Telling Differences between Reagan and Obama's Reaction to Jet's Being Shot Down

[Camp]

Reagan made a moving speech. He was an actor. That is what he was trained to do. Now lets get real about the so called tough guy and his response.
When the US tried to send ships into the area to recover remains and debris floating in the water the Russian's chased them away. Reagan did not stand up to them. The US tried to use Japanese flagged vessels to conduct search and recovery operations. They were turned away. The US had a US Congressman shot out of the sky and did not investigate the crash site because a belligerent country responsible for the shoot down told the US they weren't allowed to investigate the crash site. Tough guy Reagan folded his hand behind his back and walked away pouting like a little girl.
The only action Reagan took was to reveal the top secret GPS system we use today. He revealed it and gave it to the world to use free of charge.

 

[jknowgood]

Yeah, he did nothing but set the events in motion that brought down the Soviet Empire, you stupid jack ass.

What specifically did he do to bring down the Soviet Empire? Be very clear.

I could easily answer your question, but since you never answer a damned one of mine, go take a hike.

I'll take care of this one. Bodie Reagan scared the crap out of Gorbachev, was a strong leader. You liberals still cannot stand the fact that Reagan brought Russia down without one shot fired. We can go one liberal presidents accomplishments, Clinton got a blow job in the oval office. Obama used Bush's intel to get osama, even though it took torture to get. He also took 9 months to make the call. I'm sure Obama didn't want to kill a famous Conrad.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Reagan being held up as a paragon of virtue in the face of Vlad Putin? Putin has armed and asisited paramilitaries in another country for his own political end who have killed a large number of civilians. And now Reagan is a hero because he would have stood up to this?

The same Reagan who during the Iran Contra affair armed the contras in Nicaragua who tortured and killed a large number of civilians? Or a different Reagan I don't know about?

Moral equivalence fallacy taken to extreme by the boards ideological PC Nazi.

Way to go.

 

[dannyboys]

Obama goes AWOL again with just 40-second mention of Malaysian plane crash | Mail Online
Bobo doesn't have a clue what the word 'optics' means.
Or he doesn't give a shit what people think of him.
There are a lot of very ashamed LIBs ought there who wished they had voted for 'Hills'.
Bobo's 'library' will be located behind a trailer being used for a post office in the middle of know where.

 

[JimBowie1958]

What specifically did he do to bring down the Soviet Empire? Be very clear.

I could easily answer your question, but since you never answer a damned one of mine, go take a hike.

I'll take care of this one. Bodie Reagan scared the crap out of Gorbachev, was a strong leader. You liberals still cannot stand the fact that Reagan brought Russia down without one fire shot. We can go one liberal presidents accomplishments, Clinton got a blow job in the oval office. Obama used Bush's intel to get osama, even though it took torture to get. He also took 9 months to make the call. I'm sure Obama didn't want to kill a famous Conrad.

Well, he also started Star Wars program research and Stealth tech, both of which scared the shit out of the Russians and their efforts to duplicate that research bankrupted their slave empire.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Obama goes AWOL again with just 40-second mention of Malaysian plane crash | Mail Online
Bobo doesn't have a clue what the word 'optics' means.
Or he doesn't give a shit what people think of him.
There are a lot of very ashamed LIBs ought there who wished they had voted for 'Hills'.
Bobo's 'library' will be located behind a trailer being used for a post office in the middle of know where.

Maybe he'd give it more time if he could find a Russian missile he can hold up and kiss in front of the cameras? He seems to like THOSE kinds of photo ops.

 

[JimBowie1958]

The point remains that Reagan waited 4 days to say anything about KAL 007. The outrage from the far right would be off the charts if Obama waited 4 days to say anything MH 17.

Yeah, some people just cant grasp the need to have facts behind them before making claims or accusations. Imagine that.

 

[AceRothstein]

The point remains that Reagan waited 4 days to say anything about KAL 007. The outrage from the far right would be off the charts if Obama waited 4 days to say anything MH 17.

Yeah, some people just cant grasp the need to have facts behind them before making claims or accusations. Imagine that.

Exactly. What is the point of this thread now that you are admitting that we need to have facts before making claims or accusations?

 

[Manchester]

Reagan being held up as a paragon of virtue in the face of Vlad Putin? Putin has armed and asisited paramilitaries in another country for his own political end who have killed a large number of civilians. And now Reagan is a hero because he would have stood up to this?

