The definitive guide to the 2nd Amendment

[Brain357]

Well with concealed carry at it's highest, violent crime has been going up.

So the fuck what?

Even the WI DA says there is no proof that any rise in crime was caused by the concealed carry law.

And if CCW did really cause crime then why is it that crime has been on the decline for more than 25 years and even taking into account the slight rise in crime recently both the crime and the murder rates are at a 30 year low even though more people than ever have concealed carry permits ?

Violent crime has increased now as concealed carry had increased. Crime decreased after Clinton crime bill and gun control.

Even the WI DA says there is no proof that any rise in crime was a direct result of the concealed carry laws

So until you can actually prove a causal link between the rise in crime in WI and it's CCW law you are as usual just flapping your gums.

you need to read this

Correlation does not imply causation

That being said, you also can not prove that it has reduced criminal activity either like some claim. Here is my take on open carry and the Criminal. If I were to rob a store, I will just rob it. Afterall, that's all I am there for. I will probably not shoot up the place if they cooperate and give me what I demand at gun point. Robber isn't given the same importance by law enforcement that murder is. But let me enter and see that one person wearing that gun on their hip, that is my first target. And I am probably better at it than John Q is with his. Now that I just killed one person, I just might go into the old "No Witnesses" mode and try and shoot everyone else. The Open Carry person does not even have to draw his weapon. On the Other hand, the CCW does have the option not to let the criminal know he is armed and can elect NOT to draw the weapon unless he feels that it's entered into a life or death situation.

Wrong......you have no idea what the criminal intends when they are robbing a store....

8 people murdered in Brown's Chicken robbery..after they had the money....



Brown's Chicken massacre - Wikipedia

Most criminals are not good with their guns.....that is just a bad guess on your part, since most criminals can't legally buy, own or carry a gun...which means they can't go to a legitimate range to practice.....

So that is once.

 

[2aguy]

They don’t have regular school shootings where there is strong gun control. Cops aren’t killed regularly either.

Oh really. How about we look at just Texas

Gunman Kills at Least 26 in Attack on Rural Texas Church
He killed 26 in a Church. What was his weapon of choice? An AR-15 deritive.

University of Texas tower shooting - Wikipedia
He had 3 rifles he used from the Tower. A Model 700 6mm, M-1 30 cal Carbine with at least 4 clips, A 35 cal pump and a Shotgun plus handguns. All were purchased legally. Before he came to the Campus, he had already killed his Mother and Wife. From the Tower, he killed 13 and injured 31. He was already diagnosed as a problem because he sought help. Of course, he was shot dead. In the Autopsy, they found he had a brain tumor that might explain his actions. Yet, no laws were in place to prevent him to buy those weapons, clips and ammo. Had there been a law that his councelor had to follow about putting him the no buy list this wouldn't have happened at nearly the body count. Let's face it, a knife or a baseball bat kills much slower

And Texas has nearly the lax laws that Nevada does. And we know how that state has worked out lately.


.

And more people are murdered with knives each and every year than are murdered with rifles of any kind, let alone AR-15 civilian and police rifles.....

So is it the number of dead that is the issue? Than you should be more worried about knives, clubs and bare hands.....since they are used to murder more people every single year....

Expanded Homicide Data Table 4

Rifles....374

knives....1,604

blunt objects....472

bare hands....656

How many in Vegas by just one shooter?

The Vegas shooter, with 2 rifles, firing over 1,000 rounds of ammunition into a tightly packed crowd of over 22,000 people...

58.

The muslim terrorist in Nice, France, with a couple hundred dollar rental truck.....

86.

58 by one shooter. Dangerous weapon. And what is the most killed by a single person with a knife?

Rental Truck....86 people...cost less than one of those rifles......

 

[Brain357]

Oh really. How about we look at just Texas

Gunman Kills at Least 26 in Attack on Rural Texas Church
He killed 26 in a Church. What was his weapon of choice? An AR-15 deritive.

