The Big Lie

[Correll]

We will have to settle for the audits.

Unconstitutional.

What is unconstitutional about using evidence and information from an audit? Unconstitutional to expose fraud?

For an audit to have any validity whatsoever, it has to be conducted pursuant to established procedures. These clowns are simply destroying the ballots.

ou said that the "means by which the rabid right" got it's information was not effected.

I agreed with the point, though I dropped your partisan spin.

I went on to make a point that my original concern was more about the more moderate voters.


That was not a "backhanded insult". That was my conceding your point. There was no insult at all.

"might have learned to ignore the propaganda spouted by people like you"

Then you besmirch and sow mistrust of my fellow Americans and try to instill faithlessness in our democratic elections with:

"they are not an informed electorate, but a MISINFORMED electorate."

"And the election is thus not legitimate."

I completely disagree.

DO you believe that President Trump said that ws were "very fine people"?

I don't have to believe what he said, we have recordings.

Reporter: "Mr. President, are you putting what you’re calling the alt-left and white supremacists on the same moral plane?"

Trump: "I’m not putting anybody on a moral plane. What I’m saying is this: You had a group on one side and you had a group on the other, and they came at each other with clubs -- and it was vicious and it was horrible. And it was a horrible thing to watch.

"But there is another side. There was a group on this side. You can call them the left -- you just called them the left -- that came violently attacking the other group. So you can say what you want, but that’s the way it is.

Reporter: (Inaudible) "… both sides, sir. You said there was hatred, there was violence on both sides. Are the --"

Trump: "Yes, I think there’s blame on both sides. If you look at both sides -- I think there’s blame on both sides. And I have no doubt about it, and you don’t have any doubt about it either. And if you reported it accurately, you would say."

Reporter: "The neo-Nazis started this. They showed up in Charlottesville to protest --"

Trump: "Excuse me, excuse me. They didn’t put themselves -- and you had some very bad people in that group, but you also had people that were very fine people, on both sides. You had people in that group. Excuse me, excuse me. I saw the same pictures as you did. You had people in that group that were there to protest the taking down of, to them, a very, very important statue and the renaming of a park from Robert E. Lee to another name."

Reporter: "George Washington and Robert E. Lee are not the same."

Trump: "George Washington was a slave owner........"

In Context: Trump’s ‘very fine people on both sides’ remarks

On Aug. 15, 2017, President Donald Trump held a press conference to discuss an executive order he had signed on infrastr

www.politifact.com

And thank you for proving my point that you people are the ones pushing propaganda and lies.

That you can stand by that lie, after it has been so repeatedly and completely debunked, shows that you are beyond saving.

That you people SUCCESSFULLY pushed that lie, and made it stick, is incredible.

That the American voters, as a group, were SUCCESSFULLY LIED TO THAT THE US PRESIDENT WAS SYMPATHETIC TO WHITE SUPREMACISTS, MAKES THE ELECTORATE MISINFORMED AND THE ELECTION ILLEGETIMATE.

And there's that "gotcha" moment you were going for.

But it's not working out like you've planned. You're proving how brainwashed you truly are. You're so desperate to find some lie to hang on the left so you can ignore all of the truth you're being told because one thing is a lie.

You're simply parroting the spin that the billionaire right wing media has given you about Trump's comments. Yes, he really did say "good people on both sides". There is absolutely no debunking of his statement, except by FOX News lying to you and telling you he never said it.

And if you're prepared to discard what the let is telling you over one purported lie, why don't you discard everything Trump told you because HE lied to you relentlessly? Why don't you discard what FOX News tells you because they lie to you so relentlessly.

Why do you try to push for someone on the left to say something you can call a "lie" and in order to permanently discredit that individual, while accepting the relentless lying from Trump and FOX News?

Your need to characterize my actions as having anything to do with "Fox" or Trump is.... you not getting me at all.


My point stands. The "very fine people" lie has been completely and utterly debunked over and over again.


Yet you people, managed to make it stick. Moderate votes, and minority voters who might have voted for Trump based on a number of factors, were told over and over again, by their news sources, that Trump was, at best, sympathetic to ws.

That is, imo, FRAUD BY DECEPTION, and thus the election was not "free and fair" and thus not legitimate.


AND, that is only HALF of the problem. The other half is the various tools of intimidation, from literal to figurative mobs.

Wait...this is a new tact for the Trumplicans I think. Donald Trump, the biggest liar in the history of United States presidents, allegedly lost because you perceive people lied about what he said in Charlottesville? All they did was play tape of him

Really scraping the bottom of the barrel for excuses now.

That you are shocked that I engaged in independent thought, is very revealing about how you personally operate.

My point stands. Fraud by Deception.

And the point is not, "why he lost", but that the election was not legitimate.


Indeed, as long as you people continue your propaganda, no election will be.

 

[sealybobo]

We will have to settle for the audits.

Unconstitutional.

What is unconstitutional about using evidence and information from an audit? Unconstitutional to expose fraud?

For an audit to have any validity whatsoever, it has to be conducted pursuant to established procedures. These clowns are simply destroying the ballots.

ou said that the "means by which the rabid right" got it's information was not effected.

I agreed with the point, though I dropped your partisan spin.

I went on to make a point that my original concern was more about the more moderate voters.


That was not a "backhanded insult". That was my conceding your point. There was no insult at all.

"might have learned to ignore the propaganda spouted by people like you"

Then you besmirch and sow mistrust of my fellow Americans and try to instill faithlessness in our democratic elections with:

"they are not an informed electorate, but a MISINFORMED electorate."

"And the election is thus not legitimate."

I completely disagree.

DO you believe that President Trump said that ws were "very fine people"?

I don't have to believe what he said, we have recordings.

Reporter: "Mr. President, are you putting what you’re calling the alt-left and white supremacists on the same moral plane?"

Trump: "I’m not putting anybody on a moral plane. What I’m saying is this: You had a group on one side and you had a group on the other, and they came at each other with clubs -- and it was vicious and it was horrible. And it was a horrible thing to watch.

"But there is another side. There was a group on this side. You can call them the left -- you just called them the left -- that came violently attacking the other group. So you can say what you want, but that’s the way it is.

Reporter: (Inaudible) "… both sides, sir. You said there was hatred, there was violence on both sides. Are the --"

Trump: "Yes, I think there’s blame on both sides. If you look at both sides -- I think there’s blame on both sides. And I have no doubt about it, and you don’t have any doubt about it either. And if you reported it accurately, you would say."

Reporter: "The neo-Nazis started this. They showed up in Charlottesville to protest --"

Trump: "Excuse me, excuse me. They didn’t put themselves -- and you had some very bad people in that group, but you also had people that were very fine people, on both sides. You had people in that group. Excuse me, excuse me. I saw the same pictures as you did. You had people in that group that were there to protest the taking down of, to them, a very, very important statue and the renaming of a park from Robert E. Lee to another name."

Reporter: "George Washington and Robert E. Lee are not the same."

Trump: "George Washington was a slave owner........"

In Context: Trump’s ‘very fine people on both sides’ remarks

On Aug. 15, 2017, President Donald Trump held a press conference to discuss an executive order he had signed on infrastr

www.politifact.com

And thank you for proving my point that you people are the ones pushing propaganda and lies.

That you can stand by that lie, after it has been so repeatedly and completely debunked, shows that you are beyond saving.

That you people SUCCESSFULLY pushed that lie, and made it stick, is incredible.

That the American voters, as a group, were SUCCESSFULLY LIED TO THAT THE US PRESIDENT WAS SYMPATHETIC TO WHITE SUPREMACISTS, MAKES THE ELECTORATE MISINFORMED AND THE ELECTION ILLEGETIMATE.

And there's that "gotcha" moment you were going for.

But it's not working out like you've planned. You're proving how brainwashed you truly are. You're so desperate to find some lie to hang on the left so you can ignore all of the truth you're being told because one thing is a lie.

