The FBI’s terrorism watch list violates the Constitution, federal judge says

[beautress]

It's important to remember here that presidents, and political agendas change. Having tools like this available to the government is dangerous to the voting public. The only thing that prevents these tools from being turned against YOU; is the will, and prerogative of whomever is in power.

Maybe you haven't been paying attention to the FISA abuses that the FBI just had regarding the Trump campaign, including George Papadope, and Carter Page? Keeping track of terrorists is a necessity, especially after 9/11. I don't want to fly with anyone who might want to blow-up of hijack the plane. So I disagree with your post because:
1. The FBI doesn't need any more help to spy illegally, they do it already
2. We do need high tech ways of tracking potential terrorists, especially after 9/11

My how ones tune will change when the powers that be determine that YOU, and those who believe what you do, ARE the terrorists. Peoples shortsightedness is what will cost us all our freedom...

We disagree. Back in the Clinton admin Janet Reno didn't like the name of "Carnivore" the FBI's new program to "spy" on everyone's email.
Carnivore | software

Can you imagine what the NSA and FBI have today to spy on us? Remember Edward Snowden? He leaked about the telecom surveillance network that the NSA was using, and that was back in 2013.
Edward Snowden - Wikipedia

Imagine forward...to AI surveillance. Ever see the movie "Eagle Eye"? Is that what we have to look forward to?

I'm not worried about terrorist watch lists for non-Americans. I'm worried about what's watching the rest of us.

A substantial number of the people on that list ARE Americans.

.

If they are on that "watch list" there is a reason.
Unless the FBI lied to a judge like the deep state partisan POS, Comey, Strzok, McCabe, and the like.

That's what I thought also, but you're right. With all that betrayal of this President by the FBI agents who thought they were obligated to Hillary and Obama for life have caused a lot of discord among friend and foe alike in this country who counted on the FBI agents to do the right thing, since that's what they require of the people they police, which are often so clever they can fool just about everybody, until that one small detail becomes clear in the light of day that they worked against the American people and the country we support and love. I pray that what's ahead will show the majority all of the good people in the FBI did their job of making a case before putting someone on the list. I've heard the bell ringing out in favor of the average agent being good and true agents who make certain they are correct when they turn in a name that needs further investigating when time permits. I pray that it is so.

 

[beautress]

I agree with that but the ratch list is only for "Known or Suspected terrorists." Anyone who feels they shouldn't be on the list can sue for removal.

So, they have to prove their innocence instead of the government having the burden of proving their guilt. And you are ok with that?

No. The government has to prove their guilt or remove them from the list.

I agree with that but the ratch list is only for "Known or Suspected terrorists." Anyone who feels they shouldn't be on the list can sue for removal.

So, they have to prove their innocence instead of the government having the burden of proving their guilt. And you are ok with that?

No. The government has to prove their guilt or remove them from the list.

Guilty of being suspected?

I'm not certain, BULLDOG, BUT I'm pretty sure there are a million people on the list who should have been put there with notes on their interview or investigations by the FBI who placed them there. If these are non-existent, the government faces as many lawsuits as there are people on the list without proof that they committed suspicious acts of treason against the American people, unless the FBI omitted these studies to protect the innocent from Freedom of Information abuses, people being innocent until proven guilty, that is.

There aren't a million. That's just silly. The list is intended known and suspected terrorists. A known terrorist should be arrested on the spot when found, Being suspected is not a crime, and certainly not something a citizen should have his rights removed for. The more I think about it, the more problems I have with that list existing at all.

Aren't a million? I included the link from the Washington Post that claimed 1.2 million were on this list, and here's the quote:

"The ruling could reshape the government’s process for a watch list that has long been criticized for inaccuracy and described by opponents as “a Muslim registry created in the wake of the widespread Islamophobia of the early 2000s.” Trenga ordered both the plaintiffs and defendants to submit arguments about how to fix the constitutional problems with the database, which encompasses nearly 1.2 million people, including about 4,600 U.S. citizens or residents, as of June 2017."​

 

[BULLDOG]

So, they have to prove their innocence instead of the government having the burden of proving their guilt. And you are ok with that?