University of Texas tower shooting - Wikipedia
He had 3 rifles he used from the Tower. A Model 700 6mm, M-1 30 cal Carbine with at least 4 clips, A 35 cal pump and a Shotgun plus handguns. All were purchased legally. Before he came to the Campus, he had already killed his Mother and Wife. From the Tower, he killed 13 and injured 31. He was already diagnosed as a problem because he sought help. Of course, he was shot dead. In the Autopsy, they found he had a brain tumor that might explain his actions. Yet, no laws were in place to prevent him to buy those weapons, clips and ammo. Had there been a law that his councelor had to follow about putting him the no buy list this wouldn't have happened at nearly the body count. Let's face it, a knife or a baseball bat kills much slower

And Texas has nearly the lax laws that Nevada does. And we know how that state has worked out lately.


.

\
And the church shooter was stopped by an NRA instructor with his own, private AR-15 civilian self defense rifle, saving at least 26 lives and likely a lot more had the shooter been allowed to leave to continue his killing.........and the texas tower shooter was pinned down by students who brought their hunting rifles to the Texas campus.....

Stopped after many dead. Countries with strong gun control don’t have regular church shootings.

And Britain didn't have church shootings when their people were allowed to actually own handguns......they had guns, they didn't use them to shoot up churches.....so nothing you say has any bearing on law abiding people owning guns....twit.

Yes their gun ownership never reached ridiculous levels like ours. They stopped all the death before it happened.

No.....they had guns, but their culture kept them from shooting up schools....now, with single teenage mothers raising young males, and their culture unable to civilize them, they had 2 attempted school shootings last year......they now have a real problem growing and no way to stop it.

Link? They never had guns at huge ownership levels.

 

[2aguy]

Me giving up my guns will not save anyone's life.

They don’t have regular school shootings where there is strong gun control. Cops aren’t killed regularly either.

Moron.....Britain had one school shootings before they banned guns.....banning guns didn't change that record....that means that British people who owned guns before the ban weren't using the guns they actually had in their possession to shoot up schools...

However, there were two attempted school shootings in Britain last year, both were stopped by dumb luck......showing you have no idea what you are talking about.

So we have more in a week than they have all year. We need gun control.

Another cop shot today.
High-ranking Chicago cop shot at Thompson Center in Loop

No...we need British criminals....they have guns, they just don't murder police officers....

Yeah Britain and every country with strong gun control. Course our children have no problem getting guns either.

The teenagers in Britain are getting guns now very easily.....as gun crime in London is up 42%, and 23% across the entire country......and one of the school shooters was in grade school.....

 

[Brain357]

Oh really. How about we look at just Texas

Gunman Kills at Least 26 in Attack on Rural Texas Church
He killed 26 in a Church. What was his weapon of choice? An AR-15 deritive.

University of Texas tower shooting - Wikipedia
He had 3 rifles he used from the Tower. A Model 700 6mm, M-1 30 cal Carbine with at least 4 clips, A 35 cal pump and a Shotgun plus handguns. All were purchased legally. Before he came to the Campus, he had already killed his Mother and Wife. From the Tower, he killed 13 and injured 31. He was already diagnosed as a problem because he sought help. Of course, he was shot dead. In the Autopsy, they found he had a brain tumor that might explain his actions. Yet, no laws were in place to prevent him to buy those weapons, clips and ammo. Had there been a law that his councelor had to follow about putting him the no buy list this wouldn't have happened at nearly the body count. Let's face it, a knife or a baseball bat kills much slower

And Texas has nearly the lax laws that Nevada does. And we know how that state has worked out lately.


.

And more people are murdered with knives each and every year than are murdered with rifles of any kind, let alone AR-15 civilian and police rifles.....

So is it the number of dead that is the issue? Than you should be more worried about knives, clubs and bare hands.....since they are used to murder more people every single year....

Expanded Homicide Data Table 4

Rifles....374

knives....1,604

blunt objects....472

bare hands....656

How many in Vegas by just one shooter?

The Vegas shooter, with 2 rifles, firing over 1,000 rounds of ammunition into a tightly packed crowd of over 22,000 people...

58.

The muslim terrorist in Nice, France, with a couple hundred dollar rental truck.....

86.

58 by one shooter. Dangerous weapon. And what is the most killed by a single person with a knife?

Rental Truck....86 people...cost less than one of those rifles......

