R
rdean
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The Confederacy and States' Rights
Oops, I thought it was about the Republican Party.
Oops, I thought it was about the Republican Party.
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First - old thread.What difference does it make if the Confederacy had the right to secede? They, like Cuba, were granted peaceful succession from the US. Since they attacked Sumter, they experienced a response the same as Castro would receive if he were foolish enough to attack Guantanamo.
Do you disagree with the timeline of sucession at wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_Sumter ?
The word is spelled "secession". Equat, KK is often wrong, for instance, most in the North thought secession was lawful. However, KK is spot on that Lincoln set up the South by forcing it to fire on the national flag, which infuriated the northern Democrats and brought the North down upon the South.
Lincoln made it clear in his inaugural address that he was going to invade the south if they refused to pay their taxes and tariffs to the federal government, and he forced the south's hand because he did not have northern sentiment on his side until Fort Sumter.
Lincoln made it clear in his inaugural address that he was going to invade the south if they refused to pay their taxes and tariffs to the federal government, and he forced the south's hand because he did not have northern sentiment on his side until Fort Sumter.
Where did Lincoln state such as you claim? I read his address at showcase.netins.net/web/creative/lincoln/speeches/1inaug.htm.
Apples and Oranges, and for all of that, unimportant.
The South probably had the right to secede, yet still made the wrong choice because Lincoln maneuvered them into starting the war, and the North spanked and cranked and tanked and wanked the Southern booty awfully, terribly, brutally hard.
And the South deserved what it got.
Lincoln made it even more clear that he WOULD NOT allow states to secedeLincoln made it clear in his inaugural address that he was going to invade the south if they refused to pay their taxes and tariffs to the federal government, and he forced the south's hand because he did not have northern sentiment on his side until Fort Sumter.
Where did Lincoln state such as you claim? I read his address at showcase.netins.net/web/creative/lincoln/speeches/1inaug.htm.
"In doing this there needs to be no bloodshed or violence, and there shall be none unless it be forced upon the national authority. The power confided to me will be used to hold, occupy, and possess the property and places belonging to the Government and to collect the duties and imposts; but beyond what may be necessary for these objects, there will be no invasion, no using of force against or among the people anywhere."
Abraham Lincoln: First Inaugural Address. U.S. Inaugural Addresses. 1989
That"all" in to lawfully rescind it is the same as saying "Unless the tyranny of the masses agrees to release some states from perpetual servitude, the states cannot legally secede"I hold that in contemplation of universal law and of the Constitution the Union of these States is perpetual. Perpetuity is implied, if not expressed, in the fundamental law of all national governments. It is safe to assert that no government proper ever had a provision in its organic law for its own termination. Continue to execute all the express provisions of our National Constitution, and the Union will endure forever, it being impossible to destroy it except by some action not provided for in the instrument itself. 12
Again: If the United States be not a government proper, but an association of States in the nature of contract merely, can it, as a contract, be peaceably unmade by less than all the parties who made it? One party to a contract may violate itbreak it, so to speakbut does it not require all to lawfully rescind it?
Lincoln made it even more clear that he WOULD NOT allow states to secedeWhere did Lincoln state such as you claim? I read his address at showcase.netins.net/web/creative/lincoln/speeches/1inaug.htm.
"In doing this there needs to be no bloodshed or violence, and there shall be none unless it be forced upon the national authority. The power confided to me will be used to hold, occupy, and possess the property and places belonging to the Government and to collect the duties and imposts; but beyond what may be necessary for these objects, there will be no invasion, no using of force against or among the people anywhere."
Abraham Lincoln: First Inaugural Address. U.S. Inaugural Addresses. 1989
from the same address
That"all" in to lawfully rescind it is the same as saying "Unless the tyranny of the masses agrees to release some states from perpetual servitude, the states cannot legally secede"I hold that in contemplation of universal law and of the Constitution the Union of these States is perpetual. Perpetuity is implied, if not expressed, in the fundamental law of all national governments. It is safe to assert that no government proper ever had a provision in its organic law for its own termination. Continue to execute all the express provisions of our National Constitution, and the Union will endure forever, it being impossible to destroy it except by some action not provided for in the instrument itself. 12
Again: If the United States be not a government proper, but an association of States in the nature of contract merely, can it, as a contract, be peaceably unmade by less than all the parties who made it? One party to a contract may violate itbreak it, so to speakbut does it not require all to lawfully rescind it?
and of course since his oath includes the Requirement to enforce the law, he gets to use whatever force is needed to arrest the lawbreakers.
Except of course the minor fact that using the army for enforcing the law is illegal and unconstitutional.
The states were merely the agents of the Will of the People, which formed an indivisible union. That is what Jackson, Houston, Lincoln, Webster, Clay, and millions of other Americans believed. And they enforced it to the South's gasping and agonizing dismay.
Only Texas permitted its citizens to vote on the secession ordinance.
Only Texas permitted its citizens to vote on the secession ordinance.
I'm sorry didn't you just say the states were the agents of the will of the people? If they didn't want to secede then secession wouldn't have happened. Look at West Virginia for example.