Texas Plant's Hazards Eluded Regulators For Nearly 30 Years

[Quantum Windbag]

What annoyed me.

Noted Retard Rick Perry was in IL inviting business to relocate to Texas yesterday.

Because his state is more friendly to business.

In that they don't have all those pesky safety regulators telling a real man how to run his business, I guess.

Brown does the same thing, and you don't complain about that even though he allowed PG&E to not inspect pipes.

Why is that?

 

[Old Rocks]

Oh great... Calls for more government control, as if that would stop accidents like this from happening. It was a fertilizer plant fer crissakes. It couldn't possibly be 100% hazard free, but it's a necessary evil if we want fertilizer for our crops I would suspect.

A lot of your posts make sense. The one above does not. And this is not a debate, so no discussion shall follow.

An honest plant manager would not have let that happen. The accident was EASILY avoidable by following EXISTING regulations, which sight unseen, I'd bet my life were not followed.

What we are looking at in West, Tejas, is a crime scene. And there isn't a doubt about it.

What is in doubt is if the fucking government has enough strength left to prosecute.

I'm only saying that accidents can and do happen when companies deal with highly flammable and explosive products... It's just a fact of life. No government agency will ever make dealing with these products completely safe.

There is a differance between an accident and deliberate criminal carelessness. And the evidence is mounting that what happened in West, Texas, was criminal negligence. Ten burgleries, yet no safeguards put into place. There was certainly enough ammonium nitrate there to do another Oklahoma City.

 

[Old Rocks]

WEST, Texas -- Long before it captured national headlines as the scene of a lethal industrial explosion, the fertilizer plant on the edge of this central Texas town had been a community fixture, a crucial supply depot for farmers and ranchers who worked the surrounding pastures.

No one seemed to regard it as a threat.

"It's been there so long that you just take it for granted," said Jeanette Karlik, a columnist for the local newspaper, the West News.

That same attitude -- the assumption that nothing of consequence could go wrong here -- appears to have shaped the actions of the seven or more state and federal regulatory agencies that collectively shared oversight responsibility for the plant, according to a Huffington Post investigation.

Through interviews with former regulators and community leaders, as well as a review of hundreds of pages of documents going back to 1976, a sense emerges that no institution sounded the alarm here, even as fertilizer piled up inside the plant, creating a potentially deadly tinderbox in close proximity to the town. No one effectively prepared for the emergency that eventually materialized, leaving this community uniquely vulnerable to the tragedy that unfolded last week when the plant caught fire and exploded, killing 14 people and ripping apart an apartment building, a school and dozens of homes.

West Fertilizer Plant's Hazards Eluded Regulators For Nearly 30 Years

You do know they haven't found the cause of ignition yet, right? Until then you don't know what contributed to the explosion or did not contribute.

And since when did hufflepuffle get an industrial accident investigator on its staff?

Good God! Ever hear of Texas City? How about Roseburg, Oregon?

The cause of the ignition is real simple. Fire, you know, heat. Ammonium nitrate tends to explode when exposed to heat. So why were not the firefighters notified of the amount of exposive in that facility? There should be a bunch of company officials facing 10 counts of negligent homocide.

 

[Old Rocks]

I'm only saying that accidents can and do happen when companies deal with highly flammable and explosive products... It's just a fact of life. No government agency will ever make dealing with these products completely safe.

But maybe having a 1,000 plus times less of the chemical per the regulations, would have prevented loss of life. Of course that would have involved following set regulations!

Considering that they actually ruled out the ammonium nitrate as the source of the fire I don't see how you can say that and consider yourself honest.

Then again, I don't know if you consider yourself honest.

Authorities rule out some potential causes of Texas blast - CNN.com

By the way, did you here that they arrested one of the first responders to the fire for having bomb materials?

Criminal probe started into Texas fertilizer plant blast - CNN.com

Just something to think about.

By the way, having that much ammonium nitrate on hand does not violate any safety regs.

Dumb ass, ammonium nitrate does not burn, it explodes when exposed to enough heat. Texas City.

 

[bodecea]

Oh great... Calls for more government control, as if that would stop accidents like this from happening. It was a fertilizer plant fer crissakes. It couldn't possibly be 100% hazard free, but it's a necessary evil if we want fertilizer for our crops I would suspect.

I think it's fine the way it is in Texas. They want to built volatile material plants near homes and schools...more power to them.

 

[bodecea]

I'm only saying that accidents can and do happen when companies deal with highly flammable and explosive products... It's just a fact of life. No government agency will ever make dealing with these products completely safe.

But maybe having a 1,000 plus times less of the chemical per the regulations, would have prevented loss of life. Of course that would have involved following set regulations!

