The Arab Spring: A Cautionary Tale for Evangelicals

Oldguy

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Sep 25, 2012
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THE ARAB SPRING: A CAUTIONARY TALE FOR EVANGELICALS

The Arab Spring movement began in Tunisia about 3 years ago. Beginning as a popular uprising against dictatorial governments, it first toppled the regime in Tunisia, then spread across the region to Libya, Egypt, Syria, Yemen, Bahrain and other places with mixed results. In some places, such as Libya and Egypt, the rebellious masses were successful in overthrowing the entrenched powers. In others, like Bahrain and Saudi Arabia, the ruling powers either crushed the rebellion or negotiated some superficial concessions which have quieted the turmoil, for now. In Syria, the movement began a full-fledged civil war which is not yet ended.

Starting out with high hopes of transforming their societies into functioning democracies, the movement quickly fell into disarray, even in those countries where it was most successful. Egypt, for instance, is on the verge to total war among its citizens, Libya is beset by internal turmoil and Tunisia teeters on the brink of collapse. Lebanon, Jordan and Turkey risk being sucked into the morass of Syria.

Why? That's an easy answer: Religion. Some form of Islam won the open elections in all those places. Just as with previous efforts to democratize the Arab world, including Iraq, Afghanistan, Lebanon and Palestine, when given the choice, The People opted to vote their religious convictions. In America, they would be called "values voters" who cast their ballot based upon their faith, not necessarily what's best for the country as a whole.

Sadly, the losing factions in all those places have not shown a willingness to accept the Will of The People and have risen up against whatever brand of Islam won the elections. The current violence pits Sunni against Shia, Christian against Islamic, Wahabbi against just about everybody, religious against secularist. As the violence and killing grows, adherents of the differing positions travel from other countries to take part, to "defend" their faith, whatever it is. That's conveniently written off by the west as "terrorists" and "Islamic radicals" taking advantage of the fluid situation. There's some truth to that, of course, but the motivation for becoming involved is still their faith. That's still what drives them to take the risk. You may not like what they believe in, but you have to admire their dedication.

Why is this all a cautionary tale for Evangelical's, you ask?

Simply this: What if the Evangelical, "values" voters succeed in packing state, local and the federal government with Christian's? What if their ideas about imposing Christian order on society by the power of law actually comes to fruition? There aren't many true Re-Constructionist's or Theonomist's out there, but there are millions who subscribe to the idea without truly understanding what it is they support.

They haven't thought it through to its ultimate conclusion. Fed a steady diet of promised reforms based upon "Christian" values, such as abortion reform for instance, they vote for candidates who promise the most "Christian" laws and rules. It's considered an act of Faith to support "Christian" candidates in many places and by many people. In an unhealthy blend of Christian faith and partisan politics, they fall victim to the worst kind of religious jingoism and believe they are actually supporting Jesus Christ by their vote.

But, what if they succeed? Could such a revolution result in peace and harmony, or would we descend into the kind of religious madness we see going on in the Arab world? Would Christian sectarianism divide us to the point of violence?

Consider this: In a truly functioning democracy, the majority gets to make the rules. Oh, sure there are protections for minorities positions, but how long would that last when the majority can claim the Will of God? I submit the answer is…not long. How could a true Believer resist His Will and still be considered a Believer and not an enemy of the state or people? Or, worse, an enemy of God?

Current demographics show us that the birth rate is still declining among Protestant Christians, but the nation is being flooded by mostly Catholic Hispanic immigrants. What happens when those Catholics achieve critical mass and are able to win elections? Will you, Mr. and Mrs. Baptist or Methodist or Lutheran, accept God's Will as expressed through laws based upon the edicts of Rome? Will you Catholics accept laws based upon the ideas found in the Reformation? Worse, once the idea of religion-dominated government takes root, what happens if some non-Christian, or even atheist, majority arises in the future? Will you obey the law, or will you resist?

Even if none of those things happen, what transpires when some brand of Christianity other than yours takes hold of the reins of power? Will Pentecostals or Catholics or "emerging" Christians peacefully submit to laws based upon, say, the Southern Baptist's interpretation of scripture? Will Southern Baptist's submit to laws based upon the teachings of the channeled spirit of "Jesus?" If there is no recourse via the ballot box, what will disaffected Christians do?

I have no trouble imagining that America would turn out just like Syria today, with every conceivable brand of Christianity fighting to defend its own version the the "truth." Do you? Why not?

If we want to avoid ending up just like those countries which have gone through the Arab Spring, I'd suggest we leave our religion at home when we vote. Vote your faith, of course, but don't be sucked in by politicians or parties promising a religious utopia based upon Jesus Christ. Their image of Christ most likely isn't like yours.

Don't be fooled. That road leads to madness, bloodshed, violence and horror, just as we're seeing in the Arab world today. And, all if it done in the name of "God." Oh, I know…we're not like that anymore. Really? Show me where human nature has changed since the Garden, and especially in the area of faith.
 
THE ARAB SPRING: A CAUTIONARY TALE FOR EVANGELICALS

What a spurious thesis as it ignores the fact that the United States was dominated by Christians in government positions for the vast majority of it's history. Did we have a theocracy for all that time and just didn't know it?