The same Reagan who during the Iran Contra affair armed the contras in Nicaragua who tortured and killed a large number of civilians? Or a different Reagan I don't know about?

I'm a retard who has no reasonable counterpoint to yours.

Way to go.

 

[rightwinger]

Obama handles it with a fairly dignified break in his normal speaking engagement and calls it a tragedy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTbxlTaJg38

Reagan held an evening telecast to all Americans that put the blame square on the Russians and noted that no other government in the world does this (not even the crazy North Koreans, though Reagan doesn't mention them).

FLASHBACK: Presidents Reagan & Obama Address America on Russians Shooting Down Passenger Airliners

The key differences are that 1) the recent jet incident was not involving an American aircraft, and 2) while Reagan holds the Russians accountable for their actions Obama does not. It is a tragedy as if Russians just cant help shooting down aircraft, like Democratic city mayors just can help being crooks and tied to gangs and Democrat President just help but be liars and frauds (with the notable exception of Jimmy Carter, God bless him).

What other differences are there that I have missed?

What did Reagan say when HE was the one who shot down a commercial airliner?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655

 

[Camp]

The point remains that Reagan waited 4 days to say anything about KAL 007. The outrage from the far right would be off the charts if Obama waited 4 days to say anything MH 17.

Yeah, some people just cant grasp the need to have facts behind them before making claims or accusations. Imagine that.

Exactly. What is the point of this thread now that you are admitting that we need to have facts before making claims or accusations?

Look at your OP. You started this thread on assumptions, not confirmed facts. When that was pointed out you justified your assumptions as stuff everyone should know. Make up your mind.

 

[jknowgood]

The point remains that Reagan waited 4 days to say anything about KAL 007. The outrage from the far right would be off the charts if Obama waited 4 days to say anything MH 17.

Yeah, some people just cant grasp the need to have facts behind them before making claims or accusations. Imagine that.

Exactly. What is the point of this thread now that you are admitting that we need to have facts before making claims or accusations?

Yeah Obama should've learned from his talking points about bengazi.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Reagan made a moving speech. He was an actor. That is what he was trained to do. Now lets get real about the so called tough guy and his response.
When the US tried to send ships into the area to recover remains and debris floating in the water the Russian's chased them away. Reagan did not stand up to them. The US tried to use Japanese flagged vessels to conduct search and recovery operations. They were turned away. The US had a US Congressman shot out of the sky and did not investigate the crash site because a belligerent country responsible for the shoot down told the US they weren't allowed to investigate the crash site. Tough guy Reagan folded his hand behind his back and walked away pouting like a little girl.
The only action Reagan took was to reveal the top secret GPS system we use today. He revealed it and gave it to the world to use free of charge.

roflmao, you are such a stupid ass liar.

Korean Air Lines Flight 007 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Immediately after the shootdown, South Korea, owner of the aircraft and therefore prime considerant for jurisdiction, designated the United States and Japan as search and salvage agents, thereby making it illegal for the Soviet Union to salvage the aircraft, providing it was found outside Soviet territorial waters. If it did so, the United States would now be legally entitled to use force against the Soviets, if necessary, to prevent retrieval of any part of the plane.[61]

On the same day as the shootdown, Rear Admiral William A. Cockell, Commander, Task Force 71, and a skeleton staff, taken by helicopter from Japan, embarked in USS Badger (stationed off Vladivostok at time of the flight)[62] on September 9 for further transfer to the destroyer USS Elliot to assume duties as Officer in Tactical Command (OTC) of the Search and Rescue (SAR) effort. Surface search began immediately and on into September 13. U.S. underwater operations began on September 14. On September 10, 1983, with no further hope of finding survivors, Task Force 71's mission had been reclassified from a "Search and Rescue" (SAR) operation to a "Search and Salvage" (SAS).[63]

