The $3.5T spending bill is 2500 pages AND COUNTING.

[Lesh]

Federal debt is not created from the ether. That's the difference between that and the money for a home mortgage. The money lent to the US government is real money, not ether money. So it does not get destroyed when it is paid back. It will still be around.

Understand now?

Bullshit. I hope you're smarter than that. Are you being dishonest?

Banks GET their money from the Fed. The Fed created it from thin air. And when the Fed gets paid back it goes "poof"

Are you really that uninformed?

 

[MisterBeale]

No, they were trying to put in a provision to allow legal status and a path to citizenship (amnesty) to 8 million illegals who are already here.

The parliamentarian would not let them put that in a reconciliation bill since amnesty has nothing to do with the budget. You can't put extraneous shit in a reconciliation bill that isn't directly connected to spending.

Thanks for the clarification.

 

[Lesh]

Bullshit. I hope you're smarter than that. Are you being dishonest?

Banks GET their money from the Fed. The Fed created it from thin air. And when the Fed gets paid back it goes "poof"

Are you really that uninformed?

Generally that money gets rolled over into new loans so it doesn't get "paid back" and disappear. If we pay BACK that money...it is removed from the economy and that is a BAD thing.

See Deflation

 

[g5000]

Bullshit. I hope you're smarter than that. Are you being dishonest?

Banks GET their money from the Fed. The Fed created it from thin air. And when the Fed gets paid back it goes "poof"

Are you really that uninformed?

You are embarrassing yourself.

The federal debt is borrowed from sovereigns, pension funds, China, endowment funds, and some from the Fed. The Fed buys Treasuries to tinker with interest rates.

Most of the money lent to the US government is hard money. Pension fund money. Endowment fund money. Rich Saudi money. Chinese money. British money. Japanese money.

I have no idea why you are talking about the Fed loaning money to banks. We are talking about the federal debt. You seem to think the Fed and the Treasury as the same thing.

And look, right from your own Cato link:

Unlike the trillions of dollars the Treasury is spending to save the economy by bailing out companies or beefing up unemployment checks, very little of the Fed’s money actually comes from taxpayers or sales of government bonds.

 

[g5000]

Generally that money gets rolled over into new loans so it doesn't get "paid back" and disappear. If we pay BACK that money...it is removed from the economy and that is a BAD thing.

See Deflation

Wrong again. When we pay back that money, it goes to the investors who lent that money. Pension funds, endowment funds, and so forth. Right back into the economy.

Some will go back to China and Japan and Britain and so forth.

 

[Lesh]

You are embarrassing yourself.

The federal debt is borrowed from sovereigns, pension funds, China, endowment funds, and some from the Fed. The Fed buys Treasuries to tinker with interest rates.

Most of the money lent to the US government is hard money. Pension fund money. Endowment fund money. Rich Saudi money. Chinese money. British money. Japanese money.

I have no idea why you are talking about the Fed loaning money to banks. We are talking about the federal debt. You seem to think the Fed and the Treasury as the same thing.

And look, right from your own Cato link:

Unlike the trillions of dollars the Treasury is spending to save the economy by bailing out companies or beefing up unemployment checks, very little of the Fed’s money actually comes from taxpayers or sales of government bonds.

NOPE. That money is created by the Fed FIRST. Where it goes after that is another matter., The Fed LOANS that money out...that it created out of thin air.

Understanding How the Federal Reserve Creates Money

Learn how the Federal Reserve targets and creates new money in the economy, and find out how the savings and loans system magnifies this process.

www.investopedia.com

 

[Lesh]

NOPE. That money is created by the Fed FIRST. Where it goes after that is another matter., The Fed LOANS that money out...that it created out of thin air.

Understanding How the Federal Reserve Creates Money

Learn how the Federal Reserve targets and creates new money in the economy, and find out how the savings and loans system magnifies this process.

www.investopedia.com

• The Federal Reserve, as America's central bank, is responsible for controlling the money supply of the U.S. dollar.
• The Fed creates money through open market operations, i.e. purchasing securities in the market using new money, or by creating bank reserves issued to commercial banks.
• Bank reserves are then multiplied through fractional reserve banking, where banks can lend a portion of the deposits they have on hand.

 

[Lesh]

Wrong again. When we pay back that money, it goes to the investors who lent that money. Pension funds, endowment funds, and so forth. Right back into the economy.

Some will go back to China and Japan and Britain and so forth.

As long as the money gets rolled over (ie the above) all is good). But when the Fed gets paid back...and doesn't roll over new lending...that money goes POOF.

And that is what "paying down the national debt" does.

We continually roll it over and pay the interest on it. That interest amounts to $370B currently. Less than half the Defense budget

 

[g5000]

As long as the money gets rolled over (ie the above) all is good). But when the Fed gets paid back...and doesn't roll over new lending...that money goes POOF.

And that is what "paying down the national debt" does.

We continually roll it over and pay the interest on it. That interest amounts to $370B currently. Less than half the Defense budget

Dude, just stop. How are you translating pension funds, 401k's, sovereign funds, et al. into "the Fed"? Seriously. This is a very bizarre mental block you have.

 

[tshrimp]

The ACA is about 13,000 pages. 2,500 pages isn't even close.

