Supporting Kurdish independence

[Saigon]

I notice quite a few posters here support Kurdish independence, but I hear very little talk about the Kurdish PKK, the largest armed Kurdish independence movement.

Do you support them, or do you consider them terrorists?

 

[ima]

Cheese kurds. YUM!!!!!

 

[mememe]

I notice quite a few posters here support Kurdish independence, but I hear very little talk about the Kurdish PKK, the largest armed Kurdish independence movement.

Do you support them, or do you consider them terrorists?

If they commit terrorist acts against UNARMED CIVILIAN POPULATION, they are terrorists; if they don't -- they are freedom fighters.

 

[High_Gravity]

The Kurds are the only people in that region with any kind of sense so I support their independence 100%.

 

[Saigon]

The Kurds are the only people in that region with any kind of sense so I support their independence 100%.

I support Kurdish independence as well, although why you think they have more sense than any other people, I have no idea.

Turkey is a fully functioning state with a rising standard of living - and also includes a giant swathe of what would be Kurdistan, including the capital. Why would a Kurdish state thus be necessarily better or worse off than a Turkish one?

 

[ima]

Kurds are almost as irrelevant as Finns. Only without the incessant whining.

 

[hipeter924]

I notice quite a few posters here support Kurdish independence, but I hear very little talk about the Kurdish PKK, the largest armed Kurdish independence movement.

Do you support them, or do you consider them terrorists?

The PKK are terrorists and I certainly don't support them, and I separate them from other political movements; which seek greater self autonomy and respect of human rights. But the PKK are the direct result of the Turkish governments failure to deliver on their promises, and to respect human rights i.e. tread on a group enough with a hard boot Orwellian style, and they are bound to revolt in a violent fashion. If you watch some documentaries these days, Kurds are having children and raising them as soldiers for the PKK; and they openly speak about how they have so many children so that the Turkish government can never wipe them out like the Armenians and so on (or repeat Dersim).

 

[Saigon]

Hipeter -

I totally agree. I abhor a lot of PKK's tactics, and am totally opposed to their use of rape, kidnapping etc, etc, but at the same time their use of violence needs to be seen in the context of Turkish violence against them.

In this sense I think the Kurdish and Palestinian causes have much in common in that both have a very strong historical cause, but at times use the worst possible tactics to draw attention to that cause.

 

[hipeter924]

Hipeter -

I totally agree. I abhor a lot of PKK's tactics, and am totally opposed to their use of rape, kidnapping etc, etc, but at the same time their use of violence needs to be seen in the context of Turkish violence against them.

In this sense I think the Kurdish and Palestinian causes have much in common in that both have a very strong historical cause, but at times use the worst possible tactics to draw attention to that cause.

One exclusively engages in suicide bombings (and rocket attacks); while the other attacks Turkish troops and suicide bombs when it can. In Israel, 'Palestine' and Turkey radical religious and extreme nationalist groups have a strong say in government; which undermines efforts for peace (or resolution).

 

[ima]

Hipeter -

I totally agree. I abhor a lot of PKK's tactics, and am totally opposed to their use of rape, kidnapping etc, etc, but at the same time their use of violence needs to be seen in the context of Turkish violence against them.

In this sense I think the Kurdish and Palestinian causes have much in common in that both have a very strong historical cause, but at times use the worst possible tactics to draw attention to that cause.

One exclusively engages in suicide bombings (and rocket attacks); while the other attacks Turkish troops and suicide bombs when it can. In Israel, 'Palestine' and Turkey radical religious and extreme nationalist groups have a strong say in government; which undermines efforts for peace (or resolution).

What are the chances that Turkey gives up land for a Kurdish state? About the same chance the Pals have of ever getting anything back from Israel. Zero.

 

[Saigon]

One exclusively engages in suicide bombings (and rocket attacks); while the other attacks Turkish troops and suicide bombs when it can. In Israel, 'Palestine' and Turkey radical religious and extreme nationalist groups have a strong say in government; which undermines efforts for peace (or resolution).

Firstly, the PKK have often targetted civilians, use child soldiers, traffic drugs and use chemical weapons.

So let's not pretend they are any better than any Palestinian group.

Secondly, no Palestinian group "exclusively" engages in suicide bombings. Hezbollah, Fatah, Hamas and every other group I can think of all use political and peaceful methods, whilst also comitting acts of terror.

I don't see a big difference there.


Ima - I have you on ignore mode. I don't see or read your posts.

 

[ima]

One exclusively engages in suicide bombings (and rocket attacks); while the other attacks Turkish troops and suicide bombs when it can. In Israel, 'Palestine' and Turkey radical religious and extreme nationalist groups have a strong say in government; which undermines efforts for peace (or resolution).

