The FBI’s terrorism watch list violates the Constitution, federal judge says

[iceberg]

ohhh...the "f word"...what you are 12? it is just a fucking word, no different than any other word. Grow up for gods sake

Treat the lady with respect, Gator Bait.

Fuck off, she is no lady. She is right wing ewe that does nothing but parrot talking points and hates our constitution.

You need a lesson in manners. Regardless of her political view, she is still a lady.

Oh bite me. I am all for equal treatment for everyone.

Therein lies the problem and why abuse of women is on the rise.

because some say stupid shit or because some call them on it?

stop going to mile marker 100,000 from marker 1 cause you want to be an idiot. that is why stupidity has been on the rise for so long. people pulling shit like this then trying to sell that brown bag of flaming poo.

 

[beautress]

A federal judge ruled Wednesday that an FBI watch list of more than 1 million “known or suspected terrorists” violates the constitutional rights of U.S. citizens in the database. The decision from U.S. District Judge Anthony J. Trenga of the Eastern District of Virginia in favor of 23 Muslim Americans who sued over their inclusion in the Terrorist Screening Database found that the watch list infringes on their constitutional right to due process.

The only reason we haven't had a hit like 9/11 since that time is greatly in part because the public has been informed to look out for suspicious activity that would threaten masses of people like those people in the Twin Towers of New York City that served as the World Trade Center for this country.

Why is a District Judge ruling against the FBI which answers to the Executive Branch of the United States of America? Here it seems to me that we have a Judicial entity trying to remove a Presidential power that assists him with his oath of office to "provide for the common defense."

More here: https://www.washingtonpost.com/nati...or-watch-list-unconstitutional/?noredirect=on

It's important to remember here that presidents, and political agendas change. Having tools like this available to the government is dangerous to the voting public. The only thing that prevents these tools from being turned against YOU; is the will, and prerogative of whomever is in power.

Maybe you haven't been paying attention to the FISA abuses that the FBI just had regarding the Trump campaign, including George Papadope, and Carter Page? Keeping track of terrorists is a necessity, especially after 9/11. I don't want to fly with anyone who might want to blow-up of hijack the plane. So I disagree with your post because:
1. The FBI doesn't need any more help to spy illegally, they do it already
2. We do need high tech ways of tracking potential terrorists, especially after 9/11

My how ones tune will change when the powers that be determine that YOU, and those who believe what you do, ARE the terrorists. Peoples shortsightedness is what will cost us all our freedom...

We disagree. Back in the Clinton admin Janet Reno didn't like the name of "Carnivore" the FBI's new program to "spy" on everyone's email.
Carnivore | software

Can you imagine what the NSA and FBI have today to spy on us? Remember Edward Snowden? He leaked about the telecom surveillance network that the NSA was using, and that was back in 2013.
Edward Snowden - Wikipedia

Imagine forward...to AI surveillance. Ever see the movie "Eagle Eye"? Is that what we have to look forward to?

I'm not worried about terrorist watch lists for non-Americans. I'm worried about what's watching the rest of us.

A substantial number of the people on that list ARE Americans.
.

A substantial number of Obama's staff ARE Americans. And they want to get rid of Republican Party members. By any means possible, and I oppose that, thankyouverymuch.

 

[OKTexas]

It's important to remember here that presidents, and political agendas change. Having tools like this available to the government is dangerous to the voting public. The only thing that prevents these tools from being turned against YOU; is the will, and prerogative of whomever is in power.

Maybe you haven't been paying attention to the FISA abuses that the FBI just had regarding the Trump campaign, including George Papadope, and Carter Page? Keeping track of terrorists is a necessity, especially after 9/11. I don't want to fly with anyone who might want to blow-up of hijack the plane. So I disagree with your post because:
1. The FBI doesn't need any more help to spy illegally, they do it already
2. We do need high tech ways of tracking potential terrorists, especially after 9/11

My how ones tune will change when the powers that be determine that YOU, and those who believe what you do, ARE the terrorists. Peoples shortsightedness is what will cost us all our freedom...

We disagree. Back in the Clinton admin Janet Reno didn't like the name of "Carnivore" the FBI's new program to "spy" on everyone's email.
Carnivore | software

Can you imagine what the NSA and FBI have today to spy on us? Remember Edward Snowden? He leaked about the telecom surveillance network that the NSA was using, and that was back in 2013.
Edward Snowden - Wikipedia

Imagine forward...to AI surveillance. Ever see the movie "Eagle Eye"? Is that what we have to look forward to?

I'm not worried about terrorist watch lists for non-Americans. I'm worried about what's watching the rest of us.

A substantial number of the people on that list ARE Americans.
.

A substantial number of Obama's staff ARE Americans. And they want to get rid of Republican Party members. By any means possible, and I oppose that, thankyouverymuch.

Perhaps you should stop aiding and abetting them. I refuse to fly, not because I'm on any unconstitutional list, but because I refuse to surrender my 4th amendment rights to do so. You don't seem to have any concern for your rights or anyone else. I swore to defend the country against people like you.

.

 

[beautress]

A federal judge ruled Wednesday that an FBI watch list of more than 1 million “known or suspected terrorists” violates the constitutional rights of U.S. citizens in the database. The decision from U.S. District Judge Anthony J. Trenga of the Eastern District of Virginia in favor of 23 Muslim Americans who sued over their inclusion in the Terrorist Screening Database found that the watch list infringes on their constitutional right to due process.

The only reason we haven't had a hit like 9/11 since that time is greatly in part because the public has been informed to look out for suspicious activity that would threaten masses of people like those people in the Twin Towers of New York City that served as the World Trade Center for this country.

Why is a District Judge ruling against the FBI which answers to the Executive Branch of the United States of America? Here it seems to me that we have a Judicial entity trying to remove a Presidential power that assists him with his oath of office to "provide for the common defense."