Considering that they actually ruled out the ammonium nitrate as the source of the fire I don't see how you can say that and consider yourself honest.

Then again, I don't know if you consider yourself honest.

Authorities rule out some potential causes of Texas blast - CNN.com

By the way, did you here that they arrested one of the first responders to the fire for having bomb materials?

Criminal probe started into Texas fertilizer plant blast - CNN.com

Just something to think about.

By the way, having that much ammonium nitrate on hand does not violate any safety regs.

Wait! You mean they LIED?????

 

[Quantum Windbag]

But maybe having a 1,000 plus times less of the chemical per the regulations, would have prevented loss of life. Of course that would have involved following set regulations!

Considering that they actually ruled out the ammonium nitrate as the source of the fire I don't see how you can say that and consider yourself honest.

Then again, I don't know if you consider yourself honest.

Authorities rule out some potential causes of Texas blast - CNN.com

By the way, did you here that they arrested one of the first responders to the fire for having bomb materials?

Criminal probe started into Texas fertilizer plant blast - CNN.com

Just something to think about.

By the way, having that much ammonium nitrate on hand does not violate any safety regs.

Dumb ass, ammonium nitrate does not burn, it explodes when exposed to enough heat. Texas City.

Old Rocks, the expert in fake science, is wrong again.

Ammonium nitrate is actually a relative safe chemical compound, much less volatile than most explosives, which is why it is the go to explosive in modern industry. Unless you get everything exactly right you are more like to end up with a bunch of smoke, the the Times Square bomber did, than an actual explosion.

What actually happens when you ignite ammonium nitrate is that it produces oxygen, which makes the fire hotter, resulting in more ammonium nitrate burning, and more oxygen. This eventually leads to an explosion of the oxygen, not the ammonium nitrate, and will only happen if you have it in a sealed container that allows pressure to build up. In a regular building, or a railroad car, the worst that will happen is flashover when the oxygen levels get high enough for them to ignite.

If you actually understood basic chemistry you would be focusing on the anhydrous ammonia that the plant stored as the most likely culprit.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Oh great... Calls for more government control, as if that would stop accidents like this from happening. It was a fertilizer plant fer crissakes. It couldn't possibly be 100% hazard free, but it's a necessary evil if we want fertilizer for our crops I would suspect.

I think it's fine the way it is in Texas. They want to built volatile material plants near homes and schools...more power to them.

I am willing to bet you right now that I could find things in your house that are a lot more volatile than the ammonium nitrate that you think is the worst thing in the world. Plus, they built the homes close to the plant, not the other way around, that is the way things work in the real world.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

But maybe having a 1,000 plus times less of the chemical per the regulations, would have prevented loss of life. Of course that would have involved following set regulations!

Considering that they actually ruled out the ammonium nitrate as the source of the fire I don't see how you can say that and consider yourself honest.

Then again, I don't know if you consider yourself honest.

Authorities rule out some potential causes of Texas blast - CNN.com

By the way, did you here that they arrested one of the first responders to the fire for having bomb materials?

Criminal probe started into Texas fertilizer plant blast - CNN.com

Just something to think about.

By the way, having that much ammonium nitrate on hand does not violate any safety regs.

Wait! You mean they LIED?????

Who lied? The reporters? The investigators never said anything, probably because they understand that the only way you can get an ammonium nitrate explosion is to pack it in a tight container, ignite it, and wait for the oxygen to explode.

 

[rdean]

Wasn't the BP spill/explosion also the result of lack of regulations being enforced for years?
West Fertilizer should be made to pay big time and shut down. If any federal or state agency didn't do their job, they should be liable.

You have it all wrong. BP was Obama's fault. Which is why Republicans apologized to BP and stopped the Obama administration from doing any investigation.

Subpoena power in BP oil spill investigation blocked by Senate Republicans

 

[Dugdale_Jukes]

Oh great... Calls for more government control, as if that would stop accidents like this from happening. It was a fertilizer plant fer crissakes. It couldn't possibly be 100% hazard free, but it's a necessary evil if we want fertilizer for our crops I would suspect.

A lot of your posts make sense. The one above does not. And this is not a debate, so no discussion shall follow.

An honest plant manager would not have let that happen. The accident was EASILY avoidable by following EXISTING regulations, which sight unseen, I'd bet my life were not followed.

What we are looking at in West, Tejas, is a crime scene. And there isn't a doubt about it.

What is in doubt is if the fucking government has enough moral and legal integrity left to prosecute.

The PUC in California recently ruled that PG&E should pay $2.5 billion for violating dozens of federal, and state, safety rules and completely mismanaging their pipelines over a period of decades. I wonder, is there a reason that you are not pointing to this disaster as proof that we need more regulations and demanding prosecutors file charges?

Could it be because they actually have all those regulations in California, and it didn't help?