You're simply parroting the spin that the billionaire right wing media has given you about Trump's comments. Yes, he really did say "good people on both sides". There is absolutely no debunking of his statement, except by FOX News lying to you and telling you he never said it.

And if you're prepared to discard what the let is telling you over one purported lie, why don't you discard everything Trump told you because HE lied to you relentlessly? Why don't you discard what FOX News tells you because they lie to you so relentlessly.

Why do you try to push for someone on the left to say something you can call a "lie" and in order to permanently discredit that individual, while accepting the relentless lying from Trump and FOX News?

Your need to characterize my actions as having anything to do with "Fox" or Trump is.... you not getting me at all.


My point stands. The "very fine people" lie has been completely and utterly debunked over and over again.


Yet you people, managed to make it stick. Moderate votes, and minority voters who might have voted for Trump based on a number of factors, were told over and over again, by their news sources, that Trump was, at best, sympathetic to ws.

That is, imo, FRAUD BY DECEPTION, and thus the election was not "free and fair" and thus not legitimate.


AND, that is only HALF of the problem. The other half is the various tools of intimidation, from literal to figurative mobs.

Wait...this is a new tact for the Trumplicans I think. Donald Trump, the biggest liar in the history of United States presidents, allegedly lost because you perceive people lied about what he said in Charlottesville? All they did was play tape of him

Really scraping the bottom of the barrel for excuses now.

That you are shocked that I engaged in independent thought, is very revealing about how you personally operate.

My point stands. Fraud by Deception.

And the point is not, "why he lost", but that the election was not legitimate.


Indeed, as long as you people continue your propaganda, no election will be.

You can't be taken seriously if you think the last election was rigged. Georgia was rigged? Really? The Republican governor screwed him?

And you don't find it perplexing that Trump called the governor up and demanded he manufacture 200,000 votes so Trump could steal the state?

 

[Seawytch]

We will have to settle for the audits.

Unconstitutional.

What is unconstitutional about using evidence and information from an audit? Unconstitutional to expose fraud?

For an audit to have any validity whatsoever, it has to be conducted pursuant to established procedures. These clowns are simply destroying the ballots.

ou said that the "means by which the rabid right" got it's information was not effected.

I agreed with the point, though I dropped your partisan spin.

I went on to make a point that my original concern was more about the more moderate voters.


That was not a "backhanded insult". That was my conceding your point. There was no insult at all.

"might have learned to ignore the propaganda spouted by people like you"

Then you besmirch and sow mistrust of my fellow Americans and try to instill faithlessness in our democratic elections with:

"they are not an informed electorate, but a MISINFORMED electorate."

"And the election is thus not legitimate."

I completely disagree.

DO you believe that President Trump said that ws were "very fine people"?

I don't have to believe what he said, we have recordings.

Reporter: "Mr. President, are you putting what you’re calling the alt-left and white supremacists on the same moral plane?"

Trump: "I’m not putting anybody on a moral plane. What I’m saying is this: You had a group on one side and you had a group on the other, and they came at each other with clubs -- and it was vicious and it was horrible. And it was a horrible thing to watch.

"But there is another side. There was a group on this side. You can call them the left -- you just called them the left -- that came violently attacking the other group. So you can say what you want, but that’s the way it is.

Reporter: (Inaudible) "… both sides, sir. You said there was hatred, there was violence on both sides. Are the --"

Trump: "Yes, I think there’s blame on both sides. If you look at both sides -- I think there’s blame on both sides. And I have no doubt about it, and you don’t have any doubt about it either. And if you reported it accurately, you would say."

Reporter: "The neo-Nazis started this. They showed up in Charlottesville to protest --"

Trump: "Excuse me, excuse me. They didn’t put themselves -- and you had some very bad people in that group, but you also had people that were very fine people, on both sides. You had people in that group. Excuse me, excuse me. I saw the same pictures as you did. You had people in that group that were there to protest the taking down of, to them, a very, very important statue and the renaming of a park from Robert E. Lee to another name."

Reporter: "George Washington and Robert E. Lee are not the same."

Trump: "George Washington was a slave owner........"

In Context: Trump’s ‘very fine people on both sides’ remarks

On Aug. 15, 2017, President Donald Trump held a press conference to discuss an executive order he had signed on infrastr

www.politifact.com

And thank you for proving my point that you people are the ones pushing propaganda and lies.

That you can stand by that lie, after it has been so repeatedly and completely debunked, shows that you are beyond saving.

That you people SUCCESSFULLY pushed that lie, and made it stick, is incredible.

That the American voters, as a group, were SUCCESSFULLY LIED TO THAT THE US PRESIDENT WAS SYMPATHETIC TO WHITE SUPREMACISTS, MAKES THE ELECTORATE MISINFORMED AND THE ELECTION ILLEGETIMATE.

And there's that "gotcha" moment you were going for.

But it's not working out like you've planned. You're proving how brainwashed you truly are. You're so desperate to find some lie to hang on the left so you can ignore all of the truth you're being told because one thing is a lie.

You're simply parroting the spin that the billionaire right wing media has given you about Trump's comments. Yes, he really did say "good people on both sides". There is absolutely no debunking of his statement, except by FOX News lying to you and telling you he never said it.

And if you're prepared to discard what the let is telling you over one purported lie, why don't you discard everything Trump told you because HE lied to you relentlessly? Why don't you discard what FOX News tells you because they lie to you so relentlessly.

Why do you try to push for someone on the left to say something you can call a "lie" and in order to permanently discredit that individual, while accepting the relentless lying from Trump and FOX News?

Your need to characterize my actions as having anything to do with "Fox" or Trump is.... you not getting me at all.


My point stands. The "very fine people" lie has been completely and utterly debunked over and over again.


Yet you people, managed to make it stick. Moderate votes, and minority voters who might have voted for Trump based on a number of factors, were told over and over again, by their news sources, that Trump was, at best, sympathetic to ws.

That is, imo, FRAUD BY DECEPTION, and thus the election was not "free and fair" and thus not legitimate.


AND, that is only HALF of the problem. The other half is the various tools of intimidation, from literal to figurative mobs.

Wait...this is a new tact for the Trumplicans I think. Donald Trump, the biggest liar in the history of United States presidents, allegedly lost because you perceive people lied about what he said in Charlottesville? All they did was play tape of him

Really scraping the bottom of the barrel for excuses now.

That you are shocked that I engaged in independent thought, is very revealing about how you personally operate.

My point stands. Fraud by Deception.

And the point is not, "why he lost", but that the election was not legitimate.


Indeed, as long as you people continue your propaganda, no election will be.

The election was legitimate...just like the election in 2016 where Trump and his supporters told so many unbelievable lies about Hillary Clinton that fact checkers burned out from trying to keep up. You’re getting increasingly ridiculous.

 

[Correll]

This is not a conspiracy. These are things that have happened. THAT MAKES THEM FACTS.

Pollak: The Real 'Big Lie' Is That the 2020 Election Was Free and Fair

The real "Big Lie" is that the 2020 election was free and fair, when it was marred by rule changes, censorship, and political violence.

www.breitbart.com

At the same time, I noted, the 2020 presidential election violated internationally accepted criteria for a free and fair election. “Voters were denied the ‘absolute’ right to a secret ballot [through flawed vote-by-mail systems]. They were denied ‘equal opportunity of access to the media, particularly the mass communications media, in order to put forward their political views.’ They were denied ‘security with respect to their lives and property.’ And they were denied “freedom of movement, assembly, association and expression.’

Someone tell me that did not happen.

Maybe we should bring back the fairness doctrine.

We should not do what Democrats did after 2016, and spend four years chasing conspiracy theories.

In 2016 Trump claimed that 3-5 million illegals vote, That too was a lie.

How many was it?

Trump ordered a commission to find the evidence.. The commission was disbanded for lack of evidence.

