Tell me . . .

[ChrisL]

So, now you can see why I can't vote for republicans or democrats. You can understand why I see them both as silly beyond belief and extreme and unrealistic and illogical. Clowns.

 

[Rustic]

I am 46 years old and own my own bussiness, no thanks to socialism...

You know the middle class that buys your products because they have money in their pockets? Thank us liberals. My buddy owns a small business. He talks to other small business owners and in Michigan, during the bush years, people weren't spending money like they did in the 90s. The big 3 going to Mexico screwed a lot of small business' here.

Luckily trump and hillary both want to tariff corporations

The 90s were just a bubble that the foolish bought into.

If we didn't send all those jobs overseas it wouldn't have been so bad.

The problem is those companies have no choice they were taxed too much to survive here due to an overbearing federal government

Bullshit. GE pays no taxes. Stop the right wing talking points. If they weren't allowed to leave corporate profits and CEO pay just wouldn't be as high.

Higher wages and taxes mean lower profits true. But saying they had no choice is stupid. We were dumb to give them a choice. We gave them a choice. Ship jobs to where labor costs and taxes are low and ship their shit back? Are we stupid? If you want to sell your stuff here you have to make it here. It's just that simple.

But the way you frame your argument is totally disingenuous and flawed.

A. They had no choice? Bullshit. But of course a corporation is going to choose the cheapest option. They only care about one thing. And you want them to run the country?

B. They weren't taxed too much to survive. Who was? Give some examples.

Many union companies went bankrupt renigged on pensions and moved overseas on purpose

You've heard of a board, you know that runs the company. It should be their personal decision whether they stay or go and if their profits are too low. The federal government has no right on determining whether a business is making enough…

 

[SmokeALib]

Let's examine this scenario. Now, you've taken away free healthcare, free birth control and other social service supports. A young person gets pregnant (because we all KNOW the young are impulsive and risk takers - the "nothing bad will ever happen to ME scenario). So they can't have an abortion because you've also made that illegal due to your religious beliefs or whatnot. Hmm. So, basically people are certainly no longer "free" or pursuing their own ideas of happiness.

It's all about choices.

 

[ChrisL]

Your logic, "let's take away social service support nets and poverty will go away." People will suddenly stop being people and act more like robots or computers. I have to wonder if some people ever go outside.

 

[ChrisL]

Let's examine this scenario. Now, you've taken away free healthcare, free birth control and other social service supports. A young person gets pregnant (because we all KNOW the young are impulsive and risk takers - the "nothing bad will ever happen to ME scenario). So they can't have an abortion because you've also made that illegal due to your religious beliefs or whatnot. Hmm. So, basically people are certainly no longer "free" or pursuing their own ideas of happiness.

It's all about choices.

So, are you claiming that you have only ever made good choices? Or that you are lucky and none of your choices resulted in anything bad happening to you?

 

[Hiryuu]

So, now you can see why I can't vote for republicans or democrats. You can understand why I see them both as silly beyond belief and extreme and unrealistic and illogical. Clowns.

Vote for the dope smoker or tree hugger then, you have a choice.

 

[Rustic]

Let's examine this scenario. Now, you've taken away free healthcare, free birth control and other social service supports. A young person gets pregnant (because we all KNOW the young are impulsive and risk takers - the "nothing bad will ever happen to ME scenario). So they can't have an abortion because you've also made that illegal due to your religious beliefs or whatnot. Hmm. So, basically people are certainly no longer "free" or pursuing their own ideas of happiness.

Just because someone young they don't have to be dumb... That rhymes

Again, this is the real world. This is not la-la fantasy land. We are talking about human beings who are FAR from perfect. NONE of us is perfect. People make mistakes in real life all the time, sometimes even ones that cost them their lives. We are all in this together, and I can see no good reason why anyone would OBJECT to their tax dollars helping out other people. Should there be some stipulations? Perhaps yes, reasonable and logical stipulations.

Being stupid is not an excuse, they fuck up and they move on.
The problem is relying on the federal government as a fair and just distribution mechanism is idiotic...

No, some mistakes are life changing events. If some of you conservatives had your way, there would be TWICE as many poor people because you would allow people no opportunities at all to better themselves. Some of you don't want to make education more in reach, you don't want to pay into social services programs, and you want to force women to go through pregnancies that perhaps they cannot afford or don't want, and then what happens to all those little babies? Some of you really need to think things through because your approaches are completely unrealistic. We would have children and families and individuals dying inthe streets if you had your way. That is NOT the America that I want to see!

True, shit happens.... Life goes on.
BTW... I happen to be a libertarian.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Bullshit. GE pays no taxes. Stop the right wing talking points. If they weren't allowed to leave corporate profits and CEO pay just wouldn't be as high.

Higher wages and taxes mean lower profits true. But saying they had no choice is stupid. We were dumb to give them a choice. We gave them a choice. Ship jobs to where labor costs and taxes are low and ship their shit back? Are we stupid? If you want to sell your stuff here you have to make it here. It's just that simple.