More here: https://www.washingtonpost.com/nati...or-watch-list-unconstitutional/?noredirect=on

You're not very smart are ya? Can you say a "denial of liberty" without "due process"? Damn it's so simple a commiecrat should be able to understand it..

America had no due process when Obama snapped his finger and brought 2 million Muslims with a belly fulla hate apiece over here unilaterally and he thought on the sly. That means that your great grandchildren will erase your name, take on a hajib, and face the East nine times a day. Coingratulations.

So you think you can selectively throw out the Constitution, it doesn't work that way child. Once rights are gone for some, they're gone for all. People like you are a greater threat to the American way of life than the people on that list. You're fucking pathetic.
.

I'm defending the Constitutional argument that the three branches of government are separate and may not rule or infringe in any way against the power of the other branch or branches just because they're having a bad day.

I'm also street savvy and do not show all my cards at once to defend my frame of reference for younger people half my age who call me child.

About forty years ago, my husband was often called into corporate disputes because of his characteristic trait of being a healer of scorched executives too talented to lose but too stupid to get along with other people in the corporation. The company hired a quite gifted electrical man who happened to be a Muslim. In his spare time, he researched and found out who the Jews were in the company. He only found one whom he selected for a takeout. He cornered the Jew in his office, from which he was eventually banned from, then attacked him in hallways, the elevator, and board room meetings by every means possible. Even the best sense of humor failed to lighten up this repetitive hater, so I never heard the fate of either man because we were transferred back to the state of Wyoming after 5 years. All I could do was to pray for the two men who hated each other, and buy some more warm clothes to enjoy the rest of my adult life in the Equality State where I knew I'd have chronic bronchitis for the next 25 years until my husband's retirement.

The moral of this story is there is no healing when Muslims are in the same building with Jews, and the screaming fits wear on everybody's soul who is exposed to listen to baggage with a ten thousand year weight tag attached to it, exacerbated by the Muslim Mufti of Jerusalem who convinced Hitler to murder every last Jew in Europe, then when that task was accomplished and the war was over, Hitler was to in turn send his SS to their Mediterranean home for thousands of years, to kill all the Jews. In return, the Mufti contacted his Muslim pals in the oil industry to kick out the Americans and steal their companies that had purchased oil reserves, and turn it over to the Germans for use in wiping out Great Britain and anyone else who stood in Hitler's way. Fortunately, the Muslims did not get their happy ending, except for the 6 million they murdered most heartlessly and cheerfully let the Germans have all the wealth, real estate, jewels, even the gold metal from the extracted teeth of the dead Jewish bodies who inhaled sarinlike death gasses in the shower chambers passed off by liars to innocent people who caught a train to detention centers until released, another lie set up by the unholy alliance of Mufti and Fuhrer's henchmen.

I have come to the opinion that the Muslim intention of murdering Jews as being a favor to the world is as unstoppable as genetics. The Jews have a paradox to face--to live and multiply or to be punished forever by the wronged brother who never forgot his lost inheritance for murdering him, and having enough reverence to God to forgive and live in peace. The Muslim ethic by contrast, their Allah orders them to engage in Jihad and do what they have to do to place dead Jews at Allah's feet to please him. In recent years, anyone who defends Jews is doubled down on, as the Allah-adherents reward their murderers and double it if one of them happens to be an American.

The American Muslims have not redrafted printed Muslim Torahs their Jihad demands. They have unified themselves to the causes of whichever Muslim Countries win concessions against Americans and Jews, and life under the pretense their first loyalty is in the Middle East and their last loyalty considered is American citizenship, which is now repugnant to muslims who hate our defense of Israel. The price on our heads over there is double that of Jews now. It's so convenient for their political entities to hurt us at the United Nations, and to hurt us by unkindness to citizens who were here at our Republic's beginning, the Jews, who provided funding for George Washingon's army to beat the British back to their boats and send them back to a country that would never collect another schilling in taxes from the United States of America.

So if enough of them (or other Americans) fell within the parameters of the FBI's reason to put them on a watch list, I'm sorry. The ruffled feathers are sorrowful, but not as sorrowful as 3,000 men, women, and children put 6 feet under so the Muslims can whine about being made to get along with Jews living in the Middle East.

In this nation, Islam has been used as a political cause, not a religious cause. Allah seems to hate our Constitution because it does not make everyone bow down to Allah's holy men who want a blood price in Jew Flesh from America. We're not going to deliver this to their "Allah" and our craven congressmen are not going to call "Allah" what he is--a political image, not a religious one as its primary cause in this nation.

The Congress needs to call Islam a political party, and quit giving it religious assylum. That's the reality as I see it, and the Democrats are breeding a race of Antifa who will be worshiping a political party. How easy it will be for them to convert from one political party to another--the Muslim brotherhood.

If you have thought this through, I'm right. Islam on this side of the Atlantic is merely a political tool to the oil barons of limitless wealth in the Arabic countries of Africa and Eurasia. That is the true fact of the matter. That they've turned political hatred into religious hatred, that is the sad part of the fact of the matter. The Muslims brought this about all by themselves and their practicing political animus against people of Jewish extraction.

 

[beautress]

Maybe you haven't been paying attention to the FISA abuses that the FBI just had regarding the Trump campaign, including George Papadope, and Carter Page? Keeping track of terrorists is a necessity, especially after 9/11. I don't want to fly with anyone who might want to blow-up of hijack the plane. So I disagree with your post because:
1. The FBI doesn't need any more help to spy illegally, they do it already
2. We do need high tech ways of tracking potential terrorists, especially after 9/11

My how ones tune will change when the powers that be determine that YOU, and those who believe what you do, ARE the terrorists. Peoples shortsightedness is what will cost us all our freedom...

