The 1980's Have Called, with a warning.

[Toro]

Russia is not America's biggest threat.

There is no reason for Russia to be a big threat to the US, other than as a global rival. But if global rivalry is what matters, then China is a much bigger threat.

America doesn't have historical antipathy towards Russia. America's threat was the Soviet Union, and it was ideological, an ideology which is mostly dead.

What is going on with Russia and Ukraine has nothing to do with America.

 

[Redfish]

Once again you parrot the 'company' line. Keep in mind the Bush Administration invaded and occupied Iraq without cause; for the first time in our nations history we invaded and occupied a sovereign nation without ourselves being attacked. The vote to authorize a military response was political, had anyone known that Bush would embark our nation on such a reckless invasion, only Neo Cons would have given he and Cheney Carte Blanch.

That said, how much different is Russia's invasion of Crimea? My concern is our country has ignored the words of Washington and Jefferson:

"It is our true policy to steer clear of permanent alliance with any portion of the foreign world": it was George Washington's Farewell Address to us. The inaugural pledge of Thomas Jefferson was no less clear: "Peace, commerce, and honest friendship with all nations-entangling alliances with none."

Entangling Alliances | Foreign Affairs

"Ukraine has asked Nato to look at all possible ways to help it protect its territorial integrity, foreign minister Sergei Deshchiritsya said today.

"The minister said he had held talks with officials from the United States and the European Union and then asked Nato for help after what Ukraine’s prime minister described as Russian aggression.

"A request had been made to Nato to “look at using all possibilities for protecting the territorial integrity and sovereignty of Ukraine, the Ukrainian people and nuclear facilities on Ukrainian territory,” he said."

More at:

Ukraine seeks Nato assistance as UN meets - US News | Latest US News Headlines | The Irish Times - Sat, Mar 01, 2014

So what's our President to do?

There was of course ample cause to invade Iraq. The issue was debated for months. Most Dems went along for what was then popular. They opposed it once it became unpopular. Because Dems are the biggest fucking hypocrites to walk the planet.
The Russia/Ukraine adventure is nothing like Iraq. It is more like Afghanistan c.1979. And Obama is playing Jimmy Carter to a T.

That too is the company line, one repeated ad nausea by you and other parrots. Most Democrats did not go along with the Iraq Resolution and nearly all Republicans did:

H. or Rep.

Democrats: 126 voted NO; 82 voted YES
Republicans: 6 voted NO; 215 voted YES

Senate:

D's: 21 voted NO; 29 voted YES
R's: 1 voted NO; 48 voted YES

The takeaway. Rabbi once again lies; and, the R's vote in lockstep and the D's vote their conscience.
Link: Iraq Resolution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

care to post the obamacare vote using that same criteria?

 

[Redfish]

The smoking gun will be a mushroom cloud
They will treat us as liberators
Mission Accomplished

Democrat Quotes on Iraq Weapons of Mass Destruction

Which of those Democrats had sole authority to order an invasion?

Oh yes, it was Bush.....The Decider

Bush could not have ordered it without congressional authorization and funding.

I'm not saying it was right, but both parties are responsible. to claim otherwise is just a lie.

 

[KNB]

How many thousands of people will die within five years from Obamacare? And how does that compare to the death toll after five years in Iraq?

 

[The Rabbi]

The onus is now on you to provide the EXACT quotes where they claimed that Russia would intervene when the Ukraine dissolved into a civil war.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73tGe3JE5IU

Palin Mocked in 2008 for Warning Putin May Invade Ukraine if Obama Elected

You lose.

Russia didn't invade Georgia. It occupied the provinces of Abkhazia and South Ossetia that had broken away and were no longer under the control of Georgia! For the record both provinces had filed for independence with the UN. Georgia then attempted to invade those provinces and retake them from the Russians and failed in the attempt. Russia subsequently enabled both provinces to be become independent states which they are today.

No surprise that you are as ill informed as Palin when it comes to the facts but you used discredited Breitbart which says volumes!

Deflection is also not a river in Egypt. You lose.

 

[The Rabbi]

Once again you parrot the 'company' line. Keep in mind the Bush Administration invaded and occupied Iraq without cause; for the first time in our nations history we invaded and occupied a sovereign nation without ourselves being attacked. The vote to authorize a military response was political, had anyone known that Bush would embark our nation on such a reckless invasion, only Neo Cons would have given he and Cheney Carte Blanch.

