Tax the rich, lose the rich

[Wicked Jester]

LOL so even if they get more tax cuts or we extend bush's tax cuts to the job creators will still not create jobs because we are in a recession so what is the point of allowing them to keep the capital if they aren't willing to follow through with their end of the deal??

FEAR so do you also have a distaste for the fear that the right is using to try and gain in the upcoming election?? mccain made similar comments so why only focus on one candidate?? Furthermore didn't W even talk about it??

The fact is that they had the motivation that they wanted in order for them to hire and just like you they made lame excuses as to why they weren't hiring although your lame excuses seem to have more a political motivation as you seem to only want to be critical of one side as you give the obstructionist right a pass.

Seriously, hack....You need to go into business for yourself and get an understanding, instead of spouting off with your USUAL b.s. progressive talking points.

In fact, come here to California and try and do business. Particularly if you own the property and land your business is located on. Deal with property taxes on top of business taxes. Deal with your own personal income taxes. Deal with having a bottom line that must be maintained. When that bottom line is negatively affected in any way, too include over taxation, decisions have to be made in order to protect it. Those decisions more often than not result in the loss of jobs of those you employ.

HAHA says the hack with the fictitious life that he made up and ahd to keep corecting after errors in his story were pointed out. LOL

Again with the over taxation BS. Since bush's tax cuts are still in place and as far as I can see no new taxes have been imposed as of yet by the federal government what the fuck are you crying about???

In the end you failed to address the content ass usual but that is to be expected.

So tell us, hack.....Ya' ever owned a business?....Ever had to deal with maintaining bottom line of said business....Ever had to deal with all that goes with owning a business....Ever had to worry about paying employees. Providing them benefits. Keeping them employed?

You can attack me to till the cows come home. Fact of the matter is, you refuse to deal with the issue as a whole.....To include the fact that the lack of confidence in, and proven inability of your messiah, his administration, and democratically controlled congress is a main underlying reason as to why jobs aren't being created and, doing away with the tax cuts will not help a god damn thing.....If there is no confidence, there is no expansion. No new jobs. No anything. Keeping the cuts in place allows businesses to absorb losses. Allows businesses to try and stem the tide of lay-offs and job cuts. Allows them to put money away for the future, to expand, create jobs, and resume business as usual when hopefully we get politicians who actually have a fucking clue.

Quit trying to blame it all on the rich, and start holding those you hold in high esteem accountable.....Until you do so, you're just a clueless fucking hack!

 

[boedicca]

Anyone who has ever had to "make payroll" - and I mean really make payroll as in a small business that lives and dies on cash flow - knows that taxes and regulation matter. High taxes & Regulation = Less Economic Growth = Less willingness to take the risk of hiring more staff and increase the payroll nut

That's the basic problem with Obamanomics - complete and utter ignorance and disdain for those who build and manage small businesses. They are actually fine with the Crony MegaCorps with whom they trade money and favors. But the independent, self-sufficient types? Screw 'em.

 

[Wicked Jester]

Anyone who has ever had to "make payroll" - and I mean really make payroll as in a small business that lives and dies on cash flow - knows that taxes and regulation matter. High taxes & Regulation = Less Economic Growth = Less willingness to take the risk of hiring more staff and increase the payroll nut

That's the basic problem with Obamanomics - complete and utter ignorance and disdain for those who build and manage small businesses. They are actually fine with the Crony MegaCorps with whom they trade money and favors. But the independent, self-sufficient types? Screw 'em.

Hell, i'm still waiting for drsmith to explain to us all how doing away with the cuts will help create jobs.....Seeing how he has fully proven to be completely ignorant on the issues of economics and doing business, I fully expect it to be quite entertaining.

 

[CMike]

What is so difficult to understand?

If business owners have more money as a result of paying not as much taxes, they can spend that money on expansion or even survival if need be.

 

[CMike]

What will the Bush tax cuts expiring mean?

How the Expiring Bush Tax Cuts Affect You - Personal Finance - Taxes - SmartMoney.com


Higher tax rates for all

You may have been led to believe that only individuals in the top two brackets will face higher federal income taxes when the Bush cuts go bye-bye. Not true! Unless Congress takes action and President Obama goes along, rates will go up for everyone -- not just a sliver of the wealthiest Americans. The current six rate brackets of 10%, 15%, 25%, 28%, 33% and 35% will be replaced by five new brackets with the higher rates of 15%, 28%, 31%, 36% and 39.6%.

