had she not had that gun.....and other than the pistol whipping, these 3 violent sociopaths meant her no harm.....er.....other than the pistol whipping......

What kind of country do we live in when even violent sociopaths aren't safe from gun violence....?

DGU of the Day: Trotwood Ohio Woman Defeats Three Home Invaders - The Truth About Guns

Three men break into a home in Trotwood, Ohio. [Click here to watch the video.] They’re all armed. It is before 6 am, just three days after Christmas. One of the men is armed with a Tec-9 pistol. He enters last. The other two hold what appear to be conventional semi-auto pistols. They bypass two sleeping children to find the mother. The surveillance video shows the three following the mother after they pistol whipped her in the laundry room.

The man directly behind her has the Tec-9. Presumably holds her at gunpoint while the other two attempt to drag off a safe, in a room with two more children. While the two men are occupied with the safe, the woman breaks free from her captor, accesses a hidden pistol, and starts to fire.

All three run, but the Tec-9 gunman, Azikiwe Presley, is mortally wounded. His body is found 100 yards from the house. From wdtn.com:

“I got my gun and I started shooting and they ran,” the female caller told dispatchers. “They all three had guns, I’m confused … they must not have had bullets because after I pulled the trigger they just took off, instead of firing back. I don’t know if I hit one or not, I don’t see blood anywhere.”

In this case, the recipient of female dedication to protecting innocent life ran a hundred yards and died. It is not uncommon for a man who is fatally shot to run that far, even with a heart/lung shot. As he was likely the one holding the woman at gunpoint, and the closest, greatest, threat with the Tec-9, it is not surprising that he drew the lethal ticket. Whether through choice or happenstance, the mother made the right tactical decision.

Now....here is the thing.....the gun grabbers on U.S. will first tell us that this never happens.

Next they will tell us that the defender with a gun will never be able to actually use the gun because they aren't Navy Seals.

Next they will say, there is no way a good woman with a gun will ever win because she will be easily disarmed.

So......3 men with guns grab a woman with the element of surprise. They hit her, probably injuring her. She manages to get her gun and shoot the three of them out of her house killing one of the a******s in the process.........and I didn't see anywhere in the article where she was the first woman Navy Seal.

************************
Homeowner Stays Armed In The House — Finds Knife-Wielding Man Inside And It Turns Out Great!

WILLMAR, MINNESOTA — A Willmar homeowner returned home to find a man wielding a knife in the middle of his living room. Using his pistol, which he was licensed to carry, he held the suspect at gunpoint and called 911. During the encounter, he allowed the suspect to leave after putting his buck knife down. Police caught up to the suspect, 37-year-old by the name of Shane Fellers. He was found inside a vehicle being operated by an unknown woman. Both were taken into custody and, according to the West Central Tribune, Fellers was held on a $70,000 unconditional bail for first degree burglary and burglary with a dangerous weapon. He also allegedly supplied the police officer with an incorrect name when he was initially apprehended — tacking on an additional misdemeanor.**********************
Just saw this on the news....Predfan posted it in the firearms thread but this is about the owner of the store.....on the local news he thanked the new concealed carry law and the fact that his employee is a concealed carry permit holder.......I never thought I would see this in Chicago....

T-Mobile store employee shoots 2 armed robbery suspects near 95th, Jeffrey

The T-Mobile store in the 2000-block of East 95th St. was left riddled with bullet holes. If not for the employee carrying a weapon with a concealed carry license, the manager of the store says he might be telling a different story.

"I think concealed carry is a great opportunity for managers, workers, employees to protect themselves in these cases. And our employee did a great job to protect themselves and the other employee," said Neil Tadros, store manager.

He says two men entered the store and acted like they were shopping for phones for a few minutes, then pulled out guns.

One employee ran to the back to call for help while the other pulled out his own gun and fired at the two suspects. He hit one of them in the groin and the arm, and the other in the abdomen and the arm.

The men ran from the store with the employee chasing them, on the phone giving a description to police.

The suspects then drove to a nearby hospital where police took them into custody.

Neighbors say the cell phone store has been robbed several times in the last month. Ed Brown was working in the salon next door.


We need more of these stories and then the criminals will start breaking into stores when no one is in them...that way they won't get shot.....

--------------
Concealed Nation Fan Fends Off Three Home Invaders With M&P Shield

A father and son successfully fought off three home invaders in an early morning all-out fight for survival. Columbus police confirm that there was a home invasion in vicinity of 2:30 am where three suspected attackers kicked in the front door and immediately set to assaulting the son who was first to respond. Thankfully, his father was in the other room and able to flush out the attackers — using nothing less than his future everyday carry pistol, the M&P Shield.

“I come out and this one little one come tried to attack me and I took him out right away, one in the white shirt tried attacking me from the side, tried choking me and that kind of stuff,” says Shawn Howell, “Next thing you know he loses power and I jump up to get up and ready to start cleaning clocks but I just darted into my room… I come out and they were flying out the door so fast, I never seen anybody run so fast in my life… they knew what was coming,they knew I was going for a gun.”

According to both the victims’ testimony and police statements released through Channel 48 – Nebraska, the attackers fled before the future-concealed carrier could put bullets on target but he allegedly pursued them to their vehicle to “mark the truck”.

Both victims were transported to a nearby hospital where they were treated for superficial wounds sustained during the assault. Both the father and son were attending a concealed carry course to get their concealed carry permits and neither were expecting an attack of this magnitude to occur in their home.

---------


Burglars call 911 on themselves as homeowner holds them at gunpoint

A pair of men who were breaking into a Woodland, Washington, home Monday night got quite a scare when the owner of the house caught them redhanded.

Bill Lahti was surprised to find his home had been burglarized last week, partly because the home, which belonged to Lahti’s great-grandparents years ago and was handed down to him, isn’t exactly in an easy to get to location. The rural property has been dubbed by the Lahti family as “the hill,” and given the home’s history, Lahti was especially appalled at the break-in.

“I kept coming back periodically to check in,” Lahti told KATU. “So, Monday night, I roll up and there’s their truck backed up to the front door in the yard. (The) door was about – probably – four inches open. I could see the light through there. So, I came out there, jumped out of my truck, kicked the door open and there they were.”

Lahti told the two men to get down on their knees as he held them at gunpoint. He was going to call the police on them, but Lahti couldn’t get his phone to work. With his gun still trained on them, he instructed the crooks to make the call themselves. With few options, the suspects complied.

-----



Concealed Carrier Holds Burglar At Gunpoint With Her FNX .45

CLEVELAND, TENNESSEE — A woman successfully subdued a would-be burglar outside her home using her FNX .45. The suspect, James Jeffrey Dunn, was allegedly trying to break in through her front door late at night. She got her handgun and confronted the burglar, according to WRCB. Once at the doorway, she yelled through the door for him to stay put and not move. Moments later, she confronted him head-on — handgun drawn and ready to go.

via WRCB

“I tried to order him to stay right where he was at and I pointed the gun at him and I came running off the porch and I came within 10 feet of him and he laid the bicycle down and he crumpled on top of the bicycle,” she says.

She held him at gunpoint until Cleveland Police arrived and arrested Dunn, 35, on charges of aggravated burglary, theft, and burglary of a motor vehicle. Police note that Dunn had an arrest sheet tallying over 40 charges — the most recent being only 6 hours prior to his attempted burglary of this concealed carrier.

“We went over this when we got my concealed carry permit, these types of scenarios. But I had already put that gun up and ever taken it out since, you know?” she says. “Maybe to go the range once.”

When we talk about the new generation of concealed carriers, let’s take a good long look at the realities these people are facing: hardened, career criminals unafraid to bust through the door or do damage to private property and persons. It’s a good thing this woman had the proper training she needed and the right equipment.