On October 17, Rear Admiral William Cockell was relieved of command of the Task Force and its Search and Salvage mission, and Rear Admiral Walter T. Piotti, Jr., was placed in command. First to be searched was a 60 square mile "high probability" area. This was unsuccessful. On October 21, Task Force 71 extended its search within coordinates encompassing, in an arc around the Soviet territorial boundaries north of Moneron Island, an area of 225 square miles (583 km2), reaching to the west of Sakhalin Island. This was the "large probability" area. The search areas were outside the 12-mile Soviet-claimed territorial boundaries. The northwestern-most point of the search touched the Soviet territorial boundary closest to the naval port of Nevelsk on Sakhalin. Nevelsk was 46 nautical miles from Moneron. This larger search was also unsuccessful.[63]

The vessels used in the search, for the Soviet side as well as the Allied side (U.S., South Korea, Japan) were both civilian trawlers, especially equipped for both the SAR and SAS operations, and various types of warships and support ships. The Soviet side also employed both civilian and military divers. The Soviet search, beginning on the day of the shootdown and continuing until November 6, was confined to the 60 square mile "high probability" area in international waters, and within Soviet territorial waters to the north of Moneron Island. The area within Soviet territorial waters was off-limits to the U.S., South Korean, and Japanese boats. From September 3 to 29, four ships from the Republic of Korea had joined in the search.

Rear Admiral Walter T. Piotti Jr, commander of Task Force 71 of 7th Fleet would summarize the U.S. and Allied, and then the Soviets’, Search and Salvage operations:


“Not since the search for the hydrogen bomb lost off Palomares, Spain, has the U.S. Navy undertaken a search effort of the magnitude or import of the search for the wreckage of KAL Flight 007.”


“Within six days of the downing of KAL 007, the Soviets had deployed six ships to the general crash site area. Over the next 8 weeks of observation by U.S. naval units this number grew to a daily average of 19 Soviet naval, naval-associated and commercial (but undoubtedly naval-subordinated) ships in the Search and Salvage (SAS) area. The number of Soviet ships in the SAS area over this period ranged from a minimum of six to a maximum of thirty-two and included at least forty-eight different ships comprising forty different ship classes.”[64]

These missions met with interference by the Soviets,[65] in violation of the 1972 Incident at Sea agreement, and included false flag and fake light signals, sending an armed boarding party to threaten to board a U.S.-chartered Japanese auxiliary vessel (blocked by U.S. warship interposition), interfering with a helicopter coming off the USS Elliot (7 Sept.), attempted ramming of rigs used by the South Koreans in their quadrant search, hazardous maneuvering of the Gavril Sarychev and near-collision with the USS Callaghan (September 15, 18), removing U.S. sonars, setting false pingers in deep international waters, sending Backfire bombers armed with air-to-surface nuclear-armed missiles to threaten U.S. naval units, criss-crossing in front of U.S. combatant vessels (October 26), cutting and attempted cutting of moorings of Japanese auxiliary vessels, particularly the Kaiko Maru III, and radar lock-ons by a Soviet Kara-class cruiser, the Petropavlovsk, and a Kashin-class destroyer, the Odarennyy, targeting U.S. naval vessels. USS Towers, escorting USS Conserver, experienced all of the above interference and was involved in a near-collision with the Odarennyy (September 23–27).[66][67]

According to the ICAO: "The location of the main wreckage was not determined... the approximate position was

46°34′N 141°17′E, which was in international waters." This point is about 41 miles (66 km) from Moneron Island, about 45 miles (72 km) from the shore of Sakhalin and 33 miles (53 km) from the point of attack.[68]

Rear Admiral Walter T. Piotti Jr, commander of Task Force 71 of 7th Fleet, believed the search for KAL 007 in international waters to have been a search in the wrong place and assessed:[69]


"Had TF [task force] 71 been permitted to search without restriction imposed by claimed territorial waters, the aircraft stood a good chance of having been found. No wreckage of KAL 007 was found. However, the operation established, with a 95% or above confidence level, that the wreckage, or any significant portion of the aircraft, does not lie within the probability area outside the 12 nautical mile area claimed by the Soviets as their territorial limit."[35]

At a hearing of the ICAO on September 15, 1983, J. Lynn Helms, the head of the Federal Aviation Administration, stated:[5] "The U.S.S.R. has refused to permit search and rescue units from other countries to enter Soviet territorial waters to search for the remains of KAL 007. Moreover, the Soviet Union has blocked access to the likely crash site and has refused to cooperate with other interested parties, to ensure prompt recovery of all technical equipment, wreckage and other material."