...Right now, the maximum federal rate on long-term capital gains and dividends is only 15%. Starting next year, the maximum rate on long-term gains will increase to 20%. The maximum rate on dividends will skyrocket to 39.6% unless action is taken to limit the rate to 20%, as the president has repeatedly promised. Plan on 39.6%, and hope I’m wrong.

Right now, an unbeatable 0% rate applies to long-term gains and dividends collected by folks in lowest two rate brackets of 10% and 15%. Starting next year, those folks will pay 10% on long-term gains and 15% and 28% on dividends (compared with 0% now) unless a change is made. Otherwise, taxes on long-term gains and dividends will go up for everyone.

Return of the marriage penalty

Right now, the standard deduction for married joint-filing couples is double the amount for singles. For this, we can thank the Bush tax cuts, which included several provisions to ease the so-called marriage penalty. The penalty can force a married couple to pay more in taxes than when they were single. Starting next year, the joint-filer standard deduction will fall back to about 167% of the amount for singles unless Congress takes action and the president approves. We don’t know if that will happen. If not, lots of lower and middle-income couples will face higher tax bills


..Return of phase-out rule for itemized deductions

Before the Bush tax cuts, a nasty phase-out rule could eliminate up to 80% of a higher-income individual’s itemized deductions for mortgage interest, state and local taxes, and charitable donations. The rule was gradually eased and finally eliminated this year. Next year, it will be back in full force unless Congress takes action -- which is unlikely. So if you itemize and have adjusted gross income above about $170,000 ($85,000 if you use married filing separate status), be ready for this phase-out rule to take a toll.

Return of phase-out rule for personal exemptions

Before the Bush tax cuts, another nasty phase-out rule could eliminate some or all of a higher-income individual’s personal exemption deductions. The rule was gradually cut back and finally eliminated this year. But it will be back with a vengeance next year unless Congress blocks it. So be ready for another tax hike if your adjusted gross income exceeds about $252,000 if you file jointly; about $168,000 if you’re single; about $210,000 if you’re a head of household; or about $126,000 if you use married filing separate status. (For 2010, personal exemption deductions are $3,650 each, and they will be about the same next year.)

The bottom line

The Bush tax cuts don’t just offer tax relief to the wealthiest Americans. They offer it to just about anyone who pays federal income taxes. Their scheduled demise next year will raise the tax bill of nearly every taxpayer, unless Congress makes changes and the president jumps on board.

 

[drsmith1072]

It's impossible to explain why tax cuts spur economic growth to someone who is completely and thoroughly an economic illiterate. It's like trying to explain what the Mona Lisa looks like to someone who has been stone blind since birth.

Nice trolling, but the FACT remains that the taxcuts were passed and have been active this whole time and ahve done NOTHING so how would extending them do what you claim when they haven't done it thus far??

I have heard all of the lame excuses as to why it hasn't spurred job growth and those excuses will still exist even if the taxcuts are extended so please explain how repeating the same actions while expecting a different outcome makes any sense to you.

And after a brief reading I can see that the hacks ignore the message and have proceded to attack the messenger. How typical.

 

[asterism]

It's impossible to explain why tax cuts spur economic growth to someone who is completely and thoroughly an economic illiterate. It's like trying to explain what the Mona Lisa looks like to someone who has been stone blind since birth.

Nice trolling, but the FACT remains that the taxcuts were passed and have been active this whole time and ahve done NOTHING so how would extending them do what you claim when they haven't done it thus far??

You're saying that there were no positive economic indicators between 2003 and 2008?

 

[Wicked Jester]

It's impossible to explain why tax cuts spur economic growth to someone who is completely and thoroughly an economic illiterate. It's like trying to explain what the Mona Lisa looks like to someone who has been stone blind since birth.

Nice trolling, but the FACT remains that the taxcuts were passed and have been active this whole time and ahve done NOTHING so how would extending them do what you claim when they haven't done it thus far??

I have heard all of the lame excuses as to why it hasn't spurred job growth and those excuses will still exist even if the taxcuts are extended so please explain how repeating the same actions while expecting a different outcome makes any sense to you.

And after a brief reading I can see that the hacks ignore the message and have proceded to attack the messenger. How typical.