We disagree. Back in the Clinton admin Janet Reno didn't like the name of "Carnivore" the FBI's new program to "spy" on everyone's email.
Carnivore | software

Can you imagine what the NSA and FBI have today to spy on us? Remember Edward Snowden? He leaked about the telecom surveillance network that the NSA was using, and that was back in 2013.
Edward Snowden - Wikipedia

Imagine forward...to AI surveillance. Ever see the movie "Eagle Eye"? Is that what we have to look forward to?

I'm not worried about terrorist watch lists for non-Americans. I'm worried about what's watching the rest of us.

A substantial number of the people on that list ARE Americans.
.

A substantial number of Obama's staff ARE Americans. And they want to get rid of Republican Party members. By any means possible, and I oppose that, thankyouverymuch.

Perhaps you should stop aiding and abetting them. I refuse to fly, not because I'm on any unconstitutional list, but because I refuse to surrender my 4th amendment rights to do so. You don't seem to have any concern for your rights or anyone else. I swore to defend the country against people like you.
.

I have never failed to stop supporting my country, respect the US flag, and cover wounded veterans as part of my life's work. When others forget, I sing patriotic songs of the country even at purely social events. The veterans I know like my renditions of America the Beautiful, This Land is My Land, this land is your land, the National Anthem, My Country Tis of Thee, God Bless America, et al.

It's all I have to give, and I give it cheerfully, sir. I'm sorry you selected me to publicly chew on this week. I'd have preferred to be corrected by you privately, but you preferred to associate me with your F-word list, and I have no choice but to end acknowledging your lies about my patriotism. You've gone way out of your way to humiliate and abuse my love for my country and its pledge, its flag, and it's constituttion, without proving your case. There's only one thing left to say to you. "Good Bye to you and your hatred. Good bye to you and your use of the f word in place of debate."

 

[OKTexas]

A federal judge ruled Wednesday that an FBI watch list of more than 1 million “known or suspected terrorists” violates the constitutional rights of U.S. citizens in the database. The decision from U.S. District Judge Anthony J. Trenga of the Eastern District of Virginia in favor of 23 Muslim Americans who sued over their inclusion in the Terrorist Screening Database found that the watch list infringes on their constitutional right to due process.

The only reason we haven't had a hit like 9/11 since that time is greatly in part because the public has been informed to look out for suspicious activity that would threaten masses of people like those people in the Twin Towers of New York City that served as the World Trade Center for this country.

Why is a District Judge ruling against the FBI which answers to the Executive Branch of the United States of America? Here it seems to me that we have a Judicial entity trying to remove a Presidential power that assists him with his oath of office to "provide for the common defense."

More here: https://www.washingtonpost.com/nati...or-watch-list-unconstitutional/?noredirect=on

You're not very smart are ya? Can you say a "denial of liberty" without "due process"? Damn it's so simple a commiecrat should be able to understand it..

America had no due process when Obama snapped his finger and brought 2 million Muslims with a belly fulla hate apiece over here unilaterally and he thought on the sly. That means that your great grandchildren will erase your name, take on a hajib, and face the East nine times a day. Coingratulations.

So you think you can selectively throw out the Constitution, it doesn't work that way child. Once rights are gone for some, they're gone for all. People like you are a greater threat to the American way of life than the people on that list. You're fucking pathetic.
.

I'm defending the Constitutional argument that the three branches of government are separate and may not rule or infringe in any way against the power of the other branch or branches just because they're having a bad day.

I'm also street savvy and do not show all my cards at once to defend my frame of reference for younger people half my age who call me child.

About forty years ago, my husband was often called into corporate disputes because of his characteristic trait of being a healer of scorched executives too talented to lose but too stupid to get along with other people in the corporation. The company hired a quite gifted electrical man who happened to be a Muslim. In his spare time, he researched and found out who the Jews were in the company. He only found one whom he selected for a takeout. He cornered the Jew in his office, from which he was eventually banned from, then attacked him in hallways, the elevator, and board room meetings by every means possible. Even the best sense of humor failed to lighten up this repetitive hater, so I never heard the fate of either man because we were transferred back to the state of Wyoming after 5 years. All I could do was to pray for the two men who hated each other, and buy some more warm clothes to enjoy the rest of my adult life in the Equality State where I knew I'd have chronic bronchitis for the next 25 years until my husband's retirement.

The moral of this story is there is no healing when Muslims are in the same building with Jews, and the screaming fits wear on everybody's soul who is exposed to listen to baggage with a ten thousand year weight tag attached to it, exacerbated by the Muslim Mufti of Jerusalem who convinced Hitler to murder every last Jew in Europe, then when that task was accomplished and the war was over, Hitler was to in turn send his SS to their Mediterranean home for thousands of years, to kill all the Jews. In return, the Mufti contacted his Muslim pals in the oil industry to kick out the Americans and steal their companies that had purchased oil reserves, and turn it over to the Germans for use in wiping out Great Britain and anyone else who stood in Hitler's way. Fortunately, the Muslims did not get their happy ending, except for the 6 million they murdered most heartlessly and cheerfully let the Germans have all the wealth, real estate, jewels, even the gold metal from the extracted teeth of the dead Jewish bodies who inhaled sarinlike death gasses in the shower chambers passed off by liars to innocent people who caught a train to detention centers until released, another lie set up by the unholy alliance of Mufti and Fuhrer's henchmen.

I have come to the opinion that the Muslim intention of murdering Jews as being a favor to the world is as unstoppable as genetics. The Jews have a paradox to face--to live and multiply or to be punished forever by the wronged brother who never forgot his lost inheritance for murdering him, and having enough reverence to God to forgive and live in peace. The Muslim ethic by contrast, their Allah orders them to engage in Jihad and do what they have to do to place dead Jews at Allah's feet to please him. In recent years, anyone who defends Jews is doubled down on, as the Allah-adherents reward their murderers and double it if one of them happens to be an American.