We did a huge search, one of our largest and all in spite of repeated Soviet attempts to run us off and they FAILED just like your lies FAIL.

Lol, maybe you should go back to your day job.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Yeah, some people just cant grasp the need to have facts behind them before making claims or accusations. Imagine that.

Exactly. What is the point of this thread now that you are admitting that we need to have facts before making claims or accusations?

Yeah Obama should've learned from his talking points about bengazi.

Ideologues like the Dimbocraps and Obama cannot 'learn' anything outside their own ideological limits. For ideologues, reality is trumped by ideology, and hence prevents any learning. Instead they have to rationalize why the apparent evidence is misleading and the ideology still correct.

 

[Camp]

Reagan made a moving speech. He was an actor. That is what he was trained to do. Now lets get real about the so called tough guy and his response.
When the US tried to send ships into the area to recover remains and debris floating in the water the Russian's chased them away. Reagan did not stand up to them. The US tried to use Japanese flagged vessels to conduct search and recovery operations. They were turned away. The US had a US Congressman shot out of the sky and did not investigate the crash site because a belligerent country responsible for the shoot down told the US they weren't allowed to investigate the crash site. Tough guy Reagan folded his hand behind his back and walked away pouting like a little girl.
The only action Reagan took was to reveal the top secret GPS system we use today. He revealed it and gave it to the world to use free of charge.

roflmao, you are such a stupid ass liar.

Korean Air Lines Flight 007 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Immediately after the shootdown, South Korea, owner of the aircraft and therefore prime considerant for jurisdiction, designated the United States and Japan as search and salvage agents, thereby making it illegal for the Soviet Union to salvage the aircraft, providing it was found outside Soviet territorial waters. If it did so, the United States would now be legally entitled to use force against the Soviets, if necessary, to prevent retrieval of any part of the plane.[61]

On the same day as the shootdown, Rear Admiral William A. Cockell, Commander, Task Force 71, and a skeleton staff, taken by helicopter from Japan, embarked in USS Badger (stationed off Vladivostok at time of the flight)[62] on September 9 for further transfer to the destroyer USS Elliot to assume duties as Officer in Tactical Command (OTC) of the Search and Rescue (SAR) effort. Surface search began immediately and on into September 13. U.S. underwater operations began on September 14. On September 10, 1983, with no further hope of finding survivors, Task Force 71's mission had been reclassified from a "Search and Rescue" (SAR) operation to a "Search and Salvage" (SAS).[63]

On October 17, Rear Admiral William Cockell was relieved of command of the Task Force and its Search and Salvage mission, and Rear Admiral Walter T. Piotti, Jr., was placed in command. First to be searched was a 60 square mile "high probability" area. This was unsuccessful. On October 21, Task Force 71 extended its search within coordinates encompassing, in an arc around the Soviet territorial boundaries north of Moneron Island, an area of 225 square miles (583 km2), reaching to the west of Sakhalin Island. This was the "large probability" area. The search areas were outside the 12-mile Soviet-claimed territorial boundaries. The northwestern-most point of the search touched the Soviet territorial boundary closest to the naval port of Nevelsk on Sakhalin. Nevelsk was 46 nautical miles from Moneron. This larger search was also unsuccessful.[63]

The vessels used in the search, for the Soviet side as well as the Allied side (U.S., South Korea, Japan) were both civilian trawlers, especially equipped for both the SAR and SAS operations, and various types of warships and support ships. The Soviet side also employed both civilian and military divers. The Soviet search, beginning on the day of the shootdown and continuing until November 6, was confined to the 60 square mile "high probability" area in international waters, and within Soviet territorial waters to the north of Moneron Island. The area within Soviet territorial waters was off-limits to the U.S., South Korean, and Japanese boats. From September 3 to 29, four ships from the Republic of Korea had joined in the search.

Rear Admiral Walter T. Piotti Jr, commander of Task Force 71 of 7th Fleet would summarize the U.S. and Allied, and then the Soviets’, Search and Salvage operations:


“Not since the search for the hydrogen bomb lost off Palomares, Spain, has the U.S. Navy undertaken a search effort of the magnitude or import of the search for the wreckage of KAL Flight 007.”


