Syria jihadists impose Taliban-style music, smoking ban

[Phoenall]

That's a complicated thing to answer irosie.

Sufi beliefs and practices are all over the place.

There are all kinds of Sufis......both sunni and shia.....plus way out there crazy sects.

Some sufis sects are strict muslims and adhere to orthodox Islam..

While other sufi sects believe in drinking alcohol, dancing to music, and fornication. ..

What do you mean 'believe in' drinking alcohol, dancing to music.....?
Those aren't beliefs. They are social activities, and I see nothing wrong with them. Why do some Muslims see an issue with this ?

Eating a lobster dinner at a nice restaurant is a social activity and I see nothing wrong with that...and don't even get me started on canadian bacon, pepperoni and sausage pizza with extra cheese.

Why do some Jews see an issue with this?

Not just the Jews though is it, as the muslims feel the same way about pig meat. They far outnumber the Jews by a factor of 17,000,000 to 1.

personally I would see no problem in eating dry cured middle bacon, dry cured garlic and chilli pepper sausage or bratwurst and cheese on bread. You should try black pudding with the spices added, or pigs trotters and the delicacy of my area of the UK pressed pigs head in aspic or brawn as it is known. I cut my teeth on a roast pigs ear many decades ago, and had pork dripping sandwiches for lunch every Monday.

 

[Coyote]

There is plenty of bigotry, hatred and intolerance on both sides and over time I've found my views have shifted on some things. I AM "pro-Palestinian on a number issues - I strongly oppose the settlements, the lopsided permit process and inequities suffered by the Arab population, and the Price Tag movement - but I do not think Israel is the source of all that is wrong, I do think that Israel has a right to exist and defend it's people, and I do think that often, the Palestinians are their own worst enemy. However it's impossible to discuss these things because it seems that an extreme and inflexible position is demanded even when it is wrong.

Take for example stone throwing. At first, I didn't think that seriously about it. In the US - it's not that common. It can cause serious accidents and has - but it's not in the news much. Whether the intent is to kill or not, it still causes serious injury and death.

That brings us to two good examples and the question of why each side can't seem to condemn something that is clearly wrong - in *my view* - which is just that, my own view.

A stone throwing incident caused a near-fatal traffic accident that left a toddler seriously injured and probably permanently impaired. This was spread out over several threads and several months. While there was considerable condemnation of the incident - there was also considerable excuse-making and even blame on the parents. Some people said they had not business living in a "war-zone"; that the baby should have been in a seatbelt (seriously? She was strapped in baby seat that provided all the protection possible), that it was the parents fault for living there because they were breaking "international law". The thing is - they were just an ordinary family of ordinary people driving in an area considered safe. They were living there legally according the the rules of the government under which they lived. No one goes around thinking about whether or not they are violating some vague concept of "international law", they pay attention to the local laws that directly affect them. Governments deal with international law, not citizens. They did nothing to deserve what happened to them yet people were clutching at straws trying to find a way to blame them (ie - the seatbelt issue) rather than outright condemn it for what it was - a crime. It was similar with the murder of the Fogels. I strongly oppose the "settler" movement and their aims and think it's wrong. But - again, the Fogels were living there legally according to their government, they had done nothing to deserve being killed in the middle of the night and, frankly I can't begin to think of anything a small child can possibly do to deserve what was done. They were civilians and they were brutally murdered by someone who couldn't even man-up and look them in the eye. They did it while they were sleeping. Yet rather than condemnation, we see from some - excuses, justifications and even attempts to portray Mrs. Fogel as a terrorist.

As a pro-Palestinian, can't you simply say - ya, I'm a pro-Palestinian, but the murder of innocent civilians is just wrong and condemn it for what it is?

Likewise, consider the recent issue of incarceration of Palestinian children in outdoor enclosures mostly for the crime of stone-throwing. Couple that with well documented abuses in the arrest of children, the forceable isolation of them from adult family members, physically abusing them and threatening them into confessions without the presence of any legal help, and putting them into the military justice system? Instead of condemnation you get excuses, rationalizations, comments that the claims are all false and those who believe them are anti-semites or Israel haters, or worse - the kids are just going to grow up to be terrorists so they deserve that treatment - and eventually, deflections onto "why aren't you concerned with what your fellow muslims yada yada yada...".

