The definitive guide to the 2nd Amendment

[danielpalos]

Why wouldn't the law of large numbers apply?

The LLN has nothing to do with correlation or causation

Yes, it does.

No it doesn't.

LLN is about probability not cause and effect.

Yes, it does. Large numbers of persons with guns, affects probabilities.

No it doesn't.

If that were true NH would have a higher murder rate than RI but it has a lower murder rate even though it has a higher population than RI and very lax gun laws

special pleading is simply that. your view should hold true in Chicago.

 

[Brain357]

So gun ownership for you is more important than the lives of children and law enforcement. What a turd you are.

Unlike you I know that me giving up my guns will have absolutely no effect on crime because I do not commit crimes and neither do 99.99% of legal gun owners

I also know that mass shootings only account for 1% of all murders so in all honesty it's not that big of a problem.

Yes I care about the lives of children just like any real man would.

It's creepy that you "care" so much about other people's kids

That said a lot more kids die every day from other causes than die in school shootings

Any real man would want to save the lives of children.

Me giving up my guns will not save anyone's life.

They don’t have regular school shootings where there is strong gun control. Cops aren’t killed regularly either.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

Unlike you I know that me giving up my guns will have absolutely no effect on crime because I do not commit crimes and neither do 99.99% of legal gun owners

I also know that mass shootings only account for 1% of all murders so in all honesty it's not that big of a problem.

Yes I care about the lives of children just like any real man would.

It's creepy that you "care" so much about other people's kids

That said a lot more kids die every day from other causes than die in school shootings

Any real man would want to save the lives of children.

Me giving up my guns will not save anyone's life.

They don’t have regular school shootings where there is strong gun control. Cops aren’t killed regularly either.

Oh really. How about we look at just Texas

Gunman Kills at Least 26 in Attack on Rural Texas Church
He killed 26 in a Church. What was his weapon of choice? An AR-15 deritive.

University of Texas tower shooting - Wikipedia
He had 3 rifles he used from the Tower. A Model 700 6mm, M-1 30 cal Carbine with at least 4 clips, A 35 cal pump and a Shotgun plus handguns. All were purchased legally. Before he came to the Campus, he had already killed his Mother and Wife. From the Tower, he killed 13 and injured 31. He was already diagnosed as a problem because he sought help. Of course, he was shot dead. In the Autopsy, they found he had a brain tumor that might explain his actions. Yet, no laws were in place to prevent him to buy those weapons, clips and ammo. Had there been a law that his councelor had to follow about putting him the no buy list this wouldn't have happened at nearly the body count. Let's face it, a knife or a baseball bat kills much slower

And Texas has nearly the lax laws that Nevada does. And we know how that state has worked out lately.


.

 

[2aguy]

Unlike you I know that me giving up my guns will have absolutely no effect on crime because I do not commit crimes and neither do 99.99% of legal gun owners

I also know that mass shootings only account for 1% of all murders so in all honesty it's not that big of a problem.

Yes I care about the lives of children just like any real man would.

It's creepy that you "care" so much about other people's kids

That said a lot more kids die every day from other causes than die in school shootings

Any real man would want to save the lives of children.

Me giving up my guns will not save anyone's life.

They don’t have regular school shootings where there is strong gun control. Cops aren’t killed regularly either.

Moron.....Britain had one school shootings before they banned guns.....banning guns didn't change that record....that means that British people who owned guns before the ban weren't using the guns they actually had in their possession to shoot up schools...

However, there were two attempted school shootings in Britain last year, both were stopped by dumb luck......showing you have no idea what you are talking about.

 

[2aguy]

Yes I care about the lives of children just like any real man would.

It's creepy that you "care" so much about other people's kids

That said a lot more kids die every day from other causes than die in school shootings

Any real man would want to save the lives of children.

Me giving up my guns will not save anyone's life.

They don’t have regular school shootings where there is strong gun control. Cops aren’t killed regularly either.

Oh really. How about we look at just Texas

Gunman Kills at Least 26 in Attack on Rural Texas Church
He killed 26 in a Church. What was his weapon of choice? An AR-15 deritive.