Personally I have no concern regarding Christians (even the re-constructionist and dominion theology types) imposing their religious values on me via the force of government, my concern is the statists that are imposing and have been imposing for the last 100 or so years their authoritarian rule on every aspect of social and economic life they can get their grubby paws wrapped around. In fact given the choice between the two I'd take Christian values over the warped values of the current statist regime any day.
 
THE ARAB SPRING: A CAUTIONARY TALE FOR EVANGELICALS

What a spurious thesis as it ignores the fact that the United States was dominated by Christians in government positions for the vast majority of it's history. Did we have a theocracy for all that time and just didn't know it?

Personally I have no concern regarding Christians (even the re-constructionist and dominion theology types) imposing their religious values on me via the force of government, my concern is the statists that are imposing and have been imposing for the last 100 or so years their authoritarian rule on every aspect of social and economic life they can get their grubby paws wrapped around. In fact given the choice between the two I'd take Christian values over the warped values of the current statist regime any day.

Actually...........................if you'd pay attention to the news and what the GOP is saying, they really do have warped values that are trying to overcome the current regime right now.

Wanna talk about the abortion clinics being closed? How about the way they try to say birth control is a bad thing? I thought you would only have a child if you could pay for it (which is what the GOP says a lot), and yet it costs about 4,000 dollars to just walk in the door (a lot less if you're a military mom, but then again, it's a socialist system paid for by the taxpayers, the money I had to pay was just what my ex-wife ate while she was in the hospital................about 25 dollars).

Personally? I don't like one belief system saying what I have to do or think.

Christians are even going after Obamacare, and they don't know what it's about.
 
THE ARAB SPRING: A CAUTIONARY TALE FOR EVANGELICALS

What a spurious thesis as it ignores the fact that the United States was dominated by Christians in government positions for the vast majority of it's history. Did we have a theocracy for all that time and just didn't know it?

Personally I have no concern regarding Christians (even the re-constructionist and dominion theology types) imposing their religious values on me via the force of government, my concern is the statists that are imposing and have been imposing for the last 100 or so years their authoritarian rule on every aspect of social and economic life they can get their grubby paws wrapped around. In fact given the choice between the two I'd take Christian values over the warped values of the current statist regime any day.

Actually...........................if you'd pay attention to the news and what the GOP is saying, they really do have warped values that are trying to overcome the current regime right now.
Which "warped values" would those be? and which are the ones that are "trying to overcome the current regime" ? All I see from the GOP is another group of branded statists espousing different methods from that of their competition for power.

Wanna talk about the abortion clinics being closed?
Not particularly since both sides of that issue have and continue to make principled arguments for their point of view.

Personally? I don't like one belief system saying what I have to do or think.
.
If that's the case you should be FAR more worried about the statist apologias that is continually attempting to program individuals to believe that the wants, needs and purposes of the state supersede those of the individual.
 
You're really kind of stupid and ill-informed, aren't you?


I am? How?
By pretending this nation is in danger of becoming mandatorily Christian.

By pretending that evangelical Christians are like Wahhabi Muslims.
By pretending that people in the United States are like people in Egypt.
By pretending that protestant Christianity is equal to fundamentalist Islam.
By pretending that the vast majority of people in Egypt etc are not Muslims.

There are numerous points of vapid statements and flaccid reasoning in the post. Too many even to refute. It is left wing fantasy.
I guess those "radical ideas" include respect for human life, limited central government, and fiscal prudence. Who knows what the leftists would make of Madison were he alive today.
 
I have no trouble imagining that America would turn out just like Syria today, with every conceivable brand of Christianity fighting to defend its own version the the "truth." Do you? Why not?

I have a lot of trouble imagining that, because as a nation and culture the US is simply so different to Syria, but as an analogy I think the OP makes some interesting points.

Certainly the lack of tolerance amongst Evangelists is worrying to anyone who values personal freedoms, but is not a Christian.

Would an Evangelical administration respect the right on non-Christians to have an abortion, for instance?

I suspect not.
 
I do not believe the original post is correct to use the Arab Spring to predict Catholic-Protestant strife.

Catholics and Protestants in the United States have lived in complete peace because of a concept called Separation of Church and State...thanks Mr. Jefferson. Neither side has ANY HOPE OF using the State to oppress the other...and peace is the result.

Not so with Islam....not so by a long shot. Muslims are decades, if not centuries, away from getting their Jefferson.
 
I have no trouble imagining that America would turn out just like Syria today, with every conceivable brand of Christianity fighting to defend its own version the the "truth." Do you? Why not?

I have a lot of trouble imagining that, because as a nation and culture the US is simply so different to Syria, but as an analogy I think the OP makes some interesting points.

Certainly the lack of tolerance amongst Evangelists is worrying to anyone who values personal freedoms, but is not a Christian.

Would an Evangelical administration respect the right on non-Christians to have an abortion, for instance?

I suspect not.

