The 1980's Have Called, with a warning.

[TemplarKormac]

In 2012 during a presidential debate with Mitt Romney, Obama seemed to score points when stumping Mitt Romney on what was the bigger threat in the world (seen in the quote below). Mitt Romney contended Russia is the bigger threat to the world than Al-Qaeda. From then on, he was accused of "Cold War thinking." Then, it appeared certain he was wrong. But today, with Vladmir Putin ignoring flaccid warnings from Obama and invading Ukraine and blockading Crimea; it appears Romney words were not only right but eerily prophetic. Both Romney and Palin predicted this, and were brushed off.

"Governor Romney, I'm glad that you recognize that al-Qaeda's a threat because a few months ago when you were asked what's the biggest geo-political threat facing America, you said Russia. Not Al-Qaeda; you said, Russia.

And the 1980's are now calling to ask for their foreign policy back because the Cold War has been over for twenty years."

The 1980's are now calling to deliver a warning. Don't let Russia reassert its previous dominance over what was the former Soviet Union.

In 2012 there is no way that either Romney or Palin could have predicted that the Ukraine would degenerate into a civil war in 2014 so that allegation is utter nonsense!

Secondly let's put this into context. If Mexico were to dissolve into a civil war US troops would be sent in to "protect American interests". Russia is doing the name thing because the neighboring state of Ukraine is undergoing a civil war. Obviously Russia would prefer that the outcome favor Russian interests and there is no incentive for the EU nations to intervene.

Finally it is utterly ludicrous to expect Obama to intervene militarily in this conflict. Who are US troops supposed to attack over there? What is the objective? "Nation building"? What is the exit plan?

Your entire OP is predicated on a notion that Russia is some kind of "threat" to the USA. You have failed to make that case just as you failed to establish that Romney and Palin had the powers of precognition.

In essence all you wanted was a stick to beat Obama with and this one is a wet noodle!

I have the quotes, Derideo. Might it be the one with the wet noodle here is you?

 

[Katzndogz]

obama's announcement that we were devastating our military, that we would no longer be dominant in space, in the air or on the sea, that the new military would be incapable of fighting a war on two fronts had nothing to do with the current power grab by Russia. Nothing at all.

 

[TemplarKormac]

One other thing, why are we condemning Russia for invading? If Russia were truly interested in keeping the peace, the wouldn't drop 2000 troops in the middle of Kiev and saying "you folks behave now."

No, that would only serve to intensify the tensions. And alas, it has.

 

[velvtacheeze]

Both parties voted to authorize and fund the stupid waste of lives and money known as the Iraq war. Both parties are responsible

Oh no, conservatives are still trying to spread the blame for the Iraq War. How embarrasing.

Most Dems voted against it in the House. Just over half of Dem Senators made the mistake of voting in favor of war. And on the GOP side, only six whopping GOPers were smart enough to see what a mistake it was going to be.

And in the years between the start of the Iraq War Mistake and the 2004 election, the rhetoric from the GOP and conservatives made it clear that to them all liberals and Democrats were de facto enemies of America. In other words, the GOP decided to take full ownership of the Iraq War.

It was the GOP's idea, they supported it, they owned it. And the negative electoral consequences that the GOP suffered since the occupation of Iraq was so badly managed was entirely justified.

 

[Redfish]

Both parties voted to authorize and fund the stupid waste of lives and money known as the Iraq war. Both parties are responsible

Oh no, conservatives are still trying to spread the blame for the Iraq War. How embarrasing.

Most Dems voted against it in the House. Just over half of Dem Senators made the mistake of voting in favor of war. And on the GOP side, only six whopping GOPers were smart enough to see what a mistake it was going to be.

And in the years between the start of the Iraq War Mistake and the 2004 election, the rhetoric from the GOP and conservatives made it clear that to them all liberals and Democrats were de facto enemies of America. In other words, the GOP decided to take full ownership of the Iraq War.

It was the GOP's idea, they supported it, they owned it. And the negative electoral consequences that the GOP suffered since the occupation of Iraq was so badly managed was entirely justified.

you are wrong, see below

Democrat Quotes on Iraq Weapons of Mass Destruction

 

[velvtacheeze]

Both parties voted to authorize and fund the stupid waste of lives and money known as the Iraq war. Both parties are responsible

Oh no, conservatives are still trying to spread the blame for the Iraq War. How embarrasing.

