The Arab Spring: A Cautionary Tale for Evangelicals

[georgephillip]

Last March Nafeez Mosaddeq Ahmed offered the following explanation of why food riots are likely to become the new normal:

"We now know that the fundamental triggers for the Arab spring were unprecedented food price rises.

"The first sign things were unravelling hit in 2008, when a global rice shortage coincided with dramatic increases in staple food prices, triggering food riots across the middle east, north Africa and south Asia.

"A month before the fall of the Egyptian and Tunisian regimes, the UN's Food and Agriculture Organisation (FAO) reported record high food prices for dairy, meat, sugar and cereals."

Why food riots are likely to become the new normal | Nafeez Mosaddeq Ahmed | Environment | theguardian.com

IMHO, Americans have far more to fear from Radical Capitalists than from Radical Islam and Evangelical Christianity combined.

 

[daveman]

I find it interesting that a few radicals does not make up a religion when discussing Islam, but all evangelicals are radicals when it comes to exercising the peaceful vote.

Evangelism is a fairly radical form of Christianity.

It's not like we're discussing Lutheranism.

Get back to me when evangelicals start sawing people's heads off.

 

[The Rabbi]

Last March Nafeez Mosaddeq Ahmed offered the following explanation of why food riots are likely to become the new normal:

"We now know that the fundamental triggers for the Arab spring were unprecedented food price rises.

"The first sign things were unravelling hit in 2008, when a global rice shortage coincided with dramatic increases in staple food prices, triggering food riots across the middle east, north Africa and south Asia.

"A month before the fall of the Egyptian and Tunisian regimes, the UN's Food and Agriculture Organisation (FAO) reported record high food prices for dairy, meat, sugar and cereals."

Why food riots are likely to become the new normal | Nafeez Mosaddeq Ahmed | Environment | theguardian.com

IMHO, Americans have far more to fear from Radical Capitalists than from Radical Islam and Evangelical Christianity combined.

You understand that gov't mandates for ethanol in gasoline was a big contributor, right? Along with a weak dollar policy.
Radical capitalism would not have created this problem. Problems are created by gov't policies.

 

[georgephillip]

Last March Nafeez Mosaddeq Ahmed offered the following explanation of why food riots are likely to become the new normal:

"We now know that the fundamental triggers for the Arab spring were unprecedented food price rises.

"The first sign things were unravelling hit in 2008, when a global rice shortage coincided with dramatic increases in staple food prices, triggering food riots across the middle east, north Africa and south Asia.

"A month before the fall of the Egyptian and Tunisian regimes, the UN's Food and Agriculture Organisation (FAO) reported record high food prices for dairy, meat, sugar and cereals."

Why food riots are likely to become the new normal | Nafeez Mosaddeq Ahmed | Environment | theguardian.com

IMHO, Americans have far more to fear from Radical Capitalists than from Radical Islam and Evangelical Christianity combined.

You understand that gov't mandates for ethanol in gasoline was a big contributor, right? Along with a weak dollar policy.
Radical capitalism would not have created this problem. Problems are created by gov't policies.

Radical capitalists seem to control most governments, judging by the ever widening wealth inequality gap. Ahmed's argument is that a "fatal cocktail of climate, energy and economic challenges" will eventually impact the developed world in ways similar to what we're seeing in Egypt today.

"The key issue, of course, is climate change. Droughts exacerbated by global warming in key food-basket regions have already led to a 10-20% drop in rice yields over the past decade. Last year, four-fifths of the US experienced a heatwave, there were prolonged droughts in Russia and Africa, a lighter monsoon in India and floods in Pakistan – extreme weather events that were likely linked to climate change afflicting the world's major food basket regions."

