The Battle: Truth vs. Ideology

[Camp]

Well, this is it! Coming up, the last of the questions under discussion.

Now for the worse news: the last question coming up, and your chances to recoup any succor aren't looking good.
Here we go:

Question #8. When Alger Hiss was exposed as a Soviet spy...why did Roosevelt promote him?

HB: Finally, Hiss, scholars have been debating him for years. That debate will go on forever unless someday the US declassifies documents to show what some speculate was a counter intelligence effort and operation that makes him an unrecognized hero.


PC: Did you actually suggest that Hiss is a "hero"?????
Oh, boy.

#8 = Bait

How to Trap a Skunk Trapping Tips and Bait

 

[whitehall]

In example of ideology is the knee jerk defense of an administration that kept the "great depression" going for two terms until the shooting war that cost the lives of over 300,000 Americans. An example of fact is the incredible negligence that allowed the attack on Pearl Harbor to happen and the loss of an entire Army in the Philippines within four months. The only information available to Americans for more than four decades was filtered through the democrat party affiliates in the news media. It's easy to find the truth in the greatest Country in the world but most pop-culture educated Americans only know (or care) what the democrat party affiliated media wrote in the pop-culture history books.

 

[regent]

Maybe FDR's recognition of the USSR was in answer to Republican appeals? Senator Borah made an impassioned speech in 1931 that we recognize the USSR.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Maybe FDR's recognition of the USSR was in answer to Republican appeals? Senator Borah made an impassioned speech in 1931 that we recognize the USSR.

You probably didn't know this...but four previous Presidents had the understanding not to recognize the murderous regime.

Know how many were Republicans?



You sure are running as fast as you can from an obvious reason why Roosevelt did what he did.


Hint....he embraced Soviet spies in his administration....
...and jumped to acknowledge every demand Stalin made....
as documented in this thread.



And....did you see this:

"Dem Congressman: ‘We’ve Proved That Communism Works’"
Dem Congressman: 'We've Proved That Communism Works' | The Daily Caller





Yet folks like you still deny they've been manipulated and co-opted.

 

[editec]

Who the hell is "History Butt"?

Does this opponent exist in the real world or is this another straw man debate?

 

[JakeStarkey]

PC and her defense reminds me of many of the priest fascists within the Pius XI primacy and his ultimate failure in his attempt for a successful interaction with Il Duce.

The Pope and Mussolini The Secret History of Pius XI and the Rise of Fascism in Europe By David I. Kertzer
The Pope and Mussolini summary and reviews

They shared a distrust of democracy and a visceral hatred of Communism. Both were prone to sudden fits of temper and were fiercely protective of the prerogatives of their office. ("We have many interests to protect," the Pope declared, soon after Mussolini seized control of the government in 1922.) Each relied on the other to consolidate his power and achieve his political goals.

In a challenge to the conventional history of this period, in which a heroic Church does battle with the Fascist regime, Kertzer shows how Pius XI played a crucial role in making Mussolini's dictatorship possible and keeping him in power. In exchange for Vatican support, Mussolini restored many of the privileges the Church had lost and gave in to the pope's demands that the police enforce Catholic morality. Yet in the last years of his life - as the Italian dictator grew ever closer to Hitler - the pontiff's faith in this treacherous bargain started to waver. With his health failing, he began to lash out at the Duce and threatened to denounce Mussolini's anti-Semitic racial laws before it was too late. Horrified by the threat to the Church-Fascist alliance, the Vatican's inner circle, including the future Pope Pius XII, struggled to restrain the headstrong pope from destroying a partnership that had served both the Church and the dictator for many years.

"PC and her defense...."

Defense of what, you moron?

Yup, got you, when all you have is a slur and a request that is already fulfilled by what you write above.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Using Chic's reasoning on this thread when the USSR recognized Israel in 1948 it was evidence that Stalin was secretly Jewish or wanted to become Jewish.

This post is almost as stupid as the post just prior to yours......

Almost....

He gets the nod because he has far more experience at being stupid than you do.

Another slur. She is on the run.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Who the hell is "History Butt"?

Does this opponent exist in the real world or is this another straw man debate?

I asked the individual if I might use his name for the original quote in the OP, and he never answered....I took that as a declination.

So....I used 'History Butt' as a dig at his assuming to be a history buff.

Unless he claims his title, you'll have to accept History Butt.

But, read the thread and even you will be able to figure it out.



Now..."another straw man debate"?

Is his another pretense on your part, or are there examples you care to give?

 

[JakeStarkey]

Maybe FDR's recognition of the USSR was in answer to Republican appeals? Senator Borah made an impassioned speech in 1931 that we recognize the USSR.