---------------------------------

Lancaster Woman Scares Off Bat-Wielding Attackers By Pulling Gun On Them

LANCASTER, Ohio - It happened along a walking path in Lancaster.

Dinah Burns is licensed to carry a concealed gun, but she'd only recently started taking her weapon while walking her dog.

Based on what happened, it looks like she'll make a point of carrying from now on.

"I think if they'd gotten any closer, I probably would have fired,” said Burns.

It was Monday when Burns was on a footpath near Sanderson Elementary School.

"Two gentlemen came out of the woods, one holding a baseball bat, and said 'You're coming with us'."

The men weren't deterred by Dinah's dog Gracie.

"I said, 'Well, what do you want?,' and as I was saying that I reached in to my pocket and slipped my gun out, slipped the safety off as I pulled it out. As I was doing that the other gentleman came toward me and raised the baseball bat. And, I pointed the gun at them and said, 'I have this and I'm not afraid to use it.'"

The men took off and so far have eluded police. Dinah posted about the incident on Facebook to alert friends and neighbors, to criticism by some.

"Most of the males' opinion was, 'Why didn't you shoot them?'"

Easy to second-guess a decision made under pressure, based on her concealed carry training, and police agree.

"To get out of a situation, back out, get out of it as much as you can without having to discharge your firearm."

"I will say it's a good thing to go from a place of danger to a place of safety, however you get that done,” said Sgt. Matt Chambers, Lancaster Police.

"Very thankful that it turned out the way it did, and hope it doesn't happen again, but I will be prepared."

NRA-ILA | Armed homeowner scares off attacker, KTVA, Anchorage, Alaska 11/13/15

A homeowner was in their house in Anchorage, Alaska when they heard a knock at the door. The homeowner retrieved a gun and went to answer the door. Upon opening the door, an intruder pepper-sprayed the homeowner, prompting the homeowner to fire at the criminal. The attacker fled the scene. (KTVA, Anchorage, Alaska 11/13/15)

---------

NRA-ILA | Elderly couple fights off real monsters on Halloween, Helena-Arkansas.com, Helena, Ark. 11/01/15

An elderly couple were at home Halloween night, when the doorbell rang. Prepared to hand out candy to trick-or-treaters, the wife opened the door to find four armed robbers, at least two of whom were armed with guns.

The robbers forced their way inside the home, where the husband was sitting in a recliner. Upon learning of the home invasion, the husband retrieved a gun and fired at the criminals, prompting the home invaders to flee. (Helena-Arkansas.com, Helena, Ark. 11/01/15)​

-----​

 

[NYcarbineer]

Guns would have ruined the original good Samaritan story, as told by Jesus.

 

[2aguy]

We all have a right to carry dingbat

You have the right to carry an American child? How strange.

One of the problem with a population so sure of its absolute perfection, is it's very hard to see your own faults.
You excuse 30,000 deaths per year, but spend $ billions on 3,000 deaths in ten years.

21,000 are suicide with a gun......

19,974 are suicide without a gun.....

8,124 illegal use of a gun mostly by career criminals murdering other career criminals....


And then you have 1.5 million defensive uses of guns by normal gun owning Americans who actually stop violent criminal attacks and save lives...according to bill clinton....

"What do these and so many other cases have in common? They are the byproduct of a tragic myth: that millions of gun owners successfully use their firearms to defend themselves and their families from criminals. Despite having nearly no academic support in public health literature, this myth is the single largest motivation behind gun ownership. It traces its origin to a two-decade-old series of surveys that, despite being thoroughly repudiated at the time, persists in influencing personal safety decisions and public policy throughout the United States.
In 1992, Gary Kleck and Marc Getz, criminologists at Florida State University, conducted a random digit-dial survey to establish the annual number of defensive gun uses in the United States. They surveyed 5,000 individuals, asking them if they had used a firearm in self-defense in the past year and, if so, for what reason and to what effect. Sixty-six incidences of defensive gun use were reported from the sample. The researchers then extrapolated their findings to the entire U.S. population, resulting in an estimate of between 1 million and 2.5 million defensive gun uses per year.
........
Kleck himself admitted in 1997, in response to criticism of his survey, that 36 to 64 percent of the defensive gun uses reported in the survey were likely illegal—meaning the firearm was used to intimidate or harm another person rather than for legitimate self-defense. His conjecture was confirmed by a Harvard study showing that 51 percent of defensive gun uses in a large survey were illegal according to a panel of 5 judges. This was even after the judges were told to take the respondents at their word, deliberately ignoring the tendency of respondents to portray themselves in a positive light.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/01/defensive-gun-ownership-myth-114262#ixzz3yDF1ARo6 "​

And here you have the very sort of Person that Dr. Kleck was talking about...a woman who used to carry a gun, illegally, for self defense, and then, when she was in a gun free zone and a mass shooter murdered her parents...she didn't have her gun because she decided to comply with the laws of Texas at that time and left her gun in her car..........

Her testimony on this specific point starts at the 2 minute mark........

Dr. Suzanah Gratia Hupp...survivor of the Luby's Cafe mass shooting....

Shooting Survivor Fights For Concealed Weapons

another quicker link to her testimony...she also points out how little time it takes to change out a Magazine....she actually lived through a mass shooting...she knows...

"
In the early hours of Nov. 2, 2013, in Dearborn Heights, Michigan, a pounding at the door startled Theodore Wafer from his slumber. Unable to find his cell phone to call the police, he grabbed the shotgun he kept loaded in his closet. Wafer opened the door and, spotting a dark figure behind the screen, fired a single blast at the supposed intruder. The shot killed a 19-year-old girl who was knocking to ask for help after a car accident.

Shortly after midnight on June 5, 2014, two friends left a party briefly. Upon returning they accidently knocked on the wrong door. Believing burglars were breaking in, the frightened homeowner called the police, grabbed his gun and fired a single round, hitting one of the confused party-goers in the chest.

On Sept. 21, 2014, Eusebio Christian was awakened by a noise. Assuming a break-in, he rushed to the kitchen with his gun and began firing. All his shots missed but one, which struck his wife in the face.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/01/defensive-gun-ownership-myth-114262#ixzz3yDKLsyb6 "​

And I love this truth, reality and facts....from Virginia.........that shows how wrong you are...

http://www.wnd.com/2011/08/334117/

When Virginia passed a law allowing concealed carry in bars and alcohol-serving restaurants beginning July 1 of last year, opponents of the change decried the dangers of mixing guns and alcohol, for fear violent crimes would escalate.
But one year later, the Richmond Times-Dispatch did a study to see if the gloomy prognostications came true.
According to state police records, not only did gun violence in bars and restaurants not increase under the new law, it decreased by 5.2 percent.
In fact, of the 145 reported crimes with guns that occurred in Virginia bars and restaurants in fiscal 2010-11 (compared to 153 incidents in the year before the new law took effect), only two of the aggravated assault cases were related to concealed-carry permit holders. In one incident, the crime took place at a restaurant that didn’t serve alcohol – thus unrelated to the new law – and in the other, the weapon was neither discharged nor withdrawn from its holster.
“The numbers basically just confirm what we’ve said would happen if the General Assembly changed the law,” Philip Van Cleave, president of the pro-gun Virginia Citizens Defense League, told the Times-Dispatch. “Keep in mind what the other side was saying – that this was going to be a blood bath, that restaurants will be dangerous and people will stop going. But there was nothing to base the fear-mongering on.”

