tens of millions of slaves, hundreds murdered everyday

[Tom Horn]

indeed. I voted for who I wanted to be president.
If that makes me a pussy, what does it make you voting for someone you didn't like until your guy was eliminated?

It makes me a pragmatist for going with the stronger dog, ya ninny.

 

[TNHarley]

indeed. I voted for who I wanted to be president.
If that makes me a pussy, what does it make you voting for someone you didn't like until your guy was eliminated?

It makes me a pragmatist for going with the stronger dog, ya ninny.

AKA partisan hack. If Hillary ran as a repub, you would have been sucking her 90 year old, lesbian demolished clit, welsher boy.

 

[miketx]

indeed. I voted for who I wanted to be president.
If that makes me a pussy, what does it make you voting for someone you didn't like until your guy was eliminated?

It makes me a pragmatist for going with the stronger dog, ya ninny.

AKA partisan hack. If Hillary ran as a repub, you would have been sucking her 90 year old, lesbian demolished clit, welsher boy.

That right there is a nasty thought!

 

[Tom Horn]

AKA partisan hack. If Hillary ran as a repub, you would have been sucking her 90 year old, lesbian demolished clit, welsher boy.

I ain't a republican fancy-pants, and ya can't welsh on a clown.

 

[toomuchtime_]

In other words, you would prefer the US remain irrelevant to the horrors in Syria because it can't stop rape in Africa? What is noteworthy here is not that we reacted so strongly to the chemical attacks, but that for eight years we did not react to the slaughter that was going on in Syria. America didn't bend over, it stood up for the first time in eight years.

I agree philosophically and I think it was the only correct option available at this point, but we may have stood up just to get knocked flat on our ass. We'll get back up, but this could be the beginning of a war with more than Syria. I hope I'm wrong.

Me too. I HOPE this is only a firm warning. I don't think that attack is enough for them to retaliate, but if something happens again.. who knows.
I hope to goodness they don't try to take over that country and fail like they do EVERY TIME.

No worries, TN. If Assad falls, Russia will take over Syria.

Do you seriously think Russia wants to send an army to fight the rebels in Syria?

No more than we do, I presume. I hope things work out exactly as you have predicted. I don't think Russia would leave a vacuum, though, unless they've made buddies with the radicals who are poised to take over. If we go back to our noninterventionist strategy, as Tillerson assured the public last night that we were, what choice would Russia have? They're already there, anyway.

Russia left a vacuum in Afghanistan when that war became too expensive and unpopular so it is not inconceivable Russia might choose to cut its losses in Syria, too, but what if the US said we will support Russia keeping its port at Tartus if Russia will partner with us in getting rid of Assad and helping to stabilize Syria? What if this served as a model for dealing with disputes in eastern Europe? What if after working together in Syria, the US and Russia agree that the US will get NATO and the EU to pull back from former Warsaw Pact states on condition that Russia not interfere in their internal politics and the US and Russia sign protocols that if conditions arise in these states that might threaten Russia security, the US and Russia will act jointly to resolve these issues? How would that be for a new world order?

 

[Tom Horn]

That right there is a nasty thought!

He's a sick puppy.

 

[candycorn]

EXCELLENT IDEA!

Theoretically. If they can split up the oil fields and pipelines and access to the Mediterranean. Otherwise, do you really think those two groups will leave each other alone?

No. History has shown us that our interventionism doesn't help. In most cases, makes it worse.
Foreigners coming in to tell people how to run their lives wouldn't work good. Wouldn't you think?

I agree. It has taken many years to get Iraq halfway stable, and Iraq and Afghanistan both are begging us to stay and continue to offer logistical support. I don't have an issue with that, if a country wants/needs it in order to prevent it becoming a radical fiefdom of the terrorists.

It would help if the people who are voting did not elect radicals to start with. There is zero guarantee that the rebels would be any better than the incumbent. This isn’t our fight. We shouldn’t be doing anything in Syria.

Oh, I understand your point, but last night felt so GOOD. Even knowing that I may well rue the day it ever happened. The Middle East is such a complex knot of string and we have been crying "It's hopeless" for too long; feeling helpless and hopeless is frustrating. I would have preferred we join with the UN in reacting, but of course the Russians stopped that idea in its tracks. So to me, giving someone a good slap felt good. We didn't kill 80+ civilians sleeping in their beds, and we even notified Russian ground troops to bug out ahead of time. I don't know how we could have been anymore chivalric about it and still shown Assad we have claws.

