The existence of God.....and politics

[PratchettFan]

If a person who asks for proof that God does not exist thinks that the existence of God means life after death, the proof is very easy.

Simply maintain that you can prove it with the person's death, and offer to kill the person. The refusal is rejection of the proof and, at the same time, denial of faith there is a God.

If the person does not believe that life after death is part of the deal with God's existence, there isn't much point in proving it one way or the other, is there?

What if I just ask for proof to support the claim it doesn't exist or that it does exist?

 

[usfan]

How sane is anyone who is capable of deceiving themselves about something for which there is absolutely zero evidence, namely the existence of a god or gods?

Or nonexistent, whatever reality holds.

'When we remember we are all mad, the mysteries disappear and life stands, explained.' Mark Twain

 

[nat4900]

Rarely do you meet a person more afraid of death than the average Christian. What they should welcome scares them to death, pun intended.

A wise poet (Donne, I believe) once sated that death MUST be tragic, otherwise we must conclude that life is tragic.....

A major flaw (if I can call it that) with ultra-Islamists is the "power" they seem to gain by welcoming death......a complete rejection of the gift of life.

 

[there4eyeM]

A useful tool that can be used, unfortunately, to do whatever you damn well please.

Very true.....and, as an aside, raised as a Catholic and when I would get scolded during confession in my pre-teen years for saying to the confessor that my last confession was months ago.......I simply started to instead say that my last confession was just days ago AND that one of my sins was......lying to priests.

THAT would put a priest where he belongs; squarely in a quandary!

"Forgive me, Father, for I always lie!"

 

[nat4900]

THAT would put a priest where he belongs; squarely in a quandary!

"Forgive me, Father, for I always lie!"

Learning how to "game the system" at an early age.....LOL

 

[boilermaker55]

Can you prove that he does exist!

Since our current understanding of the universe is at best scratching at the surface, its arrogant ignorance to declare there is no God.

 

[JFK_USA]

Wasting your life believing a lie because you might be rewarded after death is no way to live. What God worthy of respect would want to gain believers that way and why would any God that did be worthy of my faith? Christians treat God like a candy machine, that takes prayers.

Any God worthy of my respect would be top of the list for understanding why I didn't believe in Him, and any God that didn't understand I wouldn't respect.

Exactly. There is no altruistic behavior. People do something for some perceived benefit.

What's even more frustrating is that is it illegal in 7 states to be atheist and hold office AND what's worse is that people still aren't willing to like the atheist to public office. It's so stupid.

 

[usfan]

]What if I just ask for proof to support the claim it doesn't exist or that it does exist?

That challenge doesn't bother dogmatists. They will assert their beliefs as proven fact, when they cannot prove it empirically.
If there is a God, He would be beyond what our finite minds could grasp. If there is not, how could anyone 'know' that definitively? The universe is too vast & mysterious to be defined by dogmatic assertions.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

"On another thread one of the usual right wing poster stated: "Prove to me that God does not exist..." Interesting challenge, if somewhat inane."

It's completely inane, and fails as a logical fallacy.

 

[nat4900]

Exactly. There is no altruistic behavior. People do something for some perceived benefit.

Indeed......no altruism......

Let me also state that I "over-simplified" Pascal's Wager and that, if interested, please do look it up yourselves.....

Secondly, since we briefly mentioned Nietzsche, note that he also once stated that for Christianity to gain power, Christ HAD TO DIE, placing upon Christians....not only the original sin alluded to in the Bible, but also a "debt" on all of us for Christ's sacrifice...Nietzsche called it [paraphrasing] the "ultimate power grab."

 

[there4eyeM]

The Pascal thing was noted, but there is so much nitpicking here...

 

[MarathonMike]

"Proof" of the existence or absence of God is an impossible task. The best you can do is examine the circumstantial evidence and draw conclusions from that. And that, just like in a court of law, is not an exact science. I don't buy into he various formal major religions and believe they have all caused their share of human suffering. Granted they have all done various levels of good also, you can debate whether the good outweighs the bad. I do believe there is a God, but do not believe he,she or it intervenes in human or weather events and definitely NOT sports events.

 

[boilermaker55]

If someone baits someone to prove that an supreme being doesn't exist the logical question would be to prove he does exist.

"Proof" of the existence or absence of God is an impossible task. The best you can do is examine the circumstantial evidence and draw conclusions from that. And that, just like in a court of law, is not an exact science. I don't buy into he various formal major religions and believe they have all caused their share of human suffering. Granted they have all done various levels of good also, you can debate whether the good outweighs the bad. I do believe there is a God, but do not believe he,she or it intervenes in human or weather events and definitely NOT sports events.

 

[LoneLaugher]

This thread is full of thinking people. It has yet to be spoiled. Did someone. Cast a spell or something?

Well done, everyone. I'm impressed.

 

[nat4900]

I do believe there is a God, but do not believe he,she or it intervenes in human or weather events and definitely NOT sports events.

Well stated......and you would then fall into the "category" of a deist...just like good ol' Ben F. and Jefferson....God as the "watchmaker."

 

[nat4900]

This thread is full of thinking people. It had yet to be spoiled. Did someone. Cast a spell or something?

Well done, everyone. I'm impressed.

I think there's a cross "lighting" event somewhere in Texas and a lot of right wingers are absent today (either that, or they're preparing for that Jade Helm takeover by federal troops...)

 

[nat4900]

If someone baits someone to prove that an supreme being doesn't exist the logical question would be to prove he does exist.

This thread was "inspired" (and I gag as I'm typing the word inspired) by our right wing poster-friend, Wildman, who posted in another thread:

and why do they [liberals] deny the existence of GOD ????

everything in existence has the hand of GOD on it, from "let there be light" to this very moment.

come on liberhaters show proof GOD does NOT exist. ​

 

[whitehall]

It doesn't matter in a political sense whether God exists. All that matters is that the greatest document ever written, the U.S. Constitution, guarantees the people the freedom to express their religious beliefs without government interference.

 

[nat4900]

It doesn't matter in a political sense whether God exists. All that matters is that the greatest document ever written, the U.S. Constitution, guarantees the people the freedom to express their religious beliefs without government interference.

That is indeed true....Yet, look at what and who we swear to....from placing our hand on a Bible to ending our oath with, "....so help me God."

 

[whitehall]

It doesn't matter in a political sense whether God exists. All that matters is that the greatest document ever written, the U.S. Constitution, guarantees the people the freedom to express their religious beliefs without government interference.

That is indeed true....Yet, look at what and who we swear to....from placing our hand on a Bible to ending our oath with, "....so help me God."

That's part of religious freedom. The traditional swearing in exercise doesn't force people to worship a certain God. It only indicates that the majority of sane people agree that swearing before a deity of their choice indicates the intent to tell the truth or the acknowledgement of the seriousness of their testimony. Atheists need to acknowledge the fact that the majority of Americans are comfortable with the tradition and aren't afraid of some government cabal that might force them to worship a being superior to themselves. Lighten up atheists, affording the majority of Americans their 1st Amendment right to acknowledge a supreme being doesn't take away your right to do the opposite.