That said, how much different is Russia's invasion of Crimea? My concern is our country has ignored the words of Washington and Jefferson:

"It is our true policy to steer clear of permanent alliance with any portion of the foreign world": it was George Washington's Farewell Address to us. The inaugural pledge of Thomas Jefferson was no less clear: "Peace, commerce, and honest friendship with all nations-entangling alliances with none."

Entangling Alliances | Foreign Affairs

"Ukraine has asked Nato to look at all possible ways to help it protect its territorial integrity, foreign minister Sergei Deshchiritsya said today.

"The minister said he had held talks with officials from the United States and the European Union and then asked Nato for help after what Ukraine’s prime minister described as Russian aggression.

"A request had been made to Nato to “look at using all possibilities for protecting the territorial integrity and sovereignty of Ukraine, the Ukrainian people and nuclear facilities on Ukrainian territory,” he said."

More at:

Ukraine seeks Nato assistance as UN meets - US News | Latest US News Headlines | The Irish Times - Sat, Mar 01, 2014

So what's our President to do?

There was of course ample cause to invade Iraq. The issue was debated for months. Most Dems went along for what was then popular. They opposed it once it became unpopular. Because Dems are the biggest fucking hypocrites to walk the planet.
The Russia/Ukraine adventure is nothing like Iraq. It is more like Afghanistan c.1979. And Obama is playing Jimmy Carter to a T.

That too is the company line, one repeated ad nausea by you and other parrots. Most Democrats did not go along with the Iraq Resolution and nearly all Republicans did:

H. or Rep.

Democrats: 126 voted NO; 82 voted YES
Republicans: 6 voted NO; 215 voted YES

Senate:

D's: 21 voted NO; 29 voted YES
R's: 1 voted NO; 48 voted YES

The takeaway. Rabbi once again lies; and, the R's vote in lockstep and the D's vote their conscience.

Link: Iraq Resolution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Democrats voted for it. The measure could not have passed without them. They continued to fund the war after they took over Congress.
Facts are simply not your friends here, cocksucker.

 

[velvtacheeze]

you are wrong, see below

Democrat Quotes on Iraq Weapons of Mass Destruction

Yes, we've all seen the unconvincing arguments that Democrats are equally to blame for the Iraq War fiasco. The arguments are not working. They will never work. Nice try though.

They are. Half of them voted for the war in the Senate in 2002, 81 of them voted for the war in the house. Had they all voted no, the Republicans would have fallen 5 votes short of passage. Given that 217 is the magic number.

Again, like I said before, we've all seen the unconvincing arguments. The American people don't see it that way, and sure didn't in the 2006 election, when the GOP got the beatdown it deserved.

 

[KNB]

Democrat Quotes on Iraq Weapons of Mass Destruction

Which of those Democrats had sole authority to order an invasion?

Oh yes, it was Bush.....The Decider

Bush could not have ordered it without congressional authorization and funding.

I'm not saying it was right, but both parties are responsible. to claim otherwise is just a lie.

No, to say that Iraq was an imminent threat to the US in the wake of 9/11 was a lie. To tell Americans that there was ever any chance of a military victory in Afghanistan after Operation Cyclone was a lie. Those are Republican Bush administration LIES. You don't get to transfer blame. The same exact people in the Bush administration who were invading Iraq and Afghanistan were the same exact people in the Reagan administration who sold weapons and gave guerrilla training to Afghan and Middle Eastern extremists. The CIA designed Afghanistan to be just like Vietnam- unable to be won with a more powerful military.

The Bush administration lied, and every Republican supported it and you labeled everyone who questioned the lies as a traitor, a communist, a terrorist, a Muslim-lover, and all kinds of ignorant, stupid names when it was the Republicans in Reagan's White House who set up the jihad in the first place.

 

[Wry Catcher]

There was of course ample cause to invade Iraq. The issue was debated for months. Most Dems went along for what was then popular. They opposed it once it became unpopular. Because Dems are the biggest fucking hypocrites to walk the planet.
The Russia/Ukraine adventure is nothing like Iraq. It is more like Afghanistan c.1979. And Obama is playing Jimmy Carter to a T.

That too is the company line, one repeated ad nausea by you and other parrots. Most Democrats did not go along with the Iraq Resolution and nearly all Republicans did:

H. or Rep.

Democrats: 126 voted NO; 82 voted YES
Republicans: 6 voted NO; 215 voted YES

Senate:

D's: 21 voted NO; 29 voted YES
R's: 1 voted NO; 48 voted YES

The takeaway. Rabbi once again lies; and, the R's vote in lockstep and the D's vote their conscience.
Link: Iraq Resolution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

care to post the obamacare vote using that same criteria?