Read more at http://www.wnd.com/2011/08/334117/#oYSskw0dy5eAyXbX.99

More.....actual research by Richmond Times-Dispatch
Gun crimes drop at Virginia bars and restaurants

The number of major crimes involving firearms at bars and restaurants statewide declined 5.2 percent from July 1, 2010, to June 30, 2011, compared with the fiscal year before the law went into effect, according to crime data compiled by Virginia State Police at the newspaper's request.

--------------------------

At The Times-Dispatch's request, state police pulled from their computerized database all major crimes at bars and restaurants reported by local law-enforcement agencies across Virginia for two successive fiscal years. The Times-Dispatch then contacted more than a dozen police departments in Virginia for more detailed information on all aggravated assaults, homicides and sexual assaults involving firearms at those businesses.

Reported robberies were not analyzed because they tend to involve premeditated crimes by perpetrators openly displaying guns, and many of the affected businesses are chain restaurants that don't serve alcohol.

Only two fatal shootings occurred during the last fiscal year — one outside a Petersburg nightclub and the other at a Radford restaurant — but neither involved concealed-gun permit holders. And only two of the 18 aggravated assaults reported could be linked definitively to concealed-carry holders.

Several other cases appear to have involved hidden guns, but the suspects either didn't have a concealed permit, or they fled the scene before they could be identified and arrested.

One of the few unambiguous cases of a concealed-gun permit holder breaking the law occurred on July 28, 2010 — 27 days after the law became active — at a deli in York County. In that case, a patron who had been drinking heavily with a gun concealed in his pocket allegedly sexually harassed a female waitress and, at one point, placed his hand over his hidden gun so the waitress could see its outline.
After making a comment the waitress construed as a threat, the man left but was stopped a short time later by police. They recovered a .380-caliber pistol from his pants pocket and charged him with driving under the influence, brandishing a firearm and carrying a concealed weapon.

He was charged with the latter offense — even though he had a permit to carry the gun — because he had been drinking in the deli while in possession of a concealed firearm. The law forbids concealed-gun permit holders to drink alcohol while they are inside bars and restaurants with guns hidden from view. Patrons who legally carry firearms openly into bars and restaurants can drink freely.
Authorities confiscated the man's concealed-gun permit, but the brandishing and concealed weapon charges were eventually withdrawn by prosecutors. He was convicted of driving while drunk.

In another case closer to home, a Hopewell man with a concealed-carry permit was arrested in June after police said he brandished a gun in the parking lot of a chain restaurant after a verbal dispute escalated into a fight among several patrons. No shots were fired, but punches were thrown.

Although the man pulled a concealed weapon during the fight, the new law didn't really apply because the restaurant where the incident occurred doesn't serve alcohol. The man was convicted last month of brandishing the gun — which he appealed — and a malicious-wounding charge was certified to a Hopewell grand jury.

Aside from the two homicides, the only assault that resulted in a person being shot occurred in February outside a Virginia Beach restaurant and bar. The shooting followed an altercation inside the restaurant. Several unknown men were asked to leave, and the victim was shot and wounded as he walked toward a male in an adjacent parking lot, police said.

But because the suspect was never identified and arrested, police don't know whether the shooter was carrying a concealed gun or whether he had a permit to carry it.

 

[idb]

You have the right to carry an American child? How strange.

One of the problem with a population so sure of its absolute perfection, is it's very hard to see your own faults.
You excuse 30,000 deaths per year, but spend $ billions on 3,000 deaths in ten years.

21,000 are suicide with a gun......

19,974 are suicide without a gun.....

8,124 illegal use of a gun mostly by career criminals murdering other career criminals....


And then you have 1.5 million defensive uses of guns by normal gun owning Americans who actually stop violent criminal attacks and save lives...according to bill clinton....

"What do these and so many other cases have in common? They are the byproduct of a tragic myth: that millions of gun owners successfully use their firearms to defend themselves and their families from criminals. Despite having nearly no academic support in public health literature, this myth is the single largest motivation behind gun ownership. It traces its origin to a two-decade-old series of surveys that, despite being thoroughly repudiated at the time, persists in influencing personal safety decisions and public policy throughout the United States.
In 1992, Gary Kleck and Marc Getz, criminologists at Florida State University, conducted a random digit-dial survey to establish the annual number of defensive gun uses in the United States. They surveyed 5,000 individuals, asking them if they had used a firearm in self-defense in the past year and, if so, for what reason and to what effect. Sixty-six incidences of defensive gun use were reported from the sample. The researchers then extrapolated their findings to the entire U.S. population, resulting in an estimate of between 1 million and 2.5 million defensive gun uses per year.
........
Kleck himself admitted in 1997, in response to criticism of his survey, that 36 to 64 percent of the defensive gun uses reported in the survey were likely illegal—meaning the firearm was used to intimidate or harm another person rather than for legitimate self-defense. His conjecture was confirmed by a Harvard study showing that 51 percent of defensive gun uses in a large survey were illegal according to a panel of 5 judges. This was even after the judges were told to take the respondents at their word, deliberately ignoring the tendency of respondents to portray themselves in a positive light.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/01/defensive-gun-ownership-myth-114262#ixzz3yDF1ARo6 "​

And here you have the very sort of Person that Dr. Kleck was talking about...a woman who used to carry a gun, illegally, for self defense, and then, when she was in a gun free zone and a mass shooter murdered her parents...she didn't have her gun because she decided to comply with the laws of Texas at that time and left her gun in her car..........

Her testimony on this specific point starts at the 2 minute mark........

Dr. Suzanah Gratia Hupp...survivor of the Luby's Cafe mass shooting....

Shooting Survivor Fights For Concealed Weapons

another quicker link to her testimony...she also points out how little time it takes to change out a Magazine....she actually lived through a mass shooting...she knows...

"
In the early hours of Nov. 2, 2013, in Dearborn Heights, Michigan, a pounding at the door startled Theodore Wafer from his slumber. Unable to find his cell phone to call the police, he grabbed the shotgun he kept loaded in his closet. Wafer opened the door and, spotting a dark figure behind the screen, fired a single blast at the supposed intruder. The shot killed a 19-year-old girl who was knocking to ask for help after a car accident.

Shortly after midnight on June 5, 2014, two friends left a party briefly. Upon returning they accidently knocked on the wrong door. Believing burglars were breaking in, the frightened homeowner called the police, grabbed his gun and fired a single round, hitting one of the confused party-goers in the chest.

On Sept. 21, 2014, Eusebio Christian was awakened by a noise. Assuming a break-in, he rushed to the kitchen with his gun and began firing. All his shots missed but one, which struck his wife in the face.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/01/defensive-gun-ownership-myth-114262#ixzz3yDKLsyb6 "​

Americans use guns 1.5 million times a year to stop violent criminal attack and save lives...according to bill clinton and barak obama....

Gun accidents in 2013 from the CDC table 10.... 505


Which number is bigger......can you tell....? You don't seem to be able to........another child like trait of the anti gun loons...

1,500,000 vs. 505

"
A recent study published in The Journal of Preventive Medicine offers new support for the argument that owning a gun does not make you safer. The study, led by David Hemenway, Ph.D., of the Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health, examines data from the National Crime Victimization Survey — an annual survey of 90,000 households — and shows not only that so-called “defensive gun use” (DGU) rarely protects a person from harm, but also that such incidents are much more rare than gun advocates claim.

In response to GVA data, pro-gun advocates have been forced to argue that the reason researchers can barely find .064 percent of the 2.5 million DGUs a year claimed by Kleck and Gertz is because virtually nobody reports their defensive gun use to the police. This argument is problematic. For starters, it would seem to imply that the vast majority of people using guns in self-defense are irresponsible citizens who use their firearm to ward off an attempted crime, and then, perhaps uncertain about the legality of their action, are leery of interacting with the police. It would also imply that while these citizens ostensibly stopped a crime serious enough to justify brandishing a firearm, they aren’t at all concerned about informing the police about a criminal who remains on the street.