You think Assad is scared of us?

 

[OldLady]

I agree philosophically and I think it was the only correct option available at this point, but we may have stood up just to get knocked flat on our ass. We'll get back up, but this could be the beginning of a war with more than Syria. I hope I'm wrong.

Me too. I HOPE this is only a firm warning. I don't think that attack is enough for them to retaliate, but if something happens again.. who knows.
I hope to goodness they don't try to take over that country and fail like they do EVERY TIME.

No worries, TN. If Assad falls, Russia will take over Syria.

Do you seriously think Russia wants to send an army to fight the rebels in Syria?

No more than we do, I presume. I hope things work out exactly as you have predicted. I don't think Russia would leave a vacuum, though, unless they've made buddies with the radicals who are poised to take over. If we go back to our noninterventionist strategy, as Tillerson assured the public last night that we were, what choice would Russia have? They're already there, anyway.

Russia left a vacuum in Afghanistan when that war became too expensive and unpopular so it is not inconceivable Russia might choose to cut its losses in Syria, too, but what if the US said we will support Russia keeping its port at Tartus if Russia will partner with us in getting rid of Assad and helping to stabilize Syria? What if this served as a model for dealing with disputes in eastern Europe? What if after working together in Syria, the US and Russia agree that the US will get NATO and the EU to pull back from former Warsaw Pact states on condition that Russia not interfere in their internal politics and the US and Russia sign protocols that if conditions arise in these states that might threaten Russia security, the US and Russia will act jointly to resolve these issues? How would that be for a new world order?

Based on Russia's recent behavior in Crimea and Georgia, I don't know if I would trust them with that type of agreement.

 

[TNHarley]

OldLady
Did you see my post with the link of the radar? Where it also said mattis wouldn't admit it was Syria?

 

[Tom Horn]

You think Assad is scared of us?

I'd bet my truck on it after last night.

 

[OldLady]

Theoretically. If they can split up the oil fields and pipelines and access to the Mediterranean. Otherwise, do you really think those two groups will leave each other alone?

No. History has shown us that our interventionism doesn't help. In most cases, makes it worse.
Foreigners coming in to tell people how to run their lives wouldn't work good. Wouldn't you think?

I agree. It has taken many years to get Iraq halfway stable, and Iraq and Afghanistan both are begging us to stay and continue to offer logistical support. I don't have an issue with that, if a country wants/needs it in order to prevent it becoming a radical fiefdom of the terrorists.

It would help if the people who are voting did not elect radicals to start with. There is zero guarantee that the rebels would be any better than the incumbent. This isn’t our fight. We shouldn’t be doing anything in Syria.

Oh, I understand your point, but last night felt so GOOD. Even knowing that I may well rue the day it ever happened. The Middle East is such a complex knot of string and we have been crying "It's hopeless" for too long; feeling helpless and hopeless is frustrating. I would have preferred we join with the UN in reacting, but of course the Russians stopped that idea in its tracks. So to me, giving someone a good slap felt good. We didn't kill 80+ civilians sleeping in their beds, and we even notified Russian ground troops to bug out ahead of time. I don't know how we could have been anymore chivalric about it and still shown Assad we have claws.

You think Assad is scared of us?

What's your point? If he keeps in mind that there are consequences for committing war crimes, that's a plus.

 

[Papageorgio]

What is the exit plan for Syria? What is the goal? When we put American lives on the line, we need to know why, we need good reasons, so far we have nothing. Very disappointing.

I find no reason not to be cynical about it so here it goes:

At some point there will be blowback for this. When it does, the “Muslims are animals” people get more ammunition for their cause. If it comes from the Syrian quarter…even better. The only “good” reason I can see is a strategic reason to prop up the crazy immigration measures the administration has taken.

We need to restrict and background check all immigrants, we need to leave the Middle East and not comeback, they will soon kill each other without our help. The only other alternative is to go and have an all out non PC war.

 

[OldLady]

OldLady
Did you see my post with the link of the radar? Where it also said mattis wouldn't admit it was Syria?