Apples and Oranges, the vote for 'war' was a vote to take lives; the vote for Obamacare was to preserve lives and health.

 

[Redfish]

That too is the company line, one repeated ad nausea by you and other parrots. Most Democrats did not go along with the Iraq Resolution and nearly all Republicans did:

H. or Rep.

Democrats: 126 voted NO; 82 voted YES
Republicans: 6 voted NO; 215 voted YES

Senate:

D's: 21 voted NO; 29 voted YES
R's: 1 voted NO; 48 voted YES

The takeaway. Rabbi once again lies; and, the R's vote in lockstep and the D's vote their conscience.
Link: Iraq Resolution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

care to post the obamacare vote using that same criteria?

Apples and Oranges, the vote for 'war' was a vote to take lives; the vote for Obamacare was to preserve lives and health.

thats funny, obamacare has taken insurance coverage from over 6 million americans, it is driving doctors and hospitals out of medicine, it is causing workers to lose paid hours, it is preventing businesses from growing, it will cost more american lives than Iraq and Afghanistan combined.

and, as to the vote. all the dems voted in lockstep, without even reading the bill.

 

[NYcarbineer]

There was of course ample cause to invade Iraq. The issue was debated for months. Most Dems went along for what was then popular. They opposed it once it became unpopular. Because Dems are the biggest fucking hypocrites to walk the planet.
The Russia/Ukraine adventure is nothing like Iraq. It is more like Afghanistan c.1979. And Obama is playing Jimmy Carter to a T.

That too is the company line, one repeated ad nausea by you and other parrots. Most Democrats did not go along with the Iraq Resolution and nearly all Republicans did:

H. or Rep.

Democrats: 126 voted NO; 82 voted YES
Republicans: 6 voted NO; 215 voted YES

Senate:

D's: 21 voted NO; 29 voted YES
R's: 1 voted NO; 48 voted YES

The takeaway. Rabbi once again lies; and, the R's vote in lockstep and the D's vote their conscience.

Link: Iraq Resolution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Democrats voted for it. The measure could not have passed without them. They continued to fund the war after they took over Congress.
Facts are simply not your friends here, cocksucker.

What part of 'most Democrats voted against the Iraq war' don't you understand?

Besides, the Republicans held the House and the Senate after the 2002 election.

 

[Redfish]

Which of those Democrats had sole authority to order an invasion?

Oh yes, it was Bush.....The Decider

Bush could not have ordered it without congressional authorization and funding.

I'm not saying it was right, but both parties are responsible. to claim otherwise is just a lie.

No, to say that Iraq was an imminent threat to the US in the wake of 9/11 was a lie. To tell Americans that there was ever any chance of a military victory in Afghanistan after Operation Cyclone was a lie. Those are Republican Bush administration LIES. You don't get to transfer blame. The same exact people in the Bush administration who were invading Iraq and Afghanistan were the same exact people in the Reagan administration who sold weapons and gave guerrilla training to Afghan and Middle Eastern extremists. The CIA designed Afghanistan to be just like Vietnam- unable to be won with a more powerful military.

The Bush administration lied, and every Republican supported it and you labeled everyone who questioned the lies as a traitor, a communist, a terrorist, a Muslim-lover, and all kinds of ignorant, stupid names when it was the Republicans in Reagan's White House who set up the jihad in the first place.

yes, republicans supported it, so did democrats. how many time must you be shown the facts?

Democrat Quotes on Iraq Weapons of Mass Destruction

 

[Votto]

The 1980's called?

How ironic, just the other day I was calling the 1980's asking for our President back.

I hate playing phone tag.

 

[Redfish]

That too is the company line, one repeated ad nausea by you and other parrots. Most Democrats did not go along with the Iraq Resolution and nearly all Republicans did:

H. or Rep.

Democrats: 126 voted NO; 82 voted YES
Republicans: 6 voted NO; 215 voted YES

Senate:

D's: 21 voted NO; 29 voted YES
R's: 1 voted NO; 48 voted YES

The takeaway. Rabbi once again lies; and, the R's vote in lockstep and the D's vote their conscience.

Link: Iraq Resolution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Democrats voted for it. The measure could not have passed without them. They continued to fund the war after they took over Congress.
Facts are simply not your friends here, cocksucker.