Even more problematically, Kleck’s own survey indicates that police knew about 64% of DGUs. And other studies come to similar numbers. So if Kleck’s study is correct, we should find nearly 1 million police and media reports each year, and more than 25,000 if the NCVS is correct. The fact that we’re not finding empirical support of defensive gun uses demonstrates unequivocally that such estimates are wrong. It is instructive that gun advocates cling to Kleck’s figure that guns are used “2.5 million times a year”, insisting that his survey somehow got that number exactly right, but conveniently overlook the figure from the very same survey on police reports, which is demonstrably off by a factor of nearly 1000."
More Holes in the Defensive Gun Use Myth: New Study Finds DGU is Ineffective and Rare

 

[2aguy]

Guns would have ruined the original good Samaritan story, as told by Jesus.

yeah....you are right.....the victim wouldn't have been beaten and robbed in the first place if he had just had a gun....he would have captured them...or scared them off or shot and killed or injured them....then the good Samaritan wouldn't have had to do anything........and that road would have been safer......

 

[2aguy]

21,000 are suicide with a gun......

19,974 are suicide without a gun.....

8,124 illegal use of a gun mostly by career criminals murdering other career criminals....


And then you have 1.5 million defensive uses of guns by normal gun owning Americans who actually stop violent criminal attacks and save lives...according to bill clinton....

"What do these and so many other cases have in common? They are the byproduct of a tragic myth: that millions of gun owners successfully use their firearms to defend themselves and their families from criminals. Despite having nearly no academic support in public health literature, this myth is the single largest motivation behind gun ownership. It traces its origin to a two-decade-old series of surveys that, despite being thoroughly repudiated at the time, persists in influencing personal safety decisions and public policy throughout the United States.
In 1992, Gary Kleck and Marc Getz, criminologists at Florida State University, conducted a random digit-dial survey to establish the annual number of defensive gun uses in the United States. They surveyed 5,000 individuals, asking them if they had used a firearm in self-defense in the past year and, if so, for what reason and to what effect. Sixty-six incidences of defensive gun use were reported from the sample. The researchers then extrapolated their findings to the entire U.S. population, resulting in an estimate of between 1 million and 2.5 million defensive gun uses per year.
........
Kleck himself admitted in 1997, in response to criticism of his survey, that 36 to 64 percent of the defensive gun uses reported in the survey were likely illegal—meaning the firearm was used to intimidate or harm another person rather than for legitimate self-defense. His conjecture was confirmed by a Harvard study showing that 51 percent of defensive gun uses in a large survey were illegal according to a panel of 5 judges. This was even after the judges were told to take the respondents at their word, deliberately ignoring the tendency of respondents to portray themselves in a positive light.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/01/defensive-gun-ownership-myth-114262#ixzz3yDF1ARo6 "​

And here you have the very sort of Person that Dr. Kleck was talking about...a woman who used to carry a gun, illegally, for self defense, and then, when she was in a gun free zone and a mass shooter murdered her parents...she didn't have her gun because she decided to comply with the laws of Texas at that time and left her gun in her car..........

Her testimony on this specific point starts at the 2 minute mark........

Dr. Suzanah Gratia Hupp...survivor of the Luby's Cafe mass shooting....

Shooting Survivor Fights For Concealed Weapons

another quicker link to her testimony...she also points out how little time it takes to change out a Magazine....she actually lived through a mass shooting...she knows...

"
In the early hours of Nov. 2, 2013, in Dearborn Heights, Michigan, a pounding at the door startled Theodore Wafer from his slumber. Unable to find his cell phone to call the police, he grabbed the shotgun he kept loaded in his closet. Wafer opened the door and, spotting a dark figure behind the screen, fired a single blast at the supposed intruder. The shot killed a 19-year-old girl who was knocking to ask for help after a car accident.

Shortly after midnight on June 5, 2014, two friends left a party briefly. Upon returning they accidently knocked on the wrong door. Believing burglars were breaking in, the frightened homeowner called the police, grabbed his gun and fired a single round, hitting one of the confused party-goers in the chest.

On Sept. 21, 2014, Eusebio Christian was awakened by a noise. Assuming a break-in, he rushed to the kitchen with his gun and began firing. All his shots missed but one, which struck his wife in the face.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/01/defensive-gun-ownership-myth-114262#ixzz3yDKLsyb6 "​

Americans use guns 1.5 million times a year to stop violent criminal attack and save lives...according to bill clinton and barak obama....

Gun accidents in 2013 from the CDC table 10.... 505


Which number is bigger......can you tell....? You don't seem to be able to........another child like trait of the anti gun loons...

1,500,000 vs. 505

"
A recent study published in The Journal of Preventive Medicine offers new support for the argument that owning a gun does not make you safer. The study, led by David Hemenway, Ph.D., of the Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health, examines data from the National Crime Victimization Survey — an annual survey of 90,000 households — and shows not only that so-called “defensive gun use” (DGU) rarely protects a person from harm, but also that such incidents are much more rare than gun advocates claim.

In response to GVA data, pro-gun advocates have been forced to argue that the reason researchers can barely find .064 percent of the 2.5 million DGUs a year claimed by Kleck and Gertz is because virtually nobody reports their defensive gun use to the police. This argument is problematic. For starters, it would seem to imply that the vast majority of people using guns in self-defense are irresponsible citizens who use their firearm to ward off an attempted crime, and then, perhaps uncertain about the legality of their action, are leery of interacting with the police. It would also imply that while these citizens ostensibly stopped a crime serious enough to justify brandishing a firearm, they aren’t at all concerned about informing the police about a criminal who remains on the street.

Even more problematically, Kleck’s own survey indicates that police knew about 64% of DGUs. And other studies come to similar numbers. So if Kleck’s study is correct, we should find nearly 1 million police and media reports each year, and more than 25,000 if the NCVS is correct. The fact that we’re not finding empirical support of defensive gun uses demonstrates unequivocally that such estimates are wrong. It is instructive that gun advocates cling to Kleck’s figure that guns are used “2.5 million times a year”, insisting that his survey somehow got that number exactly right, but conveniently overlook the figure from the very same survey on police reports, which is demonstrably off by a factor of nearly 1000."
More Holes in the Defensive Gun Use Myth: New Study Finds DGU is Ineffective and Rare

The National Crime Victimization Survey is not a gun study...it does not mention guns in the study and does not ask questions about defensive gun use...of course that is the only study that hemenway uses to dispute Kleck.

 

[2aguy]

21,000 are suicide with a gun......

19,974 are suicide without a gun.....

8,124 illegal use of a gun mostly by career criminals murdering other career criminals....


And then you have 1.5 million defensive uses of guns by normal gun owning Americans who actually stop violent criminal attacks and save lives...according to bill clinton....