University of Texas tower shooting - Wikipedia
He had 3 rifles he used from the Tower. A Model 700 6mm, M-1 30 cal Carbine with at least 4 clips, A 35 cal pump and a Shotgun plus handguns. All were purchased legally. Before he came to the Campus, he had already killed his Mother and Wife. From the Tower, he killed 13 and injured 31. He was already diagnosed as a problem because he sought help. Of course, he was shot dead. In the Autopsy, they found he had a brain tumor that might explain his actions. Yet, no laws were in place to prevent him to buy those weapons, clips and ammo. Had there been a law that his councelor had to follow about putting him the no buy list this wouldn't have happened at nearly the body count. Let's face it, a knife or a baseball bat kills much slower

And Texas has nearly the lax laws that Nevada does. And we know how that state has worked out lately.


.

\
And the church shooter was stopped by an NRA instructor with his own, private AR-15 civilian self defense rifle, saving at least 26 lives and likely a lot more had the shooter been allowed to leave to continue his killing.........and the texas tower shooter was pinned down by students who brought their hunting rifles to the Texas campus.....

 

[Brain357]

Yes I care about the lives of children just like any real man would.

It's creepy that you "care" so much about other people's kids

That said a lot more kids die every day from other causes than die in school shootings

Any real man would want to save the lives of children.

Me giving up my guns will not save anyone's life.

They don’t have regular school shootings where there is strong gun control. Cops aren’t killed regularly either.

Moron.....Britain had one school shootings before they banned guns.....banning guns didn't change that record....that means that British people who owned guns before the ban weren't using the guns they actually had in their possession to shoot up schools...

However, there were two attempted school shootings in Britain last year, both were stopped by dumb luck......showing you have no idea what you are talking about.

So we have more in a week than they have all year. We need gun control.

Another cop shot today.
High-ranking Chicago cop shot at Thompson Center in Loop

 

[2aguy]

Yes I care about the lives of children just like any real man would.

It's creepy that you "care" so much about other people's kids

That said a lot more kids die every day from other causes than die in school shootings

Any real man would want to save the lives of children.

Me giving up my guns will not save anyone's life.

They don’t have regular school shootings where there is strong gun control. Cops aren’t killed regularly either.

Oh really. How about we look at just Texas

Gunman Kills at Least 26 in Attack on Rural Texas Church
He killed 26 in a Church. What was his weapon of choice? An AR-15 deritive.

University of Texas tower shooting - Wikipedia
He had 3 rifles he used from the Tower. A Model 700 6mm, M-1 30 cal Carbine with at least 4 clips, A 35 cal pump and a Shotgun plus handguns. All were purchased legally. Before he came to the Campus, he had already killed his Mother and Wife. From the Tower, he killed 13 and injured 31. He was already diagnosed as a problem because he sought help. Of course, he was shot dead. In the Autopsy, they found he had a brain tumor that might explain his actions. Yet, no laws were in place to prevent him to buy those weapons, clips and ammo. Had there been a law that his councelor had to follow about putting him the no buy list this wouldn't have happened at nearly the body count. Let's face it, a knife or a baseball bat kills much slower

And Texas has nearly the lax laws that Nevada does. And we know how that state has worked out lately.


.

And more people are murdered with knives each and every year than are murdered with rifles of any kind, let alone AR-15 civilian and police rifles.....

So is it the number of dead that is the issue? Than you should be more worried about knives, clubs and bare hands.....since they are used to murder more people every single year....

Expanded Homicide Data Table 4

Rifles....374

knives....1,604

blunt objects....472

bare hands....656

 

[Brain357]

It's creepy that you "care" so much about other people's kids

That said a lot more kids die every day from other causes than die in school shootings

Any real man would want to save the lives of children.

Me giving up my guns will not save anyone's life.

They don’t have regular school shootings where there is strong gun control. Cops aren’t killed regularly either.

Oh really. How about we look at just Texas

Gunman Kills at Least 26 in Attack on Rural Texas Church
He killed 26 in a Church. What was his weapon of choice? An AR-15 deritive.

University of Texas tower shooting - Wikipedia
He had 3 rifles he used from the Tower. A Model 700 6mm, M-1 30 cal Carbine with at least 4 clips, A 35 cal pump and a Shotgun plus handguns. All were purchased legally. Before he came to the Campus, he had already killed his Mother and Wife. From the Tower, he killed 13 and injured 31. He was already diagnosed as a problem because he sought help. Of course, he was shot dead. In the Autopsy, they found he had a brain tumor that might explain his actions. Yet, no laws were in place to prevent him to buy those weapons, clips and ammo. Had there been a law that his councelor had to follow about putting him the no buy list this wouldn't have happened at nearly the body count. Let's face it, a knife or a baseball bat kills much slower

And Texas has nearly the lax laws that Nevada does. And we know how that state has worked out lately.