So, you don't know?

Trump has been claiming elections are rigged for years. He's been claiming since the 1970s that the system is rigged against him. LOLOL Why on earth would you believe anything he says?

you made a claim that a certain number was a lie. To make that claim, you have to have some idea what the real number was.


So, what was it?

Or have you just been talking shit?

The "real" number is significantly lower. In 15 years working at a California registrars office I have had exactly two non citizens that voted. One was a young dreamer who was not aware of their immigration status another was a Canadian on a visa. There is not a pandemic of non citizens voting.

Are you seriously claiming, that a former real estate tycoon, does not have a firm grasp of the information and experiences that the staff of a registrars office has?

Seriously?!!

Regarding election fraud? Um, yeah.

Shocking. Absolutely shocking.

Well, thanks for bring this to my attention. This will loom large in my mind, if Trump runs again.

 

[sealybobo]

We will have to settle for the audits.

Unconstitutional.

What is unconstitutional about using evidence and information from an audit? Unconstitutional to expose fraud?

For an audit to have any validity whatsoever, it has to be conducted pursuant to established procedures. These clowns are simply destroying the ballots.

ou said that the "means by which the rabid right" got it's information was not effected.

I agreed with the point, though I dropped your partisan spin.

I went on to make a point that my original concern was more about the more moderate voters.


That was not a "backhanded insult". That was my conceding your point. There was no insult at all.

"might have learned to ignore the propaganda spouted by people like you"

Then you besmirch and sow mistrust of my fellow Americans and try to instill faithlessness in our democratic elections with:

"they are not an informed electorate, but a MISINFORMED electorate."

"And the election is thus not legitimate."

I completely disagree.

DO you believe that President Trump said that ws were "very fine people"?

I don't have to believe what he said, we have recordings.

Reporter: "Mr. President, are you putting what you’re calling the alt-left and white supremacists on the same moral plane?"

Trump: "I’m not putting anybody on a moral plane. What I’m saying is this: You had a group on one side and you had a group on the other, and they came at each other with clubs -- and it was vicious and it was horrible. And it was a horrible thing to watch.

"But there is another side. There was a group on this side. You can call them the left -- you just called them the left -- that came violently attacking the other group. So you can say what you want, but that’s the way it is.

Reporter: (Inaudible) "… both sides, sir. You said there was hatred, there was violence on both sides. Are the --"

Trump: "Yes, I think there’s blame on both sides. If you look at both sides -- I think there’s blame on both sides. And I have no doubt about it, and you don’t have any doubt about it either. And if you reported it accurately, you would say."

Reporter: "The neo-Nazis started this. They showed up in Charlottesville to protest --"

Trump: "Excuse me, excuse me. They didn’t put themselves -- and you had some very bad people in that group, but you also had people that were very fine people, on both sides. You had people in that group. Excuse me, excuse me. I saw the same pictures as you did. You had people in that group that were there to protest the taking down of, to them, a very, very important statue and the renaming of a park from Robert E. Lee to another name."

Reporter: "George Washington and Robert E. Lee are not the same."

Trump: "George Washington was a slave owner........"

In Context: Trump’s ‘very fine people on both sides’ remarks

On Aug. 15, 2017, President Donald Trump held a press conference to discuss an executive order he had signed on infrastr

www.politifact.com

And thank you for proving my point that you people are the ones pushing propaganda and lies.

That you can stand by that lie, after it has been so repeatedly and completely debunked, shows that you are beyond saving.

That you people SUCCESSFULLY pushed that lie, and made it stick, is incredible.

That the American voters, as a group, were SUCCESSFULLY LIED TO THAT THE US PRESIDENT WAS SYMPATHETIC TO WHITE SUPREMACISTS, MAKES THE ELECTORATE MISINFORMED AND THE ELECTION ILLEGETIMATE.

And there's that "gotcha" moment you were going for.

But it's not working out like you've planned. You're proving how brainwashed you truly are. You're so desperate to find some lie to hang on the left so you can ignore all of the truth you're being told because one thing is a lie.

You're simply parroting the spin that the billionaire right wing media has given you about Trump's comments. Yes, he really did say "good people on both sides". There is absolutely no debunking of his statement, except by FOX News lying to you and telling you he never said it.

And if you're prepared to discard what the let is telling you over one purported lie, why don't you discard everything Trump told you because HE lied to you relentlessly? Why don't you discard what FOX News tells you because they lie to you so relentlessly.

Why do you try to push for someone on the left to say something you can call a "lie" and in order to permanently discredit that individual, while accepting the relentless lying from Trump and FOX News?

Your need to characterize my actions as having anything to do with "Fox" or Trump is.... you not getting me at all.


My point stands. The "very fine people" lie has been completely and utterly debunked over and over again.


Yet you people, managed to make it stick. Moderate votes, and minority voters who might have voted for Trump based on a number of factors, were told over and over again, by their news sources, that Trump was, at best, sympathetic to ws.

That is, imo, FRAUD BY DECEPTION, and thus the election was not "free and fair" and thus not legitimate.


AND, that is only HALF of the problem. The other half is the various tools of intimidation, from literal to figurative mobs.

Wait...this is a new tact for the Trumplicans I think. Donald Trump, the biggest liar in the history of United States presidents, allegedly lost because you perceive people lied about what he said in Charlottesville? All they did was play tape of him

Really scraping the bottom of the barrel for excuses now.

That you are shocked that I engaged in independent thought, is very revealing about how you personally operate.

My point stands. Fraud by Deception.

And the point is not, "why he lost", but that the election was not legitimate.


Indeed, as long as you people continue your propaganda, no election will be.

Maybe if like in 2000 it was all up to 1 state like Florida MAYBE Trump could have stolen this one like Bush did but he had to steal 5 states. That wasn't going to happen. Like MAYBE he could have stopped all the Detroit votes from being counted and then he could have stolen MI but then he'd still have 4 other states to steal.

You're a joke.

 

[Dragonlady]

Libertarian. That is singular.

And it's unclear how dblack is a libertarian, that's why I asked him.

And I answered. You're not listening. As far as you're concerned - I'm not a libertarian. Clear?

You said you don't call yourself a libertarian. I asked what your views are. Just asking for a summary. Saying you don't call yourself a libertarian anymore doesn't answer that, no

A libertarian is just a spin off of Republican. Small government, less taxes, less regulations, less socialism like they would do away with public schools and social security/medicare.

I could go on and on but bottom line is they are Republicans.

I'm not a Democrat I'm a Curfuffle. I'm pro choice, believe in global warming, like public schools and unions, etc....but I don't like Democrats border policies so now I'm a Curfuffle. Not a Democrat. LOL

I think you might be underestimating the number of libertarians who are motivated by opposition to cultural or social norms.

Quite a lot of drug legalization types. Ann Coulter ran into some of that, when there was some discussion of having her run on a Libertarian ticket.

Yea that's a great example of how libertarians are just like Republicans only they are for legalizing pot. sorry that's not enough to make me like their mostly Republican/conservative policies.

Ann Coulter is a horrible person. Ever see her get roasted on Comedy Central? Funny shit. They tore her apart.

IF the Libertarians were just like republicans like you claim, they would have been happy with Ann. The plan feel apart.

That roast? That was your people revealing themselves to be animals. Yes. They did tear her apart. Wow. What an accomplishment. A bunch of people get together and insult the shit out of a woman who is massively outnumbered.

And you consider that something to be proud of?

Once again, you reveal your ignorance of American cultural norms. Do you not understand what a "roast" is??? It's where a group of people get together and tear apart one of their friends. It's an American tradition. The more vicious your assault on the "honoree", the bigger the applause.

You keep claiming to be an American and that you live in the USA, and yet you keep getting tripped up by American cultural idioms, like "If you can't do the time, then don't do the crime". Not to mention your continual promotion of lies, bullshit and all things Trump.