"What do these and so many other cases have in common? They are the byproduct of a tragic myth: that millions of gun owners successfully use their firearms to defend themselves and their families from criminals. Despite having nearly no academic support in public health literature, this myth is the single largest motivation behind gun ownership. It traces its origin to a two-decade-old series of surveys that, despite being thoroughly repudiated at the time, persists in influencing personal safety decisions and public policy throughout the United States.
In 1992, Gary Kleck and Marc Getz, criminologists at Florida State University, conducted a random digit-dial survey to establish the annual number of defensive gun uses in the United States. They surveyed 5,000 individuals, asking them if they had used a firearm in self-defense in the past year and, if so, for what reason and to what effect. Sixty-six incidences of defensive gun use were reported from the sample. The researchers then extrapolated their findings to the entire U.S. population, resulting in an estimate of between 1 million and 2.5 million defensive gun uses per year.
........
Kleck himself admitted in 1997, in response to criticism of his survey, that 36 to 64 percent of the defensive gun uses reported in the survey were likely illegal—meaning the firearm was used to intimidate or harm another person rather than for legitimate self-defense. His conjecture was confirmed by a Harvard study showing that 51 percent of defensive gun uses in a large survey were illegal according to a panel of 5 judges. This was even after the judges were told to take the respondents at their word, deliberately ignoring the tendency of respondents to portray themselves in a positive light.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/01/defensive-gun-ownership-myth-114262#ixzz3yDF1ARo6 "​

And here you have the very sort of Person that Dr. Kleck was talking about...a woman who used to carry a gun, illegally, for self defense, and then, when she was in a gun free zone and a mass shooter murdered her parents...she didn't have her gun because she decided to comply with the laws of Texas at that time and left her gun in her car..........

Her testimony on this specific point starts at the 2 minute mark........

Dr. Suzanah Gratia Hupp...survivor of the Luby's Cafe mass shooting....

Shooting Survivor Fights For Concealed Weapons

another quicker link to her testimony...she also points out how little time it takes to change out a Magazine....she actually lived through a mass shooting...she knows...

"
In the early hours of Nov. 2, 2013, in Dearborn Heights, Michigan, a pounding at the door startled Theodore Wafer from his slumber. Unable to find his cell phone to call the police, he grabbed the shotgun he kept loaded in his closet. Wafer opened the door and, spotting a dark figure behind the screen, fired a single blast at the supposed intruder. The shot killed a 19-year-old girl who was knocking to ask for help after a car accident.

Shortly after midnight on June 5, 2014, two friends left a party briefly. Upon returning they accidently knocked on the wrong door. Believing burglars were breaking in, the frightened homeowner called the police, grabbed his gun and fired a single round, hitting one of the confused party-goers in the chest.

On Sept. 21, 2014, Eusebio Christian was awakened by a noise. Assuming a break-in, he rushed to the kitchen with his gun and began firing. All his shots missed but one, which struck his wife in the face.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/01/defensive-gun-ownership-myth-114262#ixzz3yDKLsyb6 "​

Americans use guns 1.5 million times a year to stop violent criminal attack and save lives...according to bill clinton and barak obama....

Gun accidents in 2013 from the CDC table 10.... 505


Which number is bigger......can you tell....? You don't seem to be able to........another child like trait of the anti gun loons...

1,500,000 vs. 505

"
A recent study published in The Journal of Preventive Medicine offers new support for the argument that owning a gun does not make you safer. The study, led by David Hemenway, Ph.D., of the Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health, examines data from the National Crime Victimization Survey — an annual survey of 90,000 households — and shows not only that so-called “defensive gun use” (DGU) rarely protects a person from harm, but also that such incidents are much more rare than gun advocates claim.

In response to GVA data, pro-gun advocates have been forced to argue that the reason researchers can barely find .064 percent of the 2.5 million DGUs a year claimed by Kleck and Gertz is because virtually nobody reports their defensive gun use to the police. This argument is problematic. For starters, it would seem to imply that the vast majority of people using guns in self-defense are irresponsible citizens who use their firearm to ward off an attempted crime, and then, perhaps uncertain about the legality of their action, are leery of interacting with the police. It would also imply that while these citizens ostensibly stopped a crime serious enough to justify brandishing a firearm, they aren’t at all concerned about informing the police about a criminal who remains on the street.

Even more problematically, Kleck’s own survey indicates that police knew about 64% of DGUs. And other studies come to similar numbers. So if Kleck’s study is correct, we should find nearly 1 million police and media reports each year, and more than 25,000 if the NCVS is correct. The fact that we’re not finding empirical support of defensive gun uses demonstrates unequivocally that such estimates are wrong. It is instructive that gun advocates cling to Kleck’s figure that guns are used “2.5 million times a year”, insisting that his survey somehow got that number exactly right, but conveniently overlook the figure from the very same survey on police reports, which is demonstrably off by a factor of nearly 1000."
More Holes in the Defensive Gun Use Myth: New Study Finds DGU is Ineffective and Rare

So...the anti gunners site the NCVS with all of these problems....

The Daily Kos on why the NCVS is wrong...
Defensive Gun Use Part III - The National Crime Victimization Study

The disadvantages of this study design are:
1) the study is not specifically designed to measure DGUs;

2) the study does not track every type of crime;

3) the study does not ask every interviewee about episodes of DGU;

4) interviewees are not specifically asked about defending themselves with a gun;

5) follow-up studies have demonstrated that the incidence of assault (and especially assaults by relatives and non-strangers) in the NCVS is under-reported, and if crime is under-reported then so too will DGUs be under-reported;

6) respondents’ anonymity is not preserved, and some interviewees may therefore feel wary or unwilling to discuss gun use with federal government employees.

 

[idb]

"A 29-year-old East Pulaski Volunteer Fire Department firefighter was shot and killed after being mistaken for an intruder while responding to assist with a medical emergency Friday morning."
Homeowner charged with manslaughter in death of Sherwood firefighter

 

[2aguy]

21,000 are suicide with a gun......

19,974 are suicide without a gun.....

8,124 illegal use of a gun mostly by career criminals murdering other career criminals....


And then you have 1.5 million defensive uses of guns by normal gun owning Americans who actually stop violent criminal attacks and save lives...according to bill clinton....

"What do these and so many other cases have in common? They are the byproduct of a tragic myth: that millions of gun owners successfully use their firearms to defend themselves and their families from criminals. Despite having nearly no academic support in public health literature, this myth is the single largest motivation behind gun ownership. It traces its origin to a two-decade-old series of surveys that, despite being thoroughly repudiated at the time, persists in influencing personal safety decisions and public policy throughout the United States.
In 1992, Gary Kleck and Marc Getz, criminologists at Florida State University, conducted a random digit-dial survey to establish the annual number of defensive gun uses in the United States. They surveyed 5,000 individuals, asking them if they had used a firearm in self-defense in the past year and, if so, for what reason and to what effect. Sixty-six incidences of defensive gun use were reported from the sample. The researchers then extrapolated their findings to the entire U.S. population, resulting in an estimate of between 1 million and 2.5 million defensive gun uses per year.
........
Kleck himself admitted in 1997, in response to criticism of his survey, that 36 to 64 percent of the defensive gun uses reported in the survey were likely illegal—meaning the firearm was used to intimidate or harm another person rather than for legitimate self-defense. His conjecture was confirmed by a Harvard study showing that 51 percent of defensive gun uses in a large survey were illegal according to a panel of 5 judges. This was even after the judges were told to take the respondents at their word, deliberately ignoring the tendency of respondents to portray themselves in a positive light.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/01/defensive-gun-ownership-myth-114262#ixzz3yDF1ARo6 "​

And here you have the very sort of Person that Dr. Kleck was talking about...a woman who used to carry a gun, illegally, for self defense, and then, when she was in a gun free zone and a mass shooter murdered her parents...she didn't have her gun because she decided to comply with the laws of Texas at that time and left her gun in her car..........

Her testimony on this specific point starts at the 2 minute mark........

Dr. Suzanah Gratia Hupp...survivor of the Luby's Cafe mass shooting....

Shooting Survivor Fights For Concealed Weapons

another quicker link to her testimony...she also points out how little time it takes to change out a Magazine....she actually lived through a mass shooting...she knows...