What part of 'most Democrats voted against the Iraq war' don't you understand?

Besides, the Republicans held the House and the Senate after the 2002 election.

Democrat Quotes on Iraq Weapons of Mass Destruction

read and learn

 

[velvtacheeze]

It's funny how you guys always leave out this quote:

What I am opposed to is a dumb war. What I am opposed to is a rash war. What I am opposed to is the cynical attempt by Richard Perle and Paul Wolfowitz and other armchair, weekend warriors in this administration to shove their own ideological agendas down our throats, irrespective of the costs in lives lost and in hardships borne.

What I am opposed to is the attempt by political hacks like Karl Rove to distract us from a rise in the uninsured, a rise in the poverty rate, a drop in the median income — to distract us from corporate scandals and a stock market that has just gone through the worst month since the Great Depression. That's what I'm opposed to. A dumb war. A rash war. A war based not on reason but on passion, not on principle but on politics.

Barack Obama 44th President of the US

I guess that explains why he let 4 americans die in Benghazi.

The fact remains that most dems supported the stupid Iraq 'war'. They authorized and funded it, just like they did with Viet Nam where we lost 58,000 americans and billions of dollars for NOTHING.

Is that really the best you guys got? Bush sends 7000 Americans to their death in Iraq and all you can reply is......What about Benghazi?

It's all they got.

They think it's convincing. It's not. It's the foreign policy version of the social conservative argument : "But it's in the Bible". It's not convincing to enough people for the GOP to take back power over it.

 

[The Rabbi]

That too is the company line, one repeated ad nausea by you and other parrots. Most Democrats did not go along with the Iraq Resolution and nearly all Republicans did:

H. or Rep.

Democrats: 126 voted NO; 82 voted YES
Republicans: 6 voted NO; 215 voted YES

Senate:

D's: 21 voted NO; 29 voted YES
R's: 1 voted NO; 48 voted YES

The takeaway. Rabbi once again lies; and, the R's vote in lockstep and the D's vote their conscience.
Link: Iraq Resolution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

care to post the obamacare vote using that same criteria?

Apples and Oranges, the vote for 'war' was a vote to take lives; the vote for Obamacare was to preserve lives and health.

It's different because, well, somehow it just is. We get it.
Dems vote in lockstep. That much is clear. They're afraid to dissent.

But you have provided support that Democrats supported the war. That includes Hillary Clinton, btw.

 

[KNB]

Bush could not have ordered it without congressional authorization and funding.

I'm not saying it was right, but both parties are responsible. to claim otherwise is just a lie.

No, to say that Iraq was an imminent threat to the US in the wake of 9/11 was a lie. To tell Americans that there was ever any chance of a military victory in Afghanistan after Operation Cyclone was a lie. Those are Republican Bush administration LIES. You don't get to transfer blame. The same exact people in the Bush administration who were invading Iraq and Afghanistan were the same exact people in the Reagan administration who sold weapons and gave guerrilla training to Afghan and Middle Eastern extremists. The CIA designed Afghanistan to be just like Vietnam- unable to be won with a more powerful military.

The Bush administration lied, and every Republican supported it and you labeled everyone who questioned the lies as a traitor, a communist, a terrorist, a Muslim-lover, and all kinds of ignorant, stupid names when it was the Republicans in Reagan's White House who set up the jihad in the first place.

yes, republicans supported it, so did democrats. how many time must you be shown the facts?

Democrat Quotes on Iraq Weapons of Mass Destruction

Which administration enabled Iraq to obtain and use those chemical weapons?
Did the U.S. Help Saddam Acquire Biological Weapons
Exclusive: CIA Files Prove America Helped Saddam as He Gassed Iran
Report: Reagan Gave Military Aid to Iraq | Fox News
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/us-and-iraq-go-way-back/
http://news.yahoo.com/u-helped-saddam-hussein-chemical-weapons-against-iran-161600457.html

 

[velvtacheeze]

you are wrong, see below

Democrat Quotes on Iraq Weapons of Mass Destruction

It's funny how you guys always leave out this quote:

What I am opposed to is a dumb war. What I am opposed to is a rash war. What I am opposed to is the cynical attempt by Richard Perle and Paul Wolfowitz and other armchair, weekend warriors in this administration to shove their own ideological agendas down our throats, irrespective of the costs in lives lost and in hardships borne.