No offense to you, but there is no post on record in my life seeking MORE regulation. To the contrary, my objectives are to get rid of conflicting regs, change and enforcing common sense existing regulation by making safety violations criminal offenses as well as civil liabilities including seizure of personal assets for heinous crimes against public safety followed by mandatory prison sentences for corporate executives who tolerating subordinates criminal dereliction.

Similarly, government workers discovered to have missed or tolerated safety hazards should be prosecuted for malfeasance and sentenced to jail.

It is my belief that an army of worthless fucking government workers does nothing but add misery to many lives and does nothing to protect anyone.

However, prison sentences and stripping away the corporate veil to seize personal assets of corporate executives that tolerated unsafe practices has been proven effective. West Virginia was well on the way to recovering most of the land desolated by years of absentee owner desecration in 1980. By 1983 safety enforcement was nonexistent, mine unions were being broken, and miners were well on their way back to the days of company housing and company stores; little more than chattel in other words.

Today many mountain top removal areas look more like 1960 than abandoned strip mines did in 1960.

My larger point is that it doesn't have to be this way. It can be better.

 

[rdean]

Wasn't the BP spill/explosion also the result of lack of regulations being enforced for years?
West Fertilizer should be made to pay big time and shut down. If any federal or state agency didn't do their job, they should be liable.

You have it all wrong. BP was Obama's fault. Which is why Republicans apologized to BP and stopped the Obama administration from doing any investigation.

Subpoena power in BP oil spill investigation blocked by Senate Republicans

Republicans. These dumb fucks are so stupid, they complain about regulations, which they don't want to begin with, not being enforced by a government they want so small it can be drowned in a bathtub. These morons are fucking out of their minds. When ever they see their policies actually happen, they freak out, "But but but that's NOT what we wanted". Oh, isn't it?

 

[waltky]

West, Texas paramedic under investigation...

Pipe bomb charges against West paramedic spur new investigation
11 May 2013 — Federal bomb possession charges against a paramedic Friday spurred a new state and local criminal investigation into the deadly fertilizer plant fire and explosion. But authorities said there weren’t yet any indications of a connection between the blast and the arrest of a man who responded to it.

Bryce Reed, 31, previously told The Dallas Morning News that he assumed radio command of the April 17 incident after the explosion killed his superiors and colleagues. He is now accused of giving a pipe bomb to an unnamed person in nearby Abbott on April 26, the day after he played a prominent role in the memorial service for 12 emergency responders killed in the blast. As the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives held Reed on the federal charge of possessing a destructive device Friday evening, agents spent hours at the Waco home of his in-laws. Meanwhile, West officials for the first time told the state agency that licenses paramedics that Reed was let go two days after the explosion. A reason wasn’t given.

The day’s developments added new twists — and layers of uncertainty — to the devastating event in this small farming community. Residents are still mourning the 15 people killed in the blast and grappling with extensive damage to hundreds of homes, scores of which are unlivable. Hours after Reed’s arrest, the Texas Rangers and McLennan County sheriff’s office launched a joint criminal investigation into the plant explosion. The agencies will determine whether there is a connection between Reed’s arrest and “any other criminal act.” From the beginning, the state fire marshal’s office has said it is still working to determine — or rule out — whether the event was a criminal act or an industrial accident. The fire marshal’s office does not expect to determine the cause of the fire that preceded the deadly explosion until later this month. The blast itself is believed to have been fueled largely by ammonium nitrate kept at the plant.

A forensic mapper works measuring the crater at the site of the fire and explosion in West, Texas on Wednesday, April 24, 2013. The explosion at West Fertilizer which killed 15 people left a crater more than 90 feet (27 meters) wide and blasted the walls and windows off dozens of buildings in the town of 2,700.

Fire marshal spokeswoman Rachel Moreno declined to comment on details of the fire investigation, including how Reed’s arrest could affect the inquiry and whether there were reports of some sort of other blast before the fire broke out. The U.S. attorney’s office, which is prosecuting Reed on the federal bomb charge, said in a prepared statement that “authorities will not speculate” whether the pipe bomb Reed allegedly had is tied to the plant explosion. After answering the door at his Rockwall home Friday, Reed’s stepfather said he couldn’t believe the charges. Gary Nelson said there is “not a chance” that Reed was involved in the deadly explosion. “He’s been tore up about it,” Nelson said, adding that the family is “100 percent behind him.”

But the sister of the firefighter that Reed eulogized at a public memorial last month said she had to ask police to guard her deceased brother’s apartment because she feared Reed had been stealing from it since the explosion. “Instead of grieving my brother’s death, we’re dealing with all of this,” said Sarah Reed, who is not related to Bryce Reed.

Calling the sheriff