 

[sealybobo]

This is not a conspiracy. These are things that have happened. THAT MAKES THEM FACTS.

Pollak: The Real 'Big Lie' Is That the 2020 Election Was Free and Fair

The real "Big Lie" is that the 2020 election was free and fair, when it was marred by rule changes, censorship, and political violence.

www.breitbart.com

At the same time, I noted, the 2020 presidential election violated internationally accepted criteria for a free and fair election. “Voters were denied the ‘absolute’ right to a secret ballot [through flawed vote-by-mail systems]. They were denied ‘equal opportunity of access to the media, particularly the mass communications media, in order to put forward their political views.’ They were denied ‘security with respect to their lives and property.’ And they were denied “freedom of movement, assembly, association and expression.’

Someone tell me that did not happen.

Maybe we should bring back the fairness doctrine.

We should not do what Democrats did after 2016, and spend four years chasing conspiracy theories.

In 2016 Trump claimed that 3-5 million illegals vote, That too was a lie.

How many was it?

Trump ordered a commission to find the evidence.. The commission was disbanded for lack of evidence.

So, you don't know?

Trump has been claiming elections are rigged for years. He's been claiming since the 1970s that the system is rigged against him. LOLOL Why on earth would you believe anything he says?

you made a claim that a certain number was a lie. To make that claim, you have to have some idea what the real number was.


So, what was it?

Or have you just been talking shit?

The "real" number is significantly lower. In 15 years working at a California registrars office I have had exactly two non citizens that voted. One was a young dreamer who was not aware of their immigration status another was a Canadian on a visa. There is not a pandemic of non citizens voting.

Are you seriously claiming, that a former real estate tycoon, does not have a firm grasp of the information and experiences that the staff of a registrars office has?

Seriously?!!

Regarding election fraud? Um, yeah.

Shocking. Absolutely shocking.

Well, thanks for bring this to my attention. This will loom large in my mind, if Trump runs again.

Why would he run again? We will just steal it from him again. If he was so dangerous that Democrats and Deep State Republicans sabotaged him in 2020 why wouldn't we do it again in 2024?

Why don't you run someone else? And if they lose will you say we stole it again?

OMG I wish I could remember who told me they illegally voted. It was a Republican friend of mine and I can't remember who it was. But like I've said before, Republicans know voter fraud exists because they commit it. If not how else would they know it's possible? Remember election fraud and voter fraud are two different things. Voter fraud doesn't add up to much but election fraud does. Florida 2000 was election fraud. Hanging chads, butterfly ballots, rioting to stop the recount, disinfranchising minority voters by purging them from the lists, hacked Diebold voting machines.

I don't recall Republicans minding in 2000 that elections fraud occurred.

 

[Correll]

We will have to settle for the audits.

Unconstitutional.

What is unconstitutional about using evidence and information from an audit? Unconstitutional to expose fraud?

For an audit to have any validity whatsoever, it has to be conducted pursuant to established procedures. These clowns are simply destroying the ballots.

ou said that the "means by which the rabid right" got it's information was not effected.

I agreed with the point, though I dropped your partisan spin.

I went on to make a point that my original concern was more about the more moderate voters.


That was not a "backhanded insult". That was my conceding your point. There was no insult at all.

"might have learned to ignore the propaganda spouted by people like you"

Then you besmirch and sow mistrust of my fellow Americans and try to instill faithlessness in our democratic elections with:

"they are not an informed electorate, but a MISINFORMED electorate."

"And the election is thus not legitimate."

I completely disagree.

DO you believe that President Trump said that ws were "very fine people"?

I don't have to believe what he said, we have recordings.

Reporter: "Mr. President, are you putting what you’re calling the alt-left and white supremacists on the same moral plane?"

Trump: "I’m not putting anybody on a moral plane. What I’m saying is this: You had a group on one side and you had a group on the other, and they came at each other with clubs -- and it was vicious and it was horrible. And it was a horrible thing to watch.

"But there is another side. There was a group on this side. You can call them the left -- you just called them the left -- that came violently attacking the other group. So you can say what you want, but that’s the way it is.

Reporter: (Inaudible) "… both sides, sir. You said there was hatred, there was violence on both sides. Are the --"

Trump: "Yes, I think there’s blame on both sides. If you look at both sides -- I think there’s blame on both sides. And I have no doubt about it, and you don’t have any doubt about it either. And if you reported it accurately, you would say."

Reporter: "The neo-Nazis started this. They showed up in Charlottesville to protest --"

Trump: "Excuse me, excuse me. They didn’t put themselves -- and you had some very bad people in that group, but you also had people that were very fine people, on both sides. You had people in that group. Excuse me, excuse me. I saw the same pictures as you did. You had people in that group that were there to protest the taking down of, to them, a very, very important statue and the renaming of a park from Robert E. Lee to another name."

Reporter: "George Washington and Robert E. Lee are not the same."

Trump: "George Washington was a slave owner........"

In Context: Trump’s ‘very fine people on both sides’ remarks

On Aug. 15, 2017, President Donald Trump held a press conference to discuss an executive order he had signed on infrastr

www.politifact.com

And thank you for proving my point that you people are the ones pushing propaganda and lies.

That you can stand by that lie, after it has been so repeatedly and completely debunked, shows that you are beyond saving.

That you people SUCCESSFULLY pushed that lie, and made it stick, is incredible.

That the American voters, as a group, were SUCCESSFULLY LIED TO THAT THE US PRESIDENT WAS SYMPATHETIC TO WHITE SUPREMACISTS, MAKES THE ELECTORATE MISINFORMED AND THE ELECTION ILLEGETIMATE.

And there's that "gotcha" moment you were going for.

But it's not working out like you've planned. You're proving how brainwashed you truly are. You're so desperate to find some lie to hang on the left so you can ignore all of the truth you're being told because one thing is a lie.

You're simply parroting the spin that the billionaire right wing media has given you about Trump's comments. Yes, he really did say "good people on both sides". There is absolutely no debunking of his statement, except by FOX News lying to you and telling you he never said it.

And if you're prepared to discard what the let is telling you over one purported lie, why don't you discard everything Trump told you because HE lied to you relentlessly? Why don't you discard what FOX News tells you because they lie to you so relentlessly.

Why do you try to push for someone on the left to say something you can call a "lie" and in order to permanently discredit that individual, while accepting the relentless lying from Trump and FOX News?

Your need to characterize my actions as having anything to do with "Fox" or Trump is.... you not getting me at all.


My point stands. The "very fine people" lie has been completely and utterly debunked over and over again.


Yet you people, managed to make it stick. Moderate votes, and minority voters who might have voted for Trump based on a number of factors, were told over and over again, by their news sources, that Trump was, at best, sympathetic to ws.

That is, imo, FRAUD BY DECEPTION, and thus the election was not "free and fair" and thus not legitimate.


AND, that is only HALF of the problem. The other half is the various tools of intimidation, from literal to figurative mobs.

Trump sabotaged his reelection just like he sabotaged his presidency. No amount of lying will fix that or making it someone else's fault.

Your opinion on that is irrelevant to the point I made about the way you people misinformed the voters.

 

[sealybobo]

Libertarian. That is singular.

And it's unclear how dblack is a libertarian, that's why I asked him.

And I answered. You're not listening. As far as you're concerned - I'm not a libertarian. Clear?

You said you don't call yourself a libertarian. I asked what your views are. Just asking for a summary. Saying you don't call yourself a libertarian anymore doesn't answer that, no

A libertarian is just a spin off of Republican. Small government, less taxes, less regulations, less socialism like they would do away with public schools and social security/medicare.

I could go on and on but bottom line is they are Republicans.

I'm not a Democrat I'm a Curfuffle. I'm pro choice, believe in global warming, like public schools and unions, etc....but I don't like Democrats border policies so now I'm a Curfuffle. Not a Democrat. LOL

I think you might be underestimating the number of libertarians who are motivated by opposition to cultural or social norms.