Why food riots are likely to become the new normal | Nafeez Mosaddeq Ahmed | Environment | theguardian.com

 

[deltex1]

THE ARAB SPRING: A CAUTIONARY TALE FOR EVANGELICALS

The Arab Spring movement began in Tunisia about 3 years ago. Beginning as a popular uprising against dictatorial governments, it first toppled the regime in Tunisia, then spread across the region to Libya, Egypt, Syria, Yemen, Bahrain and other places with mixed results. In some places, such as Libya and Egypt, the rebellious masses were successful in overthrowing the entrenched powers. In others, like Bahrain and Saudi Arabia, the ruling powers either crushed the rebellion or negotiated some superficial concessions which have quieted the turmoil, for now. In Syria, the movement began a full-fledged civil war which is not yet ended.

Starting out with high hopes of transforming their societies into functioning democracies, the movement quickly fell into disarray, even in those countries where it was most successful. Egypt, for instance, is on the verge to total war among its citizens, Libya is beset by internal turmoil and Tunisia teeters on the brink of collapse. Lebanon, Jordan and Turkey risk being sucked into the morass of Syria.

Why? That's an easy answer: Religion. Some form of Islam won the open elections in all those places. Just as with previous efforts to democratize the Arab world, including Iraq, Afghanistan, Lebanon and Palestine, when given the choice, The People opted to vote their religious convictions. In America, they would be called "values voters" who cast their ballot based upon their faith, not necessarily what's best for the country as a whole.

Sadly, the losing factions in all those places have not shown a willingness to accept the Will of The People and have risen up against whatever brand of Islam won the elections. The current violence pits Sunni against Shia, Christian against Islamic, Wahabbi against just about everybody, religious against secularist. As the violence and killing grows, adherents of the differing positions travel from other countries to take part, to "defend" their faith, whatever it is. That's conveniently written off by the west as "terrorists" and "Islamic radicals" taking advantage of the fluid situation. There's some truth to that, of course, but the motivation for becoming involved is still their faith. That's still what drives them to take the risk. You may not like what they believe in, but you have to admire their dedication.

Why is this all a cautionary tale for Evangelical's, you ask?

Simply this: What if the Evangelical, "values" voters succeed in packing state, local and the federal government with Christian's? What if their ideas about imposing Christian order on society by the power of law actually comes to fruition? There aren't many true Re-Constructionist's or Theonomist's out there, but there are millions who subscribe to the idea without truly understanding what it is they support.

They haven't thought it through to its ultimate conclusion. Fed a steady diet of promised reforms based upon "Christian" values, such as abortion reform for instance, they vote for candidates who promise the most "Christian" laws and rules. It's considered an act of Faith to support "Christian" candidates in many places and by many people. In an unhealthy blend of Christian faith and partisan politics, they fall victim to the worst kind of religious jingoism and believe they are actually supporting Jesus Christ by their vote.

But, what if they succeed? Could such a revolution result in peace and harmony, or would we descend into the kind of religious madness we see going on in the Arab world? Would Christian sectarianism divide us to the point of violence?

Consider this: In a truly functioning democracy, the majority gets to make the rules. Oh, sure there are protections for minorities positions, but how long would that last when the majority can claim the Will of God? I submit the answer is…not long. How could a true Believer resist His Will and still be considered a Believer and not an enemy of the state or people? Or, worse, an enemy of God?

Current demographics show us that the birth rate is still declining among Protestant Christians, but the nation is being flooded by mostly Catholic Hispanic immigrants. What happens when those Catholics achieve critical mass and are able to win elections? Will you, Mr. and Mrs. Baptist or Methodist or Lutheran, accept God's Will as expressed through laws based upon the edicts of Rome? Will you Catholics accept laws based upon the ideas found in the Reformation? Worse, once the idea of religion-dominated government takes root, what happens if some non-Christian, or even atheist, majority arises in the future? Will you obey the law, or will you resist?

Even if none of those things happen, what transpires when some brand of Christianity other than yours takes hold of the reins of power? Will Pentecostals or Catholics or "emerging" Christians peacefully submit to laws based upon, say, the Southern Baptist's interpretation of scripture? Will Southern Baptist's submit to laws based upon the teachings of the channeled spirit of "Jesus?" If there is no recourse via the ballot box, what will disaffected Christians do?