The American Muslims have not redrafted printed Muslim Torahs their Jihad demands. They have unified themselves to the causes of whichever Muslim Countries win concessions against Americans and Jews, and life under the pretense their first loyalty is in the Middle East and their last loyalty considered is American citizenship, which is now repugnant to muslims who hate our defense of Israel. The price on our heads over there is double that of Jews now. It's so convenient for their political entities to hurt us at the United Nations, and to hurt us by unkindness to citizens who were here at our Republic's beginning, the Jews, who provided funding for George Washingon's army to beat the British back to their boats and send them back to a country that would never collect another schilling in taxes from the United States of America.

So if enough of them (or other Americans) fell within the parameters of the FBI's reason to put them on a watch list, I'm sorry. The ruffled feathers are sorrowful, but not as sorrowful as 3,000 men, women, and children put 6 feet under so the Muslims can whine about being made to get along with Jews living in the Middle East.

In this nation, Islam has been used as a political cause, not a religious cause. Allah seems to hate our Constitution because it does not make everyone bow down to Allah's holy men who want a blood price in Jew Flesh from America. We're not going to deliver this to their "Allah" and our craven congressmen are not going to call "Allah" what he is--a political image, not a religious one as its primary cause in this nation.

The Congress needs to call Islam a political party, and quit giving it religious assylum. That's the reality as I see it, and the Democrats are breeding a race of Antifa who will be worshiping a political party. How easy it will be for them to convert from one political party to another--the Muslim brotherhood.

If you have thought this through, I'm right. Islam on this side of the Atlantic is merely a political tool to the oil barons of limitless wealth in the Arabic countries of Africa and Eurasia. That is the true fact of the matter. That they've turned political hatred into religious hatred, that is the sad part of the fact of the matter. The Muslims brought this about all by themselves and their practicing political animus against people of Jewish extraction.

Wow, all that for a strawman. The three branches created by our founders was to establish a system of checks and balances. When the executive exceed their authority, it up to congress and the courts to put a stop to it. Or if the legislative and executive branches work in concert to violate rights, it's up to the courts to put a stop to it. Perhaps you should take a remedial civics course. The bill of rights are not suggestions, they are the supreme law of the land. And when you stop acting like a child, I might stop treating you as one.

.

 

[Hossfly]

Being put on that list for no other reason than being Muslim, and having no reasonable way to get off of it is an abuse of that list. Keep the list, but be careful to only put people on it that belong there.

Fuck that, let the government prove in front of a judge that a person belongs on the list and get a court order to do so.

.

I thought that was pretty close to what I said.

No, you didn't mention the right of the accused to face their accusers, or call witnesses on their behalf. That's due process.

.

I agree with that but the ratch list is only for "Known or Suspected terrorists." Anyone who feels they shouldn't be on the list can sue for removal.

So, they have to prove their innocence instead of the government having the burden of proving their guilt. And you are ok with that?

No. The government has to prove their guilt or remove them from the list.

 

[OKTexas]

My how ones tune will change when the powers that be determine that YOU, and those who believe what you do, ARE the terrorists. Peoples shortsightedness is what will cost us all our freedom...

We disagree. Back in the Clinton admin Janet Reno didn't like the name of "Carnivore" the FBI's new program to "spy" on everyone's email.
Carnivore | software

Can you imagine what the NSA and FBI have today to spy on us? Remember Edward Snowden? He leaked about the telecom surveillance network that the NSA was using, and that was back in 2013.
Edward Snowden - Wikipedia

Imagine forward...to AI surveillance. Ever see the movie "Eagle Eye"? Is that what we have to look forward to?

I'm not worried about terrorist watch lists for non-Americans. I'm worried about what's watching the rest of us.

A substantial number of the people on that list ARE Americans.
.

A substantial number of Obama's staff ARE Americans. And they want to get rid of Republican Party members. By any means possible, and I oppose that, thankyouverymuch.

Perhaps you should stop aiding and abetting them. I refuse to fly, not because I'm on any unconstitutional list, but because I refuse to surrender my 4th amendment rights to do so. You don't seem to have any concern for your rights or anyone else. I swore to defend the country against people like you.
.

I have never failed to stop supporting my country, respect the US flag, and cover wounded veterans as part of my life's work. When others forget, I sing patriotic songs of the country even at purely social events. The veterans I know like my renditions of America the Beautiful, This Land is My Land, this land is your land, the National Anthem, My Country Tis of Thee, God Bless America, et al.

It's all I have to give, and I give it cheerfully, sir. I'm sorry you selected me to publicly chew on this week. I'd have preferred to be corrected by you privately, but you preferred to associate me with your F-word list, and I have no choice but to end acknowledging your lies about my patriotism. You've gone way out of your way to humiliate and abuse my love for my country and its pledge, its flag, and it's constituttion, without proving your case. There's only one thing left to say to you. "Good Bye to you and your hatred. Good bye to you and your use of the f word in place of debate."

Poor little thing, if you don't want to be corrected in public, perhaps you should keep your ignorant opinions off a public forum. Songs are meaningless if you don't support the principles behind them.

.

 

[beautress]

Fuck that, let the government prove in front of a judge that a person belongs on the list and get a court order to do so.

.

I thought that was pretty close to what I said.

No, you didn't mention the right of the accused to face their accusers, or call witnesses on their behalf. That's due process.

.

I agree with that but the ratch list is only for "Known or Suspected terrorists." Anyone who feels they shouldn't be on the list can sue for removal.

So, they have to prove their innocence instead of the government having the burden of proving their guilt. And you are ok with that?

No. The government has to prove their guilt or remove them from the list.

That sounds only fair. Thanks for the explanation.