Most Dems voted against it in the House. Just over half of Dem Senators made the mistake of voting in favor of war. And on the GOP side, only six whopping GOPers were smart enough to see what a mistake it was going to be.

And in the years between the start of the Iraq War Mistake and the 2004 election, the rhetoric from the GOP and conservatives made it clear that to them all liberals and Democrats were de facto enemies of America. In other words, the GOP decided to take full ownership of the Iraq War.

It was the GOP's idea, they supported it, they owned it. And the negative electoral consequences that the GOP suffered since the occupation of Iraq was so badly managed was entirely justified.

you are wrong, see below

Democrat Quotes on Iraq Weapons of Mass Destruction

Yes, we've all seen the unconvincing arguments that Democrats are equally to blame for the Iraq War fiasco. The arguments are not working. They will never work. Nice try though.

 

[velvtacheeze]

In 2012 during a presidential debate with Mitt Romney, Obama seemed to score points when stumping Mitt Romney on what was the bigger threat in the world (seen in the quote below). Mitt Romney contended Russia is the bigger threat to the world than Al-Qaeda. From then on, he was accused of "Cold War thinking." Then, it appeared certain he was wrong. But today, with Vladmir Putin ignoring flaccid warnings from Obama and invading Ukraine and blockading Crimea; it appears Romney words were not only right but eerily prophetic. Both Romney and Palin predicted this, and were brushed off.

"Governor Romney, I'm glad that you recognize that al-Qaeda's a threat because a few months ago when you were asked what's the biggest geo-political threat facing America, you said Russia. Not Al-Qaeda; you said, Russia.

And the 1980's are now calling to ask for their foreign policy back because the Cold War has been over for twenty years."

The 1980's are now calling to deliver a warning. Don't let Russia reassert its previous dominance over what was the former Soviet Union.

In 2012 there is no way that either Romney or Palin could have predicted that the Ukraine would degenerate into a civil war in 2014 so that allegation is utter nonsense!

Secondly let's put this into context. If Mexico were to dissolve into a civil war US troops would be sent in to "protect American interests". Russia is doing the name thing because the neighboring state of Ukraine is undergoing a civil war. Obviously Russia would prefer that the outcome favor Russian interests and there is no incentive for the EU nations to intervene.

Finally it is utterly ludicrous to expect Obama to intervene militarily in this conflict. Who are US troops supposed to attack over there? What is the objective? "Nation building"? What is the exit plan?

Your entire OP is predicated on a notion that Russia is some kind of "threat" to the USA. You have failed to make that case just as you failed to establish that Romney and Palin had the powers of precognition.

In essence all you wanted was a stick to beat Obama with and this one is a wet noodle!

Sure, but the fact remains that both Romney and Palin predicted exactly what is happening today and Obama said it would never happen. They were right, he was wrong.

And so therefore we should have elected them? Pfffffft.

We'd be so deeply mired in wars throughout the middle east if either of those two clowns had somehow convinced enough boobs to vote for them. Syria, Iraq, Iran and Afghanistan would all be blood soaked disasters for our troops right now.

 

[jillian]

Behavior?


Look, don't call for war if you won't or can't go. You don't know what you are asking people to do.

And never fucking threaten me boy.

I'm not threatening anyone. But you need to keep my job situation out of this thread. It's irrelevant.

I can call for war if I want, it's not that I don't want to go, I CAN'T go. The Army wouldn't even look at me. I've applied to the National Guard and inquired about enlisting in the Army. They both won't take me for lack of emotional stability. So, in essence I still do have the right to my opinions about war.

I live in a military family. Many generations before me have fought in a war, from WWI to the Gulf War. I know exactly what kind of sacrifice it entails. Don't think I'm ignorant of what the hells of war entail.

Oh bullshit. If you had ANY IDEA, you'd stop posturing. "The hell that war entails" is a talking point you use when people call you out on your shit.

