The Dems won’t let the collusion lie die.

[Oldstyle]

Did you want to provide actual PROOF that a FISA warrant was issued on Carter Page back in 2013? Or did you want to continue to post what 3 extremely biased liberal media outlets put out as a narrative without any proof? You're a bit a sleaze...aren't you, Dudmuck!

Its reported by justsecurity, which has least biased rating.

The actual report on this is WSJ, which has a right-center rating.
Calling wall street journal "liberal media" is comical at best.

You've just repeated the same narrative by the same sources...reported on by another source! Once again...DO YOU HAVE ANY PROOF WHATSOEVER THAT A FISA WARRANT WAS ISSUED ON CARTER PAGE BACK IN 2013!!! If so...provide it now!

On Feb. 2, 2018, FOX News’ Dana Perino said, “if Carter Page is under a FISA warrant starting in 2013. You have to go to the FISA court every 90 days in order to keep up that warrant. We don’t know if there was a lapse in the warrant between 2013 and 2015.”

Reports: Carter Page Was Subject to FISA Warrant in 2013/2014 - Just Security

Once again...IF YOU HAVE ANY PROOF AT ALL THAT CARTER PAGE WAS UNDER A FISA WARRANT BACK IN 2013 THEN PROVIDE THAT PROOF! If you don't...then stop repeating the same unproven bullshit that Dudmuck couldn't back up!

Just the fact that wall street journal has this article up, and that its still up, its evidence enough. Along with many other reputable news sites citing that WSJ article.

If the FBI didn't have a FISA warrant on Page in 2013, they would have been grossly incompetent.

So unsubstantiated articles from liberal media outlets and an article in the Wall Street Journal reporting on those articles in those liberal media outlets somehow constitute "proof"? The FBI couldn't have cared less about Carter Page back in 2013! He only became important when the Obama Administration could use him to spy on the Trump campaign years later!

As for what makes the FBI "grossly incompetent"? Allowing high level officials at the FBI to use the power of their positions to try and affect a US Presidential election is what is grossly incompetent! Someone in the Bureau should have blown the whistle on what Comey, Page, McCabe and Strozk were doing! It disgusts me that nobody had the backbone to call them on the crap they were pulling!

 

[Care4all]

I view this collusion crap in the same way I looked upon the birther issue. With the left's media much more powerful then the right's, Democrats just have been able to play the game better. I also believe Trump's sensitivity and inability to ignore the silliness also brings shame to the Democrats for such toying with the man.

Maybe I have been around in life longer than you 2cents but the Democrats, have never ever ever, have played the political game better than Republicans, at least not in my lifetime or the past 30 years... they do not have the mechanisms to spread rumors like the Birther claim was, and keep it alive for 8 years, or the Benghazi claim, and keep it alive for a near decade.... Democratic politicians are weak, compared to the viciousness and networking of spreading lies that the Republicans use.... R's go for the jugular... the D's whimper around and try to be PC.... imho...

 

[dudmuck]

Its reported by justsecurity, which has least biased rating.

The actual report on this is WSJ, which has a right-center rating.
Calling wall street journal "liberal media" is comical at best.

You've just repeated the same narrative by the same sources...reported on by another source! Once again...DO YOU HAVE ANY PROOF WHATSOEVER THAT A FISA WARRANT WAS ISSUED ON CARTER PAGE BACK IN 2013!!! If so...provide it now!

On Feb. 2, 2018, FOX News’ Dana Perino said, “if Carter Page is under a FISA warrant starting in 2013. You have to go to the FISA court every 90 days in order to keep up that warrant. We don’t know if there was a lapse in the warrant between 2013 and 2015.”

Reports: Carter Page Was Subject to FISA Warrant in 2013/2014 - Just Security

Once again...IF YOU HAVE ANY PROOF AT ALL THAT CARTER PAGE WAS UNDER A FISA WARRANT BACK IN 2013 THEN PROVIDE THAT PROOF! If you don't...then stop repeating the same unproven bullshit that Dudmuck couldn't back up!

Just the fact that wall street journal has this article up, and that its still up, its evidence enough. Along with many other reputable news sites citing that WSJ article.

If the FBI didn't have a FISA warrant on Page in 2013, they would have been grossly incompetent.