Yes. You're not going to admit Assad did this, no matter what evidence is accumulated, not even if Mattis tells you so.

 

[toomuchtime_]

Me too. I HOPE this is only a firm warning. I don't think that attack is enough for them to retaliate, but if something happens again.. who knows.
I hope to goodness they don't try to take over that country and fail like they do EVERY TIME.

No worries, TN. If Assad falls, Russia will take over Syria.

Do you seriously think Russia wants to send an army to fight the rebels in Syria?

No more than we do, I presume. I hope things work out exactly as you have predicted. I don't think Russia would leave a vacuum, though, unless they've made buddies with the radicals who are poised to take over. If we go back to our noninterventionist strategy, as Tillerson assured the public last night that we were, what choice would Russia have? They're already there, anyway.

Russia left a vacuum in Afghanistan when that war became too expensive and unpopular so it is not inconceivable Russia might choose to cut its losses in Syria, too, but what if the US said we will support Russia keeping its port at Tartus if Russia will partner with us in getting rid of Assad and helping to stabilize Syria? What if this served as a model for dealing with disputes in eastern Europe? What if after working together in Syria, the US and Russia agree that the US will get NATO and the EU to pull back from former Warsaw Pact states on condition that Russia not interfere in their internal politics and the US and Russia sign protocols that if conditions arise in these states that might threaten Russia security, the US and Russia will act jointly to resolve these issues? How would that be for a new world order?

Based on Russia's recent behavior in Crimea and Georgia, I don't know if I would trust them with that type of agreement.

Trust them? Should the Russians trust us? Gorbachev liberated the USSR satellite states on Bush41's promise the US would prevent them from joining NATO, an organization formed to fight Russia, but Bill Clinton broke that promise and allowed several of them to join NATO. Russia protested, but Russia was weak and poor at the time, so Clinton ignored their protest. Russia protested to Bush43 and he proposed putting missiles and long range radars in some of these same countries. Russia protested to Obama and while Obama agreed to move the radars to US ships in the vicinity, he sent thousands of US troops to countries bordering Russia and held joint military exercises near the Russian border. The question is, how can we persuade Russia to trust us again?

 

[TNHarley]

OldLady
Did you see my post with the link of the radar? Where it also said mattis wouldn't admit it was Syria?

Yes. You're not going to admit Assad did this, no matter what evidence is accumulated, not even if Mattis tells you so.

yes I would. I don't deny actual evidence, I just deny word of mouth. Humans lie CONSTANTLY. Politicians and war mongers lie even more.
Tracking the radar makes sense to me. However, if it showed it was Syria, why did mattis not admit it?

 

[candycorn]

No. History has shown us that our interventionism doesn't help. In most cases, makes it worse.
Foreigners coming in to tell people how to run their lives wouldn't work good. Wouldn't you think?

I agree. It has taken many years to get Iraq halfway stable, and Iraq and Afghanistan both are begging us to stay and continue to offer logistical support. I don't have an issue with that, if a country wants/needs it in order to prevent it becoming a radical fiefdom of the terrorists.

It would help if the people who are voting did not elect radicals to start with. There is zero guarantee that the rebels would be any better than the incumbent. This isn’t our fight. We shouldn’t be doing anything in Syria.

Oh, I understand your point, but last night felt so GOOD. Even knowing that I may well rue the day it ever happened. The Middle East is such a complex knot of string and we have been crying "It's hopeless" for too long; feeling helpless and hopeless is frustrating. I would have preferred we join with the UN in reacting, but of course the Russians stopped that idea in its tracks. So to me, giving someone a good slap felt good. We didn't kill 80+ civilians sleeping in their beds, and we even notified Russian ground troops to bug out ahead of time. I don't know how we could have been anymore chivalric about it and still shown Assad we have claws.

You think Assad is scared of us?

What's your point? If he keeps in mind that there are consequences for committing war crimes, that's a plus.

I’m pretty sure he knew there were consequences way before he did it. I’m equally pretty sure that he doesn’t care.

 

[TNHarley]

I agree. It has taken many years to get Iraq halfway stable, and Iraq and Afghanistan both are begging us to stay and continue to offer logistical support. I don't have an issue with that, if a country wants/needs it in order to prevent it becoming a radical fiefdom of the terrorists.

