Term Limits Amendment

[Boss]

I would suggest you move to France if you prefer their system.

That's going to be easier than amending our Constitution.

 

[Dr Grump]

No. We're not.

100 per cent. You are a constitutional republic. That is a form of democracy.

 

[HenryBHough]

I believe President Trump would sign it.

But I also understand that it will never pass either house or senate.

Also I don't believe there's any existing mechanism for a public vote on term limits but hope I am wrong.

 

[Boss]

No. We're not.

100 per cent. You are a constitutional republic. That is a form of democracy.

No, that is incorrect.

A constitutional republic is NOT a democracy of any kind. It utilizes democracy in the election of representatives but that doesn't make it a form of democracy.

It's akin to saying MMA fighting is a form of Judo... it's not. It utilizes aspects of Judo but it's not a form of Judo.

 

[Boss]

I believe President Trump would sign it.

But I also understand that it will never pass either house or senate.

Also I don't believe there's any existing mechanism for a public vote on term limits but hope I am wrong.

I don't understand why it wouldn't pass if 74% of the people favor it and only 13% oppose it. If congressional representatives listen to their constituents, it should pass easily in both houses. It will also be ratified very easily.

But again... if Congress fails to act, this can be done through the states and an Article V convention. There are already a growing number of states currently working on this. Keep in mind, we've never amended the Constitution through an Article V convention because any time we've come close, the Congress has headed it off by acting itself. This is their opportunity to do that in this case.

 

[HenryBHough]

Apathy is a cruel master, Boss.

 

[Dr Grump]

No, that is incorrect.

A constitutional republic is NOT a democracy of any kind. It utilizes democracy in the election of representatives but that doesn't make it a form of democracy.

It's akin to saying MMA fighting is a form of Judo... it's not. It utilizes aspects of Judo but it's not a form of Judo.

Sorry, you don't get to decide what a word means.
democracy

com
noun, plural democracies.
1.
government by the people; a form of government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised directly by them or by their elected agents under a free electoral system.
2.
a state having such a form of government:
The United States and Canada are democracies.
3.
a state of society characterized by formal equality of rights and privileges.
4.
political or social equality; democratic spirit.
5.
the common people of a community as distinguished from any privileged class; the common people with respect to their political power.

 

[Boss]

No, that is incorrect.

A constitutional republic is NOT a democracy of any kind. It utilizes democracy in the election of representatives but that doesn't make it a form of democracy.

It's akin to saying MMA fighting is a form of Judo... it's not. It utilizes aspects of Judo but it's not a form of Judo.

Sorry, you don't get to decide what a word means.
democracy

com
noun, plural democracies.
1.
government by the people; a form of government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised directly by them or by their elected agents under a free electoral system.
2.
a state having such a form of government:
The United States and Canada are democracies.
3.
a state of society characterized by formal equality of rights and privileges.
4.
political or social equality; democratic spirit.
5.
the common people of a community as distinguished from any privileged class; the common people with respect to their political power.

Noun
republic ‎(plural republics)

1. A state where sovereignty rests with the people or their representatives, rather than with a monarch or emperor; a country with no monarchy.
   The United States is a republic; the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland is a constitutional monarchy.‎

 

[Boss]

No, that is incorrect.

A constitutional republic is NOT a democracy of any kind. It utilizes democracy in the election of representatives but that doesn't make it a form of democracy.

It's akin to saying MMA fighting is a form of Judo... it's not. It utilizes aspects of Judo but it's not a form of Judo.

Sorry, you don't get to decide what a word means.
democracy

com
noun, plural democracies.
1.
government by the people; a form of government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised directly by them or by their elected agents under a free electoral system.
2.
a state having such a form of government:
The United States and Canada are democracies.
3.
a state of society characterized by formal equality of rights and privileges.
4.
political or social equality; democratic spirit.
5.
the common people of a community as distinguished from any privileged class; the common people with respect to their political power.

Article IV Section 4 of the Constitution states: "The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion . . .

The document does not mention the word "democracy."

 

[Boss]

No, that is incorrect.

A constitutional republic is NOT a democracy of any kind. It utilizes democracy in the election of representatives but that doesn't make it a form of democracy.

It's akin to saying MMA fighting is a form of Judo... it's not. It utilizes aspects of Judo but it's not a form of Judo.

Sorry, you don't get to decide what a word means.
democracy

com
noun, plural democracies.
1.
government by the people; a form of government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised directly by them or by their elected agents under a free electoral system.
2.
a state having such a form of government:
The United States and Canada are democracies.
3.
a state of society characterized by formal equality of rights and privileges.
4.
political or social equality; democratic spirit.
5.
the common people of a community as distinguished from any privileged class; the common people with respect to their political power.

Constitutional republic - Simple English Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
A constitutional republic is a state in which the head of state and other officials are representatives of the people. They must govern within an existing constitution.

In a constitutional republic, executive, legislative, and judicial powers may be separated into distinct branches.[1]

A state is constitutional if a constitution limits the government's power. If the people choose by election the head(s) of state and other officials, then the state is a republic. The United States of America and Republic of Iceland are examples of constitutional republics.

 

[Boss]

noun, plural democracies.
1.
government by the people; a form of government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised directly by them or by their elected agents under a free electoral system.

Herein lies the problem... this is NOT our form of government, else there could be no electoral college, no supreme court, no senate and no such thing as a "super-majority" in Congress. All of those things are a direct affront to a "democracy."