But the way you frame your argument is totally disingenuous and flawed.

A. They had no choice? Bullshit. But of course a corporation is going to choose the cheapest option. They only care about one thing. And you want them to run the country?

B. They weren't taxed too much to survive. Who was? Give some examples.

Many union companies went bankrupt renigged on pensions and moved overseas on purpose

I'm a truck driver and one of our customers is a crate company. They construct crates for any size of job. They make little crates the size of a suitcase and crates the size of tractor-trailers.

They would frequently send us out to deliver these crates to companies moving out of the state or country. I used the opportunity to talk with supervisors and even company owners. You would be surprised at how many regretted leaving.

They remained in the US as long as they could. But once somebody in their industry moves out of the country for lower wages and taxes, they begin to steal their customers. The US manufacturer has no choice but to leave as well. It's either move operations overseas, or join your employees in the unemployment line after you close down.

In my experience, unions were the problem. In spite of multiple warnings from the company, the unions refused to back down and take wage or benefit reductions.

 

[Rustic]

So, now you can see why I can't vote for republicans or democrats. You can understand why I see them both as silly beyond belief and extreme and unrealistic and illogical. Clowns.

I'm writing in Elmer Fudd...

 

[sealybobo]

You know the middle class that buys your products because they have money in their pockets? Thank us liberals. My buddy owns a small business. He talks to other small business owners and in Michigan, during the bush years, people weren't spending money like they did in the 90s. The big 3 going to Mexico screwed a lot of small business' here.

Luckily trump and hillary both want to tariff corporations

The 90s were just a bubble that the foolish bought into.

If we didn't send all those jobs overseas it wouldn't have been so bad.

The problem is those companies have no choice they were taxed too much to survive here due to an overbearing federal government

Bullshit. GE pays no taxes. Stop the right wing talking points. If they weren't allowed to leave corporate profits and CEO pay just wouldn't be as high.

Higher wages and taxes mean lower profits true. But saying they had no choice is stupid. We were dumb to give them a choice. We gave them a choice. Ship jobs to where labor costs and taxes are low and ship their shit back? Are we stupid? If you want to sell your stuff here you have to make it here. It's just that simple.

But the way you frame your argument is totally disingenuous and flawed.

A. They had no choice? Bullshit. But of course a corporation is going to choose the cheapest option. They only care about one thing. And you want them to run the country?

B. They weren't taxed too much to survive. Who was? Give some examples.

Many union companies went bankrupt renigged on pensions and moved overseas on purpose

You've heard of a board, you know that runs the company. It should be their personal decision whether you stay or go and if their profits are too low. The federal government has no right on determining whether a business is making enough…

Well if that company wants to do business here it has to benefit us too. That means fair wages and pay your taxes. You don't want corporations paying their fair share.

Corporations don't decide what taxes they pay. We the people do

 

[Hiryuu]

I'm writing in Elmer Fudd...

It would be hilarious if Mickey Mouse won the election.

 

[SmokeALib]

Let's examine this scenario. Now, you've taken away free healthcare, free birth control and other social service supports. A young person gets pregnant (because we all KNOW the young are impulsive and risk takers - the "nothing bad will ever happen to ME scenario). So they can't have an abortion because you've also made that illegal due to your religious beliefs or whatnot. Hmm. So, basically people are certainly no longer "free" or pursuing their own ideas of happiness.

It's all about choices.

So, are you claiming that you have only ever made good choices? Or that you are lucky and none of your choices resulted in anything bad happening to you?

Wrong again. For the 4th time in this thread. It's getting tiresome. I have made terrible choices. But I dug my way out of them and learned from them. I sure as hell didn't expect somebody else to pay for them.
I feel sorry for you, in a way.

 

[sealybobo]

Bullshit. GE pays no taxes. Stop the right wing talking points. If they weren't allowed to leave corporate profits and CEO pay just wouldn't be as high.

Higher wages and taxes mean lower profits true. But saying they had no choice is stupid. We were dumb to give them a choice. We gave them a choice. Ship jobs to where labor costs and taxes are low and ship their shit back? Are we stupid? If you want to sell your stuff here you have to make it here. It's just that simple.

But the way you frame your argument is totally disingenuous and flawed.

A. They had no choice? Bullshit. But of course a corporation is going to choose the cheapest option. They only care about one thing. And you want them to run the country?

B. They weren't taxed too much to survive. Who was? Give some examples.

Many union companies went bankrupt renigged on pensions and moved overseas on purpose

I'm a truck driver and one of our customers is a crate company. They construct crates for any size of job. They make little crates the size of a suitcase and crates the size of tractor-trailers.

They would frequently send us out to deliver these crates to companies moving out of the state or country. I used the opportunity to talk with supervisors and even company owners. You would be surprised at how many regretted leaving.

They remained in the US as long as they could. But once somebody in their industry moves out of the country for lower wages and taxes, they begin to steal their customers. The US manufacturer has no choice but to leave as well. It's either move operations overseas, or join your employees in the unemployment line after you close down.