No. The government has to prove their guilt or remove them from the list.

So, they have to prove their innocence instead of the government having the burden of proving their guilt. And you are ok with that?

No. The government has to prove their guilt or remove them from the list.

Guilty of being suspected?

I'm not certain, BULLDOG, BUT I'm pretty sure there are a million people on the list who should have been put there with notes on their interview or investigations by the FBI who placed them there. If these are non-existent, the government faces as many lawsuits as there are people on the list without proof that they committed suspicious acts of treason against the American people, unless the FBI omitted these studies to protect the innocent from Freedom of Information abuses, people being innocent until proven guilty, that is.

There aren't a million. That's just silly. The list is intended known and suspected terrorists. A known terrorist should be arrested on the spot when found, Being suspected is not a crime, and certainly not something a citizen should have his rights removed for. The more I think about it, the more problems I have with that list existing at all.

Aren't a million? I included the link from the Washington Post that claimed 1.2 million were on this list, and here's the quote:

"The ruling could reshape the government’s process for a watch list that has long been criticized for inaccuracy and described by opponents as “a Muslim registry created in the wake of the widespread Islamophobia of the early 2000s.” Trenga ordered both the plaintiffs and defendants to submit arguments about how to fix the constitutional problems with the database, which encompasses nearly 1.2 million people, including about 4,600 U.S. citizens or residents, as of June 2017."​

I was wrong. Thank you for the correction.

 

[beautress]

1

No. The government has to prove their guilt or remove them from the list.

No. The government has to prove their guilt or remove them from the list.

Guilty of being suspected?

I'm not certain, BULLDOG, BUT I'm pretty sure there are a million people on the list who should have been put there with notes on their interview or investigations by the FBI who placed them there. If these are non-existent, the government faces as many lawsuits as there are people on the list without proof that they committed suspicious acts of treason against the American people, unless the FBI omitted these studies to protect the innocent from Freedom of Information abuses, people being innocent until proven guilty, that is.

There aren't a million. That's just silly. The list is intended known and suspected terrorists. A known terrorist should be arrested on the spot when found, Being suspected is not a crime, and certainly not something a citizen should have his rights removed for. The more I think about it, the more problems I have with that list existing at all.

Aren't a million? I included the link from the Washington Post that claimed 1.2 million were on this list, and here's the quote:

"The ruling could reshape the government’s process for a watch list that has long been criticized for inaccuracy and described by opponents as “a Muslim registry created in the wake of the widespread Islamophobia of the early 2000s.” Trenga ordered both the plaintiffs and defendants to submit arguments about how to fix the constitutional problems with the database, which encompasses nearly 1.2 million people, including about 4,600 U.S. citizens or residents, as of June 2017."​

I was wrong. Thank you for the correction.

I had the same reaction you had when I posted the link. It seemed mighty odd having 1.2 million on the list, and I had to re-read it then and also again today. Someday it will just be a point of trivia in some obscure (or prominent) history book. You're a good American, BULLDOG. We're just on opposite sides, and I don't know about you, but I think a year and a half to 2 years prepping for an election is a mighty long time and does nothing for national caring that followed WWII. My parents home was open to friends, and they had them on both sides of the aisle, and the only time I heard about politics was once when Kruschev was beating a tabletop with his shoe on tv, and the other was when John F. Kennedy was assassinated and there wasn't a dry eye at school or at home when the news broke, Nov. 22, 1963. I heard it in a school vehicle transporting 6 of us cheerleaders to the competitive team's school to encourage friendship by trading cheerleaders to lead cheers at the opponent's school. We were told not to tell of the assassination, so tears streaming down our sad faces, we lead cheerless cheers to a crowd who thought we were dead-pan-faced kids. Their jeers couldn't have been righter, and they announced the President's demise as we were loading our pompoms in the school car going back to our school. I'm sure they figured out why we weren't our usual happy selves later on. My father was a math teacher that year at that school. That was a hard day.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

I had the same reaction you had when I posted the link. It seemed mighty odd having 1.2 million on the list, and I had to re-read it then and also again today.

Do you think that all 1.2 million people on the list have been properly vetted and are a danger?