When you look at how Palestinian children are treated and how Israeli children are treated for the exact same crimes - can't a Pro-Israeli person simply say, ya I'm pro-Israeli but this is just plain wrong?

 

[irosie91]

That's a complicated thing to answer irosie.

Sufi beliefs and practices are all over the place.

There are all kinds of Sufis......both sunni and shia.....plus way out there crazy sects.

Some sufis sects are strict muslims and adhere to orthodox Islam..

While other sufi sects believe in drinking alcohol, dancing to music, and fornication. ..

with a little effort----you could have come up with a reasonably cogent response

Well, it certainly was a reasonable and accurate response, and your question about a subject as complex as sufiism defies a cogent explanation.

it was a very biased and inciteful answer. In view of the fact that sufis are
PERSECUTED in some UMMAH LANDS------I had hoped for something nicer---but
I am delighted at the people who thought the answer good-------somethings never
change

 

[Coyote]

yes---it helps. Some people did not know. Of course music is very popular in
islamic societies----just as is drinking alcohol and the use of drugs but muslims are
not the only people who do things not considered "ideal" behavior in accordance with
religion. I think that one of the SIGNS that a religious revival is going on in
an islamic society is------MUSIC GETS ATTACKED. Lots of people do not know
that fact. I do have a question------how do the sufis view music?

That's a complicated thing to answer irosie.

Sufi beliefs and practices are all over the place.

There are all kinds of Sufis......both sunni and shia.....plus way out there crazy sects.

Some sufis sects are strict muslims and adhere to orthodox Islam..

While other sufi sects believe in drinking alcohol, dancing to music, and fornication. ..

Nothing wrong with drinking alcohol, in moderation as it is good for you. Dancing to music is also good for you as it tones up the body and strengthens the cardiovascular system. Fornication is enjoyable and also the start of everyone on this forum.
Only the stupid muslims would see problems with staying fit, healthy and producing more children.

It's really not limited to Muslims.

Certain Christian sects prohibit alcohal, smoking, music and dancing and fornication is always iffy (yet they still manage large families!)
Dancing ban - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Various groups in Christianity believe that dancing is either inherently sinful or that certain forms of dancing could lead to sinful thoughts or activities, and thus proscribe it either in general or during religious services. These include some adherents of Mennonite, Hutterite, Baptist, Seventh-day Adventist, and Holiness movement sects. Jehovah's Witnesses disfavor events where there might be sexually suggestive dancing or excessive drinking of alcohol.[3] Likewise, the Church of the Nazarene recommends against "All forms of dancing that detract from spiritual growth and break down proper moral inhibitions and reserve."[4] Many Christian churches determine doctrine locally and may be non-denominational, and these vary on their stances on social dancing.

 

[Phoenall]

What do you mean 'believe in' drinking alcohol, dancing to music.....?
Those aren't beliefs. They are social activities, and I see nothing wrong with them. Why do some Muslims see an issue with this ?

Eating a lobster dinner at a nice restaurant is a social activity and I see nothing wrong with that...and don't even get me started on canadian bacon, pepperoni and sausage pizza with extra cheese.

Why do some Jews see an issue with this?

It is not an issue, but if they observe the Kashrut laws those foods are not permitted.
Pigs and lobsters eat almost anything, they scavenge from the waste. Bottom feeders.
Muslims don't eat pork either, it is haram, but some do eat shellfish.

Living in a semi commercial fishing area I was told that the best catches always come the season after a shipwreck with the loss of all hands. Now with the safety equipment on board vessels there are less wrecks so the fishing is much harder. But the fishermen have found ways to get round this by using old nets to attract the prey. Attach any fish material like heads, bones and guts to the old net and sink it on a reef. This will attract the small animals and fish to feed on the rotting flesh and they then become trapped as well. Then the larger fish come in to eat and they become trapped. So every few months the nets rise up and catch more fish sink down and the fish come into feed.

Personally I don't eat any filter feeders like clams or mussels, not even oysters as they can get a build up of deadly toxins over time.