So unsubstantiated articles from liberal media outlets and an article in the Wall Street Journal reporting on those articles in those liberal media outlets somehow constitute "proof"? The FBI couldn't have cared less about Carter Page back in 2013! He only became important when the Obama Administration could use him to spy on the Trump campaign years later!

As for what makes the FBI "grossly incompetent"? Allowing high level officials at the FBI to use the power of their positions to try and affect a US Presidential election is what is grossly incompetent! Someone in the Bureau should have blown the whistle on what Comey, Page, McCabe and Strozk were doing! It disgusts me that nobody had the backbone to call them on the crap they were pulling!

Simple truth is this:
Page had piqued the interest of FBI investigators long before the Trump campaign, owing to his contacts with the Russian government and energy sector. For example, his 2013 contacts with Russian intelligence operatives who promised him business connections led to the FBI obtaining a FISA order against him in 2014.

 

[Care4all]

The FBI couldn't have cared less about Carter Page back in 2013! He only became important when the Obama Administration could use him to spy on the Trump campaign years later!

Simply not true, AT ALL.

but you need to believe that, to believe the bull crap story that they only spied on Page to spy on the Trump Campaign.

Page had already left the campaign

Page had never even met Donald Trump, though he has been trying to meet him for some years now, and still has not met him.

Page, after he had left the campaign, 3 weeks before the election, would not be a good choice for the FBI to choose out of thin air, to spy on Candidate Trump or the campaign at that point.... it was all over but the shouting.

You are being sold a bill of goods, on that.... imo.

 

[Oldstyle]

You've just repeated the same narrative by the same sources...reported on by another source! Once again...DO YOU HAVE ANY PROOF WHATSOEVER THAT A FISA WARRANT WAS ISSUED ON CARTER PAGE BACK IN 2013!!! If so...provide it now!

On Feb. 2, 2018, FOX News’ Dana Perino said, “if Carter Page is under a FISA warrant starting in 2013. You have to go to the FISA court every 90 days in order to keep up that warrant. We don’t know if there was a lapse in the warrant between 2013 and 2015.”

Reports: Carter Page Was Subject to FISA Warrant in 2013/2014 - Just Security

Once again...IF YOU HAVE ANY PROOF AT ALL THAT CARTER PAGE WAS UNDER A FISA WARRANT BACK IN 2013 THEN PROVIDE THAT PROOF! If you don't...then stop repeating the same unproven bullshit that Dudmuck couldn't back up!

Just the fact that wall street journal has this article up, and that its still up, its evidence enough. Along with many other reputable news sites citing that WSJ article.

If the FBI didn't have a FISA warrant on Page in 2013, they would have been grossly incompetent.

So unsubstantiated articles from liberal media outlets and an article in the Wall Street Journal reporting on those articles in those liberal media outlets somehow constitute "proof"? The FBI couldn't have cared less about Carter Page back in 2013! He only became important when the Obama Administration could use him to spy on the Trump campaign years later!

As for what makes the FBI "grossly incompetent"? Allowing high level officials at the FBI to use the power of their positions to try and affect a US Presidential election is what is grossly incompetent! Someone in the Bureau should have blown the whistle on what Comey, Page, McCabe and Strozk were doing! It disgusts me that nobody had the backbone to call them on the crap they were pulling!

Simple truth is this:
Page had piqued the interest of FBI investigators long before the Trump campaign, owing to his contacts with the Russian government and energy sector. For example, his 2013 contacts with Russian intelligence operatives who promised him business connections led to the FBI obtaining a FISA order against him in 2014.

You're doing it again, Care. What does that mean? "Page had piqued the interest of FBI investigators..." Are you claiming that statement confirms that the FBI got a FISA warrant at that time? If you are...show where that took place. Or did Page pique the interest of the FBI and after looking into him...they did nothing? Since there is ZERO evidence that a FISA warrant was ever sought by the FBI...let alone authorized...my guess is that the FBI examined him and found nothing worthwhile.

 

[Care4all]

On Feb. 2, 2018, FOX News’ Dana Perino said, “if Carter Page is under a FISA warrant starting in 2013. You have to go to the FISA court every 90 days in order to keep up that warrant. We don’t know if there was a lapse in the warrant between 2013 and 2015.”