And oh yeah. Somebody that won't be taken by any branch of the military because he really should be a guest at the Waldorf Hysteria is EXACTLY who we should be listening to when it comes to grave military decisions.

chicken hawks love sending other people to die so long as their own butts are safe at home.

 

[Katzndogz]

Democrats think that obama is doing the right thing by drawing red lines, threatening costs to be paid then going off to play golf or have happy hour. It builds credibility. That's how democrats think.

 

[BDBoop]

I'm not threatening anyone. But you need to keep my job situation out of this thread. It's irrelevant.

I can call for war if I want, it's not that I don't want to go, I CAN'T go. The Army wouldn't even look at me. I've applied to the National Guard and inquired about enlisting in the Army. They both won't take me for lack of emotional stability. So, in essence I still do have the right to my opinions about war.

I live in a military family. Many generations before me have fought in a war, from WWI to the Gulf War. I know exactly what kind of sacrifice it entails. Don't think I'm ignorant of what the hells of war entail.

Oh bullshit. If you had ANY IDEA, you'd stop posturing. "The hell that war entails" is a talking point you use when people call you out on your shit.

And oh yeah. Somebody that won't be taken by any branch of the military because he really should be a guest at the Waldorf Hysteria is EXACTLY who we should be listening to when it comes to grave military decisions.

chicken hawks love sending other people to die so long as their own butts are safe at home.

And the butts of their loved ones.

I can't imagine WANTING to send people off to war unless it is for a truly amazing cause (see: WW II).

 

[velvtacheeze]

obama's announcement that we were devastating our military, that we would no longer be dominant in space, in the air or on the sea, that the new military would be incapable of fighting a war on two fronts had nothing to do with the current power grab by Russia. Nothing at all.

We're not devastating the military. We're rightsizing it. We are still dominate in space, and why can't other countries have great space programs too? We're still able to fight two wars at once.

Ukraine was 'gifted' the Crimea by Kruschev. It was historically a part of Russia long before that. I don't really have a problem with Russia undoing that bizarre Soviet-era crime of 'gifting' Crimea to Ukraine. It never should have happened.

 

[Wry Catcher]

There were not enough idiots who wanted the GOP back in the White House and in control of foreign policy. Get over it.

The GOP's epic fail in Iraq is the number one reason why. Get over it.

Russia is not a threat to the US. Russia is not attacking the US. Russia is not demanding Americans be killed wherever they are, like Al Qaeda does.

We're doing exactly what we should do in response to Putin's moves in Crimea: Nothing. I'ts not our business.

Mitt lost because he wanted to reimpose the failed policies of the Bushtarded Regime on America. Get over it.

I bolded the part of your post that is correct.

Both parties voted to authorize and fund the stupid waste of lives and money known as the Iraq war. Both parties are responsible

Romney lost because; he did not attack obama on his failures, a biased media, black pride, and white guilt. He did not lose on policy.

Romney's policies were right, that is becoming more evident every day.

Once again you parrot the 'company' line. Keep in mind the Bush Administration invaded and occupied Iraq without cause; for the first time in our nations history we invaded and occupied a sovereign nation without ourselves being attacked. The vote to authorize a military response was political, had anyone known that Bush would embark our nation on such a reckless invasion, only Neo Cons would have given he and Cheney Carte Blanch.

That said, how much different is Russia's invasion of Crimea? My concern is our country has ignored the words of Washington and Jefferson:

"It is our true policy to steer clear of permanent alliance with any portion of the foreign world": it was George Washington's Farewell Address to us. The inaugural pledge of Thomas Jefferson was no less clear: "Peace, commerce, and honest friendship with all nations-entangling alliances with none."

Entangling Alliances | Foreign Affairs

"Ukraine has asked Nato to look at all possible ways to help it protect its territorial integrity, foreign minister Sergei Deshchiritsya said today.

"The minister said he had held talks with officials from the United States and the European Union and then asked Nato for help after what Ukraine’s prime minister described as Russian aggression.

"A request had been made to Nato to “look at using all possibilities for protecting the territorial integrity and sovereignty of Ukraine, the Ukrainian people and nuclear facilities on Ukrainian territory,” he said."

