The abortion of Down's syndrome babies is absolute moral depravity

[dblack]

You are literally dehumanizing human life for the express purpose of rationalizing the morality of ending its life.

Nope. I've expressed no 'purpose' at all. But I've given a fair amount of thought to what constitutes a soul. Living flesh doesn't quite cut it. We can grow that in a vat. What makes a person is consciousness.

 

[koshergrl]

I see. Who gets to decide? What if I decide you are one of the ones who should be eradicated because you aren't good enough?

The parents get to decide on their own fetus.

Just let the mother decide. Just let her take the moral responsibility. Just mind your own business.

We live in a shared society with shared consequences. It is our business to protect the defenseless.

First of all, it isn't person out in the world defenseless against a hostile environment (as it indeed would be if abandoned while afflicted unnecessarily with a condition that rendered it incapable of understanding and dealing with that hostile environment). It is in the woman's body, under her control, as was the choice to conceive.
Second, do we want to take a look at protecting the defenseless? Personally, I very much would like to. Who, what group, is the most defenseless, most suffering? Women. Even in our society, where everyone really, after all, has it pretty good, women often have it a lot worse than we can tolerate. In the world at large, there are broad swathes where women are either literally or very nearly chattel. Let's start with them, this huge part of our population, our sisters. It is much more important to save so many instead of debating details over who gets to decide for a woman what is going to happen to her body.
'Liberating' some far away potentate, even if it isn't just for oil or something other than high ideals of international law, is often enough engaged in. What about liberation for our sisters? "Oh, not by war, certainly", you may protest.Well, we have very powerful means of media persuasion. America got the entire earth drinking "Coke" and wearing jeans and using the Internet and deficit spending. We could work on just subverting whoever is responsible for doing this to our sisters. We could have tried that against the Nazis, too, but it was pretty commonly held that such a course would take too much time. So, if there were ever a cause for militant 'evangelizing', this would be one.
So, yeah, let's go there. Let's talk "protecting the defenseless", because after our sisters there are other collective measures that need taking.

Our sisters suffer more at the hands of the abortionists than the murdered babies themselves.

Abortionists exist to help the sex traffickers' bottom line.

That is the craziest claim yet KG.

You seem to have this notion that the victims of sex traffickers and slavers live pretty awesome lives. Or you just deny their existence altogether.

 

[Likkmee]

Negative eugenics, world wide, of a scale that would have given Hitler and his doktors a shiver up their legs.

"What an age to live in. Get pregnant; see if the baby meets your specifications. If not, just abort and try again."
No decent parent rejects a child’s love because the child is imperfect. Nobody casts aside an eight-year-old because she has bad grades or an attitude problem. So why would we think it is acceptable to destroy the life of a child, the result of a wanted pregnancy, because the child will be disabled? As the progressives put it, isn’t this the most horrible example of ableist privilege?

"If we are going down the road of selective abortion for admirable traits, one has to wonder if oneself would make the cut.
"After all, having a child isn’t really about the child. It’s about you and your hopes and dreams, your demand to live your best life."

Aborting Down Syndrome Babies Is An Absolute Moral Depravity

Profound thinking. Have a look at this. Strong spirit is strong spirit

 

[there4eyeM]

Absolute moral depravity is living in the richest, most powerful nation in all history and casually paying taxes so its military can destroy lives wantonly wherever it wants. The depravity is worsened by disregard for horrible living conditions in that nation.

 

[Wyatt earp]

Negative eugenics, world wide, of a scale that would have given Hitler and his doktors a shiver up their legs.

"What an age to live in. Get pregnant; see if the baby meets your specifications. If not, just abort and try again."
No decent parent rejects a child’s love because the child is imperfect. Nobody casts aside an eight-year-old because she has bad grades or an attitude problem. So why would we think it is acceptable to destroy the life of a child, the result of a wanted pregnancy, because the child will be disabled? As the progressives put it, isn’t this the most horrible example of ableist privilege?

"If we are going down the road of selective abortion for admirable traits, one has to wonder if oneself would make the cut.
"After all, having a child isn’t really about the child. It’s about you and your hopes and dreams, your demand to live your best life."

Aborting Down Syndrome Babies Is An Absolute Moral Depravity

I posted it before, north western hospital specialist said we should abort my 20 year old when she was in the womb...how wrong they were , how right I was, nothing wrong with her.

 

[ding]

You are literally dehumanizing human life for the express purpose of rationalizing the morality of ending its life.

Nope. I've expressed no 'purpose' at all. But I've given a fair amount of thought to what constitutes a soul. Living flesh doesn't quite cut it. We can grow that in a vat. What makes a person is consciousness.

If you believe that abortion is not immoral then it is because you have dehumanized a human life. One that exists in actuality. One that has never existed before and will never exist again. He or she only has this one shot. Those are facts.

You don't gain consciousness until well after birth and no one can prove when that occurs. What we can prove is that at conception a new and specific actual human being is created. Not a potential human being, an actual human being.

 

[ding]

Absolute moral depravity is living in the richest, most powerful nation in all history and casually paying taxes so its military can destroy lives wantonly wherever it wants. The depravity is worsened by disregard for horrible living conditions in that nation.

It seems that you want to ignore personal decisions of immorality because societal decisions of immorality exist. But you seem to forget that these people in society that you are worried about are actually alive and have an opportunity to control their own destiny. You literally are making an argument that since evil exists that it is OK to perpetuate more of it. SMH.

 

[Taz]

Is a Downs Syndrome person proof that god can fuck up?

 

[Disir]

and have an opportunity to control their own destiny.

Unless you are born with severe cognitive disabilities and then you cannot control your own destiny.........