Reports: Carter Page Was Subject to FISA Warrant in 2013/2014 - Just Security

Once again...IF YOU HAVE ANY PROOF AT ALL THAT CARTER PAGE WAS UNDER A FISA WARRANT BACK IN 2013 THEN PROVIDE THAT PROOF! If you don't...then stop repeating the same unproven bullshit that Dudmuck couldn't back up!

Just the fact that wall street journal has this article up, and that its still up, its evidence enough. Along with many other reputable news sites citing that WSJ article.

If the FBI didn't have a FISA warrant on Page in 2013, they would have been grossly incompetent.

So unsubstantiated articles from liberal media outlets and an article in the Wall Street Journal reporting on those articles in those liberal media outlets somehow constitute "proof"? The FBI couldn't have cared less about Carter Page back in 2013! He only became important when the Obama Administration could use him to spy on the Trump campaign years later!

As for what makes the FBI "grossly incompetent"? Allowing high level officials at the FBI to use the power of their positions to try and affect a US Presidential election is what is grossly incompetent! Someone in the Bureau should have blown the whistle on what Comey, Page, McCabe and Strozk were doing! It disgusts me that nobody had the backbone to call them on the crap they were pulling!

Simple truth is this:
Page had piqued the interest of FBI investigators long before the Trump campaign, owing to his contacts with the Russian government and energy sector. For example, his 2013 contacts with Russian intelligence operatives who promised him business connections led to the FBI obtaining a FISA order against him in 2014.

You're doing it again, Care. What does that mean? "Page had piqued the interest of FBI investigators..." Are you claiming that statement confirms that the FBI got a FISA warrant at that time? If you are...show where that took place. Or did Page pique the interest of the FBI and after looking into him...they did nothing? Since there is ZERO evidence that a FISA warrant was ever sought by the FBI...let alone authorized...my guess is that the FBI examined him and found nothing worthwhile.

that was Dudmuck's post, and not ''Care's'' post!

 

[Oldstyle]

You've just repeated the same narrative by the same sources...reported on by another source! Once again...DO YOU HAVE ANY PROOF WHATSOEVER THAT A FISA WARRANT WAS ISSUED ON CARTER PAGE BACK IN 2013!!! If so...provide it now!

On Feb. 2, 2018, FOX News’ Dana Perino said, “if Carter Page is under a FISA warrant starting in 2013. You have to go to the FISA court every 90 days in order to keep up that warrant. We don’t know if there was a lapse in the warrant between 2013 and 2015.”

Reports: Carter Page Was Subject to FISA Warrant in 2013/2014 - Just Security

Once again...IF YOU HAVE ANY PROOF AT ALL THAT CARTER PAGE WAS UNDER A FISA WARRANT BACK IN 2013 THEN PROVIDE THAT PROOF! If you don't...then stop repeating the same unproven bullshit that Dudmuck couldn't back up!

Just the fact that wall street journal has this article up, and that its still up, its evidence enough. Along with many other reputable news sites citing that WSJ article.

If the FBI didn't have a FISA warrant on Page in 2013, they would have been grossly incompetent.

So unsubstantiated articles from liberal media outlets and an article in the Wall Street Journal reporting on those articles in those liberal media outlets somehow constitute "proof"? The FBI couldn't have cared less about Carter Page back in 2013! He only became important when the Obama Administration could use him to spy on the Trump campaign years later!

As for what makes the FBI "grossly incompetent"? Allowing high level officials at the FBI to use the power of their positions to try and affect a US Presidential election is what is grossly incompetent! Someone in the Bureau should have blown the whistle on what Comey, Page, McCabe and Strozk were doing! It disgusts me that nobody had the backbone to call them on the crap they were pulling!

Simple truth is this:
Page had piqued the interest of FBI investigators long before the Trump campaign, owing to his contacts with the Russian government and energy sector. For example, his 2013 contacts with Russian intelligence operatives who promised him business connections led to the FBI obtaining a FISA order against him in 2014.

Where do you see evidence that the FBI obtained a FISA order against Page in 2014?