In a democracy, the majority rules. This means 50% +1 wins every time. That is NOT the case in our system of government. We have a bicameral congress designed to represent both the people and the state. A "democracy" is ruled only by the people or their agents. We have a Supreme Court who can rule in cases where a "democratic" majority may rule otherwise with regard to constitutional rights. We have a Senate which consists of two senators per state regardless of the population. All appropriations and funding bills in Congress require 2/3rds majority for passage instead of 50% +1, which would be a "democracy." We elect presidents with an electoral college vote instead of a popular (democratic) majority vote. Even in the ratification of Constitutional Amendments, we are NOT a democracy. We require 3/5ths of the states to amend the constitution... in a democracy, we would only need 50% +1.

IF you bother to take the time to READ the Federalist Papers, you can discover that our brilliant framers were very fearful of a democracy. They could have established a democracy but they chose NOT to do so. Now.... you can remain woefully ignorant and continue to parrot left-wing liberal idiocy all over the place... I don't really care. The FACT remains, we are NOT a democracy and never have been. We ARE a constitutional republic.

 

[Boss]

Sorry, you don't get to decide what a word means.

Sorry... YOU don't get to override the Constitution, fuckwit.

 

[there4eyeM]

No, that is incorrect.

A constitutional republic is NOT a democracy of any kind. It utilizes democracy in the election of representatives but that doesn't make it a form of democracy.

It's akin to saying MMA fighting is a form of Judo... it's not. It utilizes aspects of Judo but it's not a form of Judo.

Sorry, you don't get to decide what a word means.
democracy

com
noun, plural democracies.
1.
government by the people; a form of government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised directly by them or by their elected agents under a free electoral system.
2.
a state having such a form of government:
The United States and Canada are democracies.
3.
a state of society characterized by formal equality of rights and privileges.
4.
political or social equality; democratic spirit.
5.
the common people of a community as distinguished from any privileged class; the common people with respect to their political power.

Pearls before pig-like profanity. Nice of you to make the case (again, as it's been so often made for these obtuse), but you waste your reasonable time with such as treat you with such terms as are seen in this thread.

 

[Boss]

Nice of you to make the case....

He didn't make the case, he LOST the case, bucko!

 

[Dr Grump]

Noun
republic ‎(plural republics)

1. A state where sovereignty rests with the people or their representatives, rather than with a monarch or emperor; a country with no monarchy.
   The United States is a republic; the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland is a constitutional monarchy.‎

And they are all forms of democracy. I know you righties hate the term because you believe your form of govt is the best out there (in terms of the western world, IMO it is the second worst after the UK) and that the world 'democracy' gives you the shits ("oh, the tyranny of the majority!! We are doomed!"). Be that as it may, the US is a democracy. A constitutional republic, but a democracy nonetheless. As is the UK.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Sneator Cruz has co-sponsored an Amendment resolution to the Constitution.

Sen. Cruz and Rep. DeSantis Introduce Constitutional Amendment To Impose Term Limits On Members of Congress | Ted Cruz | U.S. Senator for Texas

WASHINGTON, D.C. – U.S. Sen. Ted Cruz (R-Texas) and U.S. Rep. Ron DeSantis (R-Fla.) today proposed an amendment to the U.S. Constitution to impose term limits on members of Congress. The amendment would limit U.S. senators to two six-year terms and members of the U.S. House of Representatives to three two-year terms.

The enduring concept of a citizen legislature, of limiting unruly influence and abuse of power, and of promoting integrity and unclouded judgment in Washington through congressional term limits is a priority strongly supported by the American people. According to an October Rasmussen survey, 74 percent of Americans support establishing term limits for all members of Congress, while only 13 percent oppose term limits.

Thoughts?

Yeah, I'm opposed. The authority to impose term limits is not granted to the Congress under Art. I, sec 8; for Republican's to introduce such a limit proves what hypocrites they are, and ignores their usual claim that such a matter not enumerated should be left to the states or to the people (10th A.). In fact it is left to the people, who can return their senators to office every 6th year, or not.

 

[Wry Catcher]

The other problem I can foresee is the nation's power elite can groom a person to be a US Senator, provide him or her the tools and funds necessary to be elected, and if/when the sham is elected they would own his or her vote for 12 years. ; 24 if s/he went from the H.of R. to the Senate.

 

[Boss]

Yeah, I'm opposed. The authority to impose term limits is not granted to the Congress under Art. I, sec 8; for Republican's to introduce such a limit proves what hypocrites they are, and ignores their usual claim that such a matter not enumerated should be left to the states or to the people (10th A.). In fact it is left to the people, who can return their senators to office every 6th year, or not.

Do you not understand what Constitutional Amendments are?

 

[Boss]

The other problem I can foresee is the nation's power elite can groom a person to be a US Senator, provide him or her the tools and funds necessary to be elected, and if/when the sham is elected they would own his or her vote for 12 years. ; 24 if s/he went from the H.of R. to the Senate.

Nope... 18 is the max under any scenario... read the Amendment again.

And why can't they already do that, except with an unlimited period of time?

 

[Dr Grump]

Sorry, you don't get to decide what a word means.

Sorry... YOU don't get to override the Constitution, fuckwit.

I'm not over riding anything. Not my fault you can't understand a simple concept. Mind you, I'm guessing you voted for Trump....not the brightest bulb in the socket are you?