More at:

Ukraine seeks Nato assistance as UN meets - US News | Latest US News Headlines | The Irish Times - Sat, Mar 01, 2014

So what's our President to do?

 

[velvtacheeze]

Democrats think that obama is doing the right thing by drawing red lines, threatening costs to be paid then going off to play golf or have happy hour. It builds credibility. That's how democrats think.

Conservatives think that the US was feared until 2009. Actually, the US was exposed as weak and ineffectual during the failed and flopped US occupation of Iraq. Way to go, conservatives. Smooth move.

 

[The Rabbi]

There were not enough idiots who wanted the GOP back in the White House and in control of foreign policy. Get over it.

The GOP's epic fail in Iraq is the number one reason why. Get over it.

Russia is not a threat to the US. Russia is not attacking the US. Russia is not demanding Americans be killed wherever they are, like Al Qaeda does.

We're doing exactly what we should do in response to Putin's moves in Crimea: Nothing. I'ts not our business.

Mitt lost because he wanted to reimpose the failed policies of the Bushtarded Regime on America. Get over it.

I bolded the part of your post that is correct.

Both parties voted to authorize and fund the stupid waste of lives and money known as the Iraq war. Both parties are responsible

Romney lost because; he did not attack obama on his failures, a biased media, black pride, and white guilt. He did not lose on policy.

Romney's policies were right, that is becoming more evident every day.

Once again you parrot the 'company' line. Keep in mind the Bush Administration invaded and occupied Iraq without cause; for the first time in our nations history we invaded and occupied a sovereign nation without ourselves being attacked. The vote to authorize a military response was political, had anyone known that Bush would embark our nation on such a reckless invasion, only Neo Cons would have given he and Cheney Carte Blanch.

That said, how much different is Russia's invasion of Crimea? My concern is our country has ignored the words of Washington and Jefferson:

"It is our true policy to steer clear of permanent alliance with any portion of the foreign world": it was George Washington's Farewell Address to us. The inaugural pledge of Thomas Jefferson was no less clear: "Peace, commerce, and honest friendship with all nations-entangling alliances with none."

Entangling Alliances | Foreign Affairs

"Ukraine has asked Nato to look at all possible ways to help it protect its territorial integrity, foreign minister Sergei Deshchiritsya said today.

"The minister said he had held talks with officials from the United States and the European Union and then asked Nato for help after what Ukraine’s prime minister described as Russian aggression.

"A request had been made to Nato to “look at using all possibilities for protecting the territorial integrity and sovereignty of Ukraine, the Ukrainian people and nuclear facilities on Ukrainian territory,” he said."

More at:

Ukraine seeks Nato assistance as UN meets - US News | Latest US News Headlines | The Irish Times - Sat, Mar 01, 2014

So what's our President to do?

There was of course ample cause to invade Iraq. The issue was debated for months. Most Dems went along for what was then popular. They opposed it once it became unpopular. Because Dems are the biggest fucking hypocrites to walk the planet.
The Russia/Ukraine adventure is nothing like Iraq. It is more like Afghanistan c.1979. And Obama is playing Jimmy Carter to a T.

 

[rightwinger]

Both parties voted to authorize and fund the stupid waste of lives and money known as the Iraq war. Both parties are responsible

Oh no, conservatives are still trying to spread the blame for the Iraq War. How embarrasing.

Most Dems voted against it in the House. Just over half of Dem Senators made the mistake of voting in favor of war. And on the GOP side, only six whopping GOPers were smart enough to see what a mistake it was going to be.

And in the years between the start of the Iraq War Mistake and the 2004 election, the rhetoric from the GOP and conservatives made it clear that to them all liberals and Democrats were de facto enemies of America. In other words, the GOP decided to take full ownership of the Iraq War.

It was the GOP's idea, they supported it, they owned it. And the negative electoral consequences that the GOP suffered since the occupation of Iraq was so badly managed was entirely justified.

you are wrong, see below

Democrat Quotes on Iraq Weapons of Mass Destruction

It's funny how you guys always leave out this quote:

What I am opposed to is a dumb war. What I am opposed to is a rash war. What I am opposed to is the cynical attempt by Richard Perle and Paul Wolfowitz and other armchair, weekend warriors in this administration to shove their own ideological agendas down our throats, irrespective of the costs in lives lost and in hardships borne.