Quite a lot of drug legalization types. Ann Coulter ran into some of that, when there was some discussion of having her run on a Libertarian ticket.

Yea that's a great example of how libertarians are just like Republicans only they are for legalizing pot. sorry that's not enough to make me like their mostly Republican/conservative policies.

Ann Coulter is a horrible person. Ever see her get roasted on Comedy Central? Funny shit. They tore her apart.

IF the Libertarians were just like republicans like you claim, they would have been happy with Ann. The plan feel apart.


That roast? That was your people revealing themselves to be animals. Yes. They did tear her apart. Wow. What an accomplishment. A bunch of people get together and insult the shit out of a woman who is massively outnumbered.


And you consider that something to be proud of?

Yes I am proud because everything horrible they said about her was true. She has balls to show up I'll give her that.

Literally, I think she has balls. Have you seen her adams apple?

 

[sealybobo]

This is not a conspiracy. These are things that have happened. THAT MAKES THEM FACTS.

Pollak: The Real 'Big Lie' Is That the 2020 Election Was Free and Fair

The real "Big Lie" is that the 2020 election was free and fair, when it was marred by rule changes, censorship, and political violence.

www.breitbart.com

At the same time, I noted, the 2020 presidential election violated internationally accepted criteria for a free and fair election. “Voters were denied the ‘absolute’ right to a secret ballot [through flawed vote-by-mail systems]. They were denied ‘equal opportunity of access to the media, particularly the mass communications media, in order to put forward their political views.’ They were denied ‘security with respect to their lives and property.’ And they were denied “freedom of movement, assembly, association and expression.’

Someone tell me that did not happen.

Maybe we should bring back the fairness doctrine.

We should not do what Democrats did after 2016, and spend four years chasing conspiracy theories.

In 2016 Trump claimed that 3-5 million illegals vote, That too was a lie.

How many was it?

Trump ordered a commission to find the evidence.. The commission was disbanded for lack of evidence.

So, you don't know?

Trump has been claiming elections are rigged for years. He's been claiming since the 1970s that the system is rigged against him. LOLOL Why on earth would you believe anything he says?

you made a claim that a certain number was a lie. To make that claim, you have to have some idea what the real number was.


So, what was it?

Or have you just been talking shit?

The "real" number is significantly lower. In 15 years working at a California registrars office I have had exactly two non citizens that voted. One was a young dreamer who was not aware of their immigration status another was a Canadian on a visa. There is not a pandemic of non citizens voting.

Are you seriously claiming, that a former real estate tycoon, does not have a firm grasp of the information and experiences that the staff of a registrars office has?

Seriously?!!

Trump didn't know how government works. We saw that clearly throughout his presidency but mostly his mishandling of the pandemic.

 

[surada]

We will have to settle for the audits.

Unconstitutional.

What is unconstitutional about using evidence and information from an audit? Unconstitutional to expose fraud?

For an audit to have any validity whatsoever, it has to be conducted pursuant to established procedures. These clowns are simply destroying the ballots.

ou said that the "means by which the rabid right" got it's information was not effected.

I agreed with the point, though I dropped your partisan spin.

I went on to make a point that my original concern was more about the more moderate voters.


That was not a "backhanded insult". That was my conceding your point. There was no insult at all.

"might have learned to ignore the propaganda spouted by people like you"

Then you besmirch and sow mistrust of my fellow Americans and try to instill faithlessness in our democratic elections with:

"they are not an informed electorate, but a MISINFORMED electorate."

"And the election is thus not legitimate."

I completely disagree.

DO you believe that President Trump said that ws were "very fine people"?

I don't have to believe what he said, we have recordings.

Reporter: "Mr. President, are you putting what you’re calling the alt-left and white supremacists on the same moral plane?"

Trump: "I’m not putting anybody on a moral plane. What I’m saying is this: You had a group on one side and you had a group on the other, and they came at each other with clubs -- and it was vicious and it was horrible. And it was a horrible thing to watch.

"But there is another side. There was a group on this side. You can call them the left -- you just called them the left -- that came violently attacking the other group. So you can say what you want, but that’s the way it is.

Reporter: (Inaudible) "… both sides, sir. You said there was hatred, there was violence on both sides. Are the --"

Trump: "Yes, I think there’s blame on both sides. If you look at both sides -- I think there’s blame on both sides. And I have no doubt about it, and you don’t have any doubt about it either. And if you reported it accurately, you would say."

Reporter: "The neo-Nazis started this. They showed up in Charlottesville to protest --"

Trump: "Excuse me, excuse me. They didn’t put themselves -- and you had some very bad people in that group, but you also had people that were very fine people, on both sides. You had people in that group. Excuse me, excuse me. I saw the same pictures as you did. You had people in that group that were there to protest the taking down of, to them, a very, very important statue and the renaming of a park from Robert E. Lee to another name."

Reporter: "George Washington and Robert E. Lee are not the same."

Trump: "George Washington was a slave owner........"

In Context: Trump’s ‘very fine people on both sides’ remarks

On Aug. 15, 2017, President Donald Trump held a press conference to discuss an executive order he had signed on infrastr

www.politifact.com

And thank you for proving my point that you people are the ones pushing propaganda and lies.

That you can stand by that lie, after it has been so repeatedly and completely debunked, shows that you are beyond saving.

That you people SUCCESSFULLY pushed that lie, and made it stick, is incredible.

That the American voters, as a group, were SUCCESSFULLY LIED TO THAT THE US PRESIDENT WAS SYMPATHETIC TO WHITE SUPREMACISTS, MAKES THE ELECTORATE MISINFORMED AND THE ELECTION ILLEGETIMATE.

And there's that "gotcha" moment you were going for.

But it's not working out like you've planned. You're proving how brainwashed you truly are. You're so desperate to find some lie to hang on the left so you can ignore all of the truth you're being told because one thing is a lie.

You're simply parroting the spin that the billionaire right wing media has given you about Trump's comments. Yes, he really did say "good people on both sides". There is absolutely no debunking of his statement, except by FOX News lying to you and telling you he never said it.

And if you're prepared to discard what the let is telling you over one purported lie, why don't you discard everything Trump told you because HE lied to you relentlessly? Why don't you discard what FOX News tells you because they lie to you so relentlessly.

Why do you try to push for someone on the left to say something you can call a "lie" and in order to permanently discredit that individual, while accepting the relentless lying from Trump and FOX News?

Your need to characterize my actions as having anything to do with "Fox" or Trump is.... you not getting me at all.


My point stands. The "very fine people" lie has been completely and utterly debunked over and over again.


Yet you people, managed to make it stick. Moderate votes, and minority voters who might have voted for Trump based on a number of factors, were told over and over again, by their news sources, that Trump was, at best, sympathetic to ws.

That is, imo, FRAUD BY DECEPTION, and thus the election was not "free and fair" and thus not legitimate.


AND, that is only HALF of the problem. The other half is the various tools of intimidation, from literal to figurative mobs.

Wait...this is a new tact for the Trumplicans I think. Donald Trump, the biggest liar in the history of United States presidents, allegedly lost because you perceive people lied about what he said in Charlottesville? All they did was play tape of him

Really scraping the bottom of the barrel for excuses now.

That you are shocked that I engaged in independent thought, is very revealing about how you personally operate.

My point stands. Fraud by Deception.

And the point is not, "why he lost", but that the election was not legitimate.


Indeed, as long as you people continue your propaganda, no election will be.

Trump is the only one claiming election fraud. Trump thinks a Republican governor of Georgia threw the election to Biden. LOLOL

Trump is mentally ill.

 

[Correll]

We will have to settle for the audits.

Unconstitutional.

What is unconstitutional about using evidence and information from an audit? Unconstitutional to expose fraud?