"
In the early hours of Nov. 2, 2013, in Dearborn Heights, Michigan, a pounding at the door startled Theodore Wafer from his slumber. Unable to find his cell phone to call the police, he grabbed the shotgun he kept loaded in his closet. Wafer opened the door and, spotting a dark figure behind the screen, fired a single blast at the supposed intruder. The shot killed a 19-year-old girl who was knocking to ask for help after a car accident.

Shortly after midnight on June 5, 2014, two friends left a party briefly. Upon returning they accidently knocked on the wrong door. Believing burglars were breaking in, the frightened homeowner called the police, grabbed his gun and fired a single round, hitting one of the confused party-goers in the chest.

On Sept. 21, 2014, Eusebio Christian was awakened by a noise. Assuming a break-in, he rushed to the kitchen with his gun and began firing. All his shots missed but one, which struck his wife in the face.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/01/defensive-gun-ownership-myth-114262#ixzz3yDKLsyb6 "​

Americans use guns 1.5 million times a year to stop violent criminal attack and save lives...according to bill clinton and barak obama....

Gun accidents in 2013 from the CDC table 10.... 505


Which number is bigger......can you tell....? You don't seem to be able to........another child like trait of the anti gun loons...

1,500,000 vs. 505

"
A recent study published in The Journal of Preventive Medicine offers new support for the argument that owning a gun does not make you safer. The study, led by David Hemenway, Ph.D., of the Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health, examines data from the National Crime Victimization Survey — an annual survey of 90,000 households — and shows not only that so-called “defensive gun use” (DGU) rarely protects a person from harm, but also that such incidents are much more rare than gun advocates claim.

In response to GVA data, pro-gun advocates have been forced to argue that the reason researchers can barely find .064 percent of the 2.5 million DGUs a year claimed by Kleck and Gertz is because virtually nobody reports their defensive gun use to the police. This argument is problematic. For starters, it would seem to imply that the vast majority of people using guns in self-defense are irresponsible citizens who use their firearm to ward off an attempted crime, and then, perhaps uncertain about the legality of their action, are leery of interacting with the police. It would also imply that while these citizens ostensibly stopped a crime serious enough to justify brandishing a firearm, they aren’t at all concerned about informing the police about a criminal who remains on the street.

Even more problematically, Kleck’s own survey indicates that police knew about 64% of DGUs. And other studies come to similar numbers. So if Kleck’s study is correct, we should find nearly 1 million police and media reports each year, and more than 25,000 if the NCVS is correct. The fact that we’re not finding empirical support of defensive gun uses demonstrates unequivocally that such estimates are wrong. It is instructive that gun advocates cling to Kleck’s figure that guns are used “2.5 million times a year”, insisting that his survey somehow got that number exactly right, but conveniently overlook the figure from the very same survey on police reports, which is demonstrably off by a factor of nearly 1000."
More Holes in the Defensive Gun Use Myth: New Study Finds DGU is Ineffective and Rare

hemenway has long been shown to be a hack....

http://reason.com/archives/1997/04/01/public-health-pot-shots

this article goes at kellerman extensively and his crap research.....and here is some work on who actually kills people...


These and other studies funded by the CDC focus on the presence or absence of guns, rather than the characteristics of the people who use them. Indeed, the CDC's Rosenberg claims in the journalEducational Horizons that murderers are "ourselves--ordinary citizens, professionals, even health care workers": people who kill only because a gun happens to be available. Yet if there is one fact that has been incontestably established by homicide studies, it's that murderers are not ordinary gun owners but extreme aberrants whose life histories include drug abuse, serious accidents, felonies, and irrational violence.

Unlike "ourselves," roughly 90 percent of adult murderers have significant criminal records, averaging an adult criminal career of six or more years with four major felonies.
Access to juvenile records would almost certainly show that the criminal careers of murderers stretch back into their adolescence. In Murder in America (1994), the criminologists Ronald W. Holmes and Stephen T. Holmes report that murderers generally "have histories of committing personal violence in childhood, against other children, siblings, and small animals." Murderers who don't have criminal records usually have histories of psychiatric treatment or domestic violence that did not lead to arrest.
Contrary to the impression fostered by Rosenberg and other opponents of gun ownership, the term "acquaintance homicide" does not mean killings that stem from ordinary family or neighborhood arguments. Typical acquaintance homicides include: an abusive man eventually killing a woman he has repeatedly assaulted; a drug user killing a dealer (or vice versa) in a robbery attempt; and gang members, drug dealers, and other criminals killing each other for reasons of economic rivalry or personal pique.

According to a 1993 article in the Journal of Trauma, 80 percent of murders in Washington, D.C., are related to the drug trade, while "84% of [Philadelphia murder] victims in 1990 had antemortem drug use or criminal history."
A 1994 article in The New England Journal of Medicinereported that 71 percent of Los Angeles children and adolescents injured in drive-by shootings "were documented members of violent street gangs." And University of North Carolina-Charlotte criminal justice scholars Richard Lumb and Paul C. Friday report that 71 percent of adult gunshot wound victims in Charlotte have criminal records.

 

[2aguy]

21,000 are suicide with a gun......

19,974 are suicide without a gun.....

8,124 illegal use of a gun mostly by career criminals murdering other career criminals....


And then you have 1.5 million defensive uses of guns by normal gun owning Americans who actually stop violent criminal attacks and save lives...according to bill clinton....

"What do these and so many other cases have in common? They are the byproduct of a tragic myth: that millions of gun owners successfully use their firearms to defend themselves and their families from criminals. Despite having nearly no academic support in public health literature, this myth is the single largest motivation behind gun ownership. It traces its origin to a two-decade-old series of surveys that, despite being thoroughly repudiated at the time, persists in influencing personal safety decisions and public policy throughout the United States.
In 1992, Gary Kleck and Marc Getz, criminologists at Florida State University, conducted a random digit-dial survey to establish the annual number of defensive gun uses in the United States. They surveyed 5,000 individuals, asking them if they had used a firearm in self-defense in the past year and, if so, for what reason and to what effect. Sixty-six incidences of defensive gun use were reported from the sample. The researchers then extrapolated their findings to the entire U.S. population, resulting in an estimate of between 1 million and 2.5 million defensive gun uses per year.
........
Kleck himself admitted in 1997, in response to criticism of his survey, that 36 to 64 percent of the defensive gun uses reported in the survey were likely illegal—meaning the firearm was used to intimidate or harm another person rather than for legitimate self-defense. His conjecture was confirmed by a Harvard study showing that 51 percent of defensive gun uses in a large survey were illegal according to a panel of 5 judges. This was even after the judges were told to take the respondents at their word, deliberately ignoring the tendency of respondents to portray themselves in a positive light.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/01/defensive-gun-ownership-myth-114262#ixzz3yDF1ARo6 "​

And here you have the very sort of Person that Dr. Kleck was talking about...a woman who used to carry a gun, illegally, for self defense, and then, when she was in a gun free zone and a mass shooter murdered her parents...she didn't have her gun because she decided to comply with the laws of Texas at that time and left her gun in her car..........

Her testimony on this specific point starts at the 2 minute mark........

Dr. Suzanah Gratia Hupp...survivor of the Luby's Cafe mass shooting....

Shooting Survivor Fights For Concealed Weapons

another quicker link to her testimony...she also points out how little time it takes to change out a Magazine....she actually lived through a mass shooting...she knows...

"
In the early hours of Nov. 2, 2013, in Dearborn Heights, Michigan, a pounding at the door startled Theodore Wafer from his slumber. Unable to find his cell phone to call the police, he grabbed the shotgun he kept loaded in his closet. Wafer opened the door and, spotting a dark figure behind the screen, fired a single blast at the supposed intruder. The shot killed a 19-year-old girl who was knocking to ask for help after a car accident.