I have no trouble imagining that America would turn out just like Syria today, with every conceivable brand of Christianity fighting to defend its own version the the "truth." Do you? Why not?

If we want to avoid ending up just like those countries which have gone through the Arab Spring, I'd suggest we leave our religion at home when we vote. Vote your faith, of course, but don't be sucked in by politicians or parties promising a religious utopia based upon Jesus Christ. Their image of Christ most likely isn't like yours.

Don't be fooled. That road leads to madness, bloodshed, violence and horror, just as we're seeing in the Arab world today. And, all if it done in the name of "God." Oh, I know…we're not like that anymore. Really? Show me where human nature has changed since the Garden, and especially in the area of faith.

How old are you old guy...that was senile

 

[Intense]

THE ARAB SPRING: A CAUTIONARY TALE FOR EVANGELICALS

The Arab Spring movement began in Tunisia about 3 years ago. Beginning as a popular uprising against dictatorial governments, it first toppled the regime in Tunisia, then spread across the region to Libya, Egypt, Syria, Yemen, Bahrain and other places with mixed results. In some places, such as Libya and Egypt, the rebellious masses were successful in overthrowing the entrenched powers. In others, like Bahrain and Saudi Arabia, the ruling powers either crushed the rebellion or negotiated some superficial concessions which have quieted the turmoil, for now. In Syria, the movement began a full-fledged civil war which is not yet ended.

Starting out with high hopes of transforming their societies into functioning democracies, the movement quickly fell into disarray, even in those countries where it was most successful. Egypt, for instance, is on the verge to total war among its citizens, Libya is beset by internal turmoil and Tunisia teeters on the brink of collapse. Lebanon, Jordan and Turkey risk being sucked into the morass of Syria.

Why? That's an easy answer: Religion. Some form of Islam won the open elections in all those places. Just as with previous efforts to democratize the Arab world, including Iraq, Afghanistan, Lebanon and Palestine, when given the choice, The People opted to vote their religious convictions. In America, they would be called "values voters" who cast their ballot based upon their faith, not necessarily what's best for the country as a whole.

Sadly, the losing factions in all those places have not shown a willingness to accept the Will of The People and have risen up against whatever brand of Islam won the elections. The current violence pits Sunni against Shia, Christian against Islamic, Wahabbi against just about everybody, religious against secularist. As the violence and killing grows, adherents of the differing positions travel from other countries to take part, to "defend" their faith, whatever it is. That's conveniently written off by the west as "terrorists" and "Islamic radicals" taking advantage of the fluid situation. There's some truth to that, of course, but the motivation for becoming involved is still their faith. That's still what drives them to take the risk. You may not like what they believe in, but you have to admire their dedication.

Why is this all a cautionary tale for Evangelical's, you ask?

Simply this: What if the Evangelical, "values" voters succeed in packing state, local and the federal government with Christian's? What if their ideas about imposing Christian order on society by the power of law actually comes to fruition? There aren't many true Re-Constructionist's or Theonomist's out there, but there are millions who subscribe to the idea without truly understanding what it is they support.

They haven't thought it through to its ultimate conclusion. Fed a steady diet of promised reforms based upon "Christian" values, such as abortion reform for instance, they vote for candidates who promise the most "Christian" laws and rules. It's considered an act of Faith to support "Christian" candidates in many places and by many people. In an unhealthy blend of Christian faith and partisan politics, they fall victim to the worst kind of religious jingoism and believe they are actually supporting Jesus Christ by their vote.

But, what if they succeed? Could such a revolution result in peace and harmony, or would we descend into the kind of religious madness we see going on in the Arab world? Would Christian sectarianism divide us to the point of violence?