For an audit to have any validity whatsoever, it has to be conducted pursuant to established procedures. These clowns are simply destroying the ballots.

ou said that the "means by which the rabid right" got it's information was not effected.

I agreed with the point, though I dropped your partisan spin.

I went on to make a point that my original concern was more about the more moderate voters.


That was not a "backhanded insult". That was my conceding your point. There was no insult at all.

"might have learned to ignore the propaganda spouted by people like you"

Then you besmirch and sow mistrust of my fellow Americans and try to instill faithlessness in our democratic elections with:

"they are not an informed electorate, but a MISINFORMED electorate."

"And the election is thus not legitimate."

I completely disagree.

DO you believe that President Trump said that ws were "very fine people"?

I don't have to believe what he said, we have recordings.

Reporter: "Mr. President, are you putting what you’re calling the alt-left and white supremacists on the same moral plane?"

Trump: "I’m not putting anybody on a moral plane. What I’m saying is this: You had a group on one side and you had a group on the other, and they came at each other with clubs -- and it was vicious and it was horrible. And it was a horrible thing to watch.

"But there is another side. There was a group on this side. You can call them the left -- you just called them the left -- that came violently attacking the other group. So you can say what you want, but that’s the way it is.

Reporter: (Inaudible) "… both sides, sir. You said there was hatred, there was violence on both sides. Are the --"

Trump: "Yes, I think there’s blame on both sides. If you look at both sides -- I think there’s blame on both sides. And I have no doubt about it, and you don’t have any doubt about it either. And if you reported it accurately, you would say."

Reporter: "The neo-Nazis started this. They showed up in Charlottesville to protest --"

Trump: "Excuse me, excuse me. They didn’t put themselves -- and you had some very bad people in that group, but you also had people that were very fine people, on both sides. You had people in that group. Excuse me, excuse me. I saw the same pictures as you did. You had people in that group that were there to protest the taking down of, to them, a very, very important statue and the renaming of a park from Robert E. Lee to another name."

Reporter: "George Washington and Robert E. Lee are not the same."

Trump: "George Washington was a slave owner........"

In Context: Trump’s ‘very fine people on both sides’ remarks

On Aug. 15, 2017, President Donald Trump held a press conference to discuss an executive order he had signed on infrastr

www.politifact.com

And thank you for proving my point that you people are the ones pushing propaganda and lies.

That you can stand by that lie, after it has been so repeatedly and completely debunked, shows that you are beyond saving.

That you people SUCCESSFULLY pushed that lie, and made it stick, is incredible.

That the American voters, as a group, were SUCCESSFULLY LIED TO THAT THE US PRESIDENT WAS SYMPATHETIC TO WHITE SUPREMACISTS, MAKES THE ELECTORATE MISINFORMED AND THE ELECTION ILLEGETIMATE.

And there's that "gotcha" moment you were going for.

But it's not working out like you've planned. You're proving how brainwashed you truly are. You're so desperate to find some lie to hang on the left so you can ignore all of the truth you're being told because one thing is a lie.

You're simply parroting the spin that the billionaire right wing media has given you about Trump's comments. Yes, he really did say "good people on both sides". There is absolutely no debunking of his statement, except by FOX News lying to you and telling you he never said it.

And if you're prepared to discard what the let is telling you over one purported lie, why don't you discard everything Trump told you because HE lied to you relentlessly? Why don't you discard what FOX News tells you because they lie to you so relentlessly.

Why do you try to push for someone on the left to say something you can call a "lie" and in order to permanently discredit that individual, while accepting the relentless lying from Trump and FOX News?

Your need to characterize my actions as having anything to do with "Fox" or Trump is.... you not getting me at all.


My point stands. The "very fine people" lie has been completely and utterly debunked over and over again.


Yet you people, managed to make it stick. Moderate votes, and minority voters who might have voted for Trump based on a number of factors, were told over and over again, by their news sources, that Trump was, at best, sympathetic to ws.

That is, imo, FRAUD BY DECEPTION, and thus the election was not "free and fair" and thus not legitimate.


AND, that is only HALF of the problem. The other half is the various tools of intimidation, from literal to figurative mobs.

Wait...this is a new tact for the Trumplicans I think. Donald Trump, the biggest liar in the history of United States presidents, allegedly lost because you perceive people lied about what he said in Charlottesville? All they did was play tape of him

Really scraping the bottom of the barrel for excuses now.

That you are shocked that I engaged in independent thought, is very revealing about how you personally operate.

My point stands. Fraud by Deception.

And the point is not, "why he lost", but that the election was not legitimate.


Indeed, as long as you people continue your propaganda, no election will be.

Maybe if like in 2000 it was all up to 1 state like Florida MAYBE Trump could have stolen this one like Bush did but he had to steal 5 states. That wasn't going to happen. Like MAYBE he could have stopped all the Detroit votes from being counted and then he could have stolen MI but then he'd still have 4 other states to steal.

You're a joke.

If the liberals in charge of the means of information had not worked so hard and so unified to misinform the American public,

there is no telling what the impact could have been.


Trump made serious headway in black males, DESPITE being branded as a ws.


DO you think that NOT being branded as a ws, would have helped or hurt him getting black male votes?

(For one limited example.)

 

[surada]

This is not a conspiracy. These are things that have happened. THAT MAKES THEM FACTS.

Pollak: The Real 'Big Lie' Is That the 2020 Election Was Free and Fair

The real "Big Lie" is that the 2020 election was free and fair, when it was marred by rule changes, censorship, and political violence.

www.breitbart.com

At the same time, I noted, the 2020 presidential election violated internationally accepted criteria for a free and fair election. “Voters were denied the ‘absolute’ right to a secret ballot [through flawed vote-by-mail systems]. They were denied ‘equal opportunity of access to the media, particularly the mass communications media, in order to put forward their political views.’ They were denied ‘security with respect to their lives and property.’ And they were denied “freedom of movement, assembly, association and expression.’

Someone tell me that did not happen.

Maybe we should bring back the fairness doctrine.

We should not do what Democrats did after 2016, and spend four years chasing conspiracy theories.

In 2016 Trump claimed that 3-5 million illegals vote, That too was a lie.

How many was it?

Trump ordered a commission to find the evidence.. The commission was disbanded for lack of evidence.

So, you don't know?

Trump has been claiming elections are rigged for years. He's been claiming since the 1970s that the system is rigged against him. LOLOL Why on earth would you believe anything he says?

you made a claim that a certain number was a lie. To make that claim, you have to have some idea what the real number was.


So, what was it?

Or have you just been talking shit?

The "real" number is significantly lower. In 15 years working at a California registrars office I have had exactly two non citizens that voted. One was a young dreamer who was not aware of their immigration status another was a Canadian on a visa. There is not a pandemic of non citizens voting.

Are you seriously claiming, that a former real estate tycoon, does not have a firm grasp of the information and experiences that the staff of a registrars office has?

Seriously?!!

Trump didn't know how government works. We saw that clearly throughout his presidency but mostly his mishandling of the pandemic.

We saw that with his birther claims and his claim that Ted Cruz father was part of the JFK assassination. Trump is mentally ill.

 

[sealybobo]

This is not a conspiracy. These are things that have happened. THAT MAKES THEM FACTS.

Pollak: The Real 'Big Lie' Is That the 2020 Election Was Free and Fair

The real "Big Lie" is that the 2020 election was free and fair, when it was marred by rule changes, censorship, and political violence.

www.breitbart.com

At the same time, I noted, the 2020 presidential election violated internationally accepted criteria for a free and fair election. “Voters were denied the ‘absolute’ right to a secret ballot [through flawed vote-by-mail systems]. They were denied ‘equal opportunity of access to the media, particularly the mass communications media, in order to put forward their political views.’ They were denied ‘security with respect to their lives and property.’ And they were denied “freedom of movement, assembly, association and expression.’

Someone tell me that did not happen.

Maybe we should bring back the fairness doctrine.