Most thinking people reject giving someone the right of murder.
The Left is far more authoritarian. Right to keep and bear arms? No. Right to smoke? No. Right to drink large soft drinks? No. Right to choose your school? No. Right to negotiate with employees over wages and benefits? No. Right to run your business free from gov't interference? No.
The Left is the new Taliban. It is no wonder the left just loves them some Muslims.
 
THE ARAB SPRING: A CAUTIONARY TALE FOR EVANGELICALS

What a spurious thesis as it ignores the fact that the United States was dominated by Christians in government positions for the vast majority of it's history. Did we have a theocracy for all that time and just didn't know it?

Personally I have no concern regarding Christians (even the re-constructionist and dominion theology types) imposing their religious values on me via the force of government, my concern is the statists that are imposing and have been imposing for the last 100 or so years their authoritarian rule on every aspect of social and economic life they can get their grubby paws wrapped around. In fact given the choice between the two I'd take Christian values over the warped values of the current statist regime any day.

Actually...........................if you'd pay attention to the news and what the GOP is saying, they really do have warped values that are trying to overcome the current regime right now.

Wanna talk about the abortion clinics being closed? How about the way they try to say birth control is a bad thing? I thought you would only have a child if you could pay for it (which is what the GOP says a lot), and yet it costs about 4,000 dollars to just walk in the door (a lot less if you're a military mom, but then again, it's a socialist system paid for by the taxpayers, the money I had to pay was just what my ex-wife ate while she was in the hospital................about 25 dollars).

Personally? I don't like one belief system saying what I have to do or think.

Christians are even going after Obamacare, and they don't know what it's about.
It would be nice if you could argue against what Christians actually do and say, instead of making up shit.

Abortion clinics are being closed because new laws set a minimum safety standard. Apparently, when the left says they want abortions safe, legal, and rare, they're 2/3 lying.

And very few people say birth control is a bad thing. We just don't want to have to pay for your birth control. Condoms are very cheap. Surely you can do without a half-caff half-fat soy latte grande with rose scented syrup and vegan dark-chocolate biscotti one day a week to fund your sex life.
 
I am? How?
By pretending this nation is in danger of becoming mandatorily Christian.

By pretending that evangelical Christians are like Wahhabi Muslims.
By pretending that people in the United States are like people in Egypt.
By pretending that protestant Christianity is equal to fundamentalist Islam.
By pretending that the vast majority of people in Egypt etc are not Muslims.

There are numerous points of vapid statements and flaccid reasoning in the post. Too many even to refute. It is left wing fantasy.
I guess those "radical ideas" include respect for human life, limited central government, and fiscal prudence. Who knows what the leftists would make of Madison were he alive today.
And the REALLY funny part? Those who bemoan the coming Dominion give radical Islam a free pass for actually doing what they're afraid Christians are going to do.

And by "funny", I mean "pathetically hypocritical and historically ignorant".
 
I do not believe the original post is correct to use the Arab Spring to predict Catholic-Protestant strife.

Catholics and Protestants in the United States have lived in complete peace because of a concept called Separation of Church and State...thanks Mr. Jefferson. Neither side has ANY HOPE OF using the State to oppress the other...and peace is the result.

Not so with Islam....not so by a long shot. Muslims are decades, if not centuries, away from getting their Jefferson.

When their Jefferson shows up, he will be beheaded in the street with a rusty knife.
 
I have no trouble imagining that America would turn out just like Syria today, with every conceivable brand of Christianity fighting to defend its own version the the "truth." Do you? Why not?

I have a lot of trouble imagining that, because as a nation and culture the US is simply so different to Syria, but as an analogy I think the OP makes some interesting points.

Certainly the lack of tolerance amongst Evangelists is worrying to anyone who values personal freedoms, but is not a Christian.

Would an Evangelical administration respect the right on non-Christians to have an abortion, for instance?

I suspect not.

Most thinking people reject giving someone the right of murder.
The Left is far more authoritarian. Right to keep and bear arms? No. Right to smoke? No. Right to drink large soft drinks? No. Right to choose your school? No. Right to negotiate with employees over wages and benefits? No. Right to run your business free from gov't interference? No.
The Left is the new Taliban. It is no wonder the left just loves them some Muslims.

So true. The left really is the new Taliban. In Afghanistan, the Taliban forbid celebration in sporting events. The left has imposed excessive celebration in our sporting events. There is no cheering, dancing, pointing, 15 different acts are expressly prohibited by the NFL excessive celebration rules. That's today, more acts will follow as they become offensive to the losing team. The Taliban said that acts of celebration are offensive to allah. The left says such acts are offensive to someone.
 
And the REALLY funny part? Those who bemoan the coming Dominion give radical Islam a free pass for actually doing what they're afraid Christians are going to do.

And by "funny", I mean "pathetically hypocritical and historically ignorant".

Firstly, I have never seen anyone give radical Islam a "free pass" for terrorism - have you?

For instance, can you tell us who gave terrorists a "free pass" for 9/11 or Boston?

Secondly, the difference for Americans between what a government might do in Egypt is a very different issue to what a government might do in the US, isn't it?

Does it really surprise you that Americans are more concerned about their own rights?

I hadn't realised that you were an expert on Middle Eastern history - where did you study?
 

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