How Many Pages Is Obamacare? - Rob Schwab

Healthcare reform began like any other type of legislation: as a bill. The bill had to go through approvals by committee, the House, the Senate, and ultimately the President before it could be passed into law. During that time it underwent cuts, additions, and amendments. Initially, the bill...

robschwab.com

Initially, the bill clocked in at a whopping 2,700 pages at the time of passage...

but when you start to add in the regulations...
....somewhere in the neighborhood of 20,000

 

[MarathonMike]

lantern2814 Yeah just like all the other mega spending bills they'll have to pass it to see what's in it. And oh, pay no attention to those pages Pelosi and Schumer slipped in at the last minute.

 

[Lesh]

Dude, just stop. How are you translating pension funds, 401k's, sovereign funds, et al. into "the Fed"? Seriously. This is a very bizarre mental block you have.

Dude...cmon. Don't play stupid.

All that money was created by borrowing from the Fed. You keep saying you want to "pay down the debt"

Paying down the debt requires paying back the original obligations to the Fed and not borrowing further .

All that rest is noise and you and I both know it

 

[g5000]

How Many Pages Is Obamacare? - Rob Schwab

Healthcare reform began like any other type of legislation: as a bill. The bill had to go through approvals by committee, the House, the Senate, and ultimately the President before it could be passed into law. During that time it underwent cuts, additions, and amendments. Initially, the bill...

robschwab.com

A budget does not cause the creation of regulations. The ACA does.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/how-many-pages-of-regulations-for-obamacare/2013/05/14/61eec914-bcf9-11e2-9b09-1638acc3942e_blog.html

Hudson, however, made an understandable slip--33 rather than 13--and his “13,000” is in the realm of possibility when you look at the data.

 

[g5000]

Dude...cmon. Don't play stupid.

All that money was created by borrowing from the Fed.

No. Wrong for the umpteenth time. The money comes from pension funds, China, Britain, 401k's, endowments funds, ad infinitum.

Jesus H. Christ, man. Stop making a fool of yourself!

Where is the US government getting all the money it’s spending in the coronavirus crisis? | Brookings

Louise Sheiner and David Wessel of Brookings Hutchins Center explain where the money US government spends on fighting the coronavirus crisis comes from and its impact on national debt.

www.brookings.edu

People and institutions with savings are particularly eager to invest the money in U.S. Treasury debt right now. At times of crisis, institutions, individuals, and foreign governments often prefer the safety of Treasuries instead of putting their money into the stock market, corporate bonds, or real estate. For instance, billions of dollars have moved from money market mutual funds that invest in corporate short-term IOUs to money market funds that invest solely in U.S. government debt. This makes it easier for the U.S. Treasury to borrow more without being forced to pay much higher interest rates.


As I mentioned earlier, the Fed buys SOME government debt to tinker with the interest rate or to bail out the economy during a crisis.

US debt: how big is it and who owns it?

Who owns US debt around the world - and how big is it? Find out how China got to own over $1.4 trillion - and see how it's changed in Obama's first term

www.theguardian.com

Treasury bonds are how the US - and all governments for that matter - borrow hard cash: they issue government securities, which other countries and institutions buy. So, the US national debt is owned mostly in the US - but the $5.4tn foreign-owned debt is owned predominantly by Asian economies.

 

[Lesh]

No. Wrong for the umpteenth time. The money comes from pension funds,

Bullshit. Pension funds can't "create money".

The Fed creates money and lends it out. It runs through the economy and MAY end up in pension funds...but it is CREATED by the Fed.

And when it is paid back TO the Fed (paying down the debt) it disappears. That is actually a BAD thing.

 

[Lesh]

Investopedia

KEY TAKEAWAYS​

• The Federal Reserve, as America's central bank, is responsible for controlling the money supply of the U.S. dollar.
• The Fed creates money through open market operations, i.e. purchasing securities in the market using new money, or by creating bank reserves issued to commercial banks.
• Bank reserves are then multiplied through fractional reserve banking, where banks can lend a portion of the deposits they have on hand.

 

[tshrimp]

A budget does not cause the creation of regulations. The ACA does.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/how-many-pages-of-regulations-for-obamacare/2013/05/14/61eec914-bcf9-11e2-9b09-1638acc3942e_blog.html

Hudson, however, made an understandable slip--33 rather than 13--and his “13,000” is in the realm of possibility when you look at the data.

Never said otherwise. However, in that case, then they are very close in length. Without those you are looking at 2500 vs 2700 pages. I assume that can be within margin of error depending on margins and fonts .

 

[g5000]

Never said otherwise. However, in that case, then they are very close in length. Without those you are looking at 2500 vs 2700 pages. I assume that can be within margin of error depending on margins and fonts .

Okay. It doesn't really matter to me. 2,500 pages is ridiculous in any case.

 

[dblack]

Almost exactly the same size as the "Affordable Care Act" bill. And here we are again, with an enormous bill packed full of God knows what. And if history repeats itself, the shrew Pelosi with be sneaking in lots of pages at the last minute. We keep doing the same things hoping for better results. I think there is a word for that.

Sen. Barrasso (R-WY) Calls Democrats 3.5 Trillion Dollar Spending Bill 'Big Government Socialism'

Listen To The Full Interview Below: Senator Barrasso (R-WY) joined Fox News Radio's Guy Benson Show to discuss the top military brass testimony over the Afghanistan withdrawal, Biden booster confusion and the Democrat's big push to pass major spending bills this week. Senator Barrasso react

radio.foxnews.com

Hiding pork and government expansion requires LOTS of pages.