You probably didn't know this...but four previous Presidents had the understanding not to recognize the murderous regime. Know how many were Republicans? You sure are running as fast as you can from an obvious reason why Roosevelt did what he did. Hint....he embraced Soviet spies in his administration.... ...and jumped to acknowledge every demand Stalin made.... as documented in this thread. ....did you see this: "Dem Congressman: ‘We’ve Proved That Communism Works’"
Dem Congressman: 'We've Proved That Communism Works' | The Daily Caller Yet folks like you still deny they've been manipulated and co-opted.

Read the entire Garcia talk, because the TP idiots have been cherry picking again and took the remark out of context.

Typical McCarthyite tactics: no, FDR did not "embrace soviet spies".
No, he did not willingly embrace all of Stalin's demands.

Accept that PC is a defender of fascism and radical religious doctrine that threatens the well being of America.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Using Chic's reasoning on this thread when the USSR recognized Israel in 1948 it was evidence that Stalin was secretly Jewish or wanted to become Jewish.

This post is almost as stupid as the post just prior to yours......

Almost....

He gets the nod because he has far more experience at being stupid than you do.

Another slur. She is on the run.

The imbecile returns.

Let's add that to your earlier well-earned title: sack of sewage.

 

[JakeStarkey]

This post is almost as stupid as the post just prior to yours......

Almost....

He gets the nod because he has far more experience at being stupid than you do.

Another slur. She is on the run.

The imbecile returns. Let's add that to your earlier well-earned title: sack of sewage.

Slurs, typical of a McCarthyite. Her argument has once again been demolished and she is revealed for what she is.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Another slur. She is on the run.

The imbecile returns. Let's add that to your earlier well-earned title: sack of sewage.

Slurs, typical of a McCarthyite. Her argument has once again been demolished and she is revealed for what she is.

Since you are never.....never.....able to compete in the intellectual realm, you simply lie about me....

...as you did earlier, claiming that I supported the Nazis.

Twice I've given you opportunities to support that slander.....
...of course, being a lying sack of sewage, you cannot.


Accept your well-deserved contumely.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Maybe FDR's recognition of the USSR was in answer to Republican appeals? Senator Borah made an impassioned speech in 1931 that we recognize the USSR.

May 22nd, 1977

Democrat President Jimmy Carter gave a speech exhorting Americans to abandon their “inordinate fear of Communism.”


You followed his advice, huh?

 

[regent]

Maybe FDR's recognition of the USSR was in answer to Republican appeals? Senator Borah made an impassioned speech in 1931 that we recognize the USSR.

You probably didn't know this...but four previous Presidents had the understanding not to recognize the murderous regime.

Know how many were Republicans?



You sure are running as fast as you can from an obvious reason why Roosevelt did what he did.


Hint....he embraced Soviet spies in his administration....
...and jumped to acknowledge every demand Stalin made....
as documented in this thread.



And....did you see this:

"Dem Congressman: ‘We’ve Proved That Communism Works’"
Dem Congressman: 'We've Proved That Communism Works' | The Daily Caller





Yet folks like you still deny they've been manipulated and co-opted.

So four presidents decided that if we didn't recognize the largest nation on this planet it would simply go away, but it didn't. And what does recognition mean, that you're a good little nation, that we approve of you; we won't spy on you; we will trade with you; or that you exist. What?
Great Britain began relations with the USSR in 1921, Germany and Russia signed a pact in 1923, and in 1922 the US responded to a USSR famine by sending 60 million in aid. But it was American capitalists that engaged the USSR in trade, long before FDR's recognition and by 1930 the US and USSR trade had doubled since 1914.
FDR recognized the reality of the world at that time as did Jefferson in his time.
So what does "Recognition" mean?

 

[PoliticalChic]

Maybe FDR's recognition of the USSR was in answer to Republican appeals? Senator Borah made an impassioned speech in 1931 that we recognize the USSR.

You probably didn't know this...but four previous Presidents had the understanding not to recognize the murderous regime.

Know how many were Republicans?



You sure are running as fast as you can from an obvious reason why Roosevelt did what he did.


Hint....he embraced Soviet spies in his administration....
...and jumped to acknowledge every demand Stalin made....
as documented in this thread.



And....did you see this:

"Dem Congressman: ‘We’ve Proved That Communism Works’"
Dem Congressman: 'We've Proved That Communism Works' | The Daily Caller





Yet folks like you still deny they've been manipulated and co-opted.

So four presidents decided that if we didn't recognize the largest nation on this planet it would simply go away, but it didn't. And what does recognition mean, that you're a good little nation, that we approve of you; we won't spy on you; we will trade with you; or that you exist. What?
Great Britain began relations with the USSR in 1921, Germany and Russia signed a pact in 1923, and in 1922 the US responded to a USSR famine by sending 60 million in aid. But it was American capitalists that engaged the USSR in trade, long before FDR's recognition and by 1930 the US and USSR trade had doubled since 1914.
FDR recognized the reality of the world at that time as did Jefferson in his time.
So what does "Recognition" mean?