 

[OKTexas]

Fuck that, let the government prove in front of a judge that a person belongs on the list and get a court order to do so.

.

I thought that was pretty close to what I said.

No, you didn't mention the right of the accused to face their accusers, or call witnesses on their behalf. That's due process.

.

I agree with that but the ratch list is only for "Known or Suspected terrorists." Anyone who feels they shouldn't be on the list can sue for removal.

So, they have to prove their innocence instead of the government having the burden of proving their guilt. And you are ok with that?

No. The government has to prove their guilt or remove them from the list.

The thing is, if the government had any proof of their guilt, they would be in jail and not on a secret list.

.

 

[beautress]

We disagree. Back in the Clinton admin Janet Reno didn't like the name of "Carnivore" the FBI's new program to "spy" on everyone's email.
Carnivore | software

Can you imagine what the NSA and FBI have today to spy on us? Remember Edward Snowden? He leaked about the telecom surveillance network that the NSA was using, and that was back in 2013.
Edward Snowden - Wikipedia

Imagine forward...to AI surveillance. Ever see the movie "Eagle Eye"? Is that what we have to look forward to?

I'm not worried about terrorist watch lists for non-Americans. I'm worried about what's watching the rest of us.

A substantial number of the people on that list ARE Americans.
.

A substantial number of Obama's staff ARE Americans. And they want to get rid of Republican Party members. By any means possible, and I oppose that, thankyouverymuch.

Perhaps you should stop aiding and abetting them. I refuse to fly, not because I'm on any unconstitutional list, but because I refuse to surrender my 4th amendment rights to do so. You don't seem to have any concern for your rights or anyone else. I swore to defend the country against people like you.
.

I have never failed to stop supporting my country, respect the US flag, and cover wounded veterans as part of my life's work. When others forget, I sing patriotic songs of the country even at purely social events. The veterans I know like my renditions of America the Beautiful, This Land is My Land, this land is your land, the National Anthem, My Country Tis of Thee, God Bless America, et al.

It's all I have to give, and I give it cheerfully, sir. I'm sorry you selected me to publicly chew on this week. I'd have preferred to be corrected by you privately, but you preferred to associate me with your F-word list, and I have no choice but to end acknowledging your lies about my patriotism. You've gone way out of your way to humiliate and abuse my love for my country and its pledge, its flag, and it's constituttion, without proving your case. There's only one thing left to say to you. "Good Bye to you and your hatred. Good bye to you and your use of the f word in place of debate."

Poor little thing, if you don't want to be corrected in public, perhaps you should keep your ignorant opinions off a public forum. Songs are meaningless if you don't support the principles behind them.
.

Betray someone by enough bullets through them rather than telling them what is right, and you'll receive what you have earned for yourself.

 

[iceberg]

A federal judge ruled Wednesday that an FBI watch list of more than 1 million “known or suspected terrorists” violates the constitutional rights of U.S. citizens in the database. The decision from U.S. District Judge Anthony J. Trenga of the Eastern District of Virginia in favor of 23 Muslim Americans who sued over their inclusion in the Terrorist Screening Database found that the watch list infringes on their constitutional right to due process.

The only reason we haven't had a hit like 9/11 since that time is greatly in part because the public has been informed to look out for suspicious activity that would threaten masses of people like those people in the Twin Towers of New York City that served as the World Trade Center for this country.

Why is a District Judge ruling against the FBI which answers to the Executive Branch of the United States of America? Here it seems to me that we have a Judicial entity trying to remove a Presidential power that assists him with his oath of office to "provide for the common defense."

More here: https://www.washingtonpost.com/nati...or-watch-list-unconstitutional/?noredirect=on

You're not very smart are ya? Can you say a "denial of liberty" without "due process"? Damn it's so simple a commiecrat should be able to understand it..

America had no due process when Obama snapped his finger and brought 2 million Muslims with a belly fulla hate apiece over here unilaterally and he thought on the sly. That means that your great grandchildren will erase your name, take on a hajib, and face the East nine times a day. Coingratulations.

So you think you can selectively throw out the Constitution, it doesn't work that way child. Once rights are gone for some, they're gone for all. People like you are a greater threat to the American way of life than the people on that list. You're fucking pathetic.
.

I'm defending the Constitutional argument that the three branches of government are separate and may not rule or infringe in any way against the power of the other branch or branches just because they're having a bad day.

I'm also street savvy and do not show all my cards at once to defend my frame of reference for younger people half my age who call me child.

About forty years ago, my husband was often called into corporate disputes because of his characteristic trait of being a healer of scorched executives too talented to lose but too stupid to get along with other people in the corporation. The company hired a quite gifted electrical man who happened to be a Muslim. In his spare time, he researched and found out who the Jews were in the company. He only found one whom he selected for a takeout. He cornered the Jew in his office, from which he was eventually banned from, then attacked him in hallways, the elevator, and board room meetings by every means possible. Even the best sense of humor failed to lighten up this repetitive hater, so I never heard the fate of either man because we were transferred back to the state of Wyoming after 5 years. All I could do was to pray for the two men who hated each other, and buy some more warm clothes to enjoy the rest of my adult life in the Equality State where I knew I'd have chronic bronchitis for the next 25 years until my husband's retirement.

The moral of this story is there is no healing when Muslims are in the same building with Jews, and the screaming fits wear on everybody's soul who is exposed to listen to baggage with a ten thousand year weight tag attached to it, exacerbated by the Muslim Mufti of Jerusalem who convinced Hitler to murder every last Jew in Europe, then when that task was accomplished and the war was over, Hitler was to in turn send his SS to their Mediterranean home for thousands of years, to kill all the Jews. In return, the Mufti contacted his Muslim pals in the oil industry to kick out the Americans and steal their companies that had purchased oil reserves, and turn it over to the Germans for use in wiping out Great Britain and anyone else who stood in Hitler's way. Fortunately, the Muslims did not get their happy ending, except for the 6 million they murdered most heartlessly and cheerfully let the Germans have all the wealth, real estate, jewels, even the gold metal from the extracted teeth of the dead Jewish bodies who inhaled sarinlike death gasses in the shower chambers passed off by liars to innocent people who caught a train to detention centers until released, another lie set up by the unholy alliance of Mufti and Fuhrer's henchmen.