You are seriously outgunned up here, lil' one. It's been explained to you several times up here in many posts. You just refuse to acknowledge it, because you know that the true underlying reason that there are no jobs being created is directly related to Obama's abject failures as a leader on so many levels.

Now, the benefits of keeping the cuts in place has been thoroughly explained to you. Lets see if you can go back through the posts and get a fucking clue!

LMAO!

 

[Mr Natural]

The wealthy and powerful have always been able to bamboozle the simple minded into doing their bidding for them.

The Civil War is a perfect example of this. Somehow, the plantation owners who were too cheap to pay for their field hands, convinced the incredibly stupid to go out and fight and die so that they, the well heeled, could continue their lives of luxury and indolence.

 

[Mr. Shaman]

More Rich Americans Renounce U.S. Citizenship over Taxes - DailyFinance

Keep in mind that wealthy people represent the dynamic force in our economy, starting businesses, expanding existing businesses or investing in new or starting companies. That they want to take their marbles and leave is a bad sign for us.

Where're they gonna go?

 

[JakeStarkey]

The fact is that the Party of No is trying to do it again to the working classes and small businesses of America.

That will not work any more this time than in 2006 and 2008. The fact is real Americans hate the GOP.

 

[drsmith1072]

Actually those things have all been proven. Including the fact that you get more money from the rich by lower tax rates. You want to get more money from the rich, right?
Arthur Laffer: The Soak-the-Rich Catch-22 - WSJ.com

Once again you have to be informed that you saying it, doesn't make it so. And providing an oped from the rigthwing times does nothing to prove your claims. However, my guess is taht you already know that.

BTW it still doesn't address your own contradiction in which you defend why jobs haven't been created and yet even IF the taxcuts are extended for all, according to your own spin earlier on, we will still be in a recession and companies and rightwingers will still use your list of lame excuses as to why they aren't created jobs, so how can you guarantee that what you claim will happen will in fact happen when your earlier arguments seem to counter your current spin??

Do you have the slightest idea what you are talking about?
Tax cuts themselves will not create jobs. If the present administration keeps on demonizing business and imposing new regulations and new taxes then cutting other taxes will not help one bit.
But a concerted plan to limit regulation, return to the rule of law, and cut taxes at the margin (I realize I am using language that might as well be Pashtun to you) will be a whole lot better than the failed policies we have had for the last 3 years.

Do you??

If they alone will not do it then why are those on the right claiming that they will?? This thread is about the taxcuts, although its OP and its source made claims not supported by the facts, and all of the right wing claims about what extending the taxctus will do when they have shown that they won't do what the rightwingers claim and the proof is the fact that they haven't done so thus far.

BTW, Still waiting on you to explain your contradiction, how will extending the taxcuts NOW create job growth when all of the things that you claim are obstructing job growth will still be in affect if the taxcuts are extended??

Furthermore, you claim that taxcuts will produce, " higher wages, more productivity, greater GDP." and yet they haven't thus far so can you explain how they will magically do so if extended when they haven't done so even though they are active NOW?

 

[Mr. Shaman]

It's impossible to explain why tax cuts spur economic growth to someone who is completely and thoroughly an economic illiterate. It's like trying to explain what the Mona Lisa looks like to someone who has been stone blind since birth.

Nice trolling, but the FACT remains that the taxcuts were passed and have been active this whole time and ahve done NOTHING so how would extending them do what you claim when they haven't done it thus far??

You're saying that there were no positive economic indicators between 2003 and 2008?

Absolutely....for the 1%ers.

They got tax-cuts.....and, the general-public got to pay for two Wars!!

(I'm sure it was merely a coincidence that the 1%ers were heavily-invested in oil & the defense-industry. )​

 

[drsmith1072]

Anyone who has ever had to "make payroll" - and I mean really make payroll as in a small business that lives and dies on cash flow - knows that taxes and regulation matter. High taxes & Regulation = Less Economic Growth = Less willingness to take the risk of hiring more staff and increase the payroll nut

That's the basic problem with Obamanomics - complete and utter ignorance and disdain for those who build and manage small businesses. They are actually fine with the Crony MegaCorps with whom they trade money and favors. But the independent, self-sufficient types? Screw 'em.