Do you have enough faith in the government to make sure all 1.2 million of those people have had their due process followed and been given the chance to address the allegations from the Govt that landed them on the list?

 

[Hossfly]

I had the same reaction you had when I posted the link. It seemed mighty odd having 1.2 million on the list, and I had to re-read it then and also again today.

Do you think that all 1.2 million people on the list have been properly vetted and are a danger?

Do you have enough faith in the government to make sure all 1.2 million of those people have had their due process followed and been given the chance to address the allegations from the Govt that landed them on the list?

That's classified.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

I had the same reaction you had when I posted the link. It seemed mighty odd having 1.2 million on the list, and I had to re-read it then and also again today.

Do you think that all 1.2 million people on the list have been properly vetted and are a danger?

Do you have enough faith in the government to make sure all 1.2 million of those people have had their due process followed and been given the chance to address the allegations from the Govt that landed them on the list?

That's classified.

And that is the heart of the problem and why it is unconstitutional on about 4 fronts

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

The decision from U.S. District Judge Anthony J. Trenga of the Eastern District of Virginia in favor of 23 Muslim Americans who sued over their inclusion in the Terrorist Screening Database found that the watch list infringes on their constitutional right to due process. Trenga noted that the list restricts their ability to fly and engage in everyday activities and backed the plaintiffs’ concerns that they were flagged secretly and without a clear methodology.

“There is no evidence, or contention, that any of these plaintiffs satisfy the definition of a ‘known terrorist,’ ” wrote Trenga, adding that even harmless conduct could result in someone being labeled as a “suspected terrorist” on the watch list.

Exactly.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Being put on that list for no other reason than being Muslim, and having no reasonable way to get off of it is an abuse of that list. Keep the list, but be careful to only put people on it that belong there.

The 19 muslims that were immediately connected to 9/11 terrorist attacks were frequently housed and fed by corroborating Mosques with these Jihad warriors and their old-world families. I don't know if this aiding and abetting was innocent or with full knowledge of the grand slam these creeps pulled on 9/11/2001.

9/11/01 against America was a mistake by the Muslim world. Our Presidential Oath of office requires Donald Trump to provide for the common defence. He takes his oath seriously, and I am glad.

Nonsense.

9/11 had nothing to do with the ‘Muslim world.’

Those who participated in the 9/11 attack were solely responsible for their actions – they were in no manner ‘representative’ of Islam or Muslims in general.

It’s this sort of ignorance, bigotry, and hate the judge wisely ruled against.

 

[OKTexas]

It's important to remember here that presidents, and political agendas change. Having tools like this available to the government is dangerous to the voting public. The only thing that prevents these tools from being turned against YOU; is the will, and prerogative of whomever is in power.

Maybe you haven't been paying attention to the FISA abuses that the FBI just had regarding the Trump campaign, including George Papadope, and Carter Page? Keeping track of terrorists is a necessity, especially after 9/11. I don't want to fly with anyone who might want to blow-up of hijack the plane. So I disagree with your post because:
1. The FBI doesn't need any more help to spy illegally, they do it already
2. We do need high tech ways of tracking potential terrorists, especially after 9/11

My how ones tune will change when the powers that be determine that YOU, and those who believe what you do, ARE the terrorists. Peoples shortsightedness is what will cost us all our freedom...

We disagree. Back in the Clinton admin Janet Reno didn't like the name of "Carnivore" the FBI's new program to "spy" on everyone's email.
Carnivore | software

Can you imagine what the NSA and FBI have today to spy on us? Remember Edward Snowden? He leaked about the telecom surveillance network that the NSA was using, and that was back in 2013.
Edward Snowden - Wikipedia

Imagine forward...to AI surveillance. Ever see the movie "Eagle Eye"? Is that what we have to look forward to?

I'm not worried about terrorist watch lists for non-Americans. I'm worried about what's watching the rest of us.

A substantial number of the people on that list ARE Americans.

.

If they are on that "watch list" there is a reason.
Unless the FBI lied to a judge like the deep state partisan POS, Comey, Strzok, McCabe, and the like.

Did you read the link I posted earlier in the thread, 8 ways to get on the do not fly list. You'd be surprised how easy it is to get on the list.

.