.

\
And the church shooter was stopped by an NRA instructor with his own, private AR-15 civilian self defense rifle, saving at least 26 lives and likely a lot more had the shooter been allowed to leave to continue his killing.........and the texas tower shooter was pinned down by students who brought their hunting rifles to the Texas campus.....

Stopped after many dead. Countries with strong gun control don’t have regular church shootings.

 

[Brain357]

It's creepy that you "care" so much about other people's kids

That said a lot more kids die every day from other causes than die in school shootings

Any real man would want to save the lives of children.

Me giving up my guns will not save anyone's life.

They don’t have regular school shootings where there is strong gun control. Cops aren’t killed regularly either.

Oh really. How about we look at just Texas

Gunman Kills at Least 26 in Attack on Rural Texas Church
He killed 26 in a Church. What was his weapon of choice? An AR-15 deritive.

University of Texas tower shooting - Wikipedia
He had 3 rifles he used from the Tower. A Model 700 6mm, M-1 30 cal Carbine with at least 4 clips, A 35 cal pump and a Shotgun plus handguns. All were purchased legally. Before he came to the Campus, he had already killed his Mother and Wife. From the Tower, he killed 13 and injured 31. He was already diagnosed as a problem because he sought help. Of course, he was shot dead. In the Autopsy, they found he had a brain tumor that might explain his actions. Yet, no laws were in place to prevent him to buy those weapons, clips and ammo. Had there been a law that his councelor had to follow about putting him the no buy list this wouldn't have happened at nearly the body count. Let's face it, a knife or a baseball bat kills much slower

And Texas has nearly the lax laws that Nevada does. And we know how that state has worked out lately.


.

And more people are murdered with knives each and every year than are murdered with rifles of any kind, let alone AR-15 civilian and police rifles.....

So is it the number of dead that is the issue? Than you should be more worried about knives, clubs and bare hands.....since they are used to murder more people every single year....

Expanded Homicide Data Table 4

Rifles....374

knives....1,604

blunt objects....472

bare hands....656

How many in Vegas by just one shooter?

 

[2aguy]

It's creepy that you "care" so much about other people's kids

That said a lot more kids die every day from other causes than die in school shootings

Any real man would want to save the lives of children.

Me giving up my guns will not save anyone's life.

They don’t have regular school shootings where there is strong gun control. Cops aren’t killed regularly either.

Moron.....Britain had one school shootings before they banned guns.....banning guns didn't change that record....that means that British people who owned guns before the ban weren't using the guns they actually had in their possession to shoot up schools...

However, there were two attempted school shootings in Britain last year, both were stopped by dumb luck......showing you have no idea what you are talking about.

So we have more in a week than they have all year. We need gun control.

Another cop shot today.
High-ranking Chicago cop shot at Thompson Center in Loop

No...we need British criminals....they have guns, they just don't murder police officers....

 

[2aguy]

Any real man would want to save the lives of children.

Me giving up my guns will not save anyone's life.

They don’t have regular school shootings where there is strong gun control. Cops aren’t killed regularly either.

Oh really. How about we look at just Texas

Gunman Kills at Least 26 in Attack on Rural Texas Church
He killed 26 in a Church. What was his weapon of choice? An AR-15 deritive.

University of Texas tower shooting - Wikipedia
He had 3 rifles he used from the Tower. A Model 700 6mm, M-1 30 cal Carbine with at least 4 clips, A 35 cal pump and a Shotgun plus handguns. All were purchased legally. Before he came to the Campus, he had already killed his Mother and Wife. From the Tower, he killed 13 and injured 31. He was already diagnosed as a problem because he sought help. Of course, he was shot dead. In the Autopsy, they found he had a brain tumor that might explain his actions. Yet, no laws were in place to prevent him to buy those weapons, clips and ammo. Had there been a law that his councelor had to follow about putting him the no buy list this wouldn't have happened at nearly the body count. Let's face it, a knife or a baseball bat kills much slower

And Texas has nearly the lax laws that Nevada does. And we know how that state has worked out lately.