Can they do that in a church? In a school?

You didn’t answer my question.

 

[2aguy]

\
And the church shooter was stopped by an NRA instructor with his own, private AR-15 civilian self defense rifle, saving at least 26 lives and likely a lot more had the shooter been allowed to leave to continue his killing.........and the texas tower shooter was pinned down by students who brought their hunting rifles to the Texas campus.....

Stopped after many dead. Countries with strong gun control don’t have regular church shootings.

And Britain didn't have church shootings when their people were allowed to actually own handguns......they had guns, they didn't use them to shoot up churches.....so nothing you say has any bearing on law abiding people owning guns....twit.

Yes their gun ownership never reached ridiculous levels like ours. They stopped all the death before it happened.

No.....they had guns, but their culture kept them from shooting up schools....now, with single teenage mothers raising young males, and their culture unable to civilize them, they had 2 attempted school shootings last year......they now have a real problem growing and no way to stop it.

Link? They never had guns at huge ownership levels.

Moron......they had access to owning guns and they didn't use them......that is the point, twit. They had handguns, and they didn't use them for crime or mass shootings..Their gun ban and confiscation didn't change anything...other than to increase their gun murder numbers and escalate their gun crime rate.

 

[Brain357]

They don’t have regular school shootings where there is strong gun control. Cops aren’t killed regularly either.

Moron.....Britain had one school shootings before they banned guns.....banning guns didn't change that record....that means that British people who owned guns before the ban weren't using the guns they actually had in their possession to shoot up schools...

However, there were two attempted school shootings in Britain last year, both were stopped by dumb luck......showing you have no idea what you are talking about.

So we have more in a week than they have all year. We need gun control.

Another cop shot today.
High-ranking Chicago cop shot at Thompson Center in Loop

No...we need British criminals....they have guns, they just don't murder police officers....

Yeah Britain and every country with strong gun control. Course our children have no problem getting guns either.

The teenagers in Britain are getting guns now very easily.....as gun crime in London is up 42%, and 23% across the entire country......and one of the school shooters was in grade school.....

Nobody died in a school shooting. We have death regularly.

 

[2aguy]

And more people are murdered with knives each and every year than are murdered with rifles of any kind, let alone AR-15 civilian and police rifles.....

So is it the number of dead that is the issue? Than you should be more worried about knives, clubs and bare hands.....since they are used to murder more people every single year....

Expanded Homicide Data Table 4

Rifles....374

knives....1,604

blunt objects....472

bare hands....656

How many in Vegas by just one shooter?

The Vegas shooter, with 2 rifles, firing over 1,000 rounds of ammunition into a tightly packed crowd of over 22,000 people...

58.

The muslim terrorist in Nice, France, with a couple hundred dollar rental truck.....

86.

58 by one shooter. Dangerous weapon. And what is the most killed by a single person with a knife?

Rental Truck....86 people...cost less than one of those rifles......

Can they do that in a church? In a school?

You didn’t answer my question.

They can run people over as they exit the church and as the kids line up for school...moron......

 

[Brain357]

Stopped after many dead. Countries with strong gun control don’t have regular church shootings.

And Britain didn't have church shootings when their people were allowed to actually own handguns......they had guns, they didn't use them to shoot up churches.....so nothing you say has any bearing on law abiding people owning guns....twit.

Yes their gun ownership never reached ridiculous levels like ours. They stopped all the death before it happened.

No.....they had guns, but their culture kept them from shooting up schools....now, with single teenage mothers raising young males, and their culture unable to civilize them, they had 2 attempted school shootings last year......they now have a real problem growing and no way to stop it.

Link? They never had guns at huge ownership levels.

Moron......they had access to owning guns and they didn't use them......that is the point, twit. They had handguns, and they didn't use them for crime or mass shootings..Their gun ban and confiscation didn't change anything...other than to increase their gun murder numbers and escalate their gun crime rate.

Link? they never had ownership levels like ours.

 

[2aguy]

Moron.....Britain had one school shootings before they banned guns.....banning guns didn't change that record....that means that British people who owned guns before the ban weren't using the guns they actually had in their possession to shoot up schools...