Consider this: In a truly functioning democracy, the majority gets to make the rules. Oh, sure there are protections for minorities positions, but how long would that last when the majority can claim the Will of God? I submit the answer is…not long. How could a true Believer resist His Will and still be considered a Believer and not an enemy of the state or people? Or, worse, an enemy of God?

Current demographics show us that the birth rate is still declining among Protestant Christians, but the nation is being flooded by mostly Catholic Hispanic immigrants. What happens when those Catholics achieve critical mass and are able to win elections? Will you, Mr. and Mrs. Baptist or Methodist or Lutheran, accept God's Will as expressed through laws based upon the edicts of Rome? Will you Catholics accept laws based upon the ideas found in the Reformation? Worse, once the idea of religion-dominated government takes root, what happens if some non-Christian, or even atheist, majority arises in the future? Will you obey the law, or will you resist?

Even if none of those things happen, what transpires when some brand of Christianity other than yours takes hold of the reins of power? Will Pentecostals or Catholics or "emerging" Christians peacefully submit to laws based upon, say, the Southern Baptist's interpretation of scripture? Will Southern Baptist's submit to laws based upon the teachings of the channeled spirit of "Jesus?" If there is no recourse via the ballot box, what will disaffected Christians do?

I have no trouble imagining that America would turn out just like Syria today, with every conceivable brand of Christianity fighting to defend its own version the the "truth." Do you? Why not?

If we want to avoid ending up just like those countries which have gone through the Arab Spring, I'd suggest we leave our religion at home when we vote. Vote your faith, of course, but don't be sucked in by politicians or parties promising a religious utopia based upon Jesus Christ. Their image of Christ most likely isn't like yours.

Don't be fooled. That road leads to madness, bloodshed, violence and horror, just as we're seeing in the Arab world today. And, all if it done in the name of "God." Oh, I know…we're not like that anymore. Really? Show me where human nature has changed since the Garden, and especially in the area of faith.

You do know that "Separation of Church and State" is a Christian Principle, which Locke took from the Parable, "Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's, and God what is God's", right? Good try though. Our History being rooted in Christian Principles, tested and tried, principles, is not a bad thing, especially when rooted in reason, maybe you could try harder to distinguish between principle and Dogma.

 

[daveman]

Last March Nafeez Mosaddeq Ahmed offered the following explanation of why food riots are likely to become the new normal:

"We now know that the fundamental triggers for the Arab spring were unprecedented food price rises.

"The first sign things were unravelling hit in 2008, when a global rice shortage coincided with dramatic increases in staple food prices, triggering food riots across the middle east, north Africa and south Asia.

"A month before the fall of the Egyptian and Tunisian regimes, the UN's Food and Agriculture Organisation (FAO) reported record high food prices for dairy, meat, sugar and cereals."

Why food riots are likely to become the new normal | Nafeez Mosaddeq Ahmed | Environment | theguardian.com

IMHO, Americans have far more to fear from Radical Capitalists than from Radical Islam and Evangelical Christianity combined.

If you're talking about food riots, it's environmentalists we need to be concerned about.

Paying more for food? Blame the ethanol mandate - CNN.com

 

[georgephillip]

"We are being told by the ethanol producers, the corn growers and Secretary of Agriculture Tom Vilsack that eliminating the ethanol mandate would not significantly reduce global food costs.

"But how could that be when roughly 14% of the world's corn crop is being converted into ethanol in the U.S.? In addition to corn being used for biofuel, taxpayer-subsidized biodiesel is using up more soybeans each year.

"While some say that attempting to change the ethanol mandate is politically impossible in an election year that depends so much on the Midwest swing states, there is a loud and growing chorus of voices that are calling for an urgent end to the mandate.

"Greg Page, CEO of Cargill, one of the world's largest agricultural corporations, recently urged: 'We need to move to more market-driven biofuels policies, not inflexible mandates, subsidies and tariffs.'"

So how do we know whose self-interest contributes least to rising food prices?

Paying more for food? Blame the ethanol mandate - CNN.com