For the record until the EU brought in clean beaches regulations the best places to catch cod was of the ends of sewer pipes that discharged human waste into the sea. This led to many anglers trying to get the best places for the resulting run of cod and codling.

HAPPY DAYS

 

[dreolin]

What do you mean 'believe in' drinking alcohol, dancing to music.....?
Those aren't beliefs. They are social activities, and I see nothing wrong with them. Why do some Muslims see an issue with this ?

Eating a lobster dinner at a nice restaurant is a social activity and I see nothing wrong with that...and don't even get me started on canadian bacon, pepperoni and sausage pizza with extra cheese.

Why do some Jews see an issue with this?

Not just the Jews though is it, as the muslims feel the same way about pig meat. They far outnumber the Jews by a factor of 17,000,000 to 1.

personally I would see no problem in eating dry cured middle bacon, dry cured garlic and chilli pepper sausage or bratwurst and cheese on bread. You should try black pudding with the spices added, or pigs trotters and the delicacy of my area of the UK pressed pigs head in aspic or brawn as it is known. I cut my teeth on a roast pigs ear many decades ago, and had pork dripping sandwiches for lunch every Monday.

I am well aware that Jewish dietary restrictions and Muslim dietary restrictions are similar. I have no problem with that. I was responding to Toastman's post.

 

[dreolin]

What do you mean 'believe in' drinking alcohol, dancing to music.....?
Those aren't beliefs. They are social activities, and I see nothing wrong with them. Why do some Muslims see an issue with this ?

Eating a lobster dinner at a nice restaurant is a social activity and I see nothing wrong with that...and don't even get me started on canadian bacon, pepperoni and sausage pizza with extra cheese.

Why do some Jews see an issue with this?

They don't. They might disapprove but they don't go bugfuck and butcher people because they ate a porkchop. Now take the Islamists..........

Frankly, Hoss, "Islamist" is an ill defined word and its meaning in common usage has morphed. I find its use somewhat offensive, and particularly the way you and many others choose to use it.

Please be a bit more specific. I suppose I could start reerring to the more radical elements of the Jewish faith as "Judaeists", and probably with more accuracy, attributing the values of those radical elements to all Jews.

Perhaps you would care to be more clear.

 

[Sunni Man]

Certain Christian sects prohibit alcohal, smoking, music and dancing and fornication is always iffy (yet they still manage large families!)

Anyone who grew up in the south like I did. Knows that in most small towns the Southern Baptist Church was usually the largest house of worship with the most members.

They are against drinking, dancing, smoking, gambling, and fornication. ..

 

[toastman]

Well good for you Sally - I'm sure we'll all applaud you heartily.

But I have to wonder. Here you are, so vocal on insisting that others (who might have a different opinion than your own) are "lying" about their experiences and foreign travels. How do we know you are telling the truth about all your wonderful charitable efforts when your posting concerns stop so abruptly when the violator is not Muslim?

It's a strange world Sally maybe you should hang out in it more

There are several other people would merit the response you just gave Sally. And that seems to be the problem with you. You claim to be unbiased, but you only criticize the pro - Israelis, even thought the anti - Israelis are clearly guilty of the same thing. I don't understand you, I really don't.
Now, there is no problem with being pro - Palestinian and anti - Zionist. But stop pretending you are not biased and don't pink sides, because that is a blatant lie.

I haven't seen the anti-Zionists display the same outrageous bigotry and hatred that the Zionist, as a whole, have displayed.

And I have seen her speak out against bigotry whenever and wherever it occurs, although to do it all the time would be a full time job.

Also, I think you are applying thw word "biased" incorrectly. The fact that one would condemn the actions of white South Africans and not condemn the actions of black South Africans in an equal amount during the times of apartheid is not necessarily indicative that a person is biased.

Yes, you've made comments like that before. Considering you're s known anti - semite, it's not surprising at all.
Sorry, but your posts concerning the behavior and posting of Zionists here have no merit, no credibility. But I;m quite sure you know this already

 

[toastman]

That's a complicated thing to answer irosie.

Sufi beliefs and practices are all over the place.

There are all kinds of Sufis......both sunni and shia.....plus way out there crazy sects.