We should not do what Democrats did after 2016, and spend four years chasing conspiracy theories.

In 2016 Trump claimed that 3-5 million illegals vote, That too was a lie.

How many was it?

Trump ordered a commission to find the evidence.. The commission was disbanded for lack of evidence.

So, you don't know?

Trump has been claiming elections are rigged for years. He's been claiming since the 1970s that the system is rigged against him. LOLOL Why on earth would you believe anything he says?

you made a claim that a certain number was a lie. To make that claim, you have to have some idea what the real number was.


So, what was it?

Or have you just been talking shit?

The "real" number is significantly lower. In 15 years working at a California registrars office I have had exactly two non citizens that voted. One was a young dreamer who was not aware of their immigration status another was a Canadian on a visa. There is not a pandemic of non citizens voting.

Are you seriously claiming, that a former real estate tycoon, does not have a firm grasp of the information and experiences that the staff of a registrars office has?

Seriously?!!

You want proof that Trump didn't know what he was doing from day one? Right from the start in 2017 Trump did something shady and even Republicans back then weren't denying it. Their argument then was "he's new and doesn't know what he's doing"

Ryan Defends Trump: He’s ‘Just New to This’​

The Speaker of the House said the president wasn’t trying to obstruct justice, but just didn't know enough about political protocol.

Trump's request that then-FBI Director James Comey let up on the investigation into former national security adviser Michael Flynn's connections to Russia, saying the president was inexperienced, not trying to impede an investigation.

 

[Correll]

Libertarian. That is singular.

And it's unclear how dblack is a libertarian, that's why I asked him.

And I answered. You're not listening. As far as you're concerned - I'm not a libertarian. Clear?

You said you don't call yourself a libertarian. I asked what your views are. Just asking for a summary. Saying you don't call yourself a libertarian anymore doesn't answer that, no

A libertarian is just a spin off of Republican. Small government, less taxes, less regulations, less socialism like they would do away with public schools and social security/medicare.

I could go on and on but bottom line is they are Republicans.

I'm not a Democrat I'm a Curfuffle. I'm pro choice, believe in global warming, like public schools and unions, etc....but I don't like Democrats border policies so now I'm a Curfuffle. Not a Democrat. LOL

I think you might be underestimating the number of libertarians who are motivated by opposition to cultural or social norms.

Quite a lot of drug legalization types. Ann Coulter ran into some of that, when there was some discussion of having her run on a Libertarian ticket.

Yea that's a great example of how libertarians are just like Republicans only they are for legalizing pot. sorry that's not enough to make me like their mostly Republican/conservative policies.

Ann Coulter is a horrible person. Ever see her get roasted on Comedy Central? Funny shit. They tore her apart.

IF the Libertarians were just like republicans like you claim, they would have been happy with Ann. The plan feel apart.

That roast? That was your people revealing themselves to be animals. Yes. They did tear her apart. Wow. What an accomplishment. A bunch of people get together and insult the shit out of a woman who is massively outnumbered.

And you consider that something to be proud of?

Once again, you reveal your ignorance of American cultural norms. Do you not understand what a "roast" is??? It's where a group of people get together and tear apart one of their friends. It's an American tradition. The more vicious your assault on the "honoree", the bigger the applause.

You keep claiming to be an American and that you live in the USA, and yet you keep getting tripped up by American cultural idioms, like "If you can't do the time, then don't do the crime". Not to mention your continual promotion of lies, bullshit and all things Trump.

Those were not Ann's friends. They were her bitter and hateful enemies. That was a violation of tradition.

 

[sealybobo]

We will have to settle for the audits.

Unconstitutional.

What is unconstitutional about using evidence and information from an audit? Unconstitutional to expose fraud?

For an audit to have any validity whatsoever, it has to be conducted pursuant to established procedures. These clowns are simply destroying the ballots.

ou said that the "means by which the rabid right" got it's information was not effected.

I agreed with the point, though I dropped your partisan spin.

I went on to make a point that my original concern was more about the more moderate voters.


That was not a "backhanded insult". That was my conceding your point. There was no insult at all.

"might have learned to ignore the propaganda spouted by people like you"

Then you besmirch and sow mistrust of my fellow Americans and try to instill faithlessness in our democratic elections with:

"they are not an informed electorate, but a MISINFORMED electorate."

"And the election is thus not legitimate."

I completely disagree.

DO you believe that President Trump said that ws were "very fine people"?

I don't have to believe what he said, we have recordings.

Reporter: "Mr. President, are you putting what you’re calling the alt-left and white supremacists on the same moral plane?"

Trump: "I’m not putting anybody on a moral plane. What I’m saying is this: You had a group on one side and you had a group on the other, and they came at each other with clubs -- and it was vicious and it was horrible. And it was a horrible thing to watch.

"But there is another side. There was a group on this side. You can call them the left -- you just called them the left -- that came violently attacking the other group. So you can say what you want, but that’s the way it is.

Reporter: (Inaudible) "… both sides, sir. You said there was hatred, there was violence on both sides. Are the --"

Trump: "Yes, I think there’s blame on both sides. If you look at both sides -- I think there’s blame on both sides. And I have no doubt about it, and you don’t have any doubt about it either. And if you reported it accurately, you would say."

Reporter: "The neo-Nazis started this. They showed up in Charlottesville to protest --"

Trump: "Excuse me, excuse me. They didn’t put themselves -- and you had some very bad people in that group, but you also had people that were very fine people, on both sides. You had people in that group. Excuse me, excuse me. I saw the same pictures as you did. You had people in that group that were there to protest the taking down of, to them, a very, very important statue and the renaming of a park from Robert E. Lee to another name."

Reporter: "George Washington and Robert E. Lee are not the same."

Trump: "George Washington was a slave owner........"

In Context: Trump’s ‘very fine people on both sides’ remarks

On Aug. 15, 2017, President Donald Trump held a press conference to discuss an executive order he had signed on infrastr

www.politifact.com

And thank you for proving my point that you people are the ones pushing propaganda and lies.

That you can stand by that lie, after it has been so repeatedly and completely debunked, shows that you are beyond saving.

That you people SUCCESSFULLY pushed that lie, and made it stick, is incredible.

That the American voters, as a group, were SUCCESSFULLY LIED TO THAT THE US PRESIDENT WAS SYMPATHETIC TO WHITE SUPREMACISTS, MAKES THE ELECTORATE MISINFORMED AND THE ELECTION ILLEGETIMATE.

And there's that "gotcha" moment you were going for.

But it's not working out like you've planned. You're proving how brainwashed you truly are. You're so desperate to find some lie to hang on the left so you can ignore all of the truth you're being told because one thing is a lie.

You're simply parroting the spin that the billionaire right wing media has given you about Trump's comments. Yes, he really did say "good people on both sides". There is absolutely no debunking of his statement, except by FOX News lying to you and telling you he never said it.

And if you're prepared to discard what the let is telling you over one purported lie, why don't you discard everything Trump told you because HE lied to you relentlessly? Why don't you discard what FOX News tells you because they lie to you so relentlessly.

Why do you try to push for someone on the left to say something you can call a "lie" and in order to permanently discredit that individual, while accepting the relentless lying from Trump and FOX News?

Your need to characterize my actions as having anything to do with "Fox" or Trump is.... you not getting me at all.


My point stands. The "very fine people" lie has been completely and utterly debunked over and over again.


Yet you people, managed to make it stick. Moderate votes, and minority voters who might have voted for Trump based on a number of factors, were told over and over again, by their news sources, that Trump was, at best, sympathetic to ws.

That is, imo, FRAUD BY DECEPTION, and thus the election was not "free and fair" and thus not legitimate.


AND, that is only HALF of the problem. The other half is the various tools of intimidation, from literal to figurative mobs.