I have come to the opinion that the Muslim intention of murdering Jews as being a favor to the world is as unstoppable as genetics. The Jews have a paradox to face--to live and multiply or to be punished forever by the wronged brother who never forgot his lost inheritance for murdering him, and having enough reverence to God to forgive and live in peace. The Muslim ethic by contrast, their Allah orders them to engage in Jihad and do what they have to do to place dead Jews at Allah's feet to please him. In recent years, anyone who defends Jews is doubled down on, as the Allah-adherents reward their murderers and double it if one of them happens to be an American.

The American Muslims have not redrafted printed Muslim Torahs their Jihad demands. They have unified themselves to the causes of whichever Muslim Countries win concessions against Americans and Jews, and life under the pretense their first loyalty is in the Middle East and their last loyalty considered is American citizenship, which is now repugnant to muslims who hate our defense of Israel. The price on our heads over there is double that of Jews now. It's so convenient for their political entities to hurt us at the United Nations, and to hurt us by unkindness to citizens who were here at our Republic's beginning, the Jews, who provided funding for George Washingon's army to beat the British back to their boats and send them back to a country that would never collect another schilling in taxes from the United States of America.

So if enough of them (or other Americans) fell within the parameters of the FBI's reason to put them on a watch list, I'm sorry. The ruffled feathers are sorrowful, but not as sorrowful as 3,000 men, women, and children put 6 feet under so the Muslims can whine about being made to get along with Jews living in the Middle East.

In this nation, Islam has been used as a political cause, not a religious cause. Allah seems to hate our Constitution because it does not make everyone bow down to Allah's holy men who want a blood price in Jew Flesh from America. We're not going to deliver this to their "Allah" and our craven congressmen are not going to call "Allah" what he is--a political image, not a religious one as its primary cause in this nation.

The Congress needs to call Islam a political party, and quit giving it religious assylum. That's the reality as I see it, and the Democrats are breeding a race of Antifa who will be worshiping a political party. How easy it will be for them to convert from one political party to another--the Muslim brotherhood.

If you have thought this through, I'm right. Islam on this side of the Atlantic is merely a political tool to the oil barons of limitless wealth in the Arabic countries of Africa and Eurasia. That is the true fact of the matter. That they've turned political hatred into religious hatred, that is the sad part of the fact of the matter. The Muslims brought this about all by themselves and their practicing political animus against people of Jewish extraction.

CNN.com - Saved by Jewish man on 9/11, Pakistani Muslim reaches out - September 2, 2002

maybe, just maybe, it depends on the people.

not the stereotype.

 

[Papageorgio]

Being put on that list for no other reason than being Muslim, and having no reasonable way to get off of it is an abuse of that list. Keep the list, but be careful to only put people on it that belong there.

And don't let people ON the list buy or own guns.

I'm pretty certain that list of people related to terrorists wasn't "thrown together" by know-nothings.

If we give up freedoms for safety, we have neither freedom or safety.

 

[OKTexas]

A substantial number of the people on that list ARE Americans.
.

A substantial number of Obama's staff ARE Americans. And they want to get rid of Republican Party members. By any means possible, and I oppose that, thankyouverymuch.

Perhaps you should stop aiding and abetting them. I refuse to fly, not because I'm on any unconstitutional list, but because I refuse to surrender my 4th amendment rights to do so. You don't seem to have any concern for your rights or anyone else. I swore to defend the country against people like you.
.

I have never failed to stop supporting my country, respect the US flag, and cover wounded veterans as part of my life's work. When others forget, I sing patriotic songs of the country even at purely social events. The veterans I know like my renditions of America the Beautiful, This Land is My Land, this land is your land, the National Anthem, My Country Tis of Thee, God Bless America, et al.

It's all I have to give, and I give it cheerfully, sir. I'm sorry you selected me to publicly chew on this week. I'd have preferred to be corrected by you privately, but you preferred to associate me with your F-word list, and I have no choice but to end acknowledging your lies about my patriotism. You've gone way out of your way to humiliate and abuse my love for my country and its pledge, its flag, and it's constituttion, without proving your case. There's only one thing left to say to you. "Good Bye to you and your hatred. Good bye to you and your use of the f word in place of debate."

Poor little thing, if you don't want to be corrected in public, perhaps you should keep your ignorant opinions off a public forum. Songs are meaningless if you don't support the principles behind them.
.

Betray someone by enough bullets through them rather than telling them what is right, and you'll receive what you have earned for yourself.

You were told what's right on page one, yet you insisted on doubling down on stupid. Go figure. Also if you're offended by a bit of salty language, you might want to confine yourself to the childrens forums.

.

 

[beautress]

If we follow shibboleths

A substantial number of Obama's staff ARE Americans. And they want to get rid of Republican Party members. By any means possible, and I oppose that, thankyouverymuch.

Perhaps you should stop aiding and abetting them. I refuse to fly, not because I'm on any unconstitutional list, but because I refuse to surrender my 4th amendment rights to do so. You don't seem to have any concern for your rights or anyone else. I swore to defend the country against people like you.
.

I have never failed to stop supporting my country, respect the US flag, and cover wounded veterans as part of my life's work. When others forget, I sing patriotic songs of the country even at purely social events. The veterans I know like my renditions of America the Beautiful, This Land is My Land, this land is your land, the National Anthem, My Country Tis of Thee, God Bless America, et al.