“Within six days of the downing of KAL 007, the Soviets had deployed six ships to the general crash site area. Over the next 8 weeks of observation by U.S. naval units this number grew to a daily average of 19 Soviet naval, naval-associated and commercial (but undoubtedly naval-subordinated) ships in the Search and Salvage (SAS) area. The number of Soviet ships in the SAS area over this period ranged from a minimum of six to a maximum of thirty-two and included at least forty-eight different ships comprising forty different ship classes.”[64]

These missions met with interference by the Soviets,[65] in violation of the 1972 Incident at Sea agreement, and included false flag and fake light signals, sending an armed boarding party to threaten to board a U.S.-chartered Japanese auxiliary vessel (blocked by U.S. warship interposition), interfering with a helicopter coming off the USS Elliot (7 Sept.), attempted ramming of rigs used by the South Koreans in their quadrant search, hazardous maneuvering of the Gavril Sarychev and near-collision with the USS Callaghan (September 15, 18), removing U.S. sonars, setting false pingers in deep international waters, sending Backfire bombers armed with air-to-surface nuclear-armed missiles to threaten U.S. naval units, criss-crossing in front of U.S. combatant vessels (October 26), cutting and attempted cutting of moorings of Japanese auxiliary vessels, particularly the Kaiko Maru III, and radar lock-ons by a Soviet Kara-class cruiser, the Petropavlovsk, and a Kashin-class destroyer, the Odarennyy, targeting U.S. naval vessels. USS Towers, escorting USS Conserver, experienced all of the above interference and was involved in a near-collision with the Odarennyy (September 23–27).[66][67]

According to the ICAO: "The location of the main wreckage was not determined... the approximate position was

46°34′N 141°17′E, which was in international waters." This point is about 41 miles (66 km) from Moneron Island, about 45 miles (72 km) from the shore of Sakhalin and 33 miles (53 km) from the point of attack.[68]

Rear Admiral Walter T. Piotti Jr, commander of Task Force 71 of 7th Fleet, believed the search for KAL 007 in international waters to have been a search in the wrong place and assessed:[69]


"Had TF [task force] 71 been permitted to search without restriction imposed by claimed territorial waters, the aircraft stood a good chance of having been found. No wreckage of KAL 007 was found. However, the operation established, with a 95% or above confidence level, that the wreckage, or any significant portion of the aircraft, does not lie within the probability area outside the 12 nautical mile area claimed by the Soviets as their territorial limit."[35]

At a hearing of the ICAO on September 15, 1983, J. Lynn Helms, the head of the Federal Aviation Administration, stated:[5] "The U.S.S.R. has refused to permit search and rescue units from other countries to enter Soviet territorial waters to search for the remains of KAL 007. Moreover, the Soviet Union has blocked access to the likely crash site and has refused to cooperate with other interested parties, to ensure prompt recovery of all technical equipment, wreckage and other material."

We did a huge search, one of our largest and all in spite of repeated Soviet attempts to run us off and they FAILED just like your lies FAIL.

Lol, maybe you should go back to your day job.

Your an idiot. You posted a long report on how the US NAVY searched outside of the crash site and hence found nothing. It also gives great detail of how the Soviet's refused to give access to the crash site and prevented all ships from entering the crash site.

 

[JimBowie1958]

The point remains that Reagan waited 4 days to say anything about KAL 007. The outrage from the far right would be off the charts if Obama waited 4 days to say anything MH 17.

Yeah, some people just cant grasp the need to have facts behind them before making claims or accusations. Imagine that.

Exactly. What is the point of this thread now that you are admitting that we need to have facts before making claims or accusations?

The two points I made, dipshit.

1) we have a different importance on such incidents when we know there are a lot of Americans on board such flights. These are international incidents that affect us all and we shouldn't be so provincial in our reactions.

2) Obama sees this as a tragedy which means he sees it as something that was fated and inevitable based on, apparently, how he views Russian behavior. Reagan put the blame squarely on the Russians and held them responsible. He had to deal with a closed nation that we knew little of internally, while Obama has the direct knowledge that comes from todays international communications. Hell there is a video of the flight and the separatists have already admitted to shooting it down.

Reagan acted once he knew what happened and who did it, so why doesn't Obama?

But I have a question; why do ideological libtards like you constantly need people to spoon feed obvious facts to them?