However, there were two attempted school shootings in Britain last year, both were stopped by dumb luck......showing you have no idea what you are talking about.

So we have more in a week than they have all year. We need gun control.

Another cop shot today.
High-ranking Chicago cop shot at Thompson Center in Loop

No...we need British criminals....they have guns, they just don't murder police officers....

Yeah Britain and every country with strong gun control. Course our children have no problem getting guns either.

The teenagers in Britain are getting guns now very easily.....as gun crime in London is up 42%, and 23% across the entire country......and one of the school shooters was in grade school.....

Nobody died in a school shooting. We have death regularly.

They the one guy because he posted on social media before the shooting and the other kid changed his mind and called the police on himself...that isn't gun control working, that is pure, dumb luck...

 

[Brain357]

How many in Vegas by just one shooter?

The Vegas shooter, with 2 rifles, firing over 1,000 rounds of ammunition into a tightly packed crowd of over 22,000 people...

58.

The muslim terrorist in Nice, France, with a couple hundred dollar rental truck.....

86.

58 by one shooter. Dangerous weapon. And what is the most killed by a single person with a knife?

Rental Truck....86 people...cost less than one of those rifles......

Can they do that in a church? In a school?

You didn’t answer my question.

They can run people over as they exit the church and as the kids line up for school...moron......

When has that happened? They make barriers for that.

 

[2aguy]

And Britain didn't have church shootings when their people were allowed to actually own handguns......they had guns, they didn't use them to shoot up churches.....so nothing you say has any bearing on law abiding people owning guns....twit.

Yes their gun ownership never reached ridiculous levels like ours. They stopped all the death before it happened.

No.....they had guns, but their culture kept them from shooting up schools....now, with single teenage mothers raising young males, and their culture unable to civilize them, they had 2 attempted school shootings last year......they now have a real problem growing and no way to stop it.

Link? They never had guns at huge ownership levels.

Moron......they had access to owning guns and they didn't use them......that is the point, twit. They had handguns, and they didn't use them for crime or mass shootings..Their gun ban and confiscation didn't change anything...other than to increase their gun murder numbers and escalate their gun crime rate.

Link? they never had ownership levels like ours.

They had guns, moron....and they didn't use them...that means...moron...it wasn't having guns that led to shootings......it was their culture that kept it from happening even when they had easy access to guns.......troll....

 

[Brain357]

So we have more in a week than they have all year. We need gun control.

Another cop shot today.
High-ranking Chicago cop shot at Thompson Center in Loop

No...we need British criminals....they have guns, they just don't murder police officers....

Yeah Britain and every country with strong gun control. Course our children have no problem getting guns either.

The teenagers in Britain are getting guns now very easily.....as gun crime in London is up 42%, and 23% across the entire country......and one of the school shooters was in grade school.....

Nobody died in a school shooting. We have death regularly.

They the one guy because he posted on social media before the shooting and the other kid changed his mind and called the police on himself...that isn't gun control working, that is pure, dumb luck...

We have multiple in one week.

 

[Brain357]

Yes their gun ownership never reached ridiculous levels like ours. They stopped all the death before it happened.

No.....they had guns, but their culture kept them from shooting up schools....now, with single teenage mothers raising young males, and their culture unable to civilize them, they had 2 attempted school shootings last year......they now have a real problem growing and no way to stop it.

Link? They never had guns at huge ownership levels.

Moron......they had access to owning guns and they didn't use them......that is the point, twit. They had handguns, and they didn't use them for crime or mass shootings..Their gun ban and confiscation didn't change anything...other than to increase their gun murder numbers and escalate their gun crime rate.

Link? they never had ownership levels like ours.

They had guns, moron....and they didn't use them...that means...moron...it wasn't having guns that led to shootings......it was their culture that kept it from happening even when they had easy access to guns.......troll....

No they didn’t. Your lies get old.

 

[2aguy]

The Vegas shooter, with 2 rifles, firing over 1,000 rounds of ammunition into a tightly packed crowd of over 22,000 people...

58.

The muslim terrorist in Nice, France, with a couple hundred dollar rental truck.....

86.