Firstly, the PKK have often targetted civilians, use child soldiers, traffic drugs and use chemical weapons.

So let's not pretend they are any better than any Palestinian group.

Secondly, no Palestinian group "exclusively" engages in suicide bombings. Hezbollah, Fatah, Hamas and every other group I can think of all use political and peaceful methods, whilst also comitting acts of terror.

I don't see a big difference there.


Ima - I have you on ignore mode. I don't see or read your posts.

I don't see much difference between Finland and a bucket of shit.

 

[kirkuki]

Firstly, the PKK have often targetted civilians, , .

lets see what turks do

Turkey admits 35 civilian deaths near Kurdish village
BBC News - Turkey admits 35 civilian deaths near Kurdish village

Turkish airstrike kills 7 Iraqi civilians
THE DAILY STAR :: News :: Middle East :: Turkish airstrike kills 7 Iraqi civilians

and use chemical weapons

no you got it the wrong way around

turkey is using chemical weapons
heartbreaking scenes: Turkey kills Kurdish rebels by chemical weapons | warning 18+ - YouTube

An activist group allege Turkey used chemical weapons against Kurdish soldiers
Turkey is accused of using chemical weapons against Kurdish soldiers

use child soldiers

when his dad and older brothers are either killed or jailed he will seek revenge

traffic drugs

Germany: PKK has nothing to do with drug trafficking
Germany: PKK has nothing to do with drug trafficking

So let's not pretend they are any better than any Palestinian group.

they are bcoz pkk has never sent in rockets into civilian areas like hamas and hizbullah do

 

[Saigon]

Kirkuki -

I am sure everyone is aware that Turkey has used chemical weapons against the Kurds, but are you denying that the PKK has also used chemical weapons?

^ Two decoded cases: 1) August 27, 1996 mustard/sarin 2) (50 mg/l) of cyanide to three water tanks used by the Air Force.

Kurdistan Workers' Party - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[mememe]

Kurds are almost as irrelevant as Finns. Only without the incessant whining.

Kurds became a pawn in US game...

 

[ima]

Kurds are almost as irrelevant as Finns. Only without the incessant whining.

Kurds became a pawn in US game...

They can have northern Iraq...once we get our oil out of there!

 

[ekrem]

What are the chances that Turkey gives up land for a Kurdish state? About the same chance the Pals have of ever getting anything back from Israel. Zero.

Majority of Kurds in Turkey don't vote for single-issue seperatist parties.
AKP is by far the most popular party amongst Kurds in Turkey:

AKP's performance at General elections 2011:
51.57 % of votes in Eastern-Turkey
51.38 % of votes in South-Eastern Turkey

PKK affiliated party which joined the election got around 6.57% of total votes (2.8 milllion votes).
And in regional performance:
26.69 % of votes in Eastern-Turkey
32.37 % of votes South-Eastern Turkey
http://secim2011.ntvmsnbc.com/


Some of the elected Parliamentarians of Eastern and South-Eastern Turkey have made it into Cabinett.
Like Finance, Agriculture or Deleopment Minister.

 

[ekrem]

Total votes:
AKP: 21,399,082
CHP: 11,155,972
MHP: 5,585,513
BDP (seperatist party): 2,819,917

google.com.tr - Genel Seçim 2011

1 man/woman - 1 vote.
Reality sucks, and it was shown, that it doesn't matter what Internet-people support.

 

[Saigon]

Ekrem -

I agree that Turkey is genuinely democratic, but the majority do not have the right to crush minorities in any country.

The Turkish army have used chemical weapons, have kidnapped, tortured and killed civilians. Do you support this?

 

[ima]

What are the chances that Turkey gives up land for a Kurdish state? About the same chance the Pals have of ever getting anything back from Israel. Zero.

Majority of Kurds in Turkey don't vote for single-issue seperatist parties.
AKP is by far the most popular party amongst Kurds in Turkey:

AKP's performance at General elections 2011:
51.57 % of votes in Eastern-Turkey
51.38 % of votes in South-Eastern Turkey

PKK affiliated party which joined the election got around 6.57% of total votes (2.8 milllion votes).
And in regional performance:
26.69 % of votes in Eastern-Turkey
32.37 % of votes South-Eastern Turkey
http://secim2011.ntvmsnbc.com/


Some of the elected Parliamentarians of Eastern and South-Eastern Turkey have made it into Cabinett.
Like Finance, Agriculture or Deleopment Minister.

The Kurds could still call their Israeli friends and take a piece by force?