Shortly after midnight on June 5, 2014, two friends left a party briefly. Upon returning they accidently knocked on the wrong door. Believing burglars were breaking in, the frightened homeowner called the police, grabbed his gun and fired a single round, hitting one of the confused party-goers in the chest.

On Sept. 21, 2014, Eusebio Christian was awakened by a noise. Assuming a break-in, he rushed to the kitchen with his gun and began firing. All his shots missed but one, which struck his wife in the face.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/01/defensive-gun-ownership-myth-114262#ixzz3yDKLsyb6 "​

Americans use guns 1.5 million times a year to stop violent criminal attack and save lives...according to bill clinton and barak obama....

Gun accidents in 2013 from the CDC table 10.... 505


Which number is bigger......can you tell....? You don't seem to be able to........another child like trait of the anti gun loons...

1,500,000 vs. 505

"
A recent study published in The Journal of Preventive Medicine offers new support for the argument that owning a gun does not make you safer. The study, led by David Hemenway, Ph.D., of the Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health, examines data from the National Crime Victimization Survey — an annual survey of 90,000 households — and shows not only that so-called “defensive gun use” (DGU) rarely protects a person from harm, but also that such incidents are much more rare than gun advocates claim.

In response to GVA data, pro-gun advocates have been forced to argue that the reason researchers can barely find .064 percent of the 2.5 million DGUs a year claimed by Kleck and Gertz is because virtually nobody reports their defensive gun use to the police. This argument is problematic. For starters, it would seem to imply that the vast majority of people using guns in self-defense are irresponsible citizens who use their firearm to ward off an attempted crime, and then, perhaps uncertain about the legality of their action, are leery of interacting with the police. It would also imply that while these citizens ostensibly stopped a crime serious enough to justify brandishing a firearm, they aren’t at all concerned about informing the police about a criminal who remains on the street.

Even more problematically, Kleck’s own survey indicates that police knew about 64% of DGUs. And other studies come to similar numbers. So if Kleck’s study is correct, we should find nearly 1 million police and media reports each year, and more than 25,000 if the NCVS is correct. The fact that we’re not finding empirical support of defensive gun uses demonstrates unequivocally that such estimates are wrong. It is instructive that gun advocates cling to Kleck’s figure that guns are used “2.5 million times a year”, insisting that his survey somehow got that number exactly right, but conveniently overlook the figure from the very same survey on police reports, which is demonstrably off by a factor of nearly 1000."
More Holes in the Defensive Gun Use Myth: New Study Finds DGU is Ineffective and Rare

And notice.....Kleck isn't the only study that found defensive gun use in the millions...of course hemenway, the hack, never mentions all of the other research, 40 years of it and research supported by bill clinton and obama.....

I just averaged the studies......which were conducted by different researchers, from both private and public researchers, over a period of 40 years looking specifically at guns and self defense....the name of the researcher is first, then the year then the number of times they determined guns were used for self defense......notice how many of them there are and how many of them were done by gun grabbers like the clinton Justice Dept. and the obama CDC

And these aren't all of the studies either...there are more...and they support the ones below.....

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....
GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops, military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. http://www.springerlink.com/content/rngn3274255v6j67/

-------------------------------------------
Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

*****************************************

If you take the studies from that Kleck cites in his paper, 16 of them....and you only average the ones that exclude military and police shootings..the average becomes 2 million...I use those studies because I have the details on them...and they are still 10 studies (including Kleck's)....

 

[idb]

"A 24-year-old woman is in critical condition after she was shot while driving north on Reading Road in Bond Hill Thursday evening.
Cincinnati Police are on the scene investigating the shooting and said the woman was a victim of a "road rage incident gone bad."
At 5:40 p.m., police responded to reports of shots fired and an auto accident on Reading Road at the Norwood Lateral.
The car was shot at six to nine times by at least one individual in a gray sedan, also driving north on Reading Road, according to Cincinnati Police Sgt. Jamel Smith."
Woman shot in road rage incident

 

[idb]

A fitting finale to this game I think...

"Planning for a cross-country march to “restore America” — which is related to the Oregon nature preserve standoff — appears to have hit a snag when one of its organizers shot the other co-founder Monday afternoon during a drunken argument over a gun.
Sheriff’s deputies in Grayson County, Texas, have not released details about the fatal shooting, but social media posts by right-wing “patriots” associated with militants occupying an Oregon nature preserve identified the victim and shooter as the organizers of the Paul Revere 2016 Final March To Restore America.

“Dear friends it’s my dearest regrets to have to share this heart breaking new (sic) with you tonight. That OUR fellow patriot and brother Charles Carter is no longer with us. He gone to be with Jesus. Today killed by a fellow patriot Vincent Smith. Who was suppose (sic) to be his brother in arms and friend,” posted online radio host Keith Williams, who described himself as the victim’s next of kin.
Bill Williamson, another right-wing “patriot” associated with the Oregon militants, said in a Facebook post that Smith shot Carter in a drunken dispute over a gun.

Williamson, an organizer of the failed 2 Million Bikers 2 DC rally, said he had been communicating with Carter through Facebook messages minutes before his friend attacked Smith.
He said Carter was intoxicated and pulled Smith’s gun from its holster, but Smith drew a “spare gun” and shot his friend in the head."
Anti-Obama march organizer fatally shoots right-wing militant buddy in drunken dispute over gun

 

[2aguy]

21,000 are suicide with a gun......

19,974 are suicide without a gun.....

8,124 illegal use of a gun mostly by career criminals murdering other career criminals....


And then you have 1.5 million defensive uses of guns by normal gun owning Americans who actually stop violent criminal attacks and save lives...according to bill clinton....

"What do these and so many other cases have in common? They are the byproduct of a tragic myth: that millions of gun owners successfully use their firearms to defend themselves and their families from criminals. Despite having nearly no academic support in public health literature, this myth is the single largest motivation behind gun ownership. It traces its origin to a two-decade-old series of surveys that, despite being thoroughly repudiated at the time, persists in influencing personal safety decisions and public policy throughout the United States.
In 1992, Gary Kleck and Marc Getz, criminologists at Florida State University, conducted a random digit-dial survey to establish the annual number of defensive gun uses in the United States. They surveyed 5,000 individuals, asking them if they had used a firearm in self-defense in the past year and, if so, for what reason and to what effect. Sixty-six incidences of defensive gun use were reported from the sample. The researchers then extrapolated their findings to the entire U.S. population, resulting in an estimate of between 1 million and 2.5 million defensive gun uses per year.
........
Kleck himself admitted in 1997, in response to criticism of his survey, that 36 to 64 percent of the defensive gun uses reported in the survey were likely illegal—meaning the firearm was used to intimidate or harm another person rather than for legitimate self-defense. His conjecture was confirmed by a Harvard study showing that 51 percent of defensive gun uses in a large survey were illegal according to a panel of 5 judges. This was even after the judges were told to take the respondents at their word, deliberately ignoring the tendency of respondents to portray themselves in a positive light.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/01/defensive-gun-ownership-myth-114262#ixzz3yDF1ARo6 "​

And here you have the very sort of Person that Dr. Kleck was talking about...a woman who used to carry a gun, illegally, for self defense, and then, when she was in a gun free zone and a mass shooter murdered her parents...she didn't have her gun because she decided to comply with the laws of Texas at that time and left her gun in her car..........

Her testimony on this specific point starts at the 2 minute mark........

Dr. Suzanah Gratia Hupp...survivor of the Luby's Cafe mass shooting....