.

\
And the church shooter was stopped by an NRA instructor with his own, private AR-15 civilian self defense rifle, saving at least 26 lives and likely a lot more had the shooter been allowed to leave to continue his killing.........and the texas tower shooter was pinned down by students who brought their hunting rifles to the Texas campus.....

Stopped after many dead. Countries with strong gun control don’t have regular church shootings.

And Britain didn't have church shootings when their people were allowed to actually own handguns......they had guns, they didn't use them to shoot up churches.....so nothing you say has any bearing on law abiding people owning guns....twit.

 

[2aguy]

Any real man would want to save the lives of children.

Me giving up my guns will not save anyone's life.

They don’t have regular school shootings where there is strong gun control. Cops aren’t killed regularly either.

Oh really. How about we look at just Texas

Gunman Kills at Least 26 in Attack on Rural Texas Church
He killed 26 in a Church. What was his weapon of choice? An AR-15 deritive.

University of Texas tower shooting - Wikipedia
He had 3 rifles he used from the Tower. A Model 700 6mm, M-1 30 cal Carbine with at least 4 clips, A 35 cal pump and a Shotgun plus handguns. All were purchased legally. Before he came to the Campus, he had already killed his Mother and Wife. From the Tower, he killed 13 and injured 31. He was already diagnosed as a problem because he sought help. Of course, he was shot dead. In the Autopsy, they found he had a brain tumor that might explain his actions. Yet, no laws were in place to prevent him to buy those weapons, clips and ammo. Had there been a law that his councelor had to follow about putting him the no buy list this wouldn't have happened at nearly the body count. Let's face it, a knife or a baseball bat kills much slower

And Texas has nearly the lax laws that Nevada does. And we know how that state has worked out lately.


.

And more people are murdered with knives each and every year than are murdered with rifles of any kind, let alone AR-15 civilian and police rifles.....

So is it the number of dead that is the issue? Than you should be more worried about knives, clubs and bare hands.....since they are used to murder more people every single year....

Expanded Homicide Data Table 4

Rifles....374

knives....1,604

blunt objects....472

bare hands....656

How many in Vegas by just one shooter?

The Vegas shooter, with 2 rifles, firing over 1,000 rounds of ammunition into a tightly packed crowd of over 22,000 people...

58.

The muslim terrorist in Nice, France, with a couple hundred dollar rental truck.....

86.

 

[2aguy]

Yes I care about the lives of children just like any real man would.

It's creepy that you "care" so much about other people's kids

That said a lot more kids die every day from other causes than die in school shootings

Any real man would want to save the lives of children.

Me giving up my guns will not save anyone's life.

They don’t have regular school shootings where there is strong gun control. Cops aren’t killed regularly either.

Oh really. How about we look at just Texas

Gunman Kills at Least 26 in Attack on Rural Texas Church
He killed 26 in a Church. What was his weapon of choice? An AR-15 deritive.

University of Texas tower shooting - Wikipedia
He had 3 rifles he used from the Tower. A Model 700 6mm, M-1 30 cal Carbine with at least 4 clips, A 35 cal pump and a Shotgun plus handguns. All were purchased legally. Before he came to the Campus, he had already killed his Mother and Wife. From the Tower, he killed 13 and injured 31. He was already diagnosed as a problem because he sought help. Of course, he was shot dead. In the Autopsy, they found he had a brain tumor that might explain his actions. Yet, no laws were in place to prevent him to buy those weapons, clips and ammo. Had there been a law that his councelor had to follow about putting him the no buy list this wouldn't have happened at nearly the body count. Let's face it, a knife or a baseball bat kills much slower

And Texas has nearly the lax laws that Nevada does. And we know how that state has worked out lately.


.

The Texas tower shooter was pinned down by students with their own rifles....that they had on campus with them...genius...

The Armed Civilian Who Helped Stop UT’s Tower Sniper 50 Years Ago

“You’re damn right we’re playing for keeps,” Martinez later recalled answering.

“Well, you better deputize me,” the man said.

Then, it was clear. The man with Martinez wasn’t a plainclothes officer. He was a civilian — Allen Crum, one of many who armed themselves on Aug. 1, 1966, in an effort to stop the first mass shooting at an American university.