58 by one shooter. Dangerous weapon. And what is the most killed by a single person with a knife?

Rental Truck....86 people...cost less than one of those rifles......

Can they do that in a church? In a school?

You didn’t answer my question.

They can run people over as they exit the church and as the kids line up for school...moron......

When has that happened? They make barriers for that.

You mean like in New York where the muslim terrorist ran over and murdered 8 people last year? You simply run people over before they get behind the barriers, moron.....

 

[Brain357]

How many in Vegas by just one shooter?

The Vegas shooter, with 2 rifles, firing over 1,000 rounds of ammunition into a tightly packed crowd of over 22,000 people...

58.

The muslim terrorist in Nice, France, with a couple hundred dollar rental truck.....

86.

58 by one shooter. Dangerous weapon. And what is the most killed by a single person with a knife?

Rental Truck....86 people...cost less than one of those rifles......

Can they do that in a church? In a school?

You didn’t answer my question.

They can run people over as they exit the church and as the kids line up for school...moron......

https://nypost.com/2018/01/02/city-to-ramp-up-traffic-barriers-after-terror-attack/

 

[Brain357]

58 by one shooter. Dangerous weapon. And what is the most killed by a single person with a knife?

Rental Truck....86 people...cost less than one of those rifles......

Can they do that in a church? In a school?

You didn’t answer my question.

They can run people over as they exit the church and as the kids line up for school...moron......

When has that happened? They make barriers for that.

You mean like in New York where the muslim terrorist ran over and murdered 8 people last year? You simply run people over before they get behind the barriers, moron.....

https://nypost.com/2018/01/02/city-to-ramp-up-traffic-barriers-after-terror-attack/

 

[Wry Catcher]

The entire left-wing narrative about firearms is a lie. It’s all built on a political agenda rather than on data.

The report states that investigators posing online as gun buyers who were not legally able to purchase a firearm were completely unsuccessful when attempting to purchase firearms from private sellers. In fact, the report states that investigators tried 72 times — and each time they failed.

That’s right - 0% of the ATF investigators were able to make an illegal purchase. Not even one.

Investigators test how well gun laws work online — and find shocking results that undermine liberals

You really lack the ability to write a convincing argument to confirm your narrative. "back Alley" gun sales maybe as lethal as "back Alley" abortions. Private sales, unsecured guns and straw purchases allow more guns into hands of more persons who legally cannot own, possess or even have in their custody and control a firearm.

And you cannot sell a gun to a felon...that is the law already.....that means that no matter who is selling the gun...the felon already knows they can't buy, own or carry the gun....

And.....since you are such a slow person......we already have laws that state that if we catch a criminal in mere possession of a gun, we can already arrest them.

So....since you don't know what you are talking about...we already have all the laws we need to deal with straw buyers, and illegal gun sales........and the wonder of it? We can already do all of this without bothering law abiding gun owners with unnecessary paperwork or felony traps......

My response was based on the OP, to wit:

"That’s right - 0% of the ATF investigators were
able to make an illegal purchase. Not even one."
​

Your biases and love for guns is not only perverted, it has become a road block to your ability to think (cheer up, I'm implying you did think once upon a time)

 

[Brain357]

He didn’t make it. Thats 5 law enforcement dead in less than a week. Thanks gun culture you continue to take our best and bravest.
Chicago police commander shot to death at Thompson Center in Loop

Law enforcement needs to demand gun control.

 

[Skull Pilot]

The LLN has nothing to do with correlation or causation

Yes, it does.

No it doesn't.

LLN is about probability not cause and effect.

Yes, it does. Large numbers of persons with guns, affects probabilities.

Probabilities are neither causes nor effects.

All the LLN does is state that the more times you run an experiment the closer you will come to the expected result.

So tell me what is the expected number of murders?

You seem to be confused about what murder rates are.

if the murder rate in one state is higher than another it has nothing to do with how many people live in each state if the murder rate is expressed in the same ratio for both states.

My understanding of the law of large numbers, is that gun related crimes will increase with more persons using them.

No only with more piece of shit criminals using them.

Crime of any kind increases when more people decide to break the law. That has nothing to do with the law of large numbers