Shooting Survivor Fights For Concealed Weapons

another quicker link to her testimony...she also points out how little time it takes to change out a Magazine....she actually lived through a mass shooting...she knows...

"
In the early hours of Nov. 2, 2013, in Dearborn Heights, Michigan, a pounding at the door startled Theodore Wafer from his slumber. Unable to find his cell phone to call the police, he grabbed the shotgun he kept loaded in his closet. Wafer opened the door and, spotting a dark figure behind the screen, fired a single blast at the supposed intruder. The shot killed a 19-year-old girl who was knocking to ask for help after a car accident.

Shortly after midnight on June 5, 2014, two friends left a party briefly. Upon returning they accidently knocked on the wrong door. Believing burglars were breaking in, the frightened homeowner called the police, grabbed his gun and fired a single round, hitting one of the confused party-goers in the chest.

On Sept. 21, 2014, Eusebio Christian was awakened by a noise. Assuming a break-in, he rushed to the kitchen with his gun and began firing. All his shots missed but one, which struck his wife in the face.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/01/defensive-gun-ownership-myth-114262#ixzz3yDKLsyb6 "​

Americans use guns 1.5 million times a year to stop violent criminal attack and save lives...according to bill clinton and barak obama....

Gun accidents in 2013 from the CDC table 10.... 505


Which number is bigger......can you tell....? You don't seem to be able to........another child like trait of the anti gun loons...

1,500,000 vs. 505

"
A recent study published in The Journal of Preventive Medicine offers new support for the argument that owning a gun does not make you safer. The study, led by David Hemenway, Ph.D., of the Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health, examines data from the National Crime Victimization Survey — an annual survey of 90,000 households — and shows not only that so-called “defensive gun use” (DGU) rarely protects a person from harm, but also that such incidents are much more rare than gun advocates claim.

In response to GVA data, pro-gun advocates have been forced to argue that the reason researchers can barely find .064 percent of the 2.5 million DGUs a year claimed by Kleck and Gertz is because virtually nobody reports their defensive gun use to the police. This argument is problematic. For starters, it would seem to imply that the vast majority of people using guns in self-defense are irresponsible citizens who use their firearm to ward off an attempted crime, and then, perhaps uncertain about the legality of their action, are leery of interacting with the police. It would also imply that while these citizens ostensibly stopped a crime serious enough to justify brandishing a firearm, they aren’t at all concerned about informing the police about a criminal who remains on the street.

Even more problematically, Kleck’s own survey indicates that police knew about 64% of DGUs. And other studies come to similar numbers. So if Kleck’s study is correct, we should find nearly 1 million police and media reports each year, and more than 25,000 if the NCVS is correct. The fact that we’re not finding empirical support of defensive gun uses demonstrates unequivocally that such estimates are wrong. It is instructive that gun advocates cling to Kleck’s figure that guns are used “2.5 million times a year”, insisting that his survey somehow got that number exactly right, but conveniently overlook the figure from the very same survey on police reports, which is demonstrably off by a factor of nearly 1000."
More Holes in the Defensive Gun Use Myth: New Study Finds DGU is Ineffective and Rare

and more reasons why the National Crime Victimization Survey is crap......

http://www.andrew.cmu.edu/course/79-331/measures.html

The NCVS undercounts rape and sex assault moved here...

http://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/doublex/2013/11/national_crime_victimization_survey_a_new_report_finds_that_the_justice.html

And another reason to not use the NCVS...they can't even count those things they are actually studying correctly, let alone something like guns that they aren't actually studying...

National Crime Victimization Survey A new report finds that the Justice Department has been undercounting instances of rape and sexual assault.

How helpful, then, that the Justice Department asked the National Research Council (part of the National Academies, which also includes the National Academy of Sciences and the Institute of Medicine) to study how successfully the federal government measures rape. The answer has just arrived, in a report out Tuesday with the headline from the press release: “The National Crime Victimization Survey Is Likely Undercounting Rape and Sexual Assault.” We’re not talking about small fractions—we’re talking about the kind of potentially massive underestimate that the military and the Justice Department have warned about for years—and that could be throwing a wrench into the effort to do the most effective type of rape prevention.....

But here are the flaws that call the nice-sounding stats into doubt: The NCVS is designed to measure all kinds of crime victimization. The questions it poses about sexual violence are embedded among questions that ask about lots of other types of crime. For example:

So......the NCVS can't get an accurate account of what it is researching....how do we know this...the numbers are off...

There is, in fact, an existing survey that has many of the attributes the NCVS currently lacks. It’s administered by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, and it’s called the National Intimate Partner and Sexual Violence Survey. (NISVS is the acronym. Apologies for the alphabet soup.)

NISVS “represents the public health perspective,” as Tuesday’s report puts it, and it asks questions about specific behavior, including whether the survey-taker was unable to consent to sex because he or she had bee

But here’s the startling direct comparison between the two measures: NISVS counted 1.27 million total sexual acts of forced penetration for women over the past year (including completed, attempted, and alcohol or drug facilitated).

NCVS counted only 188,380 for rape and sexual assault. And the FBI, which collects its data from local law enforcement, and so only counts rapes and attempted rapes that have been reported as crimes, totaled only 85,593 for 2010.

So no....the NCVS is not a tool to understand the use of guns for self defense..........

And the most obvious point.......they undercount rape and sexual assault by a vast number compared to an actual study that researches rape and sexual assault....using the same method the anti gunners claim for the number of gun defenses....

But here’s the startling direct comparison between the two measures: NISVS counted 1.27 million total sexual acts of forced penetration for women over the past year (including completed, attempted, and alcohol or drug facilitated).

NCVS counted only 188,380 for rape and sexual assault.

The Daily Kos on why the NCVS is wrong...

 

[2aguy]

A fitting finale to this game I think...

"Planning for a cross-country march to “restore America” — which is related to the Oregon nature preserve standoff — appears to have hit a snag when one of its organizers shot the other co-founder Monday afternoon during a drunken argument over a gun.
Sheriff’s deputies in Grayson County, Texas, have not released details about the fatal shooting, but social media posts by right-wing “patriots” associated with militants occupying an Oregon nature preserve identified the victim and shooter as the organizers of the Paul Revere 2016 Final March To Restore America.

“Dear friends it’s my dearest regrets to have to share this heart breaking new (sic) with you tonight. That OUR fellow patriot and brother Charles Carter is no longer with us. He gone to be with Jesus. Today killed by a fellow patriot Vincent Smith. Who was suppose (sic) to be his brother in arms and friend,” posted online radio host Keith Williams, who described himself as the victim’s next of kin.
Bill Williamson, another right-wing “patriot” associated with the Oregon militants, said in a Facebook post that Smith shot Carter in a drunken dispute over a gun.

Williamson, an organizer of the failed 2 Million Bikers 2 DC rally, said he had been communicating with Carter through Facebook messages minutes before his friend attacked Smith.
He said Carter was intoxicated and pulled Smith’s gun from its holster, but Smith drew a “spare gun” and shot his friend in the head."
Anti-Obama march organizer fatally shoots right-wing militant buddy in drunken dispute over gun

and the truth.....

Americans use guns 1.5 million times a year to stop violent crime and to save lives...according to bill clinton.

there were 8,124 gun murders in the United States in 2014 according to FBI table 8. the majority of those gun murders were by career violent criminals murdering other career violent criminals...not normal gun owners...

so

1,500,000 defensive gun uses to stop violent crime and save lives.

vs.

8,124 gun murders, guns used illegally, mainly by violent criminals who cannot legally own or carry guns...


1,500,000 vs. 8,124

Actual statistics...the truth, the facts and the reality....

which number is bigger?