Wait...this is a new tact for the Trumplicans I think. Donald Trump, the biggest liar in the history of United States presidents, allegedly lost because you perceive people lied about what he said in Charlottesville? All they did was play tape of him

Really scraping the bottom of the barrel for excuses now.

That you are shocked that I engaged in independent thought, is very revealing about how you personally operate.

My point stands. Fraud by Deception.

And the point is not, "why he lost", but that the election was not legitimate.


Indeed, as long as you people continue your propaganda, no election will be.

Maybe if like in 2000 it was all up to 1 state like Florida MAYBE Trump could have stolen this one like Bush did but he had to steal 5 states. That wasn't going to happen. Like MAYBE he could have stopped all the Detroit votes from being counted and then he could have stolen MI but then he'd still have 4 other states to steal.

You're a joke.

If the liberals in charge of the means of information had not worked so hard and so unified to misinform the American public,

there is no telling what the impact could have been.


Trump made serious headway in black males, DESPITE being branded as a ws.


DO you think that NOT being branded as a ws, would have helped or hurt him getting black male votes?

(For one limited example.)

It would have helped him get black votes but he chose to be a WS because he bet that he would get more whites to show up using that tactic. Remember blacks are only 10% of the population. Trump knew whites was his ticket to winning.

But yes Trump did sucker a lot of women, blacks and hispanics despite grabbing pussies, wooing the KKK and calling hispanics rapists.

 

[dblack]

If the liberals in charge of the means of information had not worked so hard and so unified to misinform the American public,

there is no telling what the impact could have been.


Trump made serious headway in black males, DESPITE being branded as a ws.


DO you think that NOT being branded as a ws, would have helped or hurt him getting black male votes?

(For one limited example.)

"Means of information".... hehe, are you deliberately parroting marxist rhetoric?

 

[Correll]

This is not a conspiracy. These are things that have happened. THAT MAKES THEM FACTS.

Pollak: The Real 'Big Lie' Is That the 2020 Election Was Free and Fair

The real "Big Lie" is that the 2020 election was free and fair, when it was marred by rule changes, censorship, and political violence.

www.breitbart.com

At the same time, I noted, the 2020 presidential election violated internationally accepted criteria for a free and fair election. “Voters were denied the ‘absolute’ right to a secret ballot [through flawed vote-by-mail systems]. They were denied ‘equal opportunity of access to the media, particularly the mass communications media, in order to put forward their political views.’ They were denied ‘security with respect to their lives and property.’ And they were denied “freedom of movement, assembly, association and expression.’

Someone tell me that did not happen.

Maybe we should bring back the fairness doctrine.

We should not do what Democrats did after 2016, and spend four years chasing conspiracy theories.

In 2016 Trump claimed that 3-5 million illegals vote, That too was a lie.

How many was it?

Trump ordered a commission to find the evidence.. The commission was disbanded for lack of evidence.

So, you don't know?

Trump has been claiming elections are rigged for years. He's been claiming since the 1970s that the system is rigged against him. LOLOL Why on earth would you believe anything he says?

you made a claim that a certain number was a lie. To make that claim, you have to have some idea what the real number was.


So, what was it?

Or have you just been talking shit?

The "real" number is significantly lower. In 15 years working at a California registrars office I have had exactly two non citizens that voted. One was a young dreamer who was not aware of their immigration status another was a Canadian on a visa. There is not a pandemic of non citizens voting.

Are you seriously claiming, that a former real estate tycoon, does not have a firm grasp of the information and experiences that the staff of a registrars office has?

Seriously?!!

Regarding election fraud? Um, yeah.

Shocking. Absolutely shocking.

Well, thanks for bring this to my attention. This will loom large in my mind, if Trump runs again.

Why would he run again? We will just steal it from him again. If he was so dangerous that Democrats and Deep State Republicans sabotaged him in 2020 why wouldn't we do it again in 2024?

Why don't you run someone else? And if they lose will you say we stole it again?

OMG I wish I could remember who told me they illegally voted. It was a Republican friend of mine and I can't remember who it was. But like I've said before, Republicans know voter fraud exists because they commit it. If not how else would they know it's possible? Remember election fraud and voter fraud are two different things. Voter fraud doesn't add up to much but election fraud does. Florida 2000 was election fraud. Hanging chads, butterfly ballots, rioting to stop the recount, disinfranchising minority voters by purging them from the lists, hacked Diebold voting machines.

I don't recall Republicans minding in 2000 that elections fraud occurred.

Perhaps you right. Perhaps we are past the point of peaceful political change.

 

[Dragonlady]

This is not a conspiracy. These are things that have happened. THAT MAKES THEM FACTS.

Pollak: The Real 'Big Lie' Is That the 2020 Election Was Free and Fair

The real "Big Lie" is that the 2020 election was free and fair, when it was marred by rule changes, censorship, and political violence.

www.breitbart.com

At the same time, I noted, the 2020 presidential election violated internationally accepted criteria for a free and fair election. “Voters were denied the ‘absolute’ right to a secret ballot [through flawed vote-by-mail systems]. They were denied ‘equal opportunity of access to the media, particularly the mass communications media, in order to put forward their political views.’ They were denied ‘security with respect to their lives and property.’ And they were denied “freedom of movement, assembly, association and expression.’

Someone tell me that did not happen.

Maybe we should bring back the fairness doctrine.

We should not do what Democrats did after 2016, and spend four years chasing conspiracy theories.

In 2016 Trump claimed that 3-5 million illegals vote, That too was a lie.

How many was it?

Trump ordered a commission to find the evidence.. The commission was disbanded for lack of evidence.

So, you don't know?

Yes, we do know. There was no fraud. If you can't find evidence that something that you claim is pervasive, is happening, you're either incompetent or it's not really happening.

For 20 years now, Republicans have been claiming that illegals are voting in massive numbers, but they have yet to produce a shred of evidence that it's really happening. It's like claiming the Clintons are criminals. 25 Republican investigations, $100 million spent turning over every rock in their lives, and still no criminal or corruption charges, indictments or convictions, on either of them. No witnesses, no evidence, and no crimes. But still you claim the Clintons are corrupt criminals.

It is now "common knowledge" among Republicans that illegals are voting. But only because Republicans have been repeating the same lies over and over again for the past 30 years, and never telling people the truth.

 

[Correll]

Libertarian. That is singular.

And it's unclear how dblack is a libertarian, that's why I asked him.

And I answered. You're not listening. As far as you're concerned - I'm not a libertarian. Clear?

You said you don't call yourself a libertarian. I asked what your views are. Just asking for a summary. Saying you don't call yourself a libertarian anymore doesn't answer that, no

A libertarian is just a spin off of Republican. Small government, less taxes, less regulations, less socialism like they would do away with public schools and social security/medicare.

I could go on and on but bottom line is they are Republicans.

I'm not a Democrat I'm a Curfuffle. I'm pro choice, believe in global warming, like public schools and unions, etc....but I don't like Democrats border policies so now I'm a Curfuffle. Not a Democrat. LOL

I think you might be underestimating the number of libertarians who are motivated by opposition to cultural or social norms.

Quite a lot of drug legalization types. Ann Coulter ran into some of that, when there was some discussion of having her run on a Libertarian ticket.

Yea that's a great example of how libertarians are just like Republicans only they are for legalizing pot. sorry that's not enough to make me like their mostly Republican/conservative policies.

Ann Coulter is a horrible person. Ever see her get roasted on Comedy Central? Funny shit. They tore her apart.

IF the Libertarians were just like republicans like you claim, they would have been happy with Ann. The plan feel apart.


That roast? That was your people revealing themselves to be animals. Yes. They did tear her apart. Wow. What an accomplishment. A bunch of people get together and insult the shit out of a woman who is massively outnumbered.


And you consider that something to be proud of?

Yes I am proud because everything horrible they said about her was true. She has balls to show up I'll give her that.

Literally, I think she has balls. Have you seen her adams apple?

Your hate has made you ...disgusting and irrational.