 

[JimBowie1958]

Reagan made a moving speech. He was an actor. That is what he was trained to do. Now lets get real about the so called tough guy and his response.
When the US tried to send ships into the area to recover remains and debris floating in the water the Russian's chased them away. Reagan did not stand up to them. The US tried to use Japanese flagged vessels to conduct search and recovery operations. They were turned away. The US had a US Congressman shot out of the sky and did not investigate the crash site because a belligerent country responsible for the shoot down told the US they weren't allowed to investigate the crash site. Tough guy Reagan folded his hand behind his back and walked away pouting like a little girl.
The only action Reagan took was to reveal the top secret GPS system we use today. He revealed it and gave it to the world to use free of charge.

roflmao, you are such a stupid ass liar.

Korean Air Lines Flight 007 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Immediately after the shootdown, South Korea, owner of the aircraft and therefore prime considerant for jurisdiction, designated the United States and Japan as search and salvage agents, thereby making it illegal for the Soviet Union to salvage the aircraft, providing it was found outside Soviet territorial waters. If it did so, the United States would now be legally entitled to use force against the Soviets, if necessary, to prevent retrieval of any part of the plane.[61]

On the same day as the shootdown, Rear Admiral William A. Cockell, Commander, Task Force 71, and a skeleton staff, taken by helicopter from Japan, embarked in USS Badger (stationed off Vladivostok at time of the flight)[62] on September 9 for further transfer to the destroyer USS Elliot to assume duties as Officer in Tactical Command (OTC) of the Search and Rescue (SAR) effort. Surface search began immediately and on into September 13. U.S. underwater operations began on September 14. On September 10, 1983, with no further hope of finding survivors, Task Force 71's mission had been reclassified from a "Search and Rescue" (SAR) operation to a "Search and Salvage" (SAS).[63]

On October 17, Rear Admiral William Cockell was relieved of command of the Task Force and its Search and Salvage mission, and Rear Admiral Walter T. Piotti, Jr., was placed in command. First to be searched was a 60 square mile "high probability" area. This was unsuccessful. On October 21, Task Force 71 extended its search within coordinates encompassing, in an arc around the Soviet territorial boundaries north of Moneron Island, an area of 225 square miles (583 km2), reaching to the west of Sakhalin Island. This was the "large probability" area. The search areas were outside the 12-mile Soviet-claimed territorial boundaries. The northwestern-most point of the search touched the Soviet territorial boundary closest to the naval port of Nevelsk on Sakhalin. Nevelsk was 46 nautical miles from Moneron. This larger search was also unsuccessful.[63]

The vessels used in the search, for the Soviet side as well as the Allied side (U.S., South Korea, Japan) were both civilian trawlers, especially equipped for both the SAR and SAS operations, and various types of warships and support ships. The Soviet side also employed both civilian and military divers. The Soviet search, beginning on the day of the shootdown and continuing until November 6, was confined to the 60 square mile "high probability" area in international waters, and within Soviet territorial waters to the north of Moneron Island. The area within Soviet territorial waters was off-limits to the U.S., South Korean, and Japanese boats. From September 3 to 29, four ships from the Republic of Korea had joined in the search.

Rear Admiral Walter T. Piotti Jr, commander of Task Force 71 of 7th Fleet would summarize the U.S. and Allied, and then the Soviets’, Search and Salvage operations:


“Not since the search for the hydrogen bomb lost off Palomares, Spain, has the U.S. Navy undertaken a search effort of the magnitude or import of the search for the wreckage of KAL Flight 007.”


“Within six days of the downing of KAL 007, the Soviets had deployed six ships to the general crash site area. Over the next 8 weeks of observation by U.S. naval units this number grew to a daily average of 19 Soviet naval, naval-associated and commercial (but undoubtedly naval-subordinated) ships in the Search and Salvage (SAS) area. The number of Soviet ships in the SAS area over this period ranged from a minimum of six to a maximum of thirty-two and included at least forty-eight different ships comprising forty different ship classes.”[64]