 

[Oldstyle]

The FBI couldn't have cared less about Carter Page back in 2013! He only became important when the Obama Administration could use him to spy on the Trump campaign years later!

Simply not true, AT ALL.

but you need to believe that, to believe the bull crap story that they only spied on Page to spy on the Trump Campaign.

Page had already left the campaign

Page had never even met Donald Trump, though he has been trying to meet him for some years now, and still has not met him.

Page, after he had left the campaign, 3 weeks before the election, would not be a good choice for the FBI to choose out of thin air, to spy on Candidate Trump or the campaign at that point.... it was all over but the shouting.

You are being sold a bill of goods, on that.... imo.

Are you familiar with the "Two Hop" rule, Care? It's what the authorities are allowed to do with wiretaps. You might want to do some research on what the FBI's wiretaps on Carter allowed them to do as far as wiretaps on others.

 

[Care4all]

The FBI couldn't have cared less about Carter Page back in 2013! He only became important when the Obama Administration could use him to spy on the Trump campaign years later!

Simply not true, AT ALL.

but you need to believe that, to believe the bull crap story that they only spied on Page to spy on the Trump Campaign.

Page had already left the campaign

Page had never even met Donald Trump, though he has been trying to meet him for some years now, and still has not met him.

Page, after he had left the campaign, 3 weeks before the election, would not be a good choice for the FBI to choose out of thin air, to spy on Candidate Trump or the campaign at that point.... it was all over but the shouting.

You are being sold a bill of goods, on that.... imo.

Are you familiar with the "Two Hop" rule, Care? It's what the authorities are allowed to do with wiretaps. You might want to do some research on what the FBI's wiretaps on Carter allowed them to do as far as wiretaps on others.

i'll research it now...

 

[Oldstyle]

To put it in simple terms...if I get a wire tap against you...it gives me permission to wire tap anyone that you call or calls you...and anyone that those people call or are called by.

 

[Oldstyle]

It's why obtaining the Carter wiretap allowed the Obama Justice Department to wiretap tens of thousands of people connected to the Trump campaign if they so desired. Still think it was meaningless?

 

[Oldstyle]

To be quite blunt...getting a FISA warrant against a low level staffer like Carter Page was the PERFECT way to get access to most of the Trump campaign's communications!

 

[Care4all]

To put it in simple terms...if I get a wire tap against you...it gives me permission to wire tap anyone that you call or calls you...and anyone that those people call or are called by.

i've just read a handful of articles on it.... rules were tightened on it... a few times since it began

but what I thought you implied....

-was that it was illegal- which it is NOT

-and that eaves dropping was able to hop twice- which it is not.

the hop is for meta data only, no conversations or information of anyone other than those calling the person directly under warrant.... the other data is simply phone numbers or IP addresses that call.... showing a pattern of calls or communication, but NOT the actual conversation....

Like, Manafort who has had a conversation with Page, then calls another number (like a person in the Ukraine or Russia) after every conversation with Page, or Manafort calls Kushner, after every call made to Page.... it shows a pattern of communications, if there are any at all, but not the personal conversation itself. so they can get no conversational information from the hopped once or hopped twice person.

Democrats and some Libertarians actually have joined together to object to this metadata collection, for years now.... and I believe, the NSA has actually decided to drop the LEGAL program recently because it is not really producing anything of significance...

 

[dudmuck]

To be quite blunt...getting a FISA warrant against a low level staffer like Carter Page was the PERFECT way to get access to most of the Trump campaign's communications!

The FISA warrant on Page only had to do with communications with Russia.

 

[edthecynic]

To be quite blunt...getting a FISA warrant against a low level staffer like Carter Page was the PERFECT way to get access to most of the Trump campaign's communications!

The FISA warrant on Page only had to do with communications with Russia.

Well Oldstyle is inadvertently admitting that most of Tramp's campaign had communications with Russia.
Thank you, Oldstyle!

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

To be quite blunt...getting a FISA warrant against a low level staffer like Carter Page was the PERFECT way to get access to most of the Trump campaign's communications!

The FISA warrant on Page only had to do with communications with Russia.

Well Oldstyle is inadvertently admitting that most of Tramp's campaign had communications with Russia.
Thank you, Oldstyle!

Were they flexible in their communications?