Some sufis sects are strict muslims and adhere to orthodox Islam..

While other sufi sects believe in drinking alcohol, dancing to music, and fornication. ..

What do you mean 'believe in' drinking alcohol, dancing to music.....?
Those aren't beliefs. They are social activities, and I see nothing wrong with them. Why do some Muslims see an issue with this ?

Eating a lobster dinner at a nice restaurant is a social activity and I see nothing wrong with that...and don't even get me started on canadian bacon, pepperoni and sausage pizza with extra cheese.

Why do some Jews see an issue with this?

You misunderstood, I asked the question out of curiosity, not to insult Islam.

And what a surprise, you once again bring Jews into the conversation. You are pathetic

 

[toastman]

What do you mean 'believe in' drinking alcohol, dancing to music.....?
Those aren't beliefs. They are social activities, and I see nothing wrong with them. Why do you ?

Regardless of what you call them.

They are haram according to Islamic theology.

And muslims are not to participate in these so called social activities. ..

That's what I wanted to know.

 

[toastman]

Certain Christian sects prohibit alcohal, smoking, music and dancing and fornication is always iffy (yet they still manage large families!)

Anyone who grew up in the south like I did. Knows that in most small towns the Southern Baptist Church was usually the largest house of worship with the most members.

They are against drinking, dancing, smoking, gambling, and fornication. ..

When you say dancing, is it like a guy dancing with a girl, or just dancing in general?

 

[irosie91]

Certain Christian sects prohibit alcohal, smoking, music and dancing and fornication is always iffy (yet they still manage large families!)

Anyone who grew up in the south like I did. Knows that in most small towns the Southern Baptist Church was usually the largest house of worship with the most members.

They are against drinking, dancing, smoking, gambling, and fornication. ..

all true----but they do lots of singing Elvis was a baptist. As to "dancing" --
they jump around and clap and sing in church------kinda like dancing---
the dancing to which they object is generally CLUTCH AND HOLD_---
male female dancing-----but they allow square dancing--------there were baptists
around in my childhood------generally FROM the south

 

[toastman]

Eating a lobster dinner at a nice restaurant is a social activity and I see nothing wrong with that...and don't even get me started on canadian bacon, pepperoni and sausage pizza with extra cheese.

Why do some Jews see an issue with this?

They don't. They might disapprove but they don't go bugfuck and butcher people because they ate a porkchop. Now take the Islamists..........

Frankly, Hoss, "Islamist" is an ill defined word and its meaning in common usage has morphed. I find its use somewhat offensive, and particularly the way you and many others choose to use it.

Please be a bit more specific. I suppose I could start reerring to the more radical elements of the Jewish faith as "Judaeists", and probably with more accuracy, attributing the values of those radical elements to all Jews.

Perhaps you would care to be more clear.

You just can't help yourself can you?? You just had to relate it to Judaism. Pathetic

And did he say something in his post that you don't agree with? Why couldn't you comment on what he said ???

 

[dreolin]

Oh, Coyote, everyone knows that there are horrible things happening everywhere. However, right now the Middle East is in the news a lot, isn't it, so why shouldn't the posters want to post on this forum. No one is stopping you from posting here and giving your viewpoint (although I doubt you have had your experience of traveling through the Middle East) and also giving your viewpoint on all the many other forums that are available here. On these other forums you can talk about the horrible things that are happening elsewhere.

The Middle East is in the news because people don't give a shit about Africa Sally. No strategic resources. But hey - it gives you a great chance to pretend you really care about children with out much challenge

Have you taken a look at the Africa sextion of this message board. Here is the index on the first page

US scrambles to resolve South Sudan unrest
sudan 01-19-2014 07:58 AM
by sudan Go to last post 0 140

etc. etc. etc.

CISSA in Khartoum .. For Peace and Unity in Africa
sudan 12-03-2013 11:44 AM
by sudan Go to last post 0 203
Post New Thread

And when you were compiling this rather lengthy bit of information, it seems to have escaped your notice that the Africa forum has...
374 threads
5776 responses.

The Mideast forum, on the other hand, has...
8154 threads.
163366 responses.