These missions met with interference by the Soviets,[65] in violation of the 1972 Incident at Sea agreement, and included false flag and fake light signals, sending an armed boarding party to threaten to board a U.S.-chartered Japanese auxiliary vessel (blocked by U.S. warship interposition), interfering with a helicopter coming off the USS Elliot (7 Sept.), attempted ramming of rigs used by the South Koreans in their quadrant search, hazardous maneuvering of the Gavril Sarychev and near-collision with the USS Callaghan (September 15, 18), removing U.S. sonars, setting false pingers in deep international waters, sending Backfire bombers armed with air-to-surface nuclear-armed missiles to threaten U.S. naval units, criss-crossing in front of U.S. combatant vessels (October 26), cutting and attempted cutting of moorings of Japanese auxiliary vessels, particularly the Kaiko Maru III, and radar lock-ons by a Soviet Kara-class cruiser, the Petropavlovsk, and a Kashin-class destroyer, the Odarennyy, targeting U.S. naval vessels. USS Towers, escorting USS Conserver, experienced all of the above interference and was involved in a near-collision with the Odarennyy (September 23–27).[66][67]

According to the ICAO: "The location of the main wreckage was not determined... the approximate position was

46°34′N 141°17′E, which was in international waters." This point is about 41 miles (66 km) from Moneron Island, about 45 miles (72 km) from the shore of Sakhalin and 33 miles (53 km) from the point of attack.[68]

Rear Admiral Walter T. Piotti Jr, commander of Task Force 71 of 7th Fleet, believed the search for KAL 007 in international waters to have been a search in the wrong place and assessed:[69]


"Had TF [task force] 71 been permitted to search without restriction imposed by claimed territorial waters, the aircraft stood a good chance of having been found. No wreckage of KAL 007 was found. However, the operation established, with a 95% or above confidence level, that the wreckage, or any significant portion of the aircraft, does not lie within the probability area outside the 12 nautical mile area claimed by the Soviets as their territorial limit."[35]

At a hearing of the ICAO on September 15, 1983, J. Lynn Helms, the head of the Federal Aviation Administration, stated:[5] "The U.S.S.R. has refused to permit search and rescue units from other countries to enter Soviet territorial waters to search for the remains of KAL 007. Moreover, the Soviet Union has blocked access to the likely crash site and has refused to cooperate with other interested parties, to ensure prompt recovery of all technical equipment, wreckage and other material."

We did a huge search, one of our largest and all in spite of repeated Soviet attempts to run us off and they FAILED just like your lies FAIL.

Lol, maybe you should go back to your day job.

Your an idiot. You posted a long report on how the US NAVY searched outside of the crash site and hence found nothing. It also gives great detail of how the Soviet's refused to give access to the crash site and prevented all ships from entering the crash site.

Lol, you fucking retard, no one has the right by international law to INVADE another countries territorial waters to conduct a search.

lolololol, please go back to your overpass home, troll.

 

[Peach]

1983, 241 US service men killed in Lebanon, Reagan did -0-, except appoint a committee to "investgate".

 

[JimBowie1958]

Yeah, some people just cant grasp the need to have facts behind them before making claims or accusations. Imagine that.

Exactly. What is the point of this thread now that you are admitting that we need to have facts before making claims or accusations?

Look at your OP. You started this thread on assumptions, not confirmed facts. When that was pointed out you justified your assumptions as stuff everyone should know. Make up your mind.

Known facts as of this moment.

1) Malaysian flight was shot down.

2) Ukrainian rebels in east Ukraine claimed responsibility for shooting down what they thought was a Ukrainian government transport. When they found out it was a Malaysian flight, they pulled the statement.

3) The Russians have been supplying training and LEADING the rebels. They have their own specialists in the Ukraine posing as Ukrainians and operating the most advanced weapon systems like anti-aircraft systems.

4) It is very likely that Russian specialists did the shoot down and if it wasn't them it was people they trained; known FACT.

All adds up to the Russians responsibility, dumbass

 

[Katzndogz]

Well, the two points you have made are both confusing if not wrong. The aircraft KAL 007 shoot down was not an American aircraft. It was Korean. The second point you make indicates you know for sure that the Russian government was responsible. That isn't known at this time. Are you claiming Pres. Obama had knowledge of this at the time of the speech?

It has been claimed Obama ok'd the attack, and Putin's gang in the Ukraine are offering access to the crash site. Putin's gang here in the US are now trying to distance themselves from their KGB hero.

I seriously doubt that Obama OK'd this attack. Anyone that suggests such a thing is either a moron or a provocateur.

obama OK'd nothing. No one would bother asking him, or telling him. World leaders do not generally contact preschools to get the okay of toddlers playing with their blocks.