What I am opposed to is the attempt by political hacks like Karl Rove to distract us from a rise in the uninsured, a rise in the poverty rate, a drop in the median income — to distract us from corporate scandals and a stock market that has just gone through the worst month since the Great Depression. That's what I'm opposed to. A dumb war. A rash war. A war based not on reason but on passion, not on principle but on politics.

Barack Obama 44th President of the US

I guess that explains why he let 4 americans die in Benghazi.

The fact remains that most dems supported the stupid Iraq 'war'. They authorized and funded it, just like they did with Viet Nam where we lost 58,000 americans and billions of dollars for NOTHING.

Nice try, but again, another failure.

The Dems who made the mistake of authorizing the war did the right thing eventually and changed their minds about the Iraq War. So, not only did they not support it as enthusiastically as you falsely believe, but by 2004, they were mostly opposed to it, once it was clear what a poor job of managing the war the GOP was doing. The GOP, on the other hand, was cheerleading the blood soaked disaster right up until the end, and today most of them refuse to fess up about the war being a mistake.

 

[NYcarbineer]

In 2012 during a presidential debate with Mitt Romney, Obama seemed to score points when stumping Mitt Romney on what was the bigger threat in the world (seen in the quote below). Mitt Romney contended Russia is the bigger threat to the world than Al-Qaeda. From then on, he was accused of "Cold War thinking." Then, it appeared certain he was wrong. But today, with Vladmir Putin ignoring flaccid warnings from Obama and invading Ukraine and blockading Crimea; it appears Romney words were not only right but eerily prophetic. Both Romney and Palin predicted this, and were brushed off.

"Governor Romney, I'm glad that you recognize that al-Qaeda's a threat because a few months ago when you were asked what's the biggest geo-political threat facing America, you said Russia. Not Al-Qaeda; you said, Russia.

And the 1980's are now calling to ask for their foreign policy back because the Cold War has been over for twenty years."

The 1980's are now calling to deliver a warning. Don't let Russia reassert its previous dominance over what was the former Soviet Union.

In 2012 there is no way that either Romney or Palin could have predicted that the Ukraine would degenerate into a civil war in 2014 so that allegation is utter nonsense!

Secondly let's put this into context. If Mexico were to dissolve into a civil war US troops would be sent in to "protect American interests". Russia is doing the name thing because the neighboring state of Ukraine is undergoing a civil war. Obviously Russia would prefer that the outcome favor Russian interests and there is no incentive for the EU nations to intervene.

Finally it is utterly ludicrous to expect Obama to intervene militarily in this conflict. Who are US troops supposed to attack over there? What is the objective? "Nation building"? What is the exit plan?

Your entire OP is predicated on a notion that Russia is some kind of "threat" to the USA. You have failed to make that case just as you failed to establish that Romney and Palin had the powers of precognition.

In essence all you wanted was a stick to beat Obama with and this one is a wet noodle!

Sure, but the fact remains that both Romney and Palin predicted exactly what is happening today and Obama said it would never happen. They were right, he was wrong.

lol, Sarah Palin predicted that Obamacare was going to result in her son Trig being denied medical treatment.

btw, Romney said this in the Oct 22, 1980 debate:

Iran is the greatest national security threat we face.

 

[The Rabbi]

In 2012 there is no way that either Romney or Palin could have predicted that the Ukraine would degenerate into a civil war in 2014 so that allegation is utter nonsense!

Secondly let's put this into context. If Mexico were to dissolve into a civil war US troops would be sent in to "protect American interests". Russia is doing the name thing because the neighboring state of Ukraine is undergoing a civil war. Obviously Russia would prefer that the outcome favor Russian interests and there is no incentive for the EU nations to intervene.

Finally it is utterly ludicrous to expect Obama to intervene militarily in this conflict. Who are US troops supposed to attack over there? What is the objective? "Nation building"? What is the exit plan?

Your entire OP is predicated on a notion that Russia is some kind of "threat" to the USA. You have failed to make that case just as you failed to establish that Romney and Palin had the powers of precognition.

In essence all you wanted was a stick to beat Obama with and this one is a wet noodle!

Sure, but the fact remains that both Romney and Palin predicted exactly what is happening today and Obama said it would never happen. They were right, he was wrong.

lol, Sarah Palin predicted that Obamacare was going to result in her son Trig being denied medical treatment.

btw, Romney said this in the Oct 22, 1980 debate:

Iran is the greatest national security threat we face.

Had no idea Romney was a candidate in 1980. Wow, learn something new every day.
How many predictions has Obama made that weren't true? I know, all of them.