I think you may have inadvertantly proven Coyote's point.

Also, she has posted on the Africa forum.

 

[Sally]

Certain Christian sects prohibit alcohal, smoking, music and dancing and fornication is always iffy (yet they still manage large families!)

Anyone who grew up in the south like I did. Knows that in most small towns the Southern Baptist Church was usually the largest house of worship with the most members.

They are against drinking, dancing, smoking, gambling, and fornication. ..

all true----but they do lots of singing Elvis was a baptist. As to "dancing" --
they jump around and clap and sing in church------kinda like dancing---
the dancing to which they object is generally CLUTCH AND HOLD_---
male female dancing-----but they allow square dancing--------there were baptists
around in my childhood------generally FROM the south

There used to be dancing on Friday nights at St. Helena's Church in the Bronx, and the priest who was the chaperon would say to a couple "Leave room for Jesus" if they were dancing too close.

 

[Sunni Man]

When you say dancing, is it like a guy dancing with a girl, or just dancing in general?

Church's in the south frowned on boy/girl dances such as the high school prom.

Have you ever heard of 'clogging'? It's what the rural mountain folk did instead of dancing. (much like the Irish river dance style)

It was allowed because you danced alone and the dancer doesn't use his arms.....only the feet. ..

 

[toastman]

When you say dancing, is it like a guy dancing with a girl, or just dancing in general?

Church's in the south frowned on boy/girl dances such as the high school prom.

Have you ever heard of 'clogging'? It's what the rural mountain folk did instead of dancing. (much like the Irish river dance style)

It was allowed because you danced alone and the dancer doesn't use his arms.....only the feet. ..

I've heard of clogging. Is that a kind of dance tolerated ? Or is it no dancing at all. I'm just curious , because I've never heard about that rule before

 

[dreolin]

They don't. They might disapprove but they don't go bugfuck and butcher people because they ate a porkchop. Now take the Islamists..........

Frankly, Hoss, "Islamist" is an ill defined word and its meaning in common usage has morphed. I find its use somewhat offensive, and particularly the way you and many others choose to use it.

Please be a bit more specific. I suppose I could start reerring to the more radical elements of the Jewish faith as "Judaeists", and probably with more accuracy, attributing the values of those radical elements to all Jews.

Perhaps you would care to be more clear.

You just can't help yourself can you?? You just had to relate it to Judaism. Pathetic

And did he say something in his post that you don't agree with? Why couldn't you comment on what he said ???

Just becaise you didn't like the comment doesn't mean I didn't make one.

I related the initial comment to Judaism becaise your initial comment to Sunni was about the practice of Islam. I imagine you made your comment to him because he is a Muslim and I made a similar illustrative and non-condemning comment to you because you are Jewish.

I suppose, as is your wont, I could have railed endlessly about Irish Catholics in Seattle eating fish sticks on Friday...but I didn't want to stray too far off topic and add to your befuddlement, nor did I want to further encourage you in your inane obsession with me.

 

[toastman]

Frankly, Hoss, "Islamist" is an ill defined word and its meaning in common usage has morphed. I find its use somewhat offensive, and particularly the way you and many others choose to use it.

Please be a bit more specific. I suppose I could start reerring to the more radical elements of the Jewish faith as "Judaeists", and probably with more accuracy, attributing the values of those radical elements to all Jews.

Perhaps you would care to be more clear.

You just can't help yourself can you?? You just had to relate it to Judaism. Pathetic

And did he say something in his post that you don't agree with? Why couldn't you comment on what he said ???

Just becaise you didn't like the comment doesn't mean I didn't make one.

I related the initial comment to Judaism becaise your initial comment to Sunni was about the practice of Islam. I imagine you made your comment to him because he is a Muslim and I made a similar illustrative and non-condemning comment to you because you are Jewish.

I suppose, as is your wont, I could have railed endlessly about Irish Catholics in Seattle eating fish sticks on Friday...but I didn't want to stray too far off topic and add to your befuddlement, nor did I want to further encourage you in your inane obsession with me.

Obsession with you?? LOL. Don;t flatter yourself.

The only obsesion that I , and several others see, is your with Judaism and Zionists.