 

[strollingbones]

Raising children has never been more costly. According to the US Department of Agriculture, it takes about $240,000 dollars to raise a child from birth to age 18. Add special needs into the equation and the amount quadruples. I have one child, a son, who has been diagnosed with Down syndrome.Jul 22, 2014
The Cost of Raising a Child With Special Needs - The Kids Tips ...
The Cost of Raising a Child With Special Needs



do you end up robbing your other kids.....pouring all your money into one special needs child?

 

[strollingbones]

perhaps the fear of every parent ....any child can be reduced to a special needs child with the 'right' accident or disease

and again there is not much help out there

 

[koshergrl]

Negative eugenics, world wide, of a scale that would have given Hitler and his doktors a shiver up their legs.

"What an age to live in. Get pregnant; see if the baby meets your specifications. If not, just abort and try again."
No decent parent rejects a child’s love because the child is imperfect. Nobody casts aside an eight-year-old because she has bad grades or an attitude problem. So why would we think it is acceptable to destroy the life of a child, the result of a wanted pregnancy, because the child will be disabled? As the progressives put it, isn’t this the most horrible example of ableist privilege?

"If we are going down the road of selective abortion for admirable traits, one has to wonder if oneself would make the cut.
"After all, having a child isn’t really about the child. It’s about you and your hopes and dreams, your demand to live your best life."

Aborting Down Syndrome Babies Is An Absolute Moral Depravity

People have to think in long term. This is not "bad grades and an attitude problem".
This is a cognitive disability. This is life long care and should the parent pass away then there is no one available. If the child receives SSI before 18 then at some point they will get kicked off and if no one is there to navigate the SSA then they will have nothing.
More Than Two-Fifths Of Homeless Have Disabilities - Disability Scoop

When the US can manage to effectively care for the ones that are living then this can become a necessary conversation. So far, they have done a shitty job and they continue to do so because these people cannot fight back. They cannot navigate the system. And there is no real place for them to go, as nursing homes etc. were privatized.

Er..kids don't get kicked off ssi when they turn 18, not if they're disabled.

And we don't kill people for being disabled. That's what nazis, commies, and other disgusting criminals do.

 

[strollingbones]

it is sad when 'go fund me' pages are the go to answer for people in desperate need

 

[koshergrl]

You are correct, the abortion of those with Down’s syndrome will prevent all hardships that these people may have if they are allowed to live.

Perhaps all fetuses that “all not good enough” should be aborted. It could lead to a utopia if all the undesirables don’t exist.

That would be a stretch. To date, it's still a decision that is made by the potential egg donor.

If people did what I thought they should do, then this wouldn't be an issue.

This is what we have on our plate as it stands right now. Lifetime care. Solve the problem.

Is it a stretch? Standards get lowered incrementally, not all at once.

This is the US, if you have people that have Down Syndrom, people with cognitive disabilities and the mentally ill living on the streets then you don't have any standards. Solve the problem.

We have all kinds of people living on the streets, Disir, right? Shouldn't we include them too?

How about if we round them all up an exterminate them? Would that solve the problem and make you feel better that they are not living on the streets? My point here is that these people would rather live on the streets than be dead, Disir. If that were not the case, they would kill themselves.

But putting that aside, women who wait to have children should not be surprised that they end up with a Downs baby. We call that the consequences of their decision.

Solve the problem, Ding. You are simply trying to flip the script.

Fuck you. You don't solve the problem by killing babies and other vulnerable people. The problem isn't the disabled...it's people like you who think that your discomfort is a good reason to kill people.

 

[strollingbones]

the nazis the spartans the list of cultures that cast out the disabled is long....the vikings etc

the parents make the decision to abort....not dis

 

[strollingbones]

Past and Present Perceptions Towards Disability: A Historical Perspective | Munyi | Disability Studies Quarterly

 

[koshergrl]

Negative eugenics, world wide, of a scale that would have given Hitler and his doktors a shiver up their legs.

"What an age to live in. Get pregnant; see if the baby meets your specifications. If not, just abort and try again."
No decent parent rejects a child’s love because the child is imperfect. Nobody casts aside an eight-year-old because she has bad grades or an attitude problem. So why would we think it is acceptable to destroy the life of a child, the result of a wanted pregnancy, because the child will be disabled? As the progressives put it, isn’t this the most horrible example of ableist privilege?

"If we are going down the road of selective abortion for admirable traits, one has to wonder if oneself would make the cut.
"After all, having a child isn’t really about the child. It’s about you and your hopes and dreams, your demand to live your best life."

Aborting Down Syndrome Babies Is An Absolute Moral Depravity

I posted it before, north western hospital specialist said we should abort my 20 year old when she was in the womb...how wrong they were , how right I was, nothing wrong with her.

Yeah the down's syndrome marker is just a marker..it's no guarantee that the child will be disabled. I read that the accuracy rate was something around 50 percent. And it used to be that it couldn't even be done until you were 5 months along.

 

[strollingbones]

say what?

The diagnostic procedures available for prenatal diagnosis of Down syndrome are chorionic villus sampling (CVS) and amniocentesis. These procedures, which carry up to a 1% risk of causing a spontaneous termination (miscarriage), are nearly 100%accurate in diagnosing Down syndrome.
Understanding a Diagnosis of Down Syndrome - NDSS
Understanding a Diagnosis of Down Syndrome - NDSS

 

[strollingbones]

do you have a link for the 50% bs?

 

[koshergrl]

Also in all my years in social services, I have yet to serve a down's syndrome adult who is receiving any benefits. Ever. I've been in social services for decades. Not only do they typically die young..generally speaking their families foot the entire bill of their existence.

So ask yourself..why do people think they should die?

Answer...because the monsters aren't the babies with down's. The monsters are the people who find them abhorrent and deserving of death.