 

[Oldstyle]

To put it in simple terms...if I get a wire tap against you...it gives me permission to wire tap anyone that you call or calls you...and anyone that those people call or are called by.

i've just read a handful of articles on it.... rules were tightened on it... a few times since it began

but what I thought you implied....

-was that it was illegal- which it is NOT

-and that eaves dropping was able to hop twice- which it is not.

the hop is for meta data only, no conversations or information of anyone other than those calling the person directly under warrant.... the other data is simply phone numbers or IP addresses that call.... showing a pattern of calls or communication, but NOT the actual conversation....

Like, Manafort who has had a conversation with Page, then calls another number (like a person in the Ukraine or Russia) after every conversation with Page, or Manafort calls Kushner, after every call made to Page.... it shows a pattern of communications, if there are any at all, but not the personal conversation itself. so they can get no conversational information from the hopped once or hopped twice person.

Democrats and some Libertarians actually have joined together to object to this metadata collection, for years now.... and I believe, the NSA has actually decided to drop the LEGAL program recently because it is not really producing anything of significance...

I didn't imply that it was illegal...it's a very legal way to spy on thousands of people who have done nothing wrong! That's what makes it so dangerous!

To put it in simple terms...if I get a wire tap against you...it gives me permission to wire tap anyone that you call or calls you...and anyone that those people call or are called by.

i've just read a handful of articles on it.... rules were tightened on it... a few times since it began

but what I thought you implied....

-was that it was illegal- which it is NOT

-and that eaves dropping was able to hop twice- which it is not.

the hop is for meta data only, no conversations or information of anyone other than those calling the person directly under warrant.... the other data is simply phone numbers or IP addresses that call.... showing a pattern of calls or communication, but NOT the actual conversation....

Like, Manafort who has had a conversation with Page, then calls another number (like a person in the Ukraine or Russia) after every conversation with Page, or Manafort calls Kushner, after every call made to Page.... it shows a pattern of communications, if there are any at all, but not the personal conversation itself. so they can get no conversational information from the hopped once or hopped twice person.

Democrats and some Libertarians actually have joined together to object to this metadata collection, for years now.... and I believe, the NSA has actually decided to drop the LEGAL program recently because it is not really producing anything of significance...

Through a single warrant, government agents can capture phone calls, texts, emails and bank records from people “two hops" away. That means all of the suspected spy’s direct contacts— “one hop” —and everybody who contacts those people or even visits their Facebook pages or websites—two hops.

 

[Oldstyle]

To be quite blunt...getting a FISA warrant against a low level staffer like Carter Page was the PERFECT way to get access to most of the Trump campaign's communications!

The FISA warrant on Page only had to do with communications with Russia.

Well Oldstyle is inadvertently admitting that most of Tramp's campaign had communications with Russia.
Thank you, Oldstyle!

What I'm pointing out is that the Obama Administration used the FISA Court to legally spy on it's political opposition! Something that goes far beyond the crude break in at Democratic headquarters in the Watergate building! This was a deliberate abuse of the laws that were put in place to spy on terrorists...to spy on an Administration's political enemies! It a far bigger scandal than Watergate ever was!

 

[dudmuck]

To be quite blunt...getting a FISA warrant against a low level staffer like Carter Page was the PERFECT way to get access to most of the Trump campaign's communications!

The FISA warrant on Page only had to do with communications with Russia.

Well Oldstyle is inadvertently admitting that most of Tramp's campaign had communications with Russia.
Thank you, Oldstyle!

What I'm pointing out is that the Obama Administration used the FISA Court to legally spy on it's political opposition! Something that goes far beyond the crude break in at Democratic headquarters in the Watergate building! This was a deliberate abuse of the laws that were put in place to spy on terrorists...to spy on an Administration's political enemies! It a far bigger scandal than Watergate ever was!

Trump's FBI chief says that its not spying.
Actually Wray says that spying didnt occur.

Spying implies they would have gathered info on Trump then they turned it over to Hillary's campaign. What they were actually doing is called gathering evidence, and building a case.

FBI warned Trump in 2016 about what the Russians were up to. Spies dont let their targets know whats up.

 

[iceberg]

heh - still stuck on the "collusion illusion".