"So four presidents decided that if we didn't recognize the largest nation on this planet it would simply go away, but it didn't."


It didn't because of the reasons, the truths, provided in this thread.

The Democrat President of the United States saw to it that it was propped and made to survive.


There is no reason to believe otherwise without the service that Roosevelt provided.




And....not just the USSR.

The same is true of People's Republic of China.



How many millions would have survived if not for FDR's foreign policies?

 

[Camp]

Who the hell is "History Butt"?

Does this opponent exist in the real world or is this another straw man debate?[/SIZE]

Anti-Fascist from Krypton

 

[regent]

You probably didn't know this...but four previous Presidents had the understanding not to recognize the murderous regime.

Know how many were Republicans?



You sure are running as fast as you can from an obvious reason why Roosevelt did what he did.


Hint....he embraced Soviet spies in his administration....
...and jumped to acknowledge every demand Stalin made....
as documented in this thread.



And....did you see this:

"Dem Congressman: ‘We’ve Proved That Communism Works’"
Dem Congressman: 'We've Proved That Communism Works' | The Daily Caller





Yet folks like you still deny they've been manipulated and co-opted.

So four presidents decided that if we didn't recognize the largest nation on this planet it would simply go away, but it didn't. And what does recognition mean, that you're a good little nation, that we approve of you; we won't spy on you; we will trade with you; or that you exist. What?
Great Britain began relations with the USSR in 1921, Germany and Russia signed a pact in 1923, and in 1922 the US responded to a USSR famine by sending 60 million in aid. But it was American capitalists that engaged the USSR in trade, long before FDR's recognition and by 1930 the US and USSR trade had doubled since 1914.
FDR recognized the reality of the world at that time as did Jefferson in his time.
So what does "Recognition" mean?

"So four presidents decided that if we didn't recognize the largest nation on this planet it would simply go away, but it didn't."


It didn't because of the reasons, the truths, provided in this thread.

The Democrat President of the United States saw to it that it was propped and made to survive.


There is no reason to believe otherwise without the service that Roosevelt provided.




And....not just the USSR.

The same is true of People's Republic of China.



How many millions would have survived if not for FDR's foreign policies?

So the Soviet Union could not have survived if FDR had followed the truths you provided on these boards. So you are holding to the concept that if the US does not provide recognition a nation cannot survive? Do all nations have that power, or only the US, or only FDR?

 

[PoliticalChic]

Who the hell is "History Butt"?

Does this opponent exist in the real world or is this another straw man debate?[/SIZE]

Anti-Fascist from Krypton

You mean Pro-Rooseveltian from Glubbdubdrib.

Hence your magical thinking.

Try reality.

 

[PoliticalChic]

So four presidents decided that if we didn't recognize the largest nation on this planet it would simply go away, but it didn't. And what does recognition mean, that you're a good little nation, that we approve of you; we won't spy on you; we will trade with you; or that you exist. What?
Great Britain began relations with the USSR in 1921, Germany and Russia signed a pact in 1923, and in 1922 the US responded to a USSR famine by sending 60 million in aid. But it was American capitalists that engaged the USSR in trade, long before FDR's recognition and by 1930 the US and USSR trade had doubled since 1914.
FDR recognized the reality of the world at that time as did Jefferson in his time.
So what does "Recognition" mean?

"So four presidents decided that if we didn't recognize the largest nation on this planet it would simply go away, but it didn't."


It didn't because of the reasons, the truths, provided in this thread.

The Democrat President of the United States saw to it that it was propped and made to survive.


There is no reason to believe otherwise without the service that Roosevelt provided.




And....not just the USSR.

The same is true of People's Republic of China.



How many millions would have survived if not for FDR's foreign policies?

So the Soviet Union could not have survived if FDR had followed the truths you provided on these boards. So you are holding to the concept that if the US does not provide recognition a nation cannot survive? Do all nations have that power, or only the US, or only FDR?

FDR endorsed and supported a regime that slaughtered millions and advanced the idea of the same slaughter throughout the world to bring about global communism.

You don't deny that, do you?


Further, aren't you guys the ones who claimed that Stalin need Lend-Lease and a 'second front' to survive?


We should have allowed both tyrants to defeat each other.

 

[regent]

Yeah we promised Stalin a second front in 42 and 43, but we let him continue his battle as long as it didn't look like he would fold as Russia did in the first WW. We were the coat holders and Stalin must have had some reaction to our un-kept 2nd front promises.
So what should America have done about the USSR's internal conflicts? We had enough of our own during the entire conflict including cleaning up the Hoover-Republican depression than to invade the USSR to make Stalin behave as conservatives have figured out some 70 years later.