It's all I have to give, and I give it cheerfully, sir. I'm sorry you selected me to publicly chew on this week. I'd have preferred to be corrected by you privately, but you preferred to associate me with your F-word list, and I have no choice but to end acknowledging your lies about my patriotism. You've gone way out of your way to humiliate and abuse my love for my country and its pledge, its flag, and it's constituttion, without proving your case. There's only one thing left to say to you. "Good Bye to you and your hatred. Good bye to you and your use of the f word in place of debate."

Poor little thing, if you don't want to be corrected in public, perhaps you should keep your ignorant opinions off a public forum. Songs are meaningless if you don't support the principles behind them.
.

Betray someone by enough bullets through them rather than telling them what is right, and you'll receive what you have earned for yourself.

You were told what's right on page one, yet you insisted on doubling down on stupid. Go figure. Also if you're offended by a bit of salty language, you might want to confine yourself to the childrens forums.

.

Oh, I got the message, and this is what I heard: "You're not very smart are ya? Damn it's so simple a commiecrat should be able to understand it."

Your very next post to another USMB Member started out, "Fuck that..."
That's often the only part of the message you speak people hear. Part of political debate is whether you care about the people you are speaking to. Politicians who hate their fellow speakers have lost the most important thing in life. You've chosen a path, but you're stepping off the path instead of staying with objectives that are known to you but obfuscated by your hatchet you should have been using in a different way than aimed at a friend's neck. I was here before you arrived at USMB. I have supported you 100% for 8 years from the very beginning. Nobody can stop you from using profanity when you got a burr under your saddle, but on this website, when hatred goes over the top, it can be minimized.

If you had simply said "I disagree with you because the Constitution says in Article...." you would have had my apology and a change of my opinion. Instead you went for the neck after me supporting you 100% for 8 long years, two of which I had to leave to support a husband who was dying of a blow to the head he received 58 years ago. It was not a pleasant time and resulted in my being a widow. Even so, I continued doing what I could for wounded warriors in my community and many newborns who were born without fathers. I also do what I can to support people with special needs.

You won't have to worry about me answering your unworthwhile profanities again because you will be on my ignore list. Consider it a favor that you won't have to change your heartfelt backstabbings of other posters, regardless of their perspectives.

 

[OKTexas]

If we follow shibboleths

Perhaps you should stop aiding and abetting them. I refuse to fly, not because I'm on any unconstitutional list, but because I refuse to surrender my 4th amendment rights to do so. You don't seem to have any concern for your rights or anyone else. I swore to defend the country against people like you.
.

I have never failed to stop supporting my country, respect the US flag, and cover wounded veterans as part of my life's work. When others forget, I sing patriotic songs of the country even at purely social events. The veterans I know like my renditions of America the Beautiful, This Land is My Land, this land is your land, the National Anthem, My Country Tis of Thee, God Bless America, et al.

It's all I have to give, and I give it cheerfully, sir. I'm sorry you selected me to publicly chew on this week. I'd have preferred to be corrected by you privately, but you preferred to associate me with your F-word list, and I have no choice but to end acknowledging your lies about my patriotism. You've gone way out of your way to humiliate and abuse my love for my country and its pledge, its flag, and it's constituttion, without proving your case. There's only one thing left to say to you. "Good Bye to you and your hatred. Good bye to you and your use of the f word in place of debate."

Poor little thing, if you don't want to be corrected in public, perhaps you should keep your ignorant opinions off a public forum. Songs are meaningless if you don't support the principles behind them.
.

Betray someone by enough bullets through them rather than telling them what is right, and you'll receive what you have earned for yourself.

You were told what's right on page one, yet you insisted on doubling down on stupid. Go figure. Also if you're offended by a bit of salty language, you might want to confine yourself to the childrens forums.

.

Oh, I got the message, and this is what I heard: "You're not very smart are ya? Damn it's so simple a commiecrat should be able to understand it."

Your very next post to another USMB Member started out, "Fuck that..."
That's often the only part of the message you speak people hear. Part of political debate is whether you care about the people you are speaking to. Politicians who hate their fellow speakers have lost the most important thing in life. You've chosen a path, but you're stepping off the path instead of staying with objectives that are known to you but obfuscated by your hatchet you should have been using in a different way than aimed at a friend's neck. I was here before you arrived at USMB. I have supported you 100% for 8 years from the very beginning. Nobody can stop you from using profanity when you got a burr under your saddle, but on this website, when hatred goes over the top, it can be minimized.

If you had simply said "I disagree with you because the Constitution says in Article...." you would have had my apology and a change of my opinion. Instead you went for the neck after me supporting you 100% for 8 long years, two of which I had to leave to support a husband who was dying of a blow to the head he received 58 years ago. It was not a pleasant time and resulted in my being a widow. Even so, I continued doing what I could for wounded warriors in my community and many newborns who were born without fathers. I also do what I can to support people with special needs.

You won't have to worry about me answering your unworthwhile profanities again because you will be on my ignore list. Consider it a favor that you won't have to change your heartfelt backstabbings of other posters, regardless of their perspectives.

Well excuse me child, don't profess to know the Constitution when professing unconstitutional opinions. Also only cowards us ignore, if I somehow wind up on your list, it's your loss not mine. Unlike you, I'll freely admit when I'm wrong, which I'm not on this issue. So run along and hide behind your iggy list.

.

 

[BULLDOG]

Fuck that, let the government prove in front of a judge that a person belongs on the list and get a court order to do so.

.

I thought that was pretty close to what I said.

No, you didn't mention the right of the accused to face their accusers, or call witnesses on their behalf. That's due process.

.

I agree with that but the ratch list is only for "Known or Suspected terrorists." Anyone who feels they shouldn't be on the list can sue for removal.

So, they have to prove their innocence instead of the government having the burden of proving their guilt. And you are ok with that?