Regular people from all over Austin had grabbed their guns from their trucks or homes that day and rushed to campus to fire at Whitman from the ground. Their bullets pelted the tower, kicking up clouds of limestone. At times, witnesses said, the campus felt like a war zone, but with armed frat boys and hunting enthusiasts instead of soldiers.


=============================

Eye witness accounts of civilians with rifles stopping whitman...

96 Minutes


CLIF DRUMMOND was a senior and the student body president. He is a high-tech executive in Austin.
Students with deer rifles were leaning up against telephone poles, using the pole, which is rather narrow, as their shield. And they were firing like crazy back at the Tower.

FORREST PREECE was a junior. A retired advertising executive, he lives in Austin.
I saw two guys in white shirts and slacks running across the lawn of the Pi Phi house, hustling up to its porch with rifles at the ready. Someone was yelling, “Keep down, man. Keep down!”

.
BILL HELMER: I remember thinking, “All we need is a bunch of idiots running around with rifles.” But what they did turned out to be brilliant. Once he could no longer lean over the edge and fire, he was much more limited in what he could do. He had to shoot through those drain spouts, or he had to pop up real fast and then dive down again. That’s why he did most of his damage in the first twenty minutes.

 

[2aguy]

Yes I care about the lives of children just like any real man would.

It's creepy that you "care" so much about other people's kids

That said a lot more kids die every day from other causes than die in school shootings

Any real man would want to save the lives of children.

Me giving up my guns will not save anyone's life.

They don’t have regular school shootings where there is strong gun control. Cops aren’t killed regularly either.

Oh really. How about we look at just Texas

Gunman Kills at Least 26 in Attack on Rural Texas Church
He killed 26 in a Church. What was his weapon of choice? An AR-15 deritive.

University of Texas tower shooting - Wikipedia
He had 3 rifles he used from the Tower. A Model 700 6mm, M-1 30 cal Carbine with at least 4 clips, A 35 cal pump and a Shotgun plus handguns. All were purchased legally. Before he came to the Campus, he had already killed his Mother and Wife. From the Tower, he killed 13 and injured 31. He was already diagnosed as a problem because he sought help. Of course, he was shot dead. In the Autopsy, they found he had a brain tumor that might explain his actions. Yet, no laws were in place to prevent him to buy those weapons, clips and ammo. Had there been a law that his councelor had to follow about putting him the no buy list this wouldn't have happened at nearly the body count. Let's face it, a knife or a baseball bat kills much slower

And Texas has nearly the lax laws that Nevada does. And we know how that state has worked out lately.


.

\Again.......knives have murdered more people than all rifles combined....so should we expect you to say we don't need knives as civilians?

The total number of people murdered in mass public shootings.....since 1982, doesn't even come close to the number of people murdered with knives every single year in this country.......each and every year...

So please, feel free to start a thread on banning and confiscating dinner cutlery.....

US mass shootings, 1982-2018: Data from Mother Jones’ investigation


Total murders by mass public shooters...1982-2017

795


Moron...knife murders.....2009-2013.....

From the FBI homicide table 8

2009----1,836
2010----1,933
2011----1,611
2012---1,769
2013---1.956

Rifle murder....

2009---351
2010---367
2011---332
2012---298
2013---285

 

[2aguy]

The entire left-wing narrative about firearms is a lie. It’s all built on a political agenda rather than on data.

The report states that investigators posing online as gun buyers who were not legally able to purchase a firearm were completely unsuccessful when attempting to purchase firearms from private sellers. In fact, the report states that investigators tried 72 times — and each time they failed.

That’s right - 0% of the ATF investigators were able to make an illegal purchase. Not even one.

Investigators test how well gun laws work online — and find shocking results that undermine liberals

You really lack the ability to write a convincing argument to confirm your narrative. "back Alley" gun sales maybe as lethal as "back Alley" abortions. Private sales, unsecured guns and straw purchases allow more guns into hands of more persons who legally cannot own, possess or even have in their custody and control a firearm.

And you cannot sell a gun to a felon...that is the law already.....that means that no matter who is selling the gun...the felon already knows they can't buy, own or carry the gun....

And.....since you are such a slow person......we already have laws that state that if we catch a criminal in mere possession of a gun, we can already arrest them.