It would help if the people who are voting did not elect radicals to start with. There is zero guarantee that the rebels would be any better than the incumbent. This isn’t our fight. We shouldn’t be doing anything in Syria.

Oh, I understand your point, but last night felt so GOOD. Even knowing that I may well rue the day it ever happened. The Middle East is such a complex knot of string and we have been crying "It's hopeless" for too long; feeling helpless and hopeless is frustrating. I would have preferred we join with the UN in reacting, but of course the Russians stopped that idea in its tracks. So to me, giving someone a good slap felt good. We didn't kill 80+ civilians sleeping in their beds, and we even notified Russian ground troops to bug out ahead of time. I don't know how we could have been anymore chivalric about it and still shown Assad we have claws.

You think Assad is scared of us?

What's your point? If he keeps in mind that there are consequences for committing war crimes, that's a plus.

I’m pretty sure he knew there were consequences way before he did it. I’m equally pretty sure that he doesn’t care.

if he did do it, he obviously doesn't care.

 

[OldLady]

OldLady
Did you see my post with the link of the radar? Where it also said mattis wouldn't admit it was Syria?

Yes. You're not going to admit Assad did this, no matter what evidence is accumulated, not even if Mattis tells you so.

yes I would. I don't deny actual evidence, I just deny word of mouth. Humans lie CONSTANTLY. Politicians and war mongers lie even more.
Tracking the radar makes sense to me. However, if it showed it was Syria, why did mattis not admit it?

Yeah, I'll hold you to that. I don't believe anyone is being a war monger here, or that we are being lied to about who made the chemical attack. Sincerely, I don't. Assad deserves what he got--actually he deserves to be gassed in the town square, in front of the world.

 

[candycorn]

It would help if the people who are voting did not elect radicals to start with. There is zero guarantee that the rebels would be any better than the incumbent. This isn’t our fight. We shouldn’t be doing anything in Syria.

Oh, I understand your point, but last night felt so GOOD. Even knowing that I may well rue the day it ever happened. The Middle East is such a complex knot of string and we have been crying "It's hopeless" for too long; feeling helpless and hopeless is frustrating. I would have preferred we join with the UN in reacting, but of course the Russians stopped that idea in its tracks. So to me, giving someone a good slap felt good. We didn't kill 80+ civilians sleeping in their beds, and we even notified Russian ground troops to bug out ahead of time. I don't know how we could have been anymore chivalric about it and still shown Assad we have claws.

You think Assad is scared of us?

What's your point? If he keeps in mind that there are consequences for committing war crimes, that's a plus.

I’m pretty sure he knew there were consequences way before he did it. I’m equally pretty sure that he doesn’t care.

if he did do it, he obviously doesn't care.

It reminds me of the “get tough on drugs” BS…we’re going to have the death penalty for drug kingpins. As if the drug kingpins don’t live from day to day with the threat of death staring them right in the face.

 

[OldLady]

I agree. It has taken many years to get Iraq halfway stable, and Iraq and Afghanistan both are begging us to stay and continue to offer logistical support. I don't have an issue with that, if a country wants/needs it in order to prevent it becoming a radical fiefdom of the terrorists.

It would help if the people who are voting did not elect radicals to start with. There is zero guarantee that the rebels would be any better than the incumbent. This isn’t our fight. We shouldn’t be doing anything in Syria.

Oh, I understand your point, but last night felt so GOOD. Even knowing that I may well rue the day it ever happened. The Middle East is such a complex knot of string and we have been crying "It's hopeless" for too long; feeling helpless and hopeless is frustrating. I would have preferred we join with the UN in reacting, but of course the Russians stopped that idea in its tracks. So to me, giving someone a good slap felt good. We didn't kill 80+ civilians sleeping in their beds, and we even notified Russian ground troops to bug out ahead of time. I don't know how we could have been anymore chivalric about it and still shown Assad we have claws.

You think Assad is scared of us?

What's your point? If he keeps in mind that there are consequences for committing war crimes, that's a plus.

I’m pretty sure he knew there were consequences way before he did it. I’m equally pretty sure that he doesn’t care.

Oh, I see. It was a useless gesture. That's your pov?