No. The government has to prove their guilt or remove them from the list.

Fuck that, let the government prove in front of a judge that a person belongs on the list and get a court order to do so.

.

I thought that was pretty close to what I said.

No, you didn't mention the right of the accused to face their accusers, or call witnesses on their behalf. That's due process.

.

I agree with that but the ratch list is only for "Known or Suspected terrorists." Anyone who feels they shouldn't be on the list can sue for removal.

So, they have to prove their innocence instead of the government having the burden of proving their guilt. And you are ok with that?

No. The government has to prove their guilt or remove them from the list.

Guilty of being suspected?

 

[beautress]

I thought that was pretty close to what I said.

No, you didn't mention the right of the accused to face their accusers, or call witnesses on their behalf. That's due process.

.

I agree with that but the ratch list is only for "Known or Suspected terrorists." Anyone who feels they shouldn't be on the list can sue for removal.

So, they have to prove their innocence instead of the government having the burden of proving their guilt. And you are ok with that?

No. The government has to prove their guilt or remove them from the list.

I thought that was pretty close to what I said.

No, you didn't mention the right of the accused to face their accusers, or call witnesses on their behalf. That's due process.

.

I agree with that but the ratch list is only for "Known or Suspected terrorists." Anyone who feels they shouldn't be on the list can sue for removal.

So, they have to prove their innocence instead of the government having the burden of proving their guilt. And you are ok with that?

No. The government has to prove their guilt or remove them from the list.

Guilty of being suspected?

I'm not certain, BULLDOG, BUT I'm pretty sure there are a million people on the list who should have been put there with notes on their interview or investigations by the FBI who placed them there. If these are non-existent, the government faces as many lawsuits as there are people on the list without proof that they committed suspicious acts of treason against the American people, unless the FBI omitted these studies to protect the innocent from Freedom of Information abuses, people being innocent until proven guilty, that is.

 

[kyzr]

A federal judge ruled Wednesday that an FBI watch list of more than 1 million “known or suspected terrorists” violates the constitutional rights of U.S. citizens in the database. The decision from U.S. District Judge Anthony J. Trenga of the Eastern District of Virginia in favor of 23 Muslim Americans who sued over their inclusion in the Terrorist Screening Database found that the watch list infringes on their constitutional right to due process.

The only reason we haven't had a hit like 9/11 since that time is greatly in part because the public has been informed to look out for suspicious activity that would threaten masses of people like those people in the Twin Towers of New York City that served as the World Trade Center for this country.

Why is a District Judge ruling against the FBI which answers to the Executive Branch of the United States of America? Here it seems to me that we have a Judicial entity trying to remove a Presidential power that assists him with his oath of office to "provide for the common defense."

More here: https://www.washingtonpost.com/nati...or-watch-list-unconstitutional/?noredirect=on

It's important to remember here that presidents, and political agendas change. Having tools like this available to the government is dangerous to the voting public. The only thing that prevents these tools from being turned against YOU; is the will, and prerogative of whomever is in power.

Maybe you haven't been paying attention to the FISA abuses that the FBI just had regarding the Trump campaign, including George Papadope, and Carter Page? Keeping track of terrorists is a necessity, especially after 9/11. I don't want to fly with anyone who might want to blow-up of hijack the plane. So I disagree with your post because:
1. The FBI doesn't need any more help to spy illegally, they do it already
2. We do need high tech ways of tracking potential terrorists, especially after 9/11

My how ones tune will change when the powers that be determine that YOU, and those who believe what you do, ARE the terrorists. Peoples shortsightedness is what will cost us all our freedom...

We disagree. Back in the Clinton admin Janet Reno didn't like the name of "Carnivore" the FBI's new program to "spy" on everyone's email.
Carnivore | software

Can you imagine what the NSA and FBI have today to spy on us? Remember Edward Snowden? He leaked about the telecom surveillance network that the NSA was using, and that was back in 2013.
Edward Snowden - Wikipedia

Imagine forward...to AI surveillance. Ever see the movie "Eagle Eye"? Is that what we have to look forward to?

I'm not worried about terrorist watch lists for non-Americans. I'm worried about what's watching the rest of us.

A substantial number of the people on that list ARE Americans.

.

If they are on that "watch list" there is a reason.
Unless the FBI lied to a judge like the deep state partisan POS, Comey, Strzok, McCabe, and the like.

 

[BULLDOG]

No, you didn't mention the right of the accused to face their accusers, or call witnesses on their behalf. That's due process.

.

I agree with that but the ratch list is only for "Known or Suspected terrorists." Anyone who feels they shouldn't be on the list can sue for removal.

So, they have to prove their innocence instead of the government having the burden of proving their guilt. And you are ok with that?

No. The government has to prove their guilt or remove them from the list.

No, you didn't mention the right of the accused to face their accusers, or call witnesses on their behalf. That's due process.

.

I agree with that but the ratch list is only for "Known or Suspected terrorists." Anyone who feels they shouldn't be on the list can sue for removal.

So, they have to prove their innocence instead of the government having the burden of proving their guilt. And you are ok with that?

No. The government has to prove their guilt or remove them from the list.

Guilty of being suspected?

I'm not certain, BULLDOG, BUT I'm pretty sure there are a million people on the list who should have been put there with notes on their interview or investigations by the FBI who placed them there. If these are non-existent, the government faces as many lawsuits as there are people on the list without proof that they committed suspicious acts of treason against the American people, unless the FBI omitted these studies to protect the innocent from Freedom of Information abuses, people being innocent until proven guilty, that is.

There aren't a million. That's just silly. The list is intended known and suspected terrorists. A known terrorist should be arrested on the spot when found, Being suspected is not a crime, and certainly not something a citizen should have his rights removed for. The more I think about it, the more problems I have with that list existing at all.