Hell, i'm still waiting for drsmith to explain to us all how doing away with the cuts will help create jobs.....Seeing how he has fully proven to be completely ignorant on the issues of economics and doing business, I fully expect it to be quite entertaining.

So can you show me when and where I made such a claim?? Oh you mean I never did make such a claim and you are once again trying to demand that I prove a claim I never made. How typical. LOL

I am merely arguing that I don't see how extending the taxcuts will do everything the right is claiming that they will do when they have been active in their current form since 2003 and haven't yet done what the right claims they will do.
So I asked right wingers to explain how repeating the same action will bring about a different outcome and got nothing but trolls and spin in response.

 

[NYcarbineer]

More Rich Americans Renounce U.S. Citizenship over Taxes - DailyFinance

Keep in mind that wealthy people represent the dynamic force in our economy, starting businesses, expanding existing businesses or investing in new or starting companies. That they want to take their marbles and leave is a bad sign for us.
All you "don't let the screen door hit you where the good Lord split you" liberal class warriors can just STFU now.

The rich are going to leave the U.S. to escape a 39% top tax rate?

lol

 

[The Rabbi]

Once again you have to be informed that you saying it, doesn't make it so. And providing an oped from the rigthwing times does nothing to prove your claims. However, my guess is taht you already know that.

BTW it still doesn't address your own contradiction in which you defend why jobs haven't been created and yet even IF the taxcuts are extended for all, according to your own spin earlier on, we will still be in a recession and companies and rightwingers will still use your list of lame excuses as to why they aren't created jobs, so how can you guarantee that what you claim will happen will in fact happen when your earlier arguments seem to counter your current spin??

Do you have the slightest idea what you are talking about?
Tax cuts themselves will not create jobs. If the present administration keeps on demonizing business and imposing new regulations and new taxes then cutting other taxes will not help one bit.
But a concerted plan to limit regulation, return to the rule of law, and cut taxes at the margin (I realize I am using language that might as well be Pashtun to you) will be a whole lot better than the failed policies we have had for the last 3 years.

Do you??

If they alone will not do it then why are those on the right claiming that they will?? This thread is about the taxcuts, although its OP and its source made claims not supported by the facts, and all of the right wing claims about what extending the taxctus will do when they have shown that they won't do what the rightwingers claim and the proof is the fact that they haven't done so thus far.

BTW, Still waiting on you to explain your contradiction, how will extending the taxcuts NOW create job growth when all of the things that you claim are obstructing job growth will still be in affect if the taxcuts are extended??

Furthermore, you claim that taxcuts will produce, " higher wages, more productivity, greater GDP." and yet they haven't thus far so can you explain how they will magically do so if extended when they haven't done so even though they are active NOW?

There is no contradiction. The only contradiction is you writing an intelligent post. I have made the point very clearly. If you cannot understand it, have someone read the post to you.

 

[The Rabbi]

More Rich Americans Renounce U.S. Citizenship over Taxes - DailyFinance

Keep in mind that wealthy people represent the dynamic force in our economy, starting businesses, expanding existing businesses or investing in new or starting companies. That they want to take their marbles and leave is a bad sign for us.
All you "don't let the screen door hit you where the good Lord split you" liberal class warriors can just STFU now.

The rich are going to leave the U.S. to escape a 39% top tax rate?

lol

Add in state taxes etc etc and you get over 50% very quickly.

 

[daveman]

The fact is that the Party of No is trying to do it again to the working classes and small businesses of America.

That will not work any more this time than in 2006 and 2008. The fact is real Americans hate the GOP.

 

[NYcarbineer]

More Rich Americans Renounce U.S. Citizenship over Taxes - DailyFinance

Keep in mind that wealthy people represent the dynamic force in our economy, starting businesses, expanding existing businesses or investing in new or starting companies. That they want to take their marbles and leave is a bad sign for us.
All you "don't let the screen door hit you where the good Lord split you" liberal class warriors can just STFU now.

The rich are going to leave the U.S. to escape a 39% top tax rate?

lol

Add in state taxes etc etc and you get over 50% very quickly.

Except that the 39% only applies to taxable income in the bracket from about 200,000 up.

I'd rather be rich and paying the tax, than down here with the regular people.

 

[daveman]

So, the lesson to be learned from this thread is:

The government taking more money away from people makes them more prosperous.

Hey, if the government takes everything, we'll all be rich!!