So....since you don't know what you are talking about...we already have all the laws we need to deal with straw buyers, and illegal gun sales........and the wonder of it? We can already do all of this without bothering law abiding gun owners with unnecessary paperwork or felony traps......

 

[Brain357]

Me giving up my guns will not save anyone's life.

They don’t have regular school shootings where there is strong gun control. Cops aren’t killed regularly either.

Oh really. How about we look at just Texas

Gunman Kills at Least 26 in Attack on Rural Texas Church
He killed 26 in a Church. What was his weapon of choice? An AR-15 deritive.

University of Texas tower shooting - Wikipedia
He had 3 rifles he used from the Tower. A Model 700 6mm, M-1 30 cal Carbine with at least 4 clips, A 35 cal pump and a Shotgun plus handguns. All were purchased legally. Before he came to the Campus, he had already killed his Mother and Wife. From the Tower, he killed 13 and injured 31. He was already diagnosed as a problem because he sought help. Of course, he was shot dead. In the Autopsy, they found he had a brain tumor that might explain his actions. Yet, no laws were in place to prevent him to buy those weapons, clips and ammo. Had there been a law that his councelor had to follow about putting him the no buy list this wouldn't have happened at nearly the body count. Let's face it, a knife or a baseball bat kills much slower

And Texas has nearly the lax laws that Nevada does. And we know how that state has worked out lately.


.

\
And the church shooter was stopped by an NRA instructor with his own, private AR-15 civilian self defense rifle, saving at least 26 lives and likely a lot more had the shooter been allowed to leave to continue his killing.........and the texas tower shooter was pinned down by students who brought their hunting rifles to the Texas campus.....

Stopped after many dead. Countries with strong gun control don’t have regular church shootings.

And Britain didn't have church shootings when their people were allowed to actually own handguns......they had guns, they didn't use them to shoot up churches.....so nothing you say has any bearing on law abiding people owning guns....twit.

Yes their gun ownership never reached ridiculous levels like ours. They stopped all the death before it happened.

 

[Brain357]

Me giving up my guns will not save anyone's life.

They don’t have regular school shootings where there is strong gun control. Cops aren’t killed regularly either.

Oh really. How about we look at just Texas

Gunman Kills at Least 26 in Attack on Rural Texas Church
He killed 26 in a Church. What was his weapon of choice? An AR-15 deritive.

University of Texas tower shooting - Wikipedia
He had 3 rifles he used from the Tower. A Model 700 6mm, M-1 30 cal Carbine with at least 4 clips, A 35 cal pump and a Shotgun plus handguns. All were purchased legally. Before he came to the Campus, he had already killed his Mother and Wife. From the Tower, he killed 13 and injured 31. He was already diagnosed as a problem because he sought help. Of course, he was shot dead. In the Autopsy, they found he had a brain tumor that might explain his actions. Yet, no laws were in place to prevent him to buy those weapons, clips and ammo. Had there been a law that his councelor had to follow about putting him the no buy list this wouldn't have happened at nearly the body count. Let's face it, a knife or a baseball bat kills much slower

And Texas has nearly the lax laws that Nevada does. And we know how that state has worked out lately.


.

And more people are murdered with knives each and every year than are murdered with rifles of any kind, let alone AR-15 civilian and police rifles.....

So is it the number of dead that is the issue? Than you should be more worried about knives, clubs and bare hands.....since they are used to murder more people every single year....

Expanded Homicide Data Table 4

Rifles....374

knives....1,604

blunt objects....472

bare hands....656

How many in Vegas by just one shooter?

The Vegas shooter, with 2 rifles, firing over 1,000 rounds of ammunition into a tightly packed crowd of over 22,000 people...

58.

The muslim terrorist in Nice, France, with a couple hundred dollar rental truck.....

86.

58 by one shooter. Dangerous weapon. And what is the most killed by a single person with a knife?

 

[2aguy]

So what?

You cannot prove it increased as a direct result of the concealed carry laws.

The crime in WI increased within the bounds of the increased in crime in the country as a whole so there is a pretty good chance it would have increased if the CC law was not passed since we saw an increase across the board.

Well with concealed carry at it's highest, violent crime has been going up.

So the fuck what?

Even the WI DA says there is no proof that any rise in crime was caused by the concealed carry law.