In my experience, unions were the problem. In spite of multiple warnings from the company, the unions refused to back down and take wage or benefit reductions.

That's right. As soon as you let one import tariff free they all had to go.

And why did bush Romney McCain and the GOP give corporations going overseas tax breaks? That makes no sense.

 

[OKTexas]

It's a big problem when people who work full time (no matter the job) and still cannot rise above the official poverty guidelines. That is scary.

Many people in urban areas think an entry-level job should be and pay like career... Someone should tell them the truth.

It should be more than what you get on welfare though.

No, not really an entry-level job is just that an entry-level job... temporary.
And only a stupid employer would not look At it as such.

Well, as I'm sure you are aware, there is a population of people who live in America who will never have more than a high school education. This is REALITY.

And?? You don't need college to be successful.

 

[sealybobo]

I'm writing in Elmer Fudd...

It would be hilarious if Mickey Mouse won the election.

I keep thinking trump reminds me of when lex luthor ran for president

 

[ChrisL]

Let's examine this scenario. Now, you've taken away free healthcare, free birth control and other social service supports. A young person gets pregnant (because we all KNOW the young are impulsive and risk takers - the "nothing bad will ever happen to ME scenario). So they can't have an abortion because you've also made that illegal due to your religious beliefs or whatnot. Hmm. So, basically people are certainly no longer "free" or pursuing their own ideas of happiness.

It's all about choices.

So, are you claiming that you have only ever made good choices? Or that you are lucky and none of your choices resulted in anything bad happening to you?

Wrong again. For the 4th time in this thread. It's getting tiresome. I have made terrible choices. But I dug my way out of them and learned from them. I sure as hell didn't expect somebody else to pay for them.
I feel sorry for you, in a way.

You were lucky that you had some opportunities! Not everyone does! Jobs are not plentiful, and a lot of them are only part time and pay minimum wage! If you take away student loans and grants, then these people will not be able to support their families AND pay the outrageous amounts for tuition. You MUST be able to see how your ideas are not plausible.

 

[Rustic]

The 90s were just a bubble that the foolish bought into.

If we didn't send all those jobs overseas it wouldn't have been so bad.

The problem is those companies have no choice they were taxed too much to survive here due to an overbearing federal government

Bullshit. GE pays no taxes. Stop the right wing talking points. If they weren't allowed to leave corporate profits and CEO pay just wouldn't be as high.

Higher wages and taxes mean lower profits true. But saying they had no choice is stupid. We were dumb to give them a choice. We gave them a choice. Ship jobs to where labor costs and taxes are low and ship their shit back? Are we stupid? If you want to sell your stuff here you have to make it here. It's just that simple.

But the way you frame your argument is totally disingenuous and flawed.

A. They had no choice? Bullshit. But of course a corporation is going to choose the cheapest option. They only care about one thing. And you want them to run the country?

B. They weren't taxed too much to survive. Who was? Give some examples.

Many union companies went bankrupt renigged on pensions and moved overseas on purpose

You've heard of a board, you know that runs the company. It should be their personal decision whether you stay or go and if their profits are too low. The federal government has no right on determining whether a business is making enough…

Well if that company wants to do business here it has to benefit us too. That means fair wages and pay your taxes. You don't want corporations paying their fair share.

Corporations don't decide what taxes they pay. We the people do

They should be allowed to leave the country to do the right business for their business... Because there's no reason whatsoever do even start and run a business if not for profit. No one starts a business just to hire people and help them out -for that mentality is fucked in the head...
Too bad the country and the federal government are not on the same side…

 

[ChrisL]

Damn, both of your sides are sooooo . . . ignorant of reality and life and people! And probably a lot of other things too!

 

[SmokeALib]

Let's examine this scenario. Now, you've taken away free healthcare, free birth control and other social service supports. A young person gets pregnant (because we all KNOW the young are impulsive and risk takers - the "nothing bad will ever happen to ME scenario). So they can't have an abortion because you've also made that illegal due to your religious beliefs or whatnot. Hmm. So, basically people are certainly no longer "free" or pursuing their own ideas of happiness.

It's all about choices.

So, are you claiming that you have only ever made good choices? Or that you are lucky and none of your choices resulted in anything bad happening to you?

Wrong again. For the 4th time in this thread. It's getting tiresome. I have made terrible choices. But I dug my way out of them and learned from them. I sure as hell didn't expect somebody else to pay for them.
I feel sorry for you, in a way.

You were lucky that you had some opportunities! Not everyone does! Jobs are not plentiful, and a lot of them are only part time and pay minimum wage! If you take away student loans and grants, then these people will not be able to support their families AND pay the outrageous amounts for tuition. You MUST be able to see how your ideas are not plausible.

Okay then. Good luck to you. You'll need it

 

[ChrisL]

Then when crimes rates rise, you will complain. Well, desperate people will do desperate things. You go ahead and save your 30 something dollars a month, cheapos.