What I am opposed to is the attempt by political hacks like Karl Rove to distract us from a rise in the uninsured, a rise in the poverty rate, a drop in the median income — to distract us from corporate scandals and a stock market that has just gone through the worst month since the Great Depression. That's what I'm opposed to. A dumb war. A rash war. A war based not on reason but on passion, not on principle but on politics.

Barack Obama 44th President of the US

 

[Derideo_Te]

In 2012 during a presidential debate with Mitt Romney, Obama seemed to score points when stumping Mitt Romney on what was the bigger threat in the world (seen in the quote below). Mitt Romney contended Russia is the bigger threat to the world than Al-Qaeda. From then on, he was accused of "Cold War thinking." Then, it appeared certain he was wrong. But today, with Vladmir Putin ignoring flaccid warnings from Obama and invading Ukraine and blockading Crimea; it appears Romney words were not only right but eerily prophetic. Both Romney and Palin predicted this, and were brushed off.

"Governor Romney, I'm glad that you recognize that al-Qaeda's a threat because a few months ago when you were asked what's the biggest geo-political threat facing America, you said Russia. Not Al-Qaeda; you said, Russia.

And the 1980's are now calling to ask for their foreign policy back because the Cold War has been over for twenty years."

The 1980's are now calling to deliver a warning. Don't let Russia reassert its previous dominance over what was the former Soviet Union.

In 2012 there is no way that either Romney or Palin could have predicted that the Ukraine would degenerate into a civil war in 2014 so that allegation is utter nonsense!

Secondly let's put this into context. If Mexico were to dissolve into a civil war US troops would be sent in to "protect American interests". Russia is doing the name thing because the neighboring state of Ukraine is undergoing a civil war. Obviously Russia would prefer that the outcome favor Russian interests and there is no incentive for the EU nations to intervene.

Finally it is utterly ludicrous to expect Obama to intervene militarily in this conflict. Who are US troops supposed to attack over there? What is the objective? "Nation building"? What is the exit plan?

Your entire OP is predicated on a notion that Russia is some kind of "threat" to the USA. You have failed to make that case just as you failed to establish that Romney and Palin had the powers of precognition.

In essence all you wanted was a stick to beat Obama with and this one is a wet noodle!

Sure, but the fact remains that both Romney and Palin predicted exactly what is happening today and Obama said it would never happen. They were right, he was wrong.

The onus is now on you to provide the EXACT quotes where they claimed that Russia would intervene when the Ukraine dissolved into a civil war.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73tGe3JE5IU"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73tGe3JE5IU[/ame]

 

[The Rabbi]

Oh no, conservatives are still trying to spread the blame for the Iraq War. How embarrasing.

Most Dems voted against it in the House. Just over half of Dem Senators made the mistake of voting in favor of war. And on the GOP side, only six whopping GOPers were smart enough to see what a mistake it was going to be.

And in the years between the start of the Iraq War Mistake and the 2004 election, the rhetoric from the GOP and conservatives made it clear that to them all liberals and Democrats were de facto enemies of America. In other words, the GOP decided to take full ownership of the Iraq War.

It was the GOP's idea, they supported it, they owned it. And the negative electoral consequences that the GOP suffered since the occupation of Iraq was so badly managed was entirely justified.

you are wrong, see below

Democrat Quotes on Iraq Weapons of Mass Destruction

It's funny how you guys always leave out this quote:

What I am opposed to is a dumb war. What I am opposed to is a rash war. What I am opposed to is the cynical attempt by Richard Perle and Paul Wolfowitz and other armchair, weekend warriors in this administration to shove their own ideological agendas down our throats, irrespective of the costs in lives lost and in hardships borne.

What I am opposed to is the attempt by political hacks like Karl Rove to distract us from a rise in the uninsured, a rise in the poverty rate, a drop in the median income — to distract us from corporate scandals and a stock market that has just gone through the worst month since the Great Depression. That's what I'm opposed to. A dumb war. A rash war. A war based not on reason but on passion, not on principle but on politics.