And if CCW did really cause crime then why is it that crime has been on the decline for more than 25 years and even taking into account the slight rise in crime recently both the crime and the murder rates are at a 30 year low even though more people than ever have concealed carry permits ?

Violent crime has increased now as concealed carry had increased. Crime decreased after Clinton crime bill and gun control.

Even the WI DA says there is no proof that any rise in crime was a direct result of the concealed carry laws

So until you can actually prove a causal link between the rise in crime in WI and it's CCW law you are as usual just flapping your gums.

you need to read this

Correlation does not imply causation

That being said, you also can not prove that it has reduced criminal activity either like some claim. Here is my take on open carry and the Criminal. If I were to rob a store, I will just rob it. Afterall, that's all I am there for. I will probably not shoot up the place if they cooperate and give me what I demand at gun point. Robber isn't given the same importance by law enforcement that murder is. But let me enter and see that one person wearing that gun on their hip, that is my first target. And I am probably better at it than John Q is with his. Now that I just killed one person, I just might go into the old "No Witnesses" mode and try and shoot everyone else. The Open Carry person does not even have to draw his weapon. On the Other hand, the CCW does have the option not to let the criminal know he is armed and can elect NOT to draw the weapon unless he feels that it's entered into a life or death situation.

Wrong......you have no idea what the criminal intends when they are robbing a store....

8 people murdered in Brown's Chicken robbery..after they had the money....



Brown's Chicken massacre - Wikipedia

Most criminals are not good with their guns.....that is just a bad guess on your part, since most criminals can't legally buy, own or carry a gun...which means they can't go to a legitimate range to practice.....

 

[Brain357]

Any real man would want to save the lives of children.

Me giving up my guns will not save anyone's life.

They don’t have regular school shootings where there is strong gun control. Cops aren’t killed regularly either.

Moron.....Britain had one school shootings before they banned guns.....banning guns didn't change that record....that means that British people who owned guns before the ban weren't using the guns they actually had in their possession to shoot up schools...

However, there were two attempted school shootings in Britain last year, both were stopped by dumb luck......showing you have no idea what you are talking about.

So we have more in a week than they have all year. We need gun control.

Another cop shot today.
High-ranking Chicago cop shot at Thompson Center in Loop

No...we need British criminals....they have guns, they just don't murder police officers....

Yeah Britain and every country with strong gun control. Course our children have no problem getting guns either.

 

[2aguy]

They don’t have regular school shootings where there is strong gun control. Cops aren’t killed regularly either.

Oh really. How about we look at just Texas

Gunman Kills at Least 26 in Attack on Rural Texas Church
He killed 26 in a Church. What was his weapon of choice? An AR-15 deritive.

University of Texas tower shooting - Wikipedia
He had 3 rifles he used from the Tower. A Model 700 6mm, M-1 30 cal Carbine with at least 4 clips, A 35 cal pump and a Shotgun plus handguns. All were purchased legally. Before he came to the Campus, he had already killed his Mother and Wife. From the Tower, he killed 13 and injured 31. He was already diagnosed as a problem because he sought help. Of course, he was shot dead. In the Autopsy, they found he had a brain tumor that might explain his actions. Yet, no laws were in place to prevent him to buy those weapons, clips and ammo. Had there been a law that his councelor had to follow about putting him the no buy list this wouldn't have happened at nearly the body count. Let's face it, a knife or a baseball bat kills much slower

And Texas has nearly the lax laws that Nevada does. And we know how that state has worked out lately.


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And the church shooter was stopped by an NRA instructor with his own, private AR-15 civilian self defense rifle, saving at least 26 lives and likely a lot more had the shooter been allowed to leave to continue his killing.........and the texas tower shooter was pinned down by students who brought their hunting rifles to the Texas campus.....

Stopped after many dead. Countries with strong gun control don’t have regular church shootings.

And Britain didn't have church shootings when their people were allowed to actually own handguns......they had guns, they didn't use them to shoot up churches.....so nothing you say has any bearing on law abiding people owning guns....twit.

Yes their gun ownership never reached ridiculous levels like ours. They stopped all the death before it happened.

No.....they had guns, but their culture kept them from shooting up schools....now, with single teenage mothers raising young males, and their culture unable to civilize them, they had 2 attempted school shootings last year......they now have a real problem growing and no way to stop it.