Barack Obama 44th President of the US

That doesnt really invalidate the others, does it?
And if Obama believed that, why did he order a surge in Afghanistan?

 

[The Rabbi]

In 2012 there is no way that either Romney or Palin could have predicted that the Ukraine would degenerate into a civil war in 2014 so that allegation is utter nonsense!

Secondly let's put this into context. If Mexico were to dissolve into a civil war US troops would be sent in to "protect American interests". Russia is doing the name thing because the neighboring state of Ukraine is undergoing a civil war. Obviously Russia would prefer that the outcome favor Russian interests and there is no incentive for the EU nations to intervene.

Finally it is utterly ludicrous to expect Obama to intervene militarily in this conflict. Who are US troops supposed to attack over there? What is the objective? "Nation building"? What is the exit plan?

Your entire OP is predicated on a notion that Russia is some kind of "threat" to the USA. You have failed to make that case just as you failed to establish that Romney and Palin had the powers of precognition.

In essence all you wanted was a stick to beat Obama with and this one is a wet noodle!

Sure, but the fact remains that both Romney and Palin predicted exactly what is happening today and Obama said it would never happen. They were right, he was wrong.

The onus is now on you to provide the EXACT quotes where they claimed that Russia would intervene when the Ukraine dissolved into a civil war.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73tGe3JE5IU"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73tGe3JE5IU[/ame]

Palin Mocked in 2008 for Warning Putin May Invade Ukraine if Obama Elected

You lose.

 

[Derideo_Te]

In 2012 during a presidential debate with Mitt Romney, Obama seemed to score points when stumping Mitt Romney on what was the bigger threat in the world (seen in the quote below). Mitt Romney contended Russia is the bigger threat to the world than Al-Qaeda. From then on, he was accused of "Cold War thinking." Then, it appeared certain he was wrong. But today, with Vladmir Putin ignoring flaccid warnings from Obama and invading Ukraine and blockading Crimea; it appears Romney words were not only right but eerily prophetic. Both Romney and Palin predicted this, and were brushed off.

"Governor Romney, I'm glad that you recognize that al-Qaeda's a threat because a few months ago when you were asked what's the biggest geo-political threat facing America, you said Russia. Not Al-Qaeda; you said, Russia.

And the 1980's are now calling to ask for their foreign policy back because the Cold War has been over for twenty years."

The 1980's are now calling to deliver a warning. Don't let Russia reassert its previous dominance over what was the former Soviet Union.

In 2012 there is no way that either Romney or Palin could have predicted that the Ukraine would degenerate into a civil war in 2014 so that allegation is utter nonsense!

Secondly let's put this into context. If Mexico were to dissolve into a civil war US troops would be sent in to "protect American interests". Russia is doing the name thing because the neighboring state of Ukraine is undergoing a civil war. Obviously Russia would prefer that the outcome favor Russian interests and there is no incentive for the EU nations to intervene.

Finally it is utterly ludicrous to expect Obama to intervene militarily in this conflict. Who are US troops supposed to attack over there? What is the objective? "Nation building"? What is the exit plan?

Your entire OP is predicated on a notion that Russia is some kind of "threat" to the USA. You have failed to make that case just as you failed to establish that Romney and Palin had the powers of precognition.

In essence all you wanted was a stick to beat Obama with and this one is a wet noodle!

I have the quotes, Derideo. Might it be the one with the wet noodle here is you?

Then produce them, TK!

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73tGe3JE5IU"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73tGe3JE5IU[/ame]

 

[velvtacheeze]

Sure, but the fact remains that both Romney and Palin predicted exactly what is happening today and Obama said it would never happen. They were right, he was wrong.

The onus is now on you to provide the EXACT quotes where they claimed that Russia would intervene when the Ukraine dissolved into a civil war.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73tGe3JE5IU"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73tGe3JE5IU[/ame]

Palin Mocked in 2008 for Warning Putin May Invade Ukraine if Obama Elected

You lose.

This is happening because Obama is President? You mean to seriously argue that Putin is saying "We're doing this because Obama President, and